Cats & hunger strikes [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

Kati Compton

12-15-2003, 04:49 AM

I wasn't aware that liver damage could occur from a cat not eating. Are you sure it's stress from the move? I assume the vet checked for physical problems such as tooth decay/oral infections, abdominal pain or swelling, etc. that might make eating uncomfortable? A year or two ago, my cat became constipated and stopped eating for three or four days. Once that passed -- so to speak -- she returned to normal. Two of a friend's cats just had several teeth removed on Friday due to severe tooth decay and infections.

Doc checked for a lot of things, took temperature, did several blood tests and an x-ray. It's possible it's her pancreas, which would be bad, as the treatment is almost opposite what we're proceeding with under the assumption it's the liver. In fact, she'd almost definitely have to have a tube inserted in her small intestine to feed her past where the pancreas would be involved.

If she gets worse or doesn't improve at all over the next week, they'll do a liver biopsy and an ultrasound.

Tomorrow we're going to take her back to the vet for more fluids (they inject fluid subcutaneously and it "soaks in" over time. Makes her look like a camel...) and to get an appetite stimulant.

I will be very happy when she's eating on her own. Force-feeding her every 2-2.5 hours (and it takes a half hour to do it) is VERY stressful, and I'm useless for a half hour afterwards. Let alone the stress on the cat, which I'm even more concerned with.

At least my job doesn't start until January.

Kati Compton

12-15-2003, 04:53 AM

What caused the cat to stop eating in the first place ?
While it could be a number of physical problem, the most likely answer is stress related moving. We moved about 4 weeks ago. The first week she was spooked. The second week she *seemed* to adjust, but then the 3rd week is when she started to be "not normal".

My theory is that she thought this was a vacation, but after being here for 2 weeks, realized we weren't going "home", and got upset.

But it could be all the "weird" people that have come through here (washer/dryer delivery, installation, the painter, the movers, etc.) that really set her off.

Or that once we finally opened most of the doors in the house she felt the house was too big, given that it's nearly 3x the size of our old condo.

Who knows. :(

This is definitely one of those times I wish I could teach her to talk so she could tell me what exactly upset her, and so I could convince her she'd feel better if she'd just eat.

Dave Beauvais

12-15-2003, 08:04 AM

... they inject fluid subcutaneously and it "soaks in" over time. Makes her look like a camel...) ...
I did those injections myself twice a day at home for about the last week and a half before I lost Midnight (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=144589#144589). It was really weird feeling a big lump on her side that was cool to the touch while the rest of her was warm. One of those last ditch efforts to keep her hydrated and help combat the effects of kidney failure.

I know what you mean about wishing cats could speak, or at least understand what we're saying. I would have loved to have been able to explain to her why I kept poking her with a needle. :| I would also have enjoyed saying "see? I told you so!" after she puked up the house plants she'd eaten over the years. :lol:

Please keep us updated. I'll be thinking about you guys and wishing you the best of luck. :)

PetiteFlower

12-15-2003, 06:49 PM

One of my cats reacted really badly to moving too, he hid for about 2 weeks. He didn't starve himself entirely though. I eventually had to pull him out of his hiding place by force and block it off and make him come out and explore. He found another hiding place but at least it was on top of something rather then under something, so I could see him and talk to him. He warmed up eventually, it took a couple of months before he was eating the normal amounts again, I hope I don't have to move with him again for a long long time!

Korlon

12-15-2003, 06:57 PM

Kati Compton

12-15-2003, 07:07 PM

So sorry to hear about your cat. The stress of moving can be hard on cats, as I have seen first hand. I wanted to suggest one other possibility - have you changed cat food recently, or could your brand have changed formula? My wife's family had a cat that wouldn't eat, threw up when she (the cat, not my wife) did, and was becoming very, very sick. Turned out she was alergic to one of the dyes in her food. They switched brands and everything was fine.

Nope. We feed our cats Iams Less Active dry food every day, and Iams regular wet food every other day. That didn't change.

The only thing that changed is our water - up here the water is softened except at the kitchen sink. However, this cat in particular is used to drinking from the bathtub faucet several times a day. The new water doesn't taste good to her. So it would be possible that she became dehydrated, and cats do tend to not eat when dehydrated.

karen

12-16-2003, 12:33 AM

I am also sorry to hear that kitty is not well...

My Coco has been through the water shots, too.

