It Is About Time - Palm OS 6

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34856.html">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34856.html</a><br /><br />Four years ago it was "who needs 16/32/64MB of RAM," "why would you want to listen to music on your PDA, that is what MP3 players are for" and even "color?!? That is gimmicky." Of course, Palm has slowly been adding these and many more features. As those features have been added, they have been heralded as the best thing since sliced bread as if Palm put a magical section of code in it that makes it right when they release it but anything else earlier wasn't ready for prime time. Oddly enough, as PalmOS devices have gotten color and faster processors, I've not heard a peep out of anyone about battery life that has gone from the legendary "4 to 6 weeks" to 4 to 5 hours on some devices, even though the 6 to 8 of the original iPAQ was considered laughable by them. :roll:<br /><br />The last big hold out, besides a file system that makes RAM and storage cards transparent, is multitasking. Even two to three years ago, I talked to Palm owners that couldn't fathom why you would want to multitask. "This isn't a PC. I just want to do one thing at a time with it." More and more though I've seen Palm fans clamor for the ability to check emails while chatting online, or check on an appointment without having to shut down their browser. Well, PalmOS 6 is out and should bring the versatility multitasking brings that you and I have been enjoying since our first Pocket PC or even Palm-sized PC as early as 1997. What is ironic is PalmSource is being <i>very</i> quiet about it. They have tons of PalmOS 5 devices and even a few PalmOS 4 devices in the market channels and don't want the sales of those to stagnate as users await a new OS.<br /><br />Now we'll have to see how well PalmSource has handled the multitasking experience. Does it have a built in task switcher? Can you really close a task without <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13460">adding third party software</a>? Will it get sluggish at all once 5-6 apps are loaded? I'm sure if it does, we'll never hear about it. :wink:

[sub_tex]

As someone who uses a Palm daily I can say I never understood the sort of Palm user you describe above. It's some sort of blind devotion akin to Mac fanatics. :roll:

I think one of the main reasons multitasking was never a big deal to Palm users before was because with the use of hacks, you could basically get to most of your critical data from inside of any program. And when you closed a Palm app, the next open brought you right where you were, so going from an appointment to memo pad and back was no different than if they were both open at the same time.

This changed when people starting using the net on their Palms though. Check email while I use other Palm apps? Can't do it. Shift that meeting time while x page loads in my web browser? Nope.

That's when it dawned that, hey, multitasking would be a good thing!

Some people are just slow on the uptake. It's taken Palm way too long to bring the OS where it should have been years ago. Oh well.

I'm just glad they finally did it. How well they do it is still to be seen.

[mattchapin]

I have to say I am skeptical about the need for multitasking.

I mean, aside from listening to MP3s while I read my avantgo channels, I can't think of anything I do that requires a program to run in the background while I'm using another program in the foreground.

Can anyone give an example of a situation (other than the above, which I concede) where multitasking is helpful?

-Matt

[Ed@Brighthand]

For years, Palm and Microsoft used very different philosophies when designing their handheld operating systems. Microsoft's was to add in all the features its users wanted, even though the hardware available at the time wasn't up to the challenge. Palm's philosophy was to only provide the features that it felt the hardware could support at the time. This meant no color screens, no multi-tasking, and no multimedia support. Therefore, Pocket PCs were far more functional that Palm OS ones were, but were also larger and had shorter battery lives.

As hardware has gotten better, all Microsoft has had to do was sit back and reap the benefits. Palm (and now PalmSource) is faced with the daunting task of re-writing its OS to add the features it eschewed earlier.

At least the theory was that Palm would only add features when the hardware was ready. As Ed pointed out, the battery lives of both platforms have reached the same level, which I consider unpleasantly short. I wrote an editorial (http://www.brighthand.com/article/What_Can_We_Do_About_Battery_Life) about this a few months ago. (Yes, that's not a great picture of me.)

What's disappointing for us hard-care users is that a recent study (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Study_Shows_7_Percent_of_US_Will_Own_PDA?site=PPC) showed that the majority for handheld users are only interested in the basic functions of a handheld, not the really cool stuff we like so much. So we're faced with the situation of two feature-rich operating systems capable of powering handhelds that rival the features of a laptop, but the best selling handheld of last year was the Palm Zire, which does only slightly more than the original Palm Pilot.

