Coming attractions - What Will the Next iPAQ Be?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.ipaqabilities.com/reviews_and_articles/articles/0104-coming_attractions_next_ipaq.php' target='_blank'>http://www.ipaqabilities.com/review...s_next_ipaq.php</a><br /><br /></div>"We've seen a lot of different iPAQ Pocket PC's being launched first by Compaq, and now by HP. Unless HP has a best kept iPAQ secret under wraps, presumably, the next iPAQ Pocket PC to be released should be the much acclaimed H6000 series. This iPAQ would have a 3.5 inch transflective display with 65000 colours, an integrated VGA camera, SDIO slot, a removable 1850mAH Lithium Ion battery, 64MB RAM/64MB ROM, Bluetooth (v 1.1), WLAN 802.11b, and Quad-band GSM/GPRS (class 10) built-in. This iPAQ will apparently be roughly the same size of the H2200 series and more specifically, should be released in March 2004. Although there has been no clear mention of which processor it will use, there is a lot of speculation that HP will be using the OMAP processor from Texas Instruments. One fact that remains unknown is the speed and specifically which processor will be used in this iPAQ Pocket PC..."<br /><br />The speculation about the new iPAQ continues, and in this intriguing article, Marc from iPAQabilities.com has dug up some tantalizing bits of information. A must read!

[Phoenix]

Now this is what I've been waiting for!!! Very nice specs!

I think the only thing I would ask for would be two SD slots. One to permanently allow for primary storage/backup/memory expansion, and one for when I'm transfering data from another devices SD card without having to remove my primary storage SD.

Nevertheless, this is very exciting, and apart from dual SD slots, it sounds fantastic!

8)

[ledowning]

This is getting closer to what I want all the time. I'm between PDAs right now and am trying to decide what to get next. The choices right now are IPAQ 2210, Toshiba e805 and possibly the new Dell X7. Any PDA that I purchase needs to have both SD and Compact Flash slots so that I can use the various accessories and cards that I had used with my old Jornada 568.

[Vincent M Ferrari]

Sounds like the Wanda (http://weblogs.asp.net/tmarman/archive/2003/07/14/10054.aspx) technology we all heard about is finally making its way into a device.

That should set an interesting standard for the rest of the market as far as connectivity goes.

[Sven Johannsen]

64M ROM, that's nice. Hopefully we will get to take advantage of what is left over. The 24M of user ROM in the Axim was very usefull. Hopefully it will get a little more stable. The current iPAQ File Store seems to be a crap shoot based on the web comments. I wouldn't know, I don't use it. 2.8M of ROM isn't worth taking the chance. (2215 and 4155 BTW)

64M of RAM...Come on..can't we get passed that? We know it is possible. Do PPC OEMs have some sort of arrangement with Flash Memory makers, to keep the RAM low? Trust me, more RAM will not make me buy any less flash memory, it will just make my life better. Chant with me now OEMs, MORE RAM..MORE ram...more ram.

[ntractv]

What about 128mb on-board RAM?

[Foo Fighter]

No doubt this model will be uber-expensive. I'm terrified to see the MSRP. 8O

[Mike Temporale]

:drool:

Gimme, Gimme, Gimme!!!

[iPAQ_ace]

64M of RAM...Come on..can't we get passed that? We know it is possible. Do PPC OEMs have some sort of arrangement with Flash Memory makers, to keep the RAM low? Trust me, more RAM will not make me buy any less flash memory, it will just make my life better. Chant with me now OEMs, MORE RAM..MORE ram...more ram.

Amen brother! The 128MB's on my H5550, well, what's left of my 128MB's of RAM is pleading me for more!! :lol: :helpme:

[Air]

there are a lot of conflicting rumor about this h6000, even fresh rumor from Vegas indicating that h600 is canceled because of its complexity.

But if it is out soon, we sure hasn't seen any FCC pictures.

[Len M.]

Well, the 2210/2215 was wonderful because it was small, fast and it had both CF and SD slots. And although it was not quite as fast as the Toshiba e750/e755, it was fast enought.

