Web Site Editor

[Robb Bates]

I'm looking for something to edit my website. I'm currently using IgtEditor and FTPView to edit and post my pages. While this does the job, it's a bit tedious.

What I mean is, I hate to have to load FTPView, connect to my website, navigate to the right folder, copy the file to my PPC, open IgtEditor, modify the file, check it on PIE locally, save it, go back to FTPView, navigate to my local file location, transfer it to my website and then check it again on PIE directly from my site. Quite a few steps.

Ideally, I'd like a graphical WYSIWYG editor that could just browse in PIE to my web page, click an EDIT button, modify it and then click save and it will automatically FTP the modified page back to my web site.

Any ideas?

What do y'all use to edit your web pages remotely?

Robb Bates

[Pat Logsdon]

I've used Dreamweaver since version 2.0, so I'd recommend the latest version, Dreamweaver MX 2004 (http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/). Best WYSIWYG editor on the planet, bar-none. That said, it's a bit expensive at $399.

Macromedia also has a product called Contribute (http://www.macromedia.com/software/contribute/)that may work for you as well - price is $99.

Both pieces of software have free 30 day, fully functional trial versions if you want to check them out.

[Robb Bates]

No no no. I meant a web editor on the Pocket PC. This is a Pocket PC forum isn't it? :wink:

Robb

[Jason Dunn]

I'm not aware of anything like you need, unless you want to go the CMS route - I can edit much of Pocket PC Thoughts right from my Pocket PC.

[Robb Bates]

Forgive the ignorance, but what do you mean by "the CMS route"?

Robb

[Paul Martin]

No no no. I meant a web editor on the Pocket PC. This is a Pocket PC forum isn't it? :wink:

Robb

Robb,

I've looked for one two, but no solutions yet. Just a moment ago, I was playing with the idea of using TextMaker (http://www.softmaker.de/tmp_en.htm) as it will load up and edit html pages. On the PPC screen, it might be hard to see what's going on! I did have problems when it tried to load up a current page; the images gave it a problem. Additionally, you could not switch to an HTML view. Still, it might be fun to play around with!

p.s. love the picture of the cat and lime helmet! :lol:

[Robb Bates]

p.s. love the picture of the cat and lime helmet! :lol:

hehe, Sorry I can't take credit for that one, but it was so funny I just had to post it. Cat w/Lime Helmet (http://www.robbnodie.com/blog/images/88fef33238fb9ddc815e78f8f2c1075e.jpg)

Back to the Web Editor. I'd be happy with an HTML editor that let's you just save the page back to the location you got it from. Assuming you enter all the right login info of course.

Robb

[qmrq]

There is no such thing as a good WYSIWYG editor. I will just leave it there, and not flame SurgicalSnack for using that piece of trash called "Dreamweaver".

Use vi. :P

[Paul Martin]

Use vi. :P

:?: Is this another campaign to use notepad only? :razz:

[qmrq]

:?: Is this another campaign to use notepad only? :razz:
I have never in my life encouraged anyone to use windows notepad. Also, notepad and vi have pretty much nothing in common, so I'm having trouble understanding your question. ;)

[Robb Bates]

Is this another campaign to use notepad only?

:( That's how I was doing in until I found some HMTL editors. But even IgtEditor isn't far from that.

So I guess I'm stuck doing text based HTML. :roll:

Robb

[qmrq]

Forgive the ignorance, but what do you mean by "the CMS route"?

Robb

CMS is an acronym for "content management system".

[Pat Logsdon]

There is no such thing as a good WYSIWYG editor. I will just leave it there, and not flame SurgicalSnack for using that piece of trash called "Dreamweaver".
:mrgreen:

I have learned through long, hard years of bitter experience that there are two kinds of coders, and never the twain shall meet. I am actually in both camps. :) I use Dreamweaver at work and home, but I've also coded entire sites using just notepad.

If I want to make something quick and clean, I'll use DW. If I want to do something horrendously complex, I'll use notepad, and just use DW for FTP.

All of that being said, the only HTML editor I've found that is actually somewhat usable on the PPC is PocketHTML (http://www.isquaredsoftware.com/pockethtml.php?page=Features), but you can only open and save locally.

[qmrq]

So I guess I'm stuck doing text based HTML.
If you mean stuck using a plaintext editor, that's the way to be. There aren't really any good WYSIWYG tools out there.

[Pat Logsdon]

There aren't really any good WYSIWYG tools out there.
Just out of curiosity (and I am NOT trying to start a flame war here), what features do you think a WYSIWYG tool should have to make it "good"?

Again, just genuinely curious. 8)

[Paul Martin]

I have never in my life encouraged anyone to use windows notepad. Also, notepad and vi have pretty much nothing in common, so I'm having trouble understanding your question. ;)

Just kidding. Actually, I have no idea what vi is. Could you provide a link or an explanation? (The notepad comment was in reference to the WYSIWYG note.) Thanks.