Even when one of our cats was sick and wouldn't eat, we found something that they just couldn't resist:

- for one, it was canned tuna.
- for another, it was Chicken Joy (like KFC)
- for another, it was veggie lunch meat (go figure)

I once nearly killed one of mine giving it a pill. She was choking and drooling and couldn't talk. I couldn't get the pill out or down...so I offered her juice from a can of tuna and she drank it and all turned out well.

My kitties and I will be thinking of your kitty...

Karen

karen

12-16-2003, 12:37 AM

Oh, one other thing. My vet recommended a spray that calms cats... You spray it around your house ..it's basically kitty pheromones...and they calm down. Feliway...it's expensive in Canada (like $50 for a tiny bottle.).

My vet uses it in their cages to make the cats calm. We use it at home when one of the comes home from the vet because the sick kitty usuallyl smells like a hospital and it freaks out the other cats.

Let me know if you need help finding it...especially if you can't your hands on it right away.

http://www.feliway.com/

PetiteFlower

12-16-2003, 04:30 AM

Yeah it's the facial pheromones, you know when your kitty rubs its face on you, it's not necessarily marking you for ownership, but as a comfort to itself :) I didn't try the spray but the book I read about cats recommended it also.

drop

12-16-2003, 05:23 AM

I am so sorry. Stress is very a real problem. Does you cat likes boxes? I would suggest creating a "safe place" for the cat. A large size boxes where the cat can go to if it is stressed by noise or its own imagination.

If the cat doesn't like the soft water, then get bottle water. Dehydration is a serious concern. My vet once suggested keeping the water bowl filled to the rim to encourage the cats to drink more frequently. How does it help, I don't know. But my three cats did drink more water.

Sugar is not good for cats, or human, for that matter. But when I tempted my cat with baby food after it underwent surgery.

From the way you described, it looks like a stress related issue. But I had to say a word or two about Iam pet food just in case it has something to do with it. My dog had been on Iam dog food for the first 4 years with no problem whatsoever. Then she started having serious ( I mean "serious" ) diarrhea for months. We did all kind of tests on her. No result. We were ready to take the dog to Vet Hospital when a guy from the pet store suggested a different brand of dog food. He said my dog might have food allergy. I was ready to try anything. The brand of dog food he recommended didn't do the trick. But I eventually found a brand that worked. It was food allery. A very serious one at that. I was fortunate to stumble upon the answer. The vet didn't help. Later on I found out the timing of my dog's health problem was about the time when Proctor and Gamble purchased Iam. I was told that Proctor and Gamble changed the formula and incorporated ingredients from its other "operations".

I didn't know that for a fact. But I was shaking with fury when I heard it.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

PetiteFlower

12-16-2003, 07:07 PM

I give my cats filtered water, because tap water starts tasting nasty after only an hour or so of sitting out, and I don't want to have to change the water bowl that often! Plus it's already in a pitcher so it's easy to grab the pitcher and fill up the bowl once it's already on the floor, less spilling.

One odd thing I've noticed--I use one of those 2-compartment dishes for water, because I have 2 cats, and thought it was easier then 2 water bowls(I do use 2 food bowls, they both eat from both of them, but they like to eat a little further apart then a divided bowl would be). The weird thing is, they only ever seem to drink from one side of the bowl at a time! If I have it perpendicular to the wall, they drink from the side closest to the wall; if I have it paralell to the wall, they drink from the right side. If I turn the bowl around, they'll drink from the full side, I guess because it's then in the favored position. I just don't get it though.

Cats are very strange creatures....

maximus

12-17-2003, 02:41 AM

get a dog :mrgreen:

I have a dog back in singapore. All I can say is that life is very much less stressful when you have a dog (or pets in general). I will not mention the name of my dog, because it might offend someone pretty high up in this forum :mrgreen: lets just say that 'he' has always been there for me.

I realized that when I moved to indonesia. When I go home at nights, there is noone to greet me at the door, no tail wagging oh-so-very-happily when seeing me. Jogging alone is not fun either. Waking up in the morning requires alarm. Back in singapore, 'he' is my alarm. 'He' always wakes up at approximately 6 AM, start barking, demanding me to get him outside for morning potty ...

Life as a bachelor with no dog and no car ... sucks :devilboy:

PetiteFlower

12-17-2003, 02:46 AM

Dogs are way too much work for me. You have to walk them, they need a lot more attention, you can't go out overnight without getting a sitter for them, not for me. I don't disagree that they're great pets, but cats are much more self-sufficient, so they are better for my lifestyle right now. Someday when I have kids maybe I'll get a dog :)

Kati Compton

12-17-2003, 05:17 AM

If the cat doesn't like the soft water, then get bottle water. Dehydration is a serious concern.

