Dell Adds Bluetooth to Axim X3 [Archive]

Jason Dunn

01-14-2004, 08:04 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114312,00.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pcworld.com/news/article...d,114312,00.asp</a><br /><br /></div>"The U.S. Federal Communications Commission has approved for sale in the U.S. an Axim X3 personal digital assistant from Dell with both a Bluetooth and an 802.11b chip, according to documents posted on the FCC Web site. Adding a Bluetooth PDA to its lineup would fill a hole for Dell, which thus far has not released an Axim with that feature. Bluetooth is a short-range wireless networking technology that is used to connect mobile devices, such as PDAs and cell phones, or accessories such as headsets."<br /><br />So it looks like the X3i will go head to head with the 4150 and other dual-mode devices from HP. The more competition, the better it is for consumers!

Jonathon Watkins

01-14-2004, 08:10 PM

Nice. Very usefull and keeps that SD slot free for storage.

Any word on the X7 - i.e. when, what etc?

possmann

01-14-2004, 08:14 PM

I like it!

How does everyone else like their X3 devices? I almost got one, but took advantage of HP's $50 back on the 1935 instead...

dorelse

01-14-2004, 08:23 PM

Do we have a ETA on its arrival? I was leaning towards a 4155 but with the (expected) price difference the Dell may just have the edge.

normaldude

01-14-2004, 08:30 PM

Awesome. Combined with a X3 flip cover from thepocketsolution.com, I can finally have a small PDA w/bluetooth and w/flip cover.
http://www.thepocketsolution.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PSI-601

Anyone know when Dell will start offering this? I checked the Dell website, and the Bluetooth X3 wasn't there yet.

johncruise

01-14-2004, 08:58 PM

Put a USB host port and a CF slot (along with the SD slot) then they got a sale here! :D

huangzhinong

01-14-2004, 10:10 PM

After 4 years 240*320 resolution, PPC is really boring now. Even add bluetooth in x3i, I still don't think it will be a good sale.

Hope PPC2004 devices come in earlier.

burtman007

01-14-2004, 10:15 PM

My co-worker JUST got an X3i TODAY, and then this story comes out. He's on quite a nice rant right now!!!

SeanH

01-14-2004, 10:19 PM

After 4 years 240*320 resolution, PPC is really boring now. Even add bluetooth in x3i, I still don't think it will be a good sale.

Hope PPC2004 devices come in earlier.
I agree. We need to see more devices that run at 480x640. I predict every PDA over $300 will ship with BT and WiFi. Buying a PDA with out BT is like buying a desktop with out USB in the year 2004.

Sean

burtman007

01-14-2004, 11:07 PM

Buying a PDA with out BT is like buying a desktop with out USB in the year 2004.

Sean

That's a little far out there. Maybe like buying a desktop without USB in the year 1999. You can live without it, but it's damn cool to have. :)

David Prahl

01-14-2004, 11:25 PM

8O 8O 8O :jawdrop:

No fair! I'm almost done with my review of the X3i! :cry:

AZMark

01-14-2004, 11:38 PM

Amazing since they still haven't got the X5 and the Dell Bluetooth card working fully.

Vincent M Ferrari

01-15-2004, 12:00 AM

Probably has something to do with the fact that the Dell BT card isn't made by Dell, it's made by Phillips... That's the problem with rebranding...

daS

01-15-2004, 12:52 AM

Probably has something to do with the fact that the Dell BT card isn't made by Dell, it's made by Phillips... That's the problem with rebranding...
Actually nothing that Dell "makes" is made by Dell with the exception of configuring desktop PCs from parts. They get all their laptops, PPCs, printers, monitors and accessories from other companies.

jbachandouris

01-15-2004, 01:21 AM

I was almost going to buy the 3Xi since its only $311 until tomorrow, but now I'm not sure. Honestly, I don't think I need bluetooth-Verizon won't include them in their phones-and not sure when I could afford GPS(using Bluetooth or not).

I really like the form factor of the 4155, but too much $$$. Besides, I hear the 3Xi's screen is brighter?

maximus

01-15-2004, 01:50 AM

Such a small device, with both bluetooth and wifi ? wonder how they do that.

Shrink

01-15-2004, 02:07 AM

Wouldn't it be cool if BT could be enabled in existing X3i's by a bios update? :idea:

daS

01-15-2004, 02:14 AM

Such a small device, with both bluetooth and wifi ? wonder how they do that.
With the new chipsets from TI.

In the old days (that's last year :wink: ) it was harder to get Wi-Fi and Bluetooth to co-exist in the same device because they use the same frequency band. If the anntenas for each were at least 10cm appart then they could use "adaptive frequency hopping" to avoid each other. But in the same device, the radios were too close and it was like a dog chasing its own tail.