I'd hoped that the next iPAQ would still offer the two slots and perhaps improve the SD slot performance so that it would match or beat the Toshiba. As it stands, the HP's SD card write speed is less than half the Toshiba's.


Len M.

[cdcooker]

How about including the new Toshiba 0.85" hard drive? 128MB of RAM is still not enough anymore. With a true internal hard drive, SD slot can be free for IO device. Also, I hope the IR is consumer IR like the H2200, and it must be on the top of the device. The 4xxx put it on the bottom and the side, make it useless for remote control. Of course, the headphone jack must be on the top also. BTW, is it time for IPAQ to include a jog dial? They should incorporate the jog dial find in Sony Clie. Its jog dial is a real dial, it won't return to the same position.

[szamot]

This thing needs a screaming fast processors otherwise it will be slow, slow going everywhere, including off the shelf and into my pocket. 128 MB of RAM should be a standard now to say the least. Other than that this is one sweet looking device.

[whydidnt]

If this rumor turns out to be true....where do I sign up for one? It's good to see I am not the only one who feels like 64 MB isn't enough. With the price of flash memory dropping, why aren't more PPC's shipping with a sufficient amout. In any event, even if it is released with 64 MB, I am probably still a buyer, as I have been waiting for something like this for a LONG time. :lol:

whydidnt

[Birdman]

Because this unit is rumoured to be a GSM/GPRS device does that mean that it will have to be picked up by a cel phone carrier and sold that way, as opposed to being sold like a "regular" PDA through retail channels?

For example, all the PPCPE devices, at least in N.A. are sold by the carriers and are locked to the particualr carrier unless you can buy one overseas or somehow get it unlocked.

Is it possible that HP would sell this unit in unlocked fashion at Best Buy, for example or will I once again have to wait for a (Canadian) cel phone carrier to pick up this unit and offer it on their network. (Or buy it unlocked from somewhere and use it.)

[ricksfiona]

With all the features, especially the GSM/GPRS, this screams corporate...

Then, we need to talk about more RAM. With the database applications people run, 64MB doesn't cut it.

It's a great device, but I'll never go back to 64MB for a work related PDA.

[nosmohtac]

What I want to know, is when are they coming out with another iPAQ that is in the 55XX format, so it can use the sleeves. The 6000 is useless to me if you can't add a cf or pc card. Then I might sell my e805....NOT!

[R K]

64M of RAM...Come on..can't we get passed that? We know it is possible. Do PPC OEMs have some sort of arrangement with Flash Memory makers, to keep the RAM low? Trust me, more RAM will not make me buy any less flash memory, it will just make my life better. Chant with me now OEMs, MORE RAM..MORE ram...more ram.

More RAM is nice but I'd like to see more ROM. Right now, I've made a system where almost all my programs are stored in my iPAQ H5455's ROM space. I've filled up about 18MB with programs, and I used the remaining 1MB for a Windows directory/registry backup.

With this setup, I leave about 38MB of RAM for multimedia files (maps, videos, e-books, etc...), and if I get into a situation where I need to do a hard-reset, I still have all my programs with me in ROM.

For me, the iPAQ's ROM store works great, and I've had no trouble with it at all unless the program is made specifically to work in RAM (such as drivers). The ROM, coupled with a few other things, was what made me switch back to the iPAQ H5455 from the iH2215. Personally, I'd like to see 96MB in ROM rather than 128MB of RAM.

[Bladefree21]

This is another nice probability, 8) still wondering who is going to adopt the TI Wanda? It would be really cool (from most designs) to see an HP form factor on the outside. 3.8" or 4" displays would be another plus!

More RAM is nice but I'd like to see more ROM. Right now, I've made a system where almost all my programs are stored in my iPAQ H5455's ROM space. I've filled up about 18MB with programs, and I used the remaining 1MB for a Windows directory/registry backup.

With this setup, I leave about 38MB of RAM for multimedia files (maps, videos, e-books, etc...), and if I get into a situation where I need to do a hard-reset, I still have all my programs with me in ROM.

For me, the iPAQ's ROM store works great, and I've had no trouble with it at all unless the program is made specifically to work in RAM (such as drivers). The ROM, coupled with a few other things, was what made me switch back to the iPAQ H5455 from the iH2215. Personally, I'd like to see 96MB in ROM rather than 128MB of RAM.