[crass]

I think one of the main reasons multitasking was never a big deal to Palm users before was because with the use of hacks, you could basically get to most of your critical data from inside of any program.
Yeap but this contradicts the alleged "simplicity" of the Palm OS. Not your usual mainstream Palm user would find and use those hacks. Not to mention the system instability.

This changed when people starting using the net on their Palms though. Check email while I use other Palm apps? Can't do it. Shift that meeting time while x page loads in my web browser? Nope.
That's when it dawned that, hey, multitasking would be a good thing!


I was a Palm V user and checked my mail from day one and I guess numerous others did. I always missed multitasking but I was not a blind Palm devotee who would not voice that.

You have valid points but I think Ed's point is very true. "If we can't offer it then you don't need it" is IMHO Palm's moto.

[jinjelsnaps]

What's disappointing for us hard-care users is that a recent study (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Study_Shows_7_Percent_of_US_Will_Own_PDA?site=PPC) showed that the majority for handheld users are only interested in the basic functions of a handheld, not the really cool stuff we like so much. So we're faced with the situation of two feature-rich operating systems capable of powering handhelds that rival the features of a laptop, but the best selling handheld of last year was the Palm Zire, which does only slightly more than the original Palm Pilot.

I used to think I was a high-end user, but experiences with multiple iPaqs, Axims and Palm devices has taught me that I really only want to do simple things with my "PDA." The only "high end" thing I'd like to do is play MP3s...which is exactly why I'm anxiously waiting the Motorola MPx220 that's coming to T-Mobile. Windows Mobile OS, sync's with my PC via USB (oh how I despise you, Bluetooth, bane of my existance) and has an SDIO slot so I can bring some MP3s on the road with me. Everything I could possibly want...all in ONE device.

What is the general opinion of smartphones here? Advantages, disadvantages? Just curious...

[ucfgrad93]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34856.html

Four years ago it was "who needs 16/32/64MB of RAM," "why would you want to listen to music on your PDA, that is what MP3 players are for" and even "color?!? That is gimmicky." Of course, Palm has slowly been adding these and many more features.

On the other hand, without Palm Vx (and others) would there be a PPC that is the size of the hp1900 series? Would there be affordable (ie. less than $500) PPCs? I doubt it.

Face it, both platforms are slowly converging. Each is trying to incorporate the strengths of the other platform. Without the competition we would still have 8MB mono AA battery powered Palms and brick-sized $600 PPCs.

[cyclwestks]

I guess I'd have to say multi-tasking is one thing that kept me coming back to PPC. I can take inventory & switch back & forth between Calc98 & the Handbase Db. I can workout while playing mp3's, keep track of the routine with the fitness software, & time rest periods with the timer; being able to switch back & forth as necessary. I'm sure if I thought more before I posted, these are just trivial, but they mean a lot to me.

[heyya]

>I mean, aside from listening to MP3s while I read my avantgo channels, >I can't think of anything I do that requires a program to run in the >background while I'm using another program in the foreground.

I use both a ppc and tungsten and here's something I use often without much thought on ppc but cannot with the palm. When using yahoo's webmail and in the middle of composing a message, if I forgot somebody's email address or want to copy a quote, I can always easily switch back/forth to the other apps and copy&paste. On the tungsten, switching out of the web browser would clear out the page.

I really like the form factor of the tungsten but this always bothered me.

[Ed Hansberry]

I mean, aside from listening to MP3s while I read my avantgo channels, I can't think of anything I do that requires a program to run in the background while I'm using another program in the foreground.

Can anyone give an example of a situation (other than the above, which I concede) where multitasking is helpful?
Real world example. You get an email from someone and it has their contact info at the bottom - 4-5 lines of it including their address and phone/fax number.

On a PPC, you can switch back and forth from the open email and open contact copying and pasting data in. On the Palm, you'd close the contact out each time you "switched" to the inbox app. I'm not sure if the email would also close and take you back to the message listing.

