Messenger and Passport: A Little Lame?

[Jason Dunn]

This is mostly an off-topic rant, but it relates to Messenger and Passport on the Pocket PC as well. Two things bugged me this week about these items: first, I got this error message when I tried to add someone to my Messenger list:<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/1contactlistfull.gif" /> <br /><br />Upon counting, it seems 150 is the limit. Sure, 150 people is a lot, but 150 seems like an arbitrary number, and not a very high one at that. Is it a limit because contact lists are stored on Microsoft servers, and they didn't want to have storage costs get out of control? Regardless, I don't feel 150 is enough - the limit should be 500 or even 999. Anyone else run into this limitation?<br /><br />Next, the issue of Passport accounts. The email address I have on my Passport account is an old one that is largely de-comissioned, so I wanted to update it to something more logical: [email protected]. I happily logged into the Passport server, updated the email address associated with my passport ID, and then logged back into Messenger...only to see a blank contact list? WHAT? 8O I then changed my email address back to the old one on the Passport server, and all my contacts came back.<br /><br />Now, I'm not expert on identity, but shouldn't the email address be an atribute of the digital identity that Passport represents, not the entire identity itself? Shouldn't the contact list be based on the Passport ID, not the email address? Email addresses can change over time, and unless I'm missing something (entirely possible), there doesn't appear to be a way to change your Passport email address without it destroying your Messenger contact list. Has anyone else found a way around this?

[Vincent M Ferrari]

I hate stuff like this, really. It's as if nobody tests the products they ship anymore.

The good news is that your MSN Messenger works. Mine stopped working after I did the update they released :-(

[David Prahl]

That's horrible! 8O

:idontthinkso: Bad Microsoft! Bad! :idontthinkso:

[ricksfiona]

Well, another thing the server is doing is checking to see who's online and who's not. You got 150 people or more, that can add up to the server's processing....

To me, 150 is a lot of people. The most I've ever seen anyone have is about 20.

I would like to feel your pain, but I use Trillian as my IM'er ;-) I just love the lack of ads...

[nitrofly]

Yeah go Trillian it's the only way. Anyway messenger doesn't even have logging functions - what use is that as an IM client!?

[bdegroodt]

Interesting. I had the same issue with the Passport email and contact list. I've stuck to using an old email address for years now. Never get an email there, but I still have the Passport account.

On a different, forward looking issue related to the 150 limit. I never added anyone except about 50 people that I "need" to stay in touch with real time. However, that number has been growing since I installed Outlook 2003. Users of that program know that each email has a little messenger icon that gives you the option of adding someone very easily (cutting about 5 steps out of the old process). This 150 contact limit could become more of an issue over time as I have over 1,800 contacts in my contact folder. That means less than 10% can be on my messenger list ever. Not a big deal for a home user, but as more of us seek a replacement for email (read SPAM), IM is in contention.

I wonder if the corporate editions have this limit. Yahoo now allows Yahoo's resume processing software to manage candidate and hiring stakeholders through Yahoo IM. Surely a corporate user would quickly exceed 150 contacts.

[bdegroodt]

Yeah go Trillian it's the only way. Anyway messenger doesn't even have logging functions - what use is that as an IM client!?

If you work for Enron et al, it might be a good thing (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112969,00.asp)... :twisted:

[Oliver Mitchell]

a fix for the messenger list is to, click contacts when you're logged in and then click save contact list, then log in under the new account and import the contact list, bit of a pain i know, i do also agree the 150 people limit is a real pain, also for the logging functions get messenger plus at www.msgplus.net it's a great add in which gives a lot more functionality

[Sean Murphy]

The thing that burns me the most about the passport system is the DRM rules. 6 devices is a joke. I buy a new PocketPC 2 times a year and a new computer yearly at work and the same at home. That gives me a year and a half to use my purchased e-books and then they are gone to me forever :evil: . Palm reader is much better in this respect, books I bought 4 years ago still work on all my devices.

[hoyboy9]

I use AOL Instant Messanger for all of my IM needs. It has a 200 person limit per username. AOL also stores contacts on its servers.

[dean_shan]

Jason, you could log on with your all address and export your contacts. Then with your new address import that and you should have all your old contacts back.


PS you should switch to Trillian. It is much cleaner, fast, and better then the MS messenger program.

[Jason Dunn]

Yeah go Trillian it's the only way. Anyway messenger doesn't even have logging functions - what use is that as an IM client!?

I used Trillian once, and somehow I managed to delete my entire Messenger list of contacts, which should be impossible, but Trilliant let me do it without even so much as a warning. So, no thanks, Trillian isn't for me. :worried:

Messenger 6.1 has chat logging, and even before that you could add it and remove the ads with Messenger Plus.