[qmrq]

In response to what SurgicalSnack said: Pfft.

Long response! Dreamweaver produces nested tables and such for layout, which is pretty dumb. HTML is a language for document structure, not presentation. The table element is for TABULAR DATA, not for layout! Dreamweaver also uses the deprecated font element. How long have we had CSS1? ;)

Also... notepad.. ew. You should try a real editor, eh? vi, UltraEdit32, nedit, bbedit.. there are lots of good text editors out there. Notepad doesn't even indent for you. :(

I wrote a little about my experience with Dreamweaver (http://www.livejournal.com/users/qmrq/) on my journal if you want to take a look at it.

[Steven Cedrone]

Just kidding. Actually, I have no idea what vi is. Could you provide a link or an explanation? (The notepad comment was in reference to the WYSIWYG note.) Thanks.

vi... (http://www.thomer.com/vi/vi.html)

Steve

[qmrq]

Just kidding. Actually, I have no idea what vi is. Could you provide a link or an explanation? (The notepad comment was in reference to the WYSIWYG note.) Thanks.
The most powerful and highly configurable text editor known to man. :lol: You can download vim here (http://www.vim.sf.net) if you want to take a look at it. vim is a vi clone that adds some nice features, such as syntax highlighting.

[Robb Bates]

...what features do you think a WYSIWYG tool should have to make it "good"? ...

Well, since I only do simple web pages, the usualy word processor stuff (justification, fonts, colors, bold, italics, etc.), images and links are sufficient for me. This of course is on a PPC web editor.

By the way I used to use PocketHTML, but I found I like IgtEditor (http://www.fannsoftware.com) a little better. They pretty much do the same thing. Just IgtEditor has the HTML tags set up in a human readable menu rather than using the cryptic tags themselves in a menu.

Robb

[qmrq]

Just out of curiosity (and I am NOT trying to start a flame war here), what features do you think a WYSIWYG tool should have to make it "good"?

Again, just genuinely curious. 8)
Something that outputs only XHTML 1.0 strict or HTML 4.01 strict code, and uses CSS properly. (No nested tables for layout (!))

[qmrq]

So I guess I'm stuck doing text based HTML. :roll:
If you mean stuck using a plaintext editor to make websites, that's a good thing.

[Robb Bates]

If you mean stuck using a plaintext editor to make websites, that's a good thing.

Uh, Right. If you say so. Editing websites with a plain text editor is like beating your head against a wall... It feels so good when you stop. :wink:

Robb

[qmrq]

Uh, Right. If you say so. Editing websites with a plain text editor is like beating your head against a wall... It feels so good when you stop. :wink:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't made too many websites. ;)

[Dave Beauvais]

I can see this devolving into one of those classic computer religious wars: Pocket PC vs. Palm PC vs. Mac Leaving PC on 24x7 vs. turning it off when not in use Windows vs. LinuxPerhaps we should all agree to disagree, use whatever best suits us, and get back to the original question. ;)

[Robb Bates]

...and get back to the original question. ;)

Thanks for being the bad guy. I was starting to lose hope.

So, let me ask the question a different way.

What HTML editors ARE there for Pocket PCs?

IgtEditor
PocketHTML

What else?

Also, how about FTP clients since they are part of the same problem.

FTPView

What else?


Thanks,
Robb

[acemarke]

(note: I'm the author of PocketHTML.Net)

SurgicalSnack: Thanks for the compliment (I think).

Robb: Yeah, I've been thinking about the way I've got the tags menu set up currently, and I've got some revisions in mind. Allowing an option to toggle between human-readable descriptions and just the tag elements is one item on my list of things to do.

It sounds like you guys are exactly the target audience I'm interested in, so I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on what you'd like to see in a PocketPC HTML editor.

What features in particular are you looking for (such as FTP support)?
What's the best way to select and enter HTML tags?
What sort of pages do you usually work on?
And (just because I'm curious) what sort of reasons do you have to be doing HTML work on a PocketPC, and where do you usually do that work?

Also, if you've got any particular thoughts on PocketHTML.Net, either positive or negative, I really do want to hear them. I've gotten very little user feedback thus far, and not knowing what people like or dislike makes it rather hard to make improvements.

I can't guarantee any major changes in the near future since several other projects are currently taking up most of my time, but I'll do my best to consider any suggestions you might have and work on them as time permits. Stop by http://www.isquaredsoftware.com at some point, though - I really do want to push out a new version.

Anyway, thanks for at least trying PocketHTML.Net, and I'll keep doing what I can to make it the best HTML editor for the PocketPC.

[Paul Martin]

(note: I'm the author of PocketHTML.Net)....