You make an interesting point, I use Pocket Backup for accidental data loss. (But) To have more ROM, leaving the RAM empty; then having large storage cards... Why don't they do that already :?: :?: :confused totally: Cost effective?

Trust me, more RAM will not make me buy any less flash memory, it will just make my life better. Chant with me now OEMs, MORE RAM..MORE ram...more ram.

It would be very hard to go back, :frusty: having used 128M of internal RAM.

[disconnected]

The best part of this is the battery.

For the rest, I have a 5555 now, and would be perfectly happy with the same size body and the same features it has now (128MB of memory, WiFi and Bluetooth), but with a 4" screen and the rumored higher resolution in 2004; an improved (faster screen rendering) PIE would also be nice.

I'm not sure I want an integrated camera since there are starting to be restrictions on where you can have a camera.

Two SD slots would be handy, but I can live without the second one.

I don't want a phone included (especially now that several airlines are saying you can't use any device with phone capability, even with the phone part turned off); after years of waiting I finally have a Sprint bluetooth phone and I'm satisfied with my two-piece combination.

[cgavula]

More ROM doesn't do those of us trying to calculate long distance routes on our GPS nav software. More ROM doesn't help heavy duty database users or people trying to read large PDF files. More RAM!

--Chris

[OSUKid7]

Hopefully this will be my next PDA. Will probably get it mid to late summer if the price is anywhere decent (which I'm sure it won't be at the beginning).

My one question - will it be compatible with current 3xxx and 5xxx series backpacks? The WANDA design doesn't look like it will. :|

[WyattEarp]

Give me a PPC with 128RAM/128ROM, CIR, with PPCPE OS and all the trimmings of the h5555 and I'll be :D this year. 64MB of RAM is just run of the mill now a days, just like 3.5" displays. If I wanted that, I'd go back to the Palm OS.

[R K]

More ROM doesn't do those of us trying to calculate long distance routes on our GPS nav software. More ROM doesn't help heavy duty database users or people trying to read large PDF files

Why not?

If you have ROM that's can be used as File Storage, why can't you do those things? I can read PDFs from ROM just fine.

[iPAQ_ace]

Hopefully this will be my next PDA. Will probably get it mid to late summer if the price is anywhere decent (which I'm sure it won't be at the beginning).

My one question - will it be compatible with current 3xxx and 5xxx series backpacks? The WANDA design doesn't look like it will. :|

There have been a lot of rumours that the H5500 series would be the last iPAQ to have support for the expansion pack. Since Compaq has become HP, they have been moving away from iPAQ's that support these (H1900, H2200, H4100, H4300).

If the H6000 series is indeed based on the WANDA design, then i am positive that there won't be any support for the expansion packs. Keep in mind that the WANDA reference design is a few milimeter's off the size of the H2200 series.

...and to echo a lot of the postings, more RAM would be sooooooooo nice!!! But its appears to be a limitation of the WANDA design, its specs only mention 32/64MB ROM and a 64MB RAM... :(

[SassKwatch]

Isn't *everything* discussed about this device pure speculation at this point?

[OSUKid7]

Isn't *everything* discussed about this device pure speculation at this point?

yeah prolly...but still fun to speculate :)

[Fabulas]

This is why I'm sticking with my 3970.......I know the next flagship ipaq is just around the corner 8)

[OSUKid7]

This is why I'm sticking with my 3970.......I know the next flagship ipaq is just around the corner 8)

lol same here...I've been waiting for a revolutionary new iPaq for ages now. I was thinking about gettinga 54/55xx series, but decided to save up for the 6000s.

[SassKwatch]

...the next flagship ipaq is just around the corner 8)

It always is. :)

[jimski]

64M of RAM...Come on..can't we get passed that? We know it is possible. Do PPC OEMs have some sort of arrangement with Flash Memory makers, to keep the RAM low? Trust me, more RAM will not make me buy any less flash memory, it will just make my life better. Chant with me now OEMs, MORE RAM..MORE ram...more ram.