[fletch]

What is the general opinion of smartphones here? Advantages, disadvantages? Just curious...

Cool point... I'm thinking that smartphone could "move-in" on the territory that Palm no longer covers - ie the very basic PIM stuff. That would be an enormous coup d'gras for ms!

Although, on second thoughts no touchscreen/stylus on smartphone might limit people taking up that platform.

[Ed Hansberry]

For years, Palm and Microsoft used very different philosophies when designing their handheld operating systems. Microsoft's was to add in all the features its users wanted, even though the hardware available at the time wasn't up to the challenge. Palm's philosophy was to only provide the features that it felt the hardware could support at the time. This meant no color screens, no multi-tasking, and no multimedia support. Therefore, Pocket PCs were far more functional that Palm OS ones were, but were also larger and had shorter battery lives.
That was true until about 2000. THen the iPAQ 3600 came out. The one thing that at that time really drew fire from Palm was the battery life. They said it had 6-8 hrs of battery life while the then Palm V had 4-6 weeks. :roll: Now, the V did have 20 hrs compared to the iPAQ when you measured them the same way, and that was a valid point. It could mean the difference between taking a charger on a 3 day business trip.

Even in size, the iPAQ was quite competitive. Compare it to any Handspring of the day and early Sony's. ANd look at the 4100. It is smaller in many dimensions than the now defunct M500 and Palm V but single-handedly more funcitonal than any PalmOS device and cheaper than some of them too.

However, now it is 2004 and 6-8 hrs is still the norm for most PDAs, PalmOS or Pocket PC. Nothing else is new, it is all just cheaper and smaller. So from 2000 to 2004, Palm has been saying "you don't need it until we give it to you" and has been scrambling to give it to users. Hardware was not the excuse. It was the 1996 OS. Sony is proof of that. They worked around the OS limits with their own stuff, even including a DSP to give you multitasking music.

When OS6 devices ship, they will have one thing over Pocket PC 2003 - screen size, but it is common knowledge that MS is already working on that. :D No clue on release dates, but given all the talk inthe latter half of 2003 at developer conferences, it wouldn't surprise me if it shipped in 2004.

[Doug Raeburn]

On the other hand, without Palm Vx (and others) would there be a PPC that is the size of the hp1900 series? Would there be affordable (ie. less than $500) PPCs? I doubt it.

Face it, both platforms are slowly converging. Each is trying to incorporate the strengths of the other platform. Without the competition we would still have 8MB mono AA battery powered Palms and brick-sized $600 PPCs.

I agree that the competition has influenced these factors to some degree, but the price reductions and size reductions of Pocket PCs have also been a factor of things like smaller, more efficient batteries, more efficient processors, cheaper memory, etc. For example, when the brick-like Cassiopeias were designed several years ago, given the desired state-of-the-art capabilities and also given the state and price of the technology available then, I doubt that they could have done much better pricewise or sizewise even if they had wanted to. At the same time, more basic Pocket PCs like the monochrome iPAQ 3135 were much cheaper, smaller and lighter than their more full featured color brandmates.

With all technology, features become more affordable over time, thus we have $199 iPAQs with capabilities comparable or superior to $700 Pocket PCs just 2 or 3 years ago. With portable devices of any kind (PDAs, cell phones, MP3 players, laptop computers), they naturally trend towards more portable. So we have 4 oz. iPAQs. Pocket PCs are trending smaller and cheaper, just like most other high-tech devices.

While the competition from Palm may have provided an incentive for Pocket PC manufacturers to go the "smaller and cheaper" route more quickly, I still think they would have gotten there eventually anyway.

[Macguy59]

What's disappointing for us hard-care users is that a recent study (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Study_Shows_7_Percent_of_US_Will_Own_PDA?site=PPC) showed that the majority for handheld users are only interested in the basic functions of a handheld, not the really cool stuff we like so much. So we're faced with the situation of two feature-rich operating systems capable of powering handhelds that rival the features of a laptop, but the best selling handheld of last year was the Palm Zire, which does only slightly more than the original Palm Pilot.