I'm always impressed when the author a program stops by to seek feedback. I've been using the lgteditor for a few versions. I'll download PocketHTML.Net today.

I do the website for my companies local shop and am setting up a personal site to play with. The company site uses a CMS system, so there I wouldn't have much use of FTP, but for the personal site, it would be great! Most of my website work is on my desktop at work. I'm still in the nested tables stage <no flames please!> as I'm not real comfortable with CSS layout and honestly, am pretty weak at generating HTML (instead of just editing) and so am using Frontpage for general layout, then working on the HTML to tweak FP's code bloat! :lol:

That's my story and I'm sticking to it (for now). :D

[Kati Compton]

I can see this devolving into one of those classic computer religious wars: Pocket PC vs. Palm PC vs. Mac Leaving PC on 24x7 vs. turning it off when not in use Windows vs. LinuxPerhaps we should all agree to disagree, use whatever best suits us, and get back to the original question. ;)

You forgot emacs vs. vi!

[qmrq]

You forgot emacs vs. vi!
...

Do not get me started on that one.. blech. I mean emacs is a nice operating system I guess... the editor just sucks though.

[Kati Compton]

You forgot emacs vs. vi!
...

Do not get me started on that one.. blech. I mean emacs is a nice operating system I guess... the editor just sucks though.
Yes, please, don't start. I was joking, not inciting.

[Robb Bates]

(note: I'm the author of PocketHTML.Net)
...
Robb: Yeah, I've been thinking about the way I've got the tags menu set up currently, and I've got some revisions in mind. Allowing an option to toggle between human-readable descriptions and just the tag elements is one item on my list of things to do.


Awesome! No insult to your software intended. I really liked it and since you're willing to work with users to make it better, I'm going to switch back. :D

What features in particular are you looking for (such as FTP support)?

Built in FTP is the big one. Ideally, I'd like to be able navigate to my web site using PIE, then click on an edit button (that you've added of course), then edit it in PocketHTML.Net and then save it with one click. Of course my login and FTP info would have to be set up beforehand.

What's the best way to select and enter HTML tags?

I like the configurable buttons, but the option of making them human readable would be better, and being able to add your own would be good too. I guess a combination of default HTML tags and user editable tags. I just hate all those cryptic HTML tags. I'd also really like to see some kind of WYSIWYG editor.

And since it doesn't hurt to ask, how about some kind of web gallery generator? Just pick a directory of images and have it automatically generate thumbnails and index pages. Hey, it costs nothing to ask, right? :wink:

What sort of pages do you usually work on?

Simple ones. Almost exclusively my personal web site. Updating pictures of my new son and stuff like that.

And (just because I'm curious) what sort of reasons do you have to be doing HTML work on a PocketPC, and where do you usually do that work?

I like to use my PPC because I can update my website anywhere, anytime, whenever I have an idea.

Keep up the good work. And bravo to you for listening to user feedback.

Robb Bates

[acemarke]

I've found several examples of C#-based FTP code, so I should be able to incorporate that in some form. I don't have any experience trying to harness the PIE control for actual usage other than just displaying content, so that will have to wait. Assuming I can get the FTP code to work on a PocketPC, I can at least allow remote saving or one-touch uploading without too much difficulty.

You can actually do some custom tags for the QuickTag buttons at the moment, though it's a bit buried. There's a tags.csv file in the PocketHTML directory. If you open it up as a plain text file, there's some instructions in there for adding a custom item, which you can then assign to a button in the Options menu. Yes, I know it's a horrible way to do it, but it was sort of a last second afterthought.

Actually, on that note, I'm hoping to redo the way I put together the tag menu. Currently, the menu structure is hard-coded, though all the information for each tag is read in dynamically from tags.csv. I'm not really happy with that, and I'm wanting to switch to a dynamically-generated menu created from an XML file. It'd be nice to give users a way to graphically manipulate the menu, but I'm not sure how feasible that is. Still, editing an XML file ought to be a bit more readable and doable than messing with the current tags.csv file.

Gallery generator, huh? Hmm... Dunno about that as an integrated part of the program, though perhaps as a separate tool, or something that could be plugged in... but not particularly a high priority at the moment. If I get enough time at some point, perhaps.

As for a WYSIWYG editor... I don't really see being able to pull that off. The HTML control on Windows has a built-in editing mode, but not the PocketPC one. So, as much as I'd like to provide that, I don't think it'll happen. Hopefully you can make do with just tapping to toggle between text and display.

All that said, you're actually doing a pretty good job of asking for stuff that I've been thinking about working on :)

[Robb Bates]

Well, I switched back to PocketHTML. I just realized that IgtEditor doesn't have some features that PocketHTML does. Like the customizable buttons.