More RAM is nice but I'd like to see more ROM. Right now, I've made a system where almost all my programs are stored in my iPAQ H5455's ROM space. I've filled up about 18MB with programs, and I used the remaining 1MB for a Windows directory/registry backup.


I previously ran programs through my 5450's ROM, but found that many applications ran slow. I tried moving a few of the slowest and saw a noticable difference. Now I use my ROM for larger media files that don't need to sync up each time Active Sync runs.

Thought that the 6000 was going to be the one, but I will not replace my 5450 until I can purchase a PPC with; WiFi, Buuetooth AND 128MB of RAM (and a few other tidbits of course). Can't believe this is so hard.

[Pat Logsdon]

I will not replace my 5450 until I can purchase a PPC with; WiFi, Buuetooth AND 128MB of RAM (and a few other tidbits of course). Can't believe this is so hard.
It's not hard! Get a 4150 and a PPCTech 128 RAM upgrade. You can get a 4150 for ~$400 (http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?sid=b09y599js2105jb&id=1001617), and the upgrade (http://www.ppctechs.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=I41-064-128RAM) is $129. 8)

[maximus]

I will not replace my axim X5, until there is a Pocket PC Phone with integrated CF slot. Period. :mrgreen:

[whydidnt]

I will not replace my axim X5, until there is a Pocket PC Phone with integrated CF slot. Period. :mrgreen:

I appreciate your sentiment, but have a feeling you may be using your X5 for a LOOOOOONG time. With the current shift from CF to SD memory I seriously doubt we will EVER see a PPCPE with a CF slot. :wink:

whydidnt

[Philip Colmer]

But if it is out soon, we sure hasn't seen any FCC pictures.

That's a very good point. If the H6000 is really due out in March, how far in advance would HP have to go through the FCC process? How long does that process take?

--Philip

[Philip Colmer]

The choices right now are IPAQ 2210, Toshiba e805 and possibly the new Dell X7.
Unless I've missed some news, though, the X7 is vapourware at the moment - Dell only have the X5 & X3. I haven't seen anything lately that suggests the X7 is even on the horizon.

--Philip

[iPAQ_ace]

But if it is out soon, we sure hasn't seen any FCC pictures.

That's a very good point. If the H6000 is really due out in March, how far in advance would HP have to go through the FCC process? How long does that process take?


How long is the FCC testing process? That I'm not sure, curious to know that one myself.

I've seen products get FCC approvals a few weeks to a few months before being released. An odd exception was the H4300 which got its FCC approval after it was announced, but not yet available for sale....

...i'm looking forward to seeing an FCC approval in the not so distant future (i hope!)

[Will T Smith]

First,

HP currently has plenty of product in the pipeline. At this point they should focus on devices that correspond to PocketPC2004.

1) The biggest thing for 04 devices will be screen resolution. Palm is whooping up on PocketPC in terms of resolution. If PocketPC ups the ante to VGA, they will have the lead. It will be VERY difficult for Palm or Sony to counter given the investment that they would put into upping Palm resolution again.

2) All PocketPC devices should ship with at least 64MB. Does it really cost that more for the 64MB chipset????

3) Bluetooth standard on ALL devices. Lets vanquish IR for good. Bluetooth is finally starting to catch on especially among SmartPhone users. They use it to sync their contact with their computer.

New device classifications are showing up. Even Logitech who had previously been marketing a competing technology is shipping Bluetooth products. It's been a slow haul, but Bluetooth is here to stay.

4) Top end devices should integrate 802.11b. A unified BT/802.11b chipset would be nice.

5) PocketPC devices should have two expansion slots. CF/SD or SD/SD. Convergence devices should include SD for extra memory or Camera Phone.

6) A stupid $.10 piece of plastic to protect the screen. Really is this so stinking hard????

7) A return to jog buttons on the side of the device. Actually if the could adopt Microsoft Tilt wheel mice technology, this would be a great thumb enabled joy pad. Really the 2210 is REALLY cool but we'd still like side controller.

8) Higher capacity batteries. 1140MaH I don't think so. As a rule the battery should hold as much capacity as two AAA NiMH batteries (1400-1500 MaH).