[Jason Dunn]

PS you should switch to Trillian. It is much cleaner, fast, and better then the MS messenger program.

I'll have to take another look at it, but when I tried it about a year ago, it was very visually confusing to me - lots of windows and places to click, and none of it made any sense to me. I don't need people from other IM services on my list - everyone I need to talk to uses Messenger - so for me the advantage of switching to Trilliant would be...what exactly? ;-) I have a buddy who uses Trillian and he can't send files to me, or receive files from me, whereas I can do that with almost everyone on my Messenger list. So I'm happy enough with Messenger thanks. :-)

[Jason Dunn]

Ok, I took the advice of exporting all my contacts, changing my passport email address, then importing them again. It worked! But what didn't work is that all my group names are gone, and none of my contacts are assigned to any of the groups....&lt;sigh> So I have to manually re-sort 150 or so contacts. :evil: Very short-sighted implementation by Microsoft.... :roll:

[Jason Dunn]

$@#@#ing MICROSOFT!!! AUUUGGHG HGHGH!!!!!

:soapbox:

So guess what happend? I imported my contact list, and it asked me if I wanted to have everyone re-authorize me. I thought "Ok, that must be how it knows to remove jason@ from the lists and add passport@". So guess what happend? I'm now listed TWICE in everyone's lists! Both jason@ and passport@ are in their lists. AUGHH!!!! The Passport team at Microsoft should be beaten with folding steel chairs. TOTALLY unacceptable and COMPLETELY illogical. My Passport should be tied to me, not to ONE email address....

:twak:

[Janak Parekh]

I don't need people from other IM services on my list - everyone I need to talk to uses Messenger - so for me the advantage of switching to Trilliant would be...what exactly? ;-)
Probably not a whole lot, in that case. :)

--janak

[Programmer]

Well, another thing the server is doing is checking to see who's online and who's not. You got 150 people or more, that can add up to the server's processing....

To me, 150 is a lot of people. The most I've ever seen anyone have is about 20.

I would like to feel your pain, but I use Trillian as my IM'er ;-) I just love the lack of ads...


I have a close to 100 contacts on my messenger. If microsoft doesn't change this that just means that yahoo or AIM will take over in IM spot. This is a limitation which probably wont last very long. Microsoft isnt that stupid.

-- Robert

[johncruise]

I don't need people from other IM services on my list - everyone I need to talk to uses Messenger - so for me the advantage of switching to Trilliant would be...what exactly? ;-)

You'd be able to sign on many copies of MSN/passport accounts... so even if you have a limit of 150 users per account, you just register more accounts and that would solve everything (except for the fact that some people knows you by a different passport account) :D

[gohtor]

Lame lame lame.

I've got to be more selective of contacts I add in now.

Reminds me of a Sienfield episode where Elaine had to judge weither a person was "sponge" worthy. lol

or another episode where Sienfield was being bumped up and down a speed dial number. =)

Robert Huie

[Ed Hansberry]

The thing that burns me the most about the passport system is the DRM rules.
That is set by publishers, Not MS and not Passport. Passport is just used to enforce it, sort of like an electronic key.

[MichaelA]

I personally use GAIM (http://gaim.sourceforge.net/) for most of my IM needs. With a few minor exceptions, the only friends I know that run MSN Messenger work at Microsoft. In order to play the new IM games with them I installed Messenger, but I use GAIM for everything else. Most people I know are on Yahoo, some are on AOL, and a few people use ICQ.

GAIM doesn't do skinning or any of the fancy visuals, but that's kinda why I like it. Trillian used to be good before they made the commercial version available, but then I noticed a large number of bugs creeping in with new updates to the free software. Most people I know have always avoided Messenger because of the advertisements and the inefficient use of space in the window.

[Dave Beauvais]

... My Passport should be tied to me, not to ONE email address...
I agree with this and it's one of many reasons I will not use a Passport for anything critical. (I hate Microsoft Reader and Messenger & Hotmail are the only Passport services I use.) Now that I have my own domain, it's likely that I will never change e-mail addresses again, but I created a Passport account many years ago when the Passport service was introduced using my ISP-provided e-mail address, which no longer exists. After unsuccessfully trying to close that Passport account, I ended up just abandoning it. Several months ago I created a throw-away Hotmail account just to have a Passport for use with Messenger.

[iPAQ_ace]

I haven't come across this issue, but my wife was going off :bad-words: about the 150 limit a few weeks ago.