I used to think I was a high-end user, but experiences with multiple iPaqs, Axims and Palm devices has taught me that I really only want to do simple things with my "PDA." The only "high end" thing I'd like to do is play MP3s...which is exactly why I'm anxiously waiting the Motorola MPx220 that's coming to T-Mobile. Windows Mobile OS, sync's with my PC via USB (oh how I despise you, Bluetooth, bane of my existance) and has an SDIO slot so I can bring some MP3s on the road with me. Everything I could possibly want...all in ONE device.

What is the general opinion of smartphones here? Advantages, disadvantages? Just curious...

Having owned a Samsung i600 MS Smartphone since November I can tell you it is not a replacement for a PPC or even a Palm 5 device. As more software is written for the platform more users will see this as a viable alternative. My reason for buying one was to reduce the number of gadgets I lug with me every day. I have gone back to carrying the i600 and an iPaq 1945 until such time more software is written/ported to it.

[bjornkeizers]

I've been a Palm user since '96 and i've owned CE devices, and I was an early adopter of the PPC [Ipaq 3630!]

I buy on average two new PDA's per year: one PPC and one Palm. I know in my heart that my PPC is better, both in features and value, but I just can't help myself: I truly love Palm and I can't bring myself to completely ditch the platform.

In fact, I bought a new Palm yesterday: the Tungsten|E. It has 32 mb of RAM and a 126 mhz processor. It can't multitask, and the best game it can run is hi-res Bejeweled or Liberty - Quake? No way in hell.

And I paid more for it then I paid for my Ipaq 1915: 219 euros. Why? Well, god only knows.

I fear Palm won't be around much longer the way things are going. I buy the new one because of brand loyalty, but honestly, if I look at what my new Tungsten|E can do, and compare it with my Ipaq, I find the Tungsten|E wanting. Honestly, it's just not much of an upgrade from say.. my IIIc or M130. Unless Palm completely reinvents the PDA form factor and feature set, they won't be around for much longer.

[hopbot]

there are some great points here. one of the things that stand out the most is that even though products like the zire and other low-end palms don't do much more than the original palm pilot did, they are best sellers. i think it really comes down to the fact that a majority of people are not us - tech saavy people that know what multitasknig even means as it concerns these devices - and in the end they shouldn't care what the technology is (and most of them don't) they just want something simple that works.

currently, my pda of choice is an ipaq 2215. i have several palm-based pda's and my ipaq is still my favorite because i consider a few features that right now are not available on the palm, mainly, a superb paint program like pocket artist. but whenever someone asks me for a recomendation as to what type of pda they should buy, for most i suggest a palm because its simpler and does what most people want.

want to play mp3's in the background while you write, get a clie. want to check mail on the go, get a treo. games? get a zodiac. a majority of people out there are really satisifed with the most basic PIM functions of a PDA and palm makes them easy. while the windows mobile is not that much more comlex, its percieved as more complex and that scares people. they don't want to know about technology in their pocket, they want to know when their next meeting is.

i think the next year or two will really be interesting because as the palm os becomes more technologically complex (multi-tasking, better graphics, speed, etc) windows mobile will continue to refine its interface so that it s simpler in perception - then it will be harder to recommend one over the other ;)

[thenikjones]

I've been a Palm user since '96 and i've owned CE devices, and I was an early adopter of the PPC [Ipaq 3630!]

I buy on average two new PDA's per year: one PPC and one Palm. I know in my heart that my PPC is better, both in features and value, but I just can't help myself: I truly love Palm and I can't bring myself to completely ditch the platform.

In fact, I bought a new Palm yesterday: the Tungsten|E. It has 32 mb of RAM and a 126 mhz processor. It can't multitask, and the best game it can run is hi-res Bejeweled or Liberty - Quake? No way in hell.

And I paid more for it then I paid for my Ipaq 1915: 219 euros. Why? Well, god only knows.


I fear Palm won't be around much longer the way things are going. I buy the new one because of brand loyalty, but honestly, if I look at what my new Tungsten|E can do, and compare it with my Ipaq, I find the Tungsten|E wanting. Honestly, it's just not much of an upgrade from say.. my IIIc or M130. Unless Palm completely reinvents the PDA form factor and feature set, they won't be around for much longer.