9) Microsoft. Please update your office apps, they're really becoming dated. Please optimize Reader so it isn't slow as mollasses. Pocket Explorer and Money could also use some updates.

10) Analog light sensors. No the ambient light isn't ON or OFF. It would be nice if the device could sense the LEVEL of ambient light and provide just enough (tunable) backlight to compensate.

11) USB2.0 synching.

12) Full X-Scale optimization.

13) Native support for internal memory up to 1 Gig (Go PocketPC Techs ;-)

14) Flash memory support up to 20 Gig (mini hard drives are coming along nicely).

15) Native support for USB memory key interfacing.


Myself, I'm still puttering along on my Jornada 560. I have yet to see a device that matches it's superb ergonomics. The Jornada 2200 and Dell X3 come close, but no cigar. Please HP, just release an updated Jornada style device with flip lid. Call it an iPaq whatever, I don't care (just give it a nicer thumb-pad ;-)

[aristoBrat]

No doubt this model will be uber-expensive. I'm terrified to see the MSRP. 8O
Talking to our HP business rep, his info was it would be available thru T-Mobile for around $500-sh w/ a contract, or $700-sh w/o a contract.

He also said that there'd be a "NO-CAMERA" model available, but the price would be about the same.

[clbsvi]

For what its worth, here's what I gotta have in any brand of new PPC:
Replaceable battery. Compact Flash Slot. SDIO (or SD-whatever) slot. WiFi. Reasons: Batteries die and I don't want to have to mail my PPC off to have a new one put in, or wade thru a do-it-yoursel list. No matter what the gurus say, CF cards are more robust and reliable than the SD cards, and much less expensive besides. Further, there are many more CF functionalites available, again at a lower cost and better reliability. Also with a CF-to-PC card adapter, I can use the CF cards in my laptop.
When anyone (myself incuded) calculates the cost of add-on software and hardware accessories for a well-fitted out PPC, the total $$$ begins to approach the base cost of a well-outfitted low-end laptop. Admittedly, the PPC family has a certain geek-appeal, self included, but generally requires way too much tinkering to make even the most basic functions like Bluetooth and WiFi work reliably. There is a niche market for gurus who might wish to sell de-bugged turn-key PPCs, for example in the medical (eg. doctors and nurses, who need the small PPC size functions), and in the educational markets, for both general education (regular teachers) and special education (aids for the handicapped). I also see the posssibility for certain military and battlefield niche markets, maybe also law enforcement too, eg. universal, real-time language translation and quick-lockon GPS for the footsoldier. Think Star-Trek Tricorder.

[OSUKid7]

Also with a CF-to-PC card adapter, I can use the CF cards in my laptop.
They make those for SD cards too you know...I have a 4-in-1 adapter that I use in my tablet pc and in my iPaq with PC Card Expansion pack.

When anyone (myself incuded) calculates the cost of add-on software and hardware accessories for a well-fitted out PPC, the total $$$ begins to approach the base cost of a well-outfitted low-end laptop.

Actually, many people use their PPCs as low end laptops. I lived on just that for a week at a conference in San Jose last year. With WiFi, email, IE, AIM, MSN, and printing with HP's utility, this did quite well for me.

[chix]

Does anyone have a link to the FCC site where request for approvals are seen?

[maikii]

Still only one SD slot, and no CF???? Big mistake!!

When I was looking at buying my first PPC some months back, deciding between the 1940 and 2210, the deciding factor to buy the 2210 was the two slots, as the 1940 only had one.

I was really surprised to see that HP's recent models, more expensive and larger than the 2210, only have one SD slot for expansion! There certainly must be room to put a CF slot in these too. Why didn't they include them?

Especially with the increased use of multimedia-music, movies, etc., on PPCs, people need storage space. Also for programs, as the built-in storage is not that great. Also, there are more peripherals that use these expansion slots.

Much larger memory sizes come in CF format than SD. The price per MB is much lower. It seems more stable--more people (including myself) have had problems with SD cards going bad. And--there are still many more peripherals for CF format than SDIO.

Anyone know---why has HP abandoned CF slots, and making units, even larger ones, that only have one SD slot for expansion?

