Decuma: Handwriting SIP, Now For Pocket PCs

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.handango.com/brainstore/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&platformId=2&productType=2&catalog=0&sectionId=0&productId=93228' target='_blank'>http://www.handango.com/brainstore/...productId=93228</a><br /><br /></div>"Decuma OnSpot is a new concept for handwritten input, modeled closely to actual writing with pen on paper. A single input area is used for writing and presenting recognized letters and for editing the text. This makes input natural and fast, and allows you to focus on the content rather than the writing. You don't have to learn or adjust to a certain writing style or learn a special alphabet. Uppercase and lowercase characters, digits, punctuation marks and special symbols, as well as accented characters, can be mixed in the same input mode."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20031223-Decuma.gif" /><br /><br />We talked about this technology <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=748">over a year ago</a>, but it came out for Pocket PCs just last week. I've never played with it before, but the above image makes it look like a very promising form of input. You can get more information <a href="http://www.decuma.com/">on their homepage</a>. They're also offering a $5 discount special until the end of this year. [Affiliate link]

[Vincent M Ferrari]

Initial impression:

IT'S ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!

I'll play with it more tonight and give a more, er, unbiased review of it later, but so far it's absolutley amazing...

[OSUKid7]

Very neat :) but I'm getting an internal server error on that Handango page...anyone find the right url?

HTTP 500 - Internal server error

[OSUKid7]

https://www.handango.com/brainstore/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&jid=EFDX39E3285668F7D241F48CF3BFAB59&platformId=2&productType=2&catalog=0&sectionId=0&productId=93228 ...that works for me, strange that the other one didn't :roll:

[David Johnston]

And this: http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=1&platformId=1&productType=2&productId=93228 (non-affiliate, though)

[Janak Parekh]

OK, I tweaked the URL -- hopefully that fixes it. :) Strangely enough, the original URL works just fine for me...

--janak

[OSUKid7]

OK, I tweaked the URL -- hopefully that fixes it. :) Strangely enough, the original URL works just fine for me...

Yeah, very strange...I was IMing a friend who visits this site and he could visit it fine too...things like that have happened a lot recently lol, good thing I'm building a new compter on Thursday :)

[vagelis]

I have to agree with the consensus so far. Decuma OnThe Spot is a very unique and effective SIP. I have finally put my (2-yr) Block Recognizer (and 6-yr Graffiti) habit to rest :lol:

If only they could develop Greek Alphabet input in addition to Latin (since I'm Greek) I'd be ecstatic 8O

Worth the price of admission IMHO

[CTSLICK]

I was very intrigued by Decuma when I tried it on the Sony UX-50. My only knock on it was that it took up too much screen real estate. Have to give it a test drive on the PPC!

[Reggie]

When I was using my Clie NX80 as my main PDA, Decuma (which is natively installed) has become my favorite text input tool. Now that I am using a UX, I'm using the keyboard more often. I still use decuma once in a while when in tablet mode.

It's good to know that it's now on PPC. I hope you guys enjoy Decuma as much as I do. :)

[CESkins]

This program has plenty of potential but I have not found it to be superior to Calligrapher or the built-in letter recognizer SIP for text input. Unlike the letter recognizer SIP, there are no suggested word(s) to speed up data input and thus one has to write out the entire word as in Calligrapher. This takes time. I found that I ended up having to insert spaces often if I started writing a new word before all the letters of the old one had been recognized. Calligrapher v7 was superior as far as speed in my hands with complete sentences as I could write the entire sentence on the screen as fast as I could write and 1 second later it was recognized. I will continue to test the program but so far it seems more a replacement for the letter recognizer SIP than Calligrapher based on my usage. Lots of potential though. :)

[David Johnston]

OK, I tweaked the URL -- hopefully that fixes it. :) Strangely enough, the original URL works just fine for me...

--janak

I should have mentioned that the original URL worked for me too - one minute. I tried it again a few minutes later and it gave me an error. Probably Handango breaking...!

[darrylb]

I tried this and my impression is that it is probably a great replacement for the built in letter recogniser, and great for those new to PocketPC's, but when I switched from this back to fitaly, the speed difference was phenominal - and I'm not that fast on ftaly (~30wpm). If you like to write using the old school style (i.e. handwriting), this with some practice and training would be great!