I switched from Jornada568 to Tungsten|E as I wanted a thin PDA with decent synching to Outlook Contacts (which Palm can FINALLY do - about time). The inclusion of DocstoGo6 is a MAJOR bonus, much better than Pocket Excel and Word which is a major bonus for me. It is also cheap - in the UK, the T|E is 140ukp and the cheapest thin HP (1910?) is about 200ukp inc VAT. I think it's a bargain. The lack of multitasking is not something I notice. When the SPV has an editable spreadsheet, I may switch, but I'm good for the next few months!

[cuteseal]

Just taking a look in the other direction:

I'm a returning pocketpc junkie - I now own a ipaq 4150, and used to own a Jornada 545, but had a 3 year sojourn in the middle (tried my luck with a psion revo and a palm vx). :?

I was surprised though how little the OS has changed in terms of functionality and appearance. After 2 major OS revisions (Windows CE3 -> OS 2002 -> WM 2003) I would have thought that there would have been significant leaps ahead in terms of the OS. (Take for example Windows CE3 vs Windows CE2).

Sure enough there have been some tweaks and "improvements" - themes, notification icons in the title bar, bluetooth manager, zero-configuration wifi - oh wait, cancel that last one as a improvement... :evil:

But at the end of the day, activesync still looks the same, data input is still the same, the OS still looks the same, the start menu/programs is still the same, the screen size is still the original 240x320... I was surprised had how little things have changed.

After 3 years, I would have that the "next generation" pocket pc would have had me shocked and awed... but hey, maybe it was perfect to begin with??? :mrgreen:

[ctmagnus]

It Is About Time - Palm OS 6

So Palm OS 6 is just a glorified timekeeper?

;)

[Cortex]

I have to say I am skeptical about the need for multitasking.

I mean, aside from listening to MP3s while I read my avantgo channels, I can't think of anything I do that requires a program to run in the background while I'm using another program in the foreground.

Can anyone give an example of a situation (other than the above, which I concede) where multitasking is helpful?

-Matt

wait until your first pocket pc phone! i multitask constantly.

[Hau Wei]

It Is About Time - Palm OS 6

So Palm OS 6 is just a glorified timekeeper?

;)

Ouch...direct and sweet. :lol:

I've always been fond of Palm, thought they were the ultimate in PDAs...but that was in the mid 90s, there weren't any other PDAs to begin with.

Then WinCE 2.0 came along and swept me off my feet. True it has really bad battery life and it's as buggy as my Windows 95...heck it looks JUST like my Windows 95! Played with a friend's Cassiopeia and I said I wanted one.

A year down the road I bought the iPAQ 3630 when it first came out and there was no turning back since. I LOVE MY POCKETPC! :lol:

Then I bought my first love, a used Palm Vx for nostalgia's sake and found out that wow...Palm has been missing a lot! Granted, it's a really old unit and it doesn't do the new ones justice, but still, I really couldn't stand the idea of not being able to multi-task.

Now my recommendation goes like this if anyone asks me what PDA to get themselves... "If you just want to use your PDA as a calendar and address book, get a Palm. If you think you are a power user, get a Pocket PC."

Well, it's great to see Palm catching up and eventually, there wouldn't be any more of those idiotic points like "who needs multitasking", "Palms have better battery life", "who needs colour screens?" etc. in the eternal debate of PPC vs. Palm. :roll:

Cheers and long live the Pocket PC! 8)

[macaroni]

LOL... I've been a pocketpc user since the first Ipaq, actually got one of the first shipments when they were selling for megabucks on ebay, in fact sold an extra I had to a company wanting to do speech reco software for them and paid for my initial ipaq, but I digress.

There are certainly advantages to PocketPC, but there is still room in this world for Palm. I've actually just made the switch to Palm, although I did so skeptically. I wanted a pda phone, but I didn't want to ahve to carry around something the size of the pocketpc phones all the time. I also wanted a keyboard. I could have went with the 4355 and a bluetooth phone, but there is no TMobile in NC and Sprints lone bluetooth phone doesn't have unlimited Internet at an affordable price. So, I went to the Treo 600.