[Len M.]

HP has not abandoned CF cards: they offer a variety of CF and PCMCIA expansion packs for their 5100- and 5500-series iPAQs. And there are third-party expansion packs too (e.g., Seidio, Nexian and PiTech).


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

[maikii]

With the current shift from CF to SD memory I seriously doubt we will EVER see a PPCPE with a CF slot. :wink:
whydidnt

Excuse me, but who has decided that there should be a shift from CF to SD memory, other than HP-IPAQ? Panasonic (creators of SD) would probably like that--perhaps they are paying HP to make that "current shift"?

CF is still far more prevalent than SD. Memory cards (which include HDs in that format) go to a much higher level, much cheaper per MB, and they are more stable. Still many more peripherals in CF format.

Who says there is a "current shift"? Just because HP's new models don't have CF. If we vote with our pocketbooks, and do not buy those models, they'll start adding CF again.

[whydidnt]

Excuse me, but who has decided that there should be a shift from CF to SD memory, other than HP-IPAQ? Panasonic (creators of SD) would probably like that--perhaps they are paying HP to make that "current shift"?

Who says there is a "current shift"? Just because HP's new models don't have CF. If we vote with our pocketbooks, and do not buy those models, they'll start adding CF again.

I didn't say I liked the shift, but look around at all of the newest models of PPC, Palms, digital camera's etc. SMALL is in, and CF doesn't meet that need as well as SD does. We are seeing fewer and fewer devices that use CF. I can't think of one single smart/cell phone that uses CF. I can name several that have a SD/MMC card slot however. I don't thing there are even any rumored future SmartPhone/PPCPE devices that include CF. PalmOne doesn't even offer CF in ANY of it's models. Canon has shifted from CF to SD in their Elph line of digital cameras, the list goes on, whether we like it or not.

You can refuse to buy any non-CF device for as long as you want, and I have no probelm with your decision. But, I also think the number of devices you'll have to chose from will be a very small fraction of the market.

I don't think it has anything to do with Panasonic pressuring manufacturers to change - it has more to do with consumer pressure for smaller devices.

whydidnt

[Len M.]

Frankly, I don't see the shift at all. HP has the 2210/2215 and it takes both SD and CF. The 5100- and 5500-series takes CF and PCMCIA via the expansion packs. Toshiba's e750 and new e800-series take both CF and SD. Dell's Axim 5 takes both SD and CF.

The manufacturers realize that PDAs serve different needs. Some folks need them to be as small as can be, and those folks are well served by SD-only PDAs and phones. Others need PDAs that are more flexible and they are served by PDAs that accommodate CFs.

HP seems committed to serve the whole range of PDA users.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

[maikii]

Frankly, I don't see the shift at all. HP has the 2210/2215 and it takes both SD and CF. The 5100- and 5500-series takes CF and PCMCIA via the expansion packs. Toshiba's e750 and new e800-series take both CF and SD. Dell's Axim 5 takes both SD and CF.

The manufacturers realize that PDAs serve different needs. Some folks need them to be as small as can be, and those folks are well served by SD-only PDAs and phones. Others need PDAs that are more flexible and they are served by PDAs that accommodate CFs.

HP seems committed to serve the whole range of PDA users.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

The two new models that just came out recently both only have one SDIO slot, no CF, which is surprising. They are not small models like the 1940. They are both larger than the 2210.

In the discussion here about an upcoming IPAQ model, the specs also only mention one SDIO slot, and no CF. I have no idea whether that information (about the next model) is accurate.

I guess that is what causes people to wonder what is going on with IPAQs and CF, the two models that recently came out, and the info that was given here about an upcoming model. If it's true about the upcoming model, it does seem like a trend.

As I mentioned, if sales are low on these models, the "trend" might be very short-lived.

[maikii]

[quote="whydidnt
I didn't say I liked the shift, but look around at all of the newest models of PPC, Palms, digital camera's etc. SMALL is in, and CF doesn't meet that need as well as SD does. We are seeing fewer and fewer devices that use CF. I can't think of one single smart/cell phone that uses CF. I can name several that have a SD/MMC card slot however. I don't thing there are even any rumored future SmartPhone/PPCPE devices that include CF. PalmOne doesn't even offer CF in ANY of it's models. Canon has shifted from CF to SD in their Elph line of digital cameras, the list goes on, whether we like it or not.