[Dave Potter]

Does anyone know if this works on WM 2003?

[CESkins]

Does anyone know if this works on WM 2003?
Yes...I was testing it out on my iPAQ 2210 and it worked fine.

[Dave Potter]

Does anyone know if this works on WM 2003?
Yes...I was testing it out on my iPAQ 2210 and it worked fine.

Wow! Thanks for the quick response!

[OSUKid7]

Does anyone know if this works on WM 2003?

Yep, worked for me too on my iPaq H3870. With any application for PPC, it can't hurt to try it out on a different OS...usually doesn't do anything major if it doesn't work.

[KH]

Does it work with cursive and mixed characters like Calligrapher?

[CESkins]

Does it work with cursive and mixed characters like Calligrapher?
No...that's one reason why I probably won't be purchasing it. :(

[Dave Potter]

Decuma rocks! :rock on dude!:

[Doug Raeburn]

Tried it, loved it, bought it. It's great to be able to actually edit your text in the SIP. :ppclove:

[Vincent M Ferrari]

Decuma rocks! :rock on dude!:

I agree. I fully intend to use it until the trial expires (whenever that is), and then buy it. I won't be ditching FITALY entirely, but this is going to take over for me...

(Don't let Jenneth hear me say that!)

UPDATE: Spoke too soon: See below...

[kamikun]

I have to agree, Decuma is so smooth... like scotch.

Haven't used the new system yet and hope I won't... Lemme 'splain. Decuma was the standard handwriting input for Casio's BE-300s and BE-500s (the Japanese version... physically the same system except for the system language).

The Japanese IME on the BE-500 was SOOO much better than MS' Pocket PC IME it wasn't even funny. For Ninhongo-wakabaka's like myself it allowed for all kind of stroke mistakes and mis-sizings and would still hit a match... on an underpowered system. And it handled Roman letters just as easily as Japanese ones. Although that version didn't allow for blocks of letters to be entered at one time.

I sent an email to Decuma Japan yesterday to see if they have any plans to release their version to the public like they have with Decuma Latin.

Hopefully I can buy that and install it on an English language PPC!! So far the only PPC IME alternative for native English speakers and English language PPC users is Effy's Open-Eyes. That's not a bad system by any stretch but it doesn't offer handwriting recognition, just stroke input (which means you either have to know the phonetic reading or the stroke order of the knaji you're entering).

[ctmagnus]

It looks appealing, but...

It has separate tabs for entering alphabetic characters and numerical characters :!: Letter Recognizer (in all its primitive glory) can do that on one screen.

[Vincent M Ferrari]

It looks appealing, but...

It has separate tabs for entering alphabetic characters and numerical characters :!: Letter Recognizer (in all its primitive glory) can do that on one screen.

You can enter punctuation, numbers, and letters all on the main tab. The other tab speeds up numeric entry if you're entering a lot of numbers.

I have to say, my initial enthusiasm croaked when using it with AIM. I'm much faster with FITALY, and if you make your characters on a slight slant (which I have a habit of doing) then you're screwed. It reads L's as slashes, and such, and it's a pain to keep correcting over and over.

Also it tends to run multiple words together, and you have to keep editing in a space. That sucks...

It's nice, and with a few modifications (make the line smaller and the entered characters smaller, for example) it could be great, but at $30, after some real-world usage, I'm not as impressed as I was initially.

Oh well. :oops:

[Floodguy]

I have to agree, Decuma is so smooth... like scotch.

Haven't used the new system yet and hope I won't... Lemme 'splain. Decuma was the standard handwriting input for Casio's BE-300s and BE-500s (the Japanese version... physically the same system except for the system language).

The Japanese IME on the BE-500 was SOOO much better than MS' Pocket PC IME it wasn't even funny. For Ninhongo-wakabaka's like myself it allowed for all kind of stroke mistakes and mis-sizings and would still hit a match... on an underpowered system. And it handled Roman letters just as easily as Japanese ones. Although that version didn't allow for blocks of letters to be entered at one time.

I sent an email to Decuma Japan yesterday to see if they have any plans to release their version to the public like they have with Decuma Latin.