AFter three days with this device, you can say what you will about Palm, but this thing is a keeper for me. The browser certainly beats out the standard PocketIE and so far I've found nothing the pocketpc can do that I can't do on the treo with the exception of the multi-tasking. However, I can listen to MP3's and do anthing else I want. Most apps do save their places as well. IT's a minor nuisance compared to all I got in the trade off.

So, long story short, both platforms have their place. It just drives me nuts when you see the Palm people exagerate things about the PPC and the PPC people exagerate things about the Palm...

[bjornkeizers]

The inclusion of DocstoGo6 is a MAJOR bonus, much better than Pocket Excel and Word which is a major bonus for me.


Well, that's a matter of opinion. I've used docstogo with a few palms, and it's just not practical: you had to convert documents and put them in a special folder and then hotsync them. Is that still the way it works?

On my PPC, I don't need any extra software. If I have an Excel file or Word file on my laptop, I just beam it over to my PPC or put it on an SD card. I don't need special software for it, and I can beam back and forth as much as I like.

For a platform that claims to be "easy to use" palm does require a lot of effort and third-party apps to be as useful as my PPC is out of the box.


It is also cheap - in the UK, the T|E is 140ukp and the cheapest thin HP (1910?) is about 200ukp inc VAT. I think it's a bargain.


Compared to a Tungsten 3 it is a bargain yes. Compared to a PPC.. well, it isn't. Both cost about the same in most market, so let's compare:

Tungsten has 32 mb memory, 28 useable. A 126 mhz processor and runs what is basically the same OS as three years ago with some minor tweaks. If anything, it's worse because apparently I can't run Hacks on it.

My Ipaq OTOH, has 64 mb memory, a 200 mhz processor, it is easier to use, and far more capable then my new Tungsten - even out of the box. It can do things my Tungsten could never do: like run Quake or play Flash movies. My Tungsten won't be emulating things like a Game Gear, SNES, NES, GameBoy, Apple II etc.. well, it could handle one or two, but Palm emulators are either shareware at $25, or totally suck.

[Ed Hansberry]

So, long story short, both platforms have their place. It just drives me nuts when you see the Palm people exagerate things about the PPC and the PPC people exagerate things about the Palm...
No no no. We never exaggerate. ;-) :rotfl:

[Zensbikeshop]

The inclusion of DocstoGo6 is a MAJOR bonus, much better than Pocket Excel and Word which is a major bonus for me.


Well, that's a matter of opinion. I've used docstogo with a few palms, and it's just not practical: you had to convert documents and put them in a special folder and then hotsync them. Is that still the way it works?

On my PPC, I don't need any extra software. If I have an Excel file or Word file on my laptop, I just beam it over to my PPC or put it on an SD card. I don't need special software for it, and I can beam back and forth as much as I like.

For a platform that claims to be "easy to use" palm does require a lot of effort and third-party apps to be as useful as my PPC is out of the box.

Nope! Docs2Go is in ROM on my T3 so isn't extra software. It uses native Office file formats from any directory on my PC and does a MUCH better job with Office docs than Pocket Word, Pocket Excel and Pocket Powerpoint - oh wait sorry there is no Pocket Powerpoint :wink:

The only piece of 3rd party software i had to add to be able to do what my 2210 did was a backup app and then it's debatable whether I need that because of the way HotSync works.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a Palm zealot; I've owned both Palms and Pocket PCs and of course several Psions. I'll move between the platforms depending upon what suits my needs.

I think this year could be interesting... Palm OS 6 devices are released, PPCs with high res screens and the Smartphone continues to develop.

Right now I see myself in six months with a Motorola MPx220 as my phone and a nice new Palm OS 6 device or WM2004 PPC.

Can't wait!

[Zensbikeshop]

So, long story short, both platforms have their place. It just drives me nuts when you see the Palm people exagerate things about the PPC and the PPC people exagerate things about the Palm...
No no no. We never exaggerate. ;-) :rotfl:

Ha ha ha!

I'd love to watch a 'conversation' between Ed "PPC" Hansberry and Mike "Palm Nutter" Cane!