I tried trillian a while back and wasn't satified with it. With MSN, you can log on with a password. Last time I checked, if anyore logged into my computer in the office and started Trillian, they would see everyone on my list. I didn't exactly feel like my boss logging on my computer with his Win NT account and snooping my conversations with coworkers (not to say that i save my conversations there anyways).... :iamwithstupid:

ICQ was my fav until all my friends moved to MSN... :frusty:

[lapchinj]

...I happily logged into the Passport server, updated the email address associated with my passport ID, and then logged back into Messenger...only to see a blank contact list? WHAT? 8O I then changed my email address back to the old one on the Passport server, and all my contacts came back...
It would seem that your email address is you’re ID. I know Handango does this since I’ve been trying for over a month to combine my 2 email accounts into one. I don’t want to loose all my purchase information or frequent buyer points. I’ve had this ongoing email discussion with a Handango account rep and I still can’t understand how they or anyone could make a customer’s email address their ID. It’s bad database practice and just makes for bad customer experience. You would think that nobody every changes and email address that people would want to keep an email address even when they receive 300 pieces of spam a day. But this seems to be the same issue that you’re having.

Jeff - :frusty:

[lapchinj]

...Now that I have my own domain, it's likely that I will never change e-mail addresses again...
Good luck. If your lucky that email address will last a year before you get spammed out of your inbox. The best thing would be like Jason mentioned to have an account tied to a person not an email address.

Jeff -

[Ed Hansberry]

...Now that I have my own domain, it's likely that I will never change e-mail addresses again...
Good luck. If your lucky that email address will last a year before you get spammed out of your inbox. The best thing would be like Jason mentioned to have an account tied to a person not an email address.
I've got 3 email addresses that are relatively spam free - less than 2 spams per year on average. One of those is 3.5 years old. You just have to know how to practice safe computing and whom to give the email address out to. BTW, all 3 emails get a decent volume of emails.

[lapchinj]

I've got 3 email addresses that are relatively spam free - less than 2 spams per year on average. One of those is 3.5 years old. You just have to know how to practice safe computing and whom to give the email address out to. BTW, all 3 emails get a decent volume of emails.
You’re correct on that. My email address is also over 3 years old and I was doing fine until about a month ago when the first few spam’s started coming through. I must have slipped someplace and now I'm starting to pay for it. I might be able to salvage it though. I'm only getting a few and those are coming in spurts (get a few and skip a few days) and seem to be getting less and less. But still, even the most diligent person is apt to step on a mine – sooner or later.

I have a second email address which was my first and I keep it just for kicks to see how much spam comes in. Right now it averages 300 emails a day and on the weekend it goes up to 400 a day.

But it's like the traffic on the highway; it gets worse every year never better.

Jeff -

[Kati Compton]

I tried trillian a while back and wasn't satified with it. With MSN, you can log on with a password. Last time I checked, if anyore logged into my computer in the office and started Trillian, they would see everyone on my list.
I think if you create multiple profiles, you can use a password to log in. So you could create a dummy "default" profile with no contacts....

But I could be wrong.

[Vincent M Ferrari]

I had to stop using trillian. I use it on three computers (home, work, laptop) and everytime I delete a contact on one, it reappears on the others, and then back on the one I deleted.

My contact list has shrunk from a combined 80 or so to 30, but I can't get rid of these contacts, and every time I load trillian, they all come springing back.

It's freakin' annoying.

[Jason Dunn]

Oh, here's the icing on the cake: when it sent out the authorization requests to the 148 or so people, guess what? It seems most of them never received it! So now I have a completely gimped up contact list missing the vast majority of my contacts. AUUGGGHHH!!!!!

:bad-words:

This is utter crap! :evil:

[Ed Hansberry]

Oh, here's the icing on the cake: when it sent out the authorization requests to the 148 or so people, guess what? It seems most of them never received it!
I was wondering if I just wasn't on your friends list anymore.... :lol:

What a pain. Glad I used a hotmail/passport account for mine from the get go. Dumb luck on my part.

[M4X P0W3R]

Hey all,

A little bird told me that you probably wouldn't be subject to this problem if one of you paid (or better still, got a 2 month trial then cancelled after this...) for MSN Premium and brought it to the attention of L3 tech support in Redmond, WA. As I understand the procedures, the fix would be universal--for paying and non-paying customers alike. That would be because the passport.net architecture, as far as I understand it, knows no difference between a paying MSN/Hotmail ES subscriber except when it comes to signing in to MSN Premium and Hotmail. Personally, I've never heard of a customer complaint about running out of contact space in messenger, but that's probably because paying MSN customers are usually not so techy as to have 150 IM contacts. Then again, the other possibility is that you have to pay to be able to have infinite contacts........ but it's worth a try.