Hopefully I can buy that and install it on an English language PPC!! So far the only PPC IME alternative for native English speakers and English language PPC users is Effy's Open-Eyes. That's not a bad system by any stretch but it doesn't offer handwriting recognition, just stroke input (which means you either have to know the phonetic reading or the stroke order of the knaji you're entering).

Yes, Decuma really rocks.
And for those people, who bought the NTT DoCoMo Musea PPC, Decuma is a free download (you have to input the device's serial ID). And it doesn't work on other jap. PPC's yet (tested it on Genio - no luck).
Use it a lot, because japanese writing is really smooth.
:D

[CTSLICK]

Been trying it for a while, bit rough at first but speeding up quickly. For whatever reason the correction gestures and methods seem to be very natural for me. A little more practice and I might be equal with Calligrapher. My recognition rate is pretty good right out of the box...think I will trying customizing a few letters though.

One side benefit, I can preview passwords before I enter them into the field...only a problem if someone is staring over my shoulder which happens pretty much...never. Normally I switch to Fitaly to make sure I get them right.

Figures I just plunked down for Calligrapher.

[proutpa]

I love this software too but a little warning.
DO NOT go into Fitaly and make Onspot the default input method, this will result in a lockup on next soft reset.
The only way out of it is a hard reset. 8O

[tanalasta]

Here's looking forward to a great review from one of you folks (and if you could, a section with a comparison to Calligrapher) in the near future :)

I've not tried either of these programs because i'm most happy with using plain ol' letter recognizer. I can write fast (almost as fast as i write on paper) and edit quickly and the reason i've not tried anything else is because i've had horrible horrible experiences with transcriber. And because dragging, editing/selecting text is so slow.... So if someone can assure me that i won't get gibberish whenever i attempt to write numbers and punctuation (bible verses being one example) i may actually download this program and try it... but unless i can write much faster than with letter recognizer, $29US is a lot of money. I'd rather pay for a site subscription...... *sigh.... i'm still broke*

Whilst we're on the subject of text input and accuracy... is there a text/word document program out there for ppc that allows autocorrection and underlining of words like the desktop version of MS word?

[darrylb]

Whilst we're on the subject of text input and accuracy... is there a text/word document program out there for ppc that allows autocorrection and underlining of words like the desktop version of MS word?

Yep - TextMaker will do it.... :mrgreen: do a search of these forums for more info on it.....

[nishka]

It's a neat toy and I will play with it some more, but it probably won't be for me.

The recognition is pretty cool and the adaptability is pretty darn good as well. My gripe is that unlike Calligrapher I get slowed down by the limited area in which to input text. not only that, having to click a button to get the text to appear above is time consuming and inefficient.

Hopefully somebody will combine the best of both worlds, or better yet make Calligrapher work exactly like it did in the Newton days.

The latest Calligrapher version is the best yet.. I switched to word only recognition and have seen some amazing improvement in recognition quality.

[Doug Raeburn]

The recognition is pretty cool and the adaptability is pretty darn good as well. My gripe is that unlike Calligrapher I get slowed down by the limited area in which to input text. not only that, having to click a button to get the text to appear above is time consuming and inefficient.

This is rarely necessary... you just go to the beginning of the line (in front of the little arrow that automatically indents) and continue writing. When you do this, the previously entered text will appear in the document without any extra steps. And doing it this way maintains the flow of your writing.

The more I use it, the more convinced I am that the developers actually sat down and figured out how people really use such an input scheme.

[proutpa]

This is rarely necessary... you just go to the beginning of the line (in front of the little arrow that automatically indents) and continue writing. When you do this, the previously entered text will appear in the document without any extra steps. And doing it this way maintains the flow of your writing.

The more I use it, the more convinced I am that the developers actually sat down and figured out how people really use such an input scheme.

Wow, nice find this improved my speed greatly!!

Edit: Fixed misquote, sorry Doug :oops:

[Doug Raeburn]

This is rarely necessary... you just go to the beginning of the line (in front of the little arrow that automatically indents) and continue writing. When you do this, the previously entered text will appear in the document without any extra steps. And doing it this way maintains the flow of your writing.

The more I use it, the more convinced I am that the developers actually sat down and figured out how people really use such an input scheme.