:twak: :bangin:

That would be entertaining :wink:

[k_kirk]

This indeed an interesting thread. I love my XDA2 to the end of the world and have been a 'convert' since the very first iPaq's hit the street. Just for fun I bought a Palm product the other day. Actually my first since the PalmV. They now make & sell one mean stylus/pen combo which also has a led flashlight & laserpointer in it. Ironic isn't it. Maybe they should have bought the name rights to "Pilot" after all....

But, still can't help feeling annoyed every day...

When can I expect to have PPC reload my contacts with the last category that I looked at?
When can my multi-tasking XDA2 run more than one application at a time? ;-)
When will I not need to carry an alarm clock when I travel and be able to rely on my PPC to wake me up?
When will I not have to buy add-ons to give me proper PIM capability?
When will I have PPC capabilities & PalmOS robustness?
When will PPC shareware prices go down to PalmOS shareware level?
When...

[Bill Gunn]

After 3 years, I would have that the "next generation" pocket pc would have had me shocked and awed... but hey, maybe it was perfect to begin with??? :mrgreen:

I have been using/programming PPC's for seven years and I agree completely with what you are saying. For instance, I can't believe how little ActiveSync has improved in this time while Palm HotSync has been rock solid for all seven years.

[Ed Hansberry]

I'd love to watch a 'conversation' between Ed "PPC" Hansberry and Mike "Palm Nutter" Cane!
THe problem is that tends to be me bringing up good points and him getting twinkie sputum on his keyboard. :lol:

[wmtop]

My 2-cents. Started out as a "Palmie" on a IIIxe and in less than a month, I had my wife (an RN) using one to great effect!

I took the PPC plunge with the Dell Axim. As an IT professional, I needed the connectivity and flexibility of PPC2002 afforded for remote support. Let's face it, the X5 is a brick by today's standards. But, it beats a laptop by 6+ lbs. :wink: PALM OS4 was not cutting it.

As a PIM, Palm won. The "care & feeding" (i.e. re-charging, sync-ing, et. al.) was less than 5% of the effort. As an IT-tool and media player, WM2003 can't be beat. However, the PPC "care & feeding" effort is much higher.

I upgraded my wife to a Zire-71 and it's perfect for her! The PPC gives me the tools I need.

Bottom line - Right tool for the right job!!!! So many observations are spot on. Zire is wildly popular because it does it's job for a fair value. PPC rocks for the "tech-savvy" It's no surprise those that want the best of both worlds have Palm & PPC devices.

I'm not sure this is competition. Is it really convergence or just objective-creep? If Palm does not navigate this transition well, they're apt to sacrifice their core in favor of a fickle market. It's a fact - satisfied customers (on both sides of the fence) don't complain!

[sub_tex]

...it's just not practical: you had to convert documents and put them in a special folder and then hotsync them. Is that still the way it works?

I've never owned a PPC, but I have used a Jornada 720 for a bit and one thing that killed me about the whole Active Sync was you had to move files into some "Jornada Files" folder for them to synch. What use is that?

Is PPC dependant on a specific folder? PPC uses the My Documents folder a lot right? I never use that folder at all on my PC. :|

Why can't either OS be as simple and nice as my Psion Series 5 is? :D

[Fishie]

...it's just not practical: you had to convert documents and put them in a special folder and then hotsync them. Is that still the way it works?

I've never owned a PPC, but I have used a Jornada 720 for a bit and one thing that killed me about the whole Active Sync was you had to move files into some "Jornada Files" folder for them to synch. What use is that?

Is PPC dependant on a specific folder? PPC uses the My Documents folder a lot right? I never use that folder at all on my PC. :|

Why can't either OS be as simple and nice as my Psion Series 5 is? :D


Urm, you can just drag and drop you know.

The my folders thing is only for stuff that gets synchronised every time.

[bjornkeizers]

Nope! Docs2Go is in ROM on my T3 so isn't extra software. It uses native Office file formats from any directory on my PC and does a MUCH better job with Office docs than Pocket Word, Pocket Excel and Pocket Powerpoint - oh wait sorry there is no Pocket Powerpoint :wink:


I'll have to try it out then. It comes on the CD with my T|E. If it can read files from my card without the need for conversion, I'm happy.