TI's new chipsets allow the two radios to talk to each other before the signals are transmitted to work out a hop pattern for Bluetooth that won't step on the Wi-Fi signals. Then everybody's happy. :D

Mitch D

01-15-2004, 04:38 AM

Never fails, I decide to buy and then they add more toys...

tsb_hcy

01-15-2004, 04:51 AM

Good, I hope Dell rapes HP's sales and forces HP to make a real PPC with dual slots, a 4-5" VGA screen, 128 MB of RAM, 64 MB of flash ROM and dual wireless. :devilboy:

maximus

01-15-2004, 05:04 AM

With the new chipsets from TI.

In the old days (that's last year :wink: ) it was harder to get Wi-Fi and Bluetooth to co-exist in the same device because they use the same frequency band. If the anntenas for each were at least 10cm appart then they could use "adaptive frequency hopping" to avoid each other. But in the same device, the radios were too close and it was like a dog chasing its own tail.

TI's new chipsets allow the two radios to talk to each other before the signals are transmitted to work out a hop pattern for Bluetooth that won't step on the Wi-Fi signals. Then everybody's happy. :D

Great. How about adding the third radio, namely the GPRS radio ? :D
Slap it in to create a super PPC .. with CF slot, of course.

daS

01-15-2004, 05:18 AM

Great. How about adding the third radio, namely the GPRS radio ? :D
Slap it in to create a super PPC .. with CF slot, of course.
Well TI did that, but with SD not CF. See the article I wrote back in March of last year here (http://www.bluetoothnews.com/industrynews/TI_Wanda.htm). Now we just need to see some company take TI up on their offer.

hopeful797

01-15-2004, 05:50 AM

why will people buy this when they can buy the 4155 for $399 free shipped no tax from online stores and the x3i without bluetooth already goes for $379. even if discounted down to 360 or 370 with bluetooth from, say, a $399 price point, its much larger than the 4155 and its not clear to me it has any obvious advantages.

am i missing something here?

JPack

01-15-2004, 05:52 AM

In the old days (that's last year :wink: ) it was harder to get Wi-Fi and Bluetooth to co-exist in the same device because they use the same frequency band. If the anntenas for each were at least 10cm appart then they could use "adaptive frequency hopping" to avoid each other. But in the same device, the radios were too close and it was like a dog chasing its own tail.

TI's new chipsets allow the two radios to talk to each other before the signals are transmitted to work out a hop pattern for Bluetooth that won't step on the Wi-Fi signals. Then everybody's happy. :D
The strange thing is, it appears Dell didn't use a coexistence solution for this new Axim. Turning one form of wireless disables the other.

ctmagnus

01-15-2004, 06:08 AM

Turning one form of wireless disables the other.

:duh:* Having both on at the same time is quite handy imo. For example, when the computer that has my bt dongle plugged into it gets rebooted for whatever reason and consequently I can't connect to the net via bt anymore, I turn on wifi and connect to that computer via Pocket VNC. Then I try to connect via bt again, and click the appropriate options in the ballons for the bt connection on the desktop, and I am able to connect via the much more battery-efficient bt again. Until somebody reboots that PC again, that is.

*I saw a much better emoticon for this, in this case, somewhere. It had the hand doing the cuckoo gesture and all that.

maximus

01-15-2004, 07:41 AM

The strange thing is, it appears Dell didn't use a coexistence solution for this new Axim. Turning one form of wireless disables the other.

Power conservation ?

Philip Colmer

01-15-2004, 11:19 AM

Do we have a ETA on its arrival? I was leaning towards a 4155 but with the (expected) price difference the Dell may just have the edge.
Real Soon Now :D

I've been (im)patiently waiting for this one to come available after being told about it under NDA. It has been difficult to make the choice between this and other Pocket PCs (particularly since my iPAQ gives me about 30 minutes of battery life at the moment) but, given my experience with Comapq's poor post-sales support of my iPAQ and Dell's good post-sales support of the other hardware that we buy from them, I'm happy to get a three year support deal on it.

The uplift on the price isn't going to be too bad either, from what I can gather, although I haven't been given any hard information on that.

--Philip

jbachandouris

01-15-2004, 11:26 AM

jbachandouris

01-15-2004, 11:28 AM

BTW the 3Xi is not $379, Dell dropped the price to $349. Its 10% off until the end of today ($311).

Philip Colmer

01-15-2004, 11:34 AM

Good customer support? Apparently you haven't been to the Axim site Philip. There are numerous complaints about Dell's poor customer support---unless you're a business. All calls handled by India. Rude clueless reps; and when they don't know what to do, they hang up. Makes me wonder which vendor will get my money since support will be so challenging.
That's a fair point. My wife's company bought some Dell hardware and didn't have the same level of support that we get as a corporate purchaser. Support is a big headache for these sorts of companies, and it isn't a problem I'd like to try to solve. It is bad enough providing internal IT support 8O

It isn't just confined to IT related companies either. Any company that operates some sort of call centre, with the first line of defence being someone who goes through a Q&A script or doesn't really understand the product offering, is going to suffer from the same issues.