You can refuse to buy any non-CF device for as long as you want, and I have no probelm with your decision. But, I also think the number of devices you'll have to chose from will be a very small fraction of the market.

I don't think it has anything to do with Panasonic pressuring manufacturers to change - it has more to do with consumer pressure for smaller devices.

whydidnt[/quote]

Interesting--most of the devices that you mention are smartphones and cameras, as opposed to PPCs.

Smartphones are a new product--so I don't think they have "shifted"--they have never used CF.

There are cameras available with CF, and others with SD. I don't know which kind there are more of. There are more now with SD than there used to be, that doesn't mean that SD is replacing CF.

This is a Pocket PC forum, and we were discussing PPCs. Other than the recent IPAQ models, can you tell me how many other models don't have CF slots? Because you have heard of one or two models without CF, is that a basis to conclude that there is a "trend" to eliminate CF slots in all PPCs, and that pretty soon all will only have SD slots? (Your quote: "the number of devices you'll have to chose from will be a very small fraction of the market". ) Where did you get that crystal ball? Pretty fuzzy logic, if you ask me.

As far as "consumer pressure for smaller devices", that is certainly the case with part of the market for cameras and phones. (Not the whole market, by any means. There are still many people buying larger phones and cameras.) I don't see, however, that PPCs in general are getting smaller at all. In fact, the two new IPAQ models that only have SDIO slots, are LARGER than the last IPAQ with CF, the 2210/15. So, there has been no size benefit by their opting for one SD slot in the new models, vs. a CF and an SD slot in the 2210.

So--if your thesis were that "smartphones are more likely to be made with SD than with CF", I would agree with you. (I don't know if any have CF.) But we were discussing PPCs, and you implied (with great surety) that CF slots would soon be extinct!. Again--where did you buy that crystal ball? :lol:

[Janak Parekh]

The two new models that just came out recently both only have one SDIO slot, no CF, which is surprising. They are not small models like the 1940. They are both larger than the 2210.
Are you talking about the 4150 and 4350? The 4150 is most definitely smaller than the 2210 -- it's only fractionally larger than a 1940. The 4350 is thinner than the 2210, although it is taller.

As I mentioned, if sales are low on these models, the "trend" might be very short-lived.
From what I hear, they're doing perfectly fine...

--janak

[nosmohtac]

It doesn't bother me that there is a trend toward SD/MMC. What bothers me, is that in the PDA arena, some OEM's think that if they provide you with BT, Wi-Fi, or both, that you don't need a CF slot as well. I keep an SD card in my device at all times. I load all the programs I can on it. The only programs I load into main memory, are those that won't run from a storage card. I admit that it is nice to have BT and Wi-Fi built in, but there are many more peripherals to add to a device than wireless. For example, I saw a recent thread asking about an SD solution for a VGA out card. Even if they do have one available, if you only have one card slot, you would have to have your powerpoint file and your presentation software loaded in main memory. What about CF GPS, CF FM radio, CF Microdrive, CF/PCMCIA, CF Camera? Some of these you can buy in SD format, but what are you going to store the pictures you take with?
So, I only have an SD slot. I'll use my SD camera, snap a bunch of pictures, then I'll take the camera out, put my SD card back in, open up file explorer, and wait while all of my pictures are transferred to the storage card. I'm sorry, while one slot may be enough for a majority of the people who are buying PDA's, many of the OEM's should be ashamed of themselves for not providing devices for the uber-geeks that made PPC so popular in the first place.