Wow, nice find this improved my speed greatly!!

Great... only I wrote it, not nishka... :wink:

By the way, we do have a review of OnSpot upcoming.

[CESkins]

By the way, we do have a review of OnSpot upcoming.
Doug, if possible try to compare OnSpot to both Calligrapher and the built-in Letter Recognizer SIP. OnSpot looks to be a fairly good replacement for the built-in SIP but it can't recognize cursive like Calligrapher, limits input to a small area of the screen, recognizes one letter at a time (I have found no way to speed up/slow down the letter recognition), often runs words together if not enough elapsed time or spacing between them, requires frequent corrective space insertions, and is limited to 10 macros (vs Calligrapher's unlimited macro capability). I see both software packages targeting somewhat different audiences. What would be cool is if they added a word completion feature like the built-in SIP or Calligrapher's pop-up keyboard to speed up word entry. Looking forward to the review. :)

[nishka]

Doug,

Thanks for the tips. That did improve things but I now have some other gripes:

1. letters have to be cleanly seperated which unfortuantely is not the way I write.

2. When you get towards the end of the screen with a word it doesn't fare well..

All in all this is a great start with a lot of potential. Hopefully they can continue to perfect it. It's always good to see new and innovative methods of handwriting recognition!

[Doug Raeburn]

Doug,

Thanks for the tips. That did improve things but I now have some other gripes:

1. letters have to be cleanly seperated which unfortuantely is not the way I write.

2. When you get towards the end of the screen with a word it doesn't fare well..

All in all this is a great start with a lot of potential. Hopefully they can continue to perfect it. It's always good to see new and innovative methods of handwriting recognition!

nishka...

Glad I could help a little.

As for your other observations...

Item 1 - that's true... no way around it.

Item 2 - have you tried the dash at the end of the line? It allows you to continue at the beginning of the line in the middle of a word.

Doug

[Doug Raeburn]

Doug, if possible try to compare OnSpot to both Calligrapher and the built-in Letter Recognizer SIP.

It's not my review, but I'll pass the suggestion along. :wink:

OnSpot looks to be a fairly good replacement for the built-in SIP but it can't recognize cursive like Calligrapher, limits input to a small area of the screen, recognizes one letter at a time

All true - of course, the small area part is a limitation of most SIPs.

(I have found no way to speed up/slow down the letter recognition),

Try the Setting icon on the toolbar (far right), then tap "Settings", go to the Settings tab and tap Advanced... interpretation speed is found there.

often runs words together if not enough elapsed time or spacing between them, requires frequent corrective space insertions,

I found this at too at first, but this improved greatly for me after I used it for a while...

and is limited to 10 macros (vs Calligrapher's unlimited macro capability).

I seem to recall that a future release will expand the number of macros.

Yes, no input method is perfect, but I think OnSpot has some real promise.

Doug

[Doug Raeburn]

Happy Holidays to you all! :D :D :D :) :) :)

[daveh]

This is a great input method and I am going to switch from calligrapher.

I had been using calligrapher, but the ability to just write over letters to correct spelling errors is a killer feature for me. In addition, my speed and accuracy have improved so much it is almost like writing on paper.

The tradeoff ( there is always a trade of with these things) for me is the loss of the more advanced macro feature of calligrapher and having to write in the input box.

[iant54]

Having tried it, I've bought it! I couldn't get along with Calligrapher, and I dithered too much with Fitaly (couldn't remember where the letters were), but this is fantastic!

[CESkins]

Having tried it, I've bought it! I couldn't get along with Calligrapher, and I dithered too much with Fitaly (couldn't remember where the letters were), but this is fantastic!

How much faster is your text input with OnSpot compared to the built-in Letter Recognizer SIP? One of the reason's why I am on the fence is that Calligrapher recognizes my text input very well and I find that the letter recognizer SIP text entry is faster in my hands than OnSpot's (as it has no word completion feature). I would like to know what speed advantages you found with OnSpot. :?:

[Jeff Rutledge]

I tried it and ran into same issue some have described here in that all my words ran together. I believe I left enough space between, but the software disagreed. I also had recognition errors with the way I write. I don't see myself getting fast enough to compete with FITALY.