Acemarke, here's another feature you could add. Templates. I know there is already a basic HTML file you can load, but I'm thinking you could have a template directory and the user could put any kind of HTML file in there and could load it from the File/New menu item. This would differ from just loading an existing file in that you couldn't save the file back to the template directory, so the templates would be safe. This would be a good and easy way to do my gallery pages.

Another feature is to add special tag dialogs, such as an image dialog that would let you browse for the image file, fill in the width and height and link text, etc. in a user friendly form rather than in the text editor. Then click OK and the editor would insert the properly formatted tag information in the text editor.

Also, I'd like to be able to launch PocketHTML with a filename as a parameter. That way I can use Total Commander as a file explorer to launch PocketHTML with the selected HTML file already loaded into it.

Let us know how the coding is going. Oh, and I'd love to beta test for you.

Robb Bates

[CardMSG]

PocketHelp is the only thing I've found, but I haven't actually tried it out. It's free too.

http://www.e-pocketsetup.com/pockethelp/default.asp

I've used IgtEditor too and it seems pretty good for a code based editor. Anyway, if you try PocketHelp, let me know if it's any good.

[Tom W.M.]

I like to use Ultraviolet HTML editor. It has a neat little HTML tag feature that let's you insert predefined set of tag(s), with the part you want to replace highlighted. For instance, you can set up an image tag macro where “<img src="” is inserted directly, “Type image location here” is highlighted, and “" alt="" title="" />” follows the hilighted text. You should be able to find Ultraviolet at HPC.net (http://www.hpc.net/).

I have run across a number of editors that I would like to try like PocketHTML, but most of them won't run on the device I use for (X)HTML editing—a MobilePro 780 (and therefore not capable of running the .NET compact framework). Is it possible for you to compile a version of PocketHTML for Windows CE 2.11? (MIPS)?

[acemarke]

Unfortunately, no. Since PocketHTML is written in C# and using the Compact Framework, it's limited to devices which can use the CF. Last I checked, the CF only runs on PocketPCs and Smartphones, not Handheld PCs.

So, as much as I'd love to get a version for you, it's completely impractical at this point. It would require a total rewrite using C++ for a platform version that I've never dealt with and have no access to.

I really am sorry about that. All I can say is that should you ever happen to get a PocketPC, lemme know what features PocketHTML is missing compared to Ultraviolet and I'll see what I can do.

[Robb Bates]

Resurrecting this thread:

I've started looking for a WYSIWYG HTML editor for the PPC. Pockethelp seemed to be a good idea, but I can't get it to install. Has anyone else had success? How is Pockethelp? Would it work for managing a web site?

Or more generically, what is a good way for me to manage my web site remotely via my PPC? I don't need to do anything fancier than text, pictures and links.

Robb

[Paul Martin]

Robb,

I installed PocketHelp quite a while back. Honestly, I never could figure it out, gave up, and moved to one of the others. Wish I could help.

Paul

[Robb Bates]

I've spun off this topic to a new slightly different topic regarding remote web site management. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26698)

I hope this is OK with the moderators.

Robb

[KrakaJap]

I know this thread is old but I thought I would share my experience... as for the Dreamweaver bashing... you absolutly must look at it from the development point of view. And by development I mean working on a team that is devoted entirely to web based applications and content distribution. On top of which you should understand what Dreamweaver actually IS and not what you want it to be. Dreamweaver, in my opinion, is an excelent program and one of the best out there. Now granted it has grown for the better since the last post but most people seem to look at it as a quick and easy way to develop a single website. This is not the case... it can be used for that: by a single user wanting to set up a personal home page but of course a standard TEXT editor would be far more suitable in this instance. Now one must also know "how" to use Dreamweaver properly and I do emphasize "properly". When working in an industry where web applications are the number one priority, if you stick with a text editor you might eventually be out of a job. Working on multiple pages at the same time (in my experience this means 30 to 40 different web applications), Dreamweaver is a god send! That is what Dreamweaver is and does best. Many people fail to look further into Dreamweaver and assume that it cannot handle code properly when in fact this is entirely not true! The graphical representation of a project (or what it would look like through a browser) is a simple feature to give the user a quick look and/or to help out those who know almost nothing of HTML code. If you go into Dreamweaver and try to create a website by representation only then of course the code is going to be messy, redundant, and just plain bad.

I'd be willing to bet that anyone in a high volume web development company will tell you that it's not the quality of code that makes the sale but rather it's the speed and display of this content that makes the difference. It's sad, yes, but Dreamweaver helps in this respect. If your company wants something quick and flashy... no problem... if on the other hand your company wants something stable and portable... not a problem either.

In all honesty, I wouldn't be caught dead without both Dreamweaver and Notepad. Notepad for the quick and simple patches or updates to code and Dreamweaver for the long haul.

Just my opinion of course :)

-K

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