On a side note, I was very upset when HP and Compaq merged, and I found out that the jornada was going to be dropped for the iPAQ line. I loved my Jornada, but after a year with a 3970 and all of the expansion possibilities that come with it, I would love to see another hard core PPC like the 55xx with VGA. Yet, all of the talk about the next offering from HP is a device that follow more along the jornada lines (like the 22xx series) than the iPAQ series. HP have you forgotten what made the iPAQ so popular? I know that many people want something smaller, and that's fine, but don't leave the people who have been faithful to the iPAQ out in the cold. :soapbox:

[Janak Parekh]

HP have you forgotten what made the iPAQ so popular?
That might have been initially true, but from discussions on this board, many people now perceive the sleeveable iPAQs to be large and unwieldy. The huge popularity of the 19xx and 22xx devices speaks volumes towards this.

That said, HP has not yet abandoned the 3xxx/5xxx formfactor. Time will tell if they do. It has been almost 3.5 years they've kept it, which is a very long time in this industry.

--janak

[whydidnt]

Interesting--most of the devices that you mention are smartphones and cameras, as opposed to PPCs.

Smartphones are a new product--so I don't think they have "shifted"--they have never used CF.


This is a Pocket PC forum, and we were discussing PPCs. Other than the recent IPAQ models, can you tell me how many other models don't have CF slots? Because you have heard of one or two models without CF, is that a basis to conclude that there is a "trend" to eliminate CF slots in all PPCs, and that pretty soon all will only have SD slots? (Your quote: "the number of devices you'll have to chose from will be a very small fraction of the market". ) Where did you get that crystal ball? Pretty fuzzy logic, if you ask me.


So--if your thesis were that "smartphones are more likely to be made with SD than with CF", I would agree with you. (I don't know if any have CF.) But we were discussing PPCs, and you implied (with great surety) that CF slots would soon be extinct!. Again--where did you buy that crystal ball? :lol:

Actually, this thread is about Pocket PC Phones - not smartphones - but I probably blurred that line too much - However, there still hasn't been a PocketPC Phone edition with a CF slot.

As far as Pocket PC's without CF - The latest Dell's (X3) don't have CF. I don't see any Viewsonic Devices with a CF slot. The Toshiba 805 has one, but the 405 doesn't. To it's credit the Asus PocketPal does.

HP's most recent releases do not include CF slots. If we are to believe the rumor that started this thread the next model won't either. 2 years ago nearly every Pocket PC being sold had a CF slot, now less than 1/2 do. If you don't see that as a trend, then we share different ideas about what a trend is, and it doesn't take a crystal ball to see it. :lol:

And finally I never implied that CF slots were going to be extinct. As you quoted - your choices for new devices are going to be very limited if having CF is a requirment. I stand by that statement.

whydidnt

[whydidnt]

It doesn't bother me that there is a trend toward SD/MMC. What bothers me, is that in the PDA arena, some OEM's think that if they provide you with BT, Wi-Fi, or both, that you don't need a CF slot as well.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think rather than 2 slots, we really just need more onboard memory. I still like the idea of a 2-4 gb onboard mini-drive, instead of todays flash memory, or how about 1gb of onboard flash memory. That way the one available slot can be used for whatever add peripheral you chose. :D

whydidnt

[Len M.]

I still like the idea of a 2-4 gb onboard mini-drive, instead of todays flash memory, or how about 1gb of onboard flash memory. That way the one available slot can be used for whatever add peripheral you chose.
[quote]

What happens when you need more than 1 GB? Recording uncompressed audio at 24-bit/96 KS/sec needs 2 GB per hour so it'd be nice to have a minimum of four to six GB available. With CF cards that's not difficult, but with 1 GB of built-in we'll only be able to record 30-minutes.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

[nosmohtac]

I agree with the sentiment, but I think rather than 2 slots, we really just need more onboard memory. I still like the idea of a 2-4 gb onboard mini-drive, instead of todays flash memory, or how about 1gb of onboard flash memory. That way the one available slot can be used for whatever add peripheral you chose. :D

whydidnt

:) I could go along with that as well. I think you would still come to a point where that would not be good enough though.

Ya know, It doesn't even matter to me if SD becomes the world standard for media storage in small personal electronics. I have no loyalty to CF, other than the fact that CF memory is cheaper, as well as all of the other devices that are made in CF format.

At some point all of the add-ons that are available in CF will probably be available in SD format, at a very reasonable price. At that time, I won't hesitate to buy any of them, but my PDA better have 2 SD slots.