--Philip

jbachandouris

01-15-2004, 11:37 AM

Philip...should I wait for Bluetooth. The sale on the 3Xi ends today. $311 instead of $349.

Philip Colmer

01-15-2004, 12:18 PM

Philip...should I wait for Bluetooth. The sale on the 3Xi ends today. $311 instead of $349.
If it is your intention to use Bluetooth, I would say that it will be cheaper to buy a device that has BT integrated into it than add buy a device without BT and then add an SD BT card. Economics of extra packaging for the SD & extra interface electronics means that the price of the SD card is always going to be more than integration.

If, however, BT is just a "would nice to have" thing, it might come down to how quickly you want the device. Now, I have been given a month that it is expected to be available but I don't know when in that month, and I don't know what availability will be like. So, for all I know, these things are going to be so popular, you might have to wait until Christmas :)

I hope that has given you enough of a suggestion as to what to do. I cannot give any more specific answer than that.

--Philip

Vincent M Ferrari

01-15-2004, 02:40 PM

For what HP would charge for that you could get an OQO :-)

Of course, in order for that to happen, the OQO would have to hit the assembly line, and frankly I'm not holding my breath.

SeanH

01-15-2004, 06:05 PM

Philip...should I wait for Bluetooth. The sale on the 3Xi ends today. $311 instead of $349.
I would strongly recommend waiting to for a PDA with BT and WiFi. This year you will see a lot of accessories that only work with BT. BT like WiFi has taken a few years to take off but both are doing well now. There are no standards that are close to the popularity of BT for wireless peripherals. WiFi will never be used to interface with a headset, GPS, or wireless keyboards. Zigbee is the only wireless standard that is getting some press but it’s far on the horizon. If you plan on keeping your PDA more then a year get one with BT.

Sean

hopeful797

01-15-2004, 08:48 PM

i guess it would sell well for $350 on sale with bluetooth, but i still think they have to undercut the 4155 to take market share from hp.

anyway, i have a few dell computers (but no Axims! all hps...) and i have to stay that their support is terrible--except compared to everyone else's support, which makes their support wonderful. i'm really being honest about that--they can be a terrible pain to deal with, but they will deal with you and they eventually do solve the problem or replace the machine. it helps to that so many people own the machines...you can find info about models that are several years old on Dell talk support forums which has proven invaluable for an old latitude laptop i have. in fact, that's the difference for me on buying dell vs other computers--i know i'll be able to find people to answer my questions one way or the other either inside dell or in the user community. that's not true, say, for a fujitsu laptop.

daS

01-15-2004, 09:43 PM

Zigbee is the only wireless standard that is getting some press but it’s far on the horizon.
I agree. Also, just like Bluetooth isn't targeted to replace Wi-Fi, Zigbee won't replace Bluetooth. Zigbee is very low power and very low speed. The target for it is more like wireless X10 (the home automation control standard) or the Ir remote for your TV and stereo - just for sending out a few simple commands, but doing so very cheaply and without interference with other wireless standards.

I'm not sure if there is really much of a market for Zigbee. X10 is still a niche product and for Zigbee to really take off it will need to be added to toasters, microwaves, etc. The problem is that these devices are very price sensitive and every penny counts. The other tarket is industrial automation, but that market has far less price pressures, but Bluetooth is already making headway there, so Zigbee is probably too late.

benixau

01-17-2004, 01:52 PM

daS

01-17-2004, 07:23 PM

Not needed in the 4350. The thing is 13.7cm tall - one at top (WiFi) and one at bottom (BT) there you go - nice and cheap ……

I assume that you were just joking, but in any case, the 10cm number was only a rough guess, and in any case, at these short distances, the adaptive frequency hopping should work, it just won't work well. TI's method is good even for laptops. That's because on a laptop, they often try to use a Wi-Fi antenna on each side of the screen (sort of like the two that Wi-Fi access points have. This also makes it hard to find a place for Bluetooth. At least this is the argument that a few laptop and tablet vendors have given me for why they don't have Bluetooth in their products. TI takes away that excuse.

BTW - I believe that the HP does actually use the TI chipset.
Yes, you are correct - at least for the 4000 series iPAQs. TI even had an iPAQ in their display at the Bluetooth Americas show.

benixau

01-18-2004, 03:25 AM

Not needed in the 4350. The thing is 13.7cm tall - one at top (WiFi) and one at bottom (BT) there you go - nice and cheap ……

I assume that you were just joking.
Yes I was.

TI takes away that excuse.
Apple took it away a little earlier with their powerbooks

BTW - I believe that the HP does actually use the TI chipset.
Yes, you are correct - at least for the 4000 series iPAQs. TI even had an iPAQ in their display at the Bluetooth Americas show.

Thanks for clarifying. It works well (TI chipset). I should have a review of it up at SydneyPPC (the 4350 that is) soon.