[Zensbikeshop]

I'd love to watch a 'conversation' between Ed "PPC" Hansberry and Mike "Palm Nutter" Cane!
THe problem is that tends to be me bringing up good points and him getting twinkie sputum on his keyboard. :lol:

LOL :rofl:

Twinkie sputum.. I gotta remember that!

[thenikjones]

The inclusion of DocstoGo6 is a MAJOR bonus, much better than Pocket Excel and Word which is a major bonus for me.


Well, that's a matter of opinion. I've used docstogo with a few palms, and it's just not practical: you had to convert documents and put them in a special folder and then hotsync them. Is that still the way it works?

On my PPC, I don't need any extra software. If I have an Excel file or Word file on my laptop, I just beam it over to my PPC or put it on an SD card. I don't need special software for it, and I can beam back and forth as much as I like.

For a platform that claims to be "easy to use" palm does require a lot of effort and third-party apps to be as useful as my PPC is out of the box.


On the Palm, you can synch to any folder on your PC. PocketPC requires everything to be synched to be in the single designated folder. DtG6 also opens/saves files in Excel and Word format, although slower and loses formatting. Palm catches up with PocketPC!




It is also cheap - in the UK, the T|E is 140ukp and the cheapest thin HP (1910?) is about 200ukp inc VAT. I think it's a bargain.


Compared to a Tungsten 3 it is a bargain yes. Compared to a PPC.. well, it isn't. Both cost about the same in most market, so let's compare:

Tungsten has 32 mb memory, 28 useable. A 126 mhz processor and runs what is basically the same OS as three years ago with some minor tweaks. If anything, it's worse because apparently I can't run Hacks on it.

My Ipaq OTOH, has 64 mb memory, a 200 mhz processor, it is easier to use, and far more capable then my new Tungsten - even out of the box. It can do things my Tungsten could never do: like run Quake or play Flash movies. My Tungsten won't be emulating things like a Game Gear, SNES, NES, GameBoy, Apple II etc.. well, it could handle one or two, but Palm emulators are either shareware at $25, or totally suck.

I did compare - the Tungsten|E does a similar job to an HP1910 and is cheaper. Yes, the HP1910 multitasks but apart from listening to MP3s whilst using other programs, this is something I never really took advantage of about 4 years of PPC use (Jornada 545, then 568).

[theone3]

Hurmph..

Well excuse technology for advancing..


Palm's philosophy has always been about small, fast and simple devices while PocketPC has always been about the latest and greatest.

They're simply different approaches to technology.

Palm's primary concern is the PDA being an appliance. Non-obtrusive, cheap and simple. They've discovered that it's possible to have a non-obtrusive device with MP3 players, Colour screens and multi-tasking. Equally, Pocketpc users have discovered that the latest technology does not have to be non-obtrusive. (possibly the funniest part of this is both partys believe that they took the "right" path.. All roads lead to Rome ;))

Grow up guys.

[Doug Raeburn]

I'm not sure this is competition. Is it really convergence or just objective-creep? If Palm does not navigate this transition well, they're apt to sacrifice their core in favor of a fickle market. It's a fact - satisfied customers (on both sides of the fence) don't complain!

Good points. Something else to point out is that Palm has a bit more at stake as they forge out into the higher tech, "latest and greatest" market. While it's true that they can always fall back on their core "small, fast and simple" market, they don't want to have to settle for that market. One of the biggest differences between the two market segments is that the "latest and greatest" segment is always on the lookout for the next "latest and greatest" device, so they're inclined to upgrade more frequently. On the Palm "simple" side, the basic units end up with a lot less to differentiate them. And the buyers in that market segment are inclined to treat the devices more like appliances... they buy one and use it for years and years, with no thought of upgrading. I still see quite a few Palm III units being carried around after all these years...

It's not that Palm no longer wants that business, but they recognize that segment as being inherently self-limiting, and they want a piece of the more lucrative high end market and the more frequent upgrades that come along with it.