Yes. On further reflection, we (my husband and I) have decided that is the root of the problem. While the water that goes into their bowl is NOT softened, the bathtub water is. And since she was used to drinking directly from the tub faucet several times a day at the old place... well, she just wasn't getting quite enough water. It was a gradual dehydration, which is why her eating tapered off, as dehydrated cats also don't feel like eating.

So that's our current theory, and the most likely one given the facts.

My vet once suggested keeping the water bowl filled to the rim to encourage the cats to drink more frequently. How does it help, I don't know. But my three cats did drink more water.

Many cats dislike having their whiskers touch the sides of the bowl. So if it's higher, they are less likely to touch. Having a wider bowl might have the same effect. Either way, the cat may not want to have the tongue touch the bottom of the bowl either, so that could contribute.

Sugar is not good for cats, or human, for that matter. But when I tempted my cat with baby food after it underwent surgery.
Yes. Baby food is one thing we're trying (although you have to be careful to avoid ones with onion powder, as onions are REALLY bad for cats...) However, now since I'm force-feeding her, she's *full*, and not inclined to eat on her own. So I am going to talk about that with the vet on Thursday when we bring her back for another blood test. Right now the concern is just to get enough calories into her, not to reintroduce her to eating just yet (though that will be soon).

I was told that Proctor and Gamble changed the formula and incorporated ingredients from its other "operations".

I didn't know that for a fact. But I was shaking with fury when I heard it.

Weird. When did this happen? We get Iams because it's generally considered to be a very good-quality food without getting into ridiculous expense.

Kati Compton

12-17-2003, 06:03 AM

Kati Compton

12-17-2003, 06:23 AM

Cat status:

She has not worsened since Saturday.

She's still a bit jaundiced. That will probably last a little while even if things go well... Anyway. The vet gave her 50/50 odds of recovery. I think it's a little better than that, since she hasn't appeared to worsen since Saturday, but that could be wishful thinking. We were told that we wouldn't see any noticeable improvement for the first week or so.

I'm feeding her 18cc's every 2 hours or so. And getting up 1-2 times during the night to feed her too. Gotta get those calories into her... Today was 18cc's of food per feeding. Tomorrow I'm going for 24cc's per feeding, 2.5 hours apart. Unfortunately, she's not very cooperative. She keeps her jaws clenched tight. Up until recently, though, she'd swallow when the food was squirted through her teeth into her mouth. Now she's even getting stubborn about that and I have to pry her jaws open to make her have a swallow reflex. But my sweetie is SO CAREFUL to not bite me... I can stick my fingers in her mouth basically wherever I want and know I'm safe. My poor kitty...

Tomorrow I have to give her fluids subcutaneously, which will be...uh... not fun. Thursday we have another appointment with the vet where her liver function will be tested, and we'll know if she's staying the same, improving, getting worse, etc. They may do a biopsy and/or ultrasound to make sure we're treating the right syndrome, as there's a pancreatic disease that can cause a similar problem, and would require different treatment.

The vet may recommend we put a feeding tube in her, which would be a surgical procedure under a general anesthetic. This would last probably 4-6 weeks while we reintroduce her to food and supplement what she's willing to eat directly into her tummy.

Less important - my husband and I had to cancel our trip home to parents for Christmas and our ski trip in early January because we need to take care of our kitty. I don't care, as long as she gets better.

Pat Logsdon

12-17-2003, 06:30 AM

Sub-q fluids aren't that bad - I've given them to rabbits many times, and it really helps. It's amazing how much a little hydration will do.

I've found that the best thing is to just get a bag from the vet (lactated ringers is what the fluid is called), and hook it above the spot where you'll be giving the fluid. Put the cat on a towel, and get your husband to pat the cat, distract her, etc. Then just hold up the scruff of the neck, slip the needle in, and start the drip. The cat won't feel it, and it'll be fine as long as she's distracted.

I think it's more scary for the HUMAN than it is for the animal - at least at first!

Good luck!

Dave Beauvais

12-17-2003, 06:44 AM

I've found that the best thing is to just get a bag from the vet (lactated ringers is what the fluid is called ... The cat won't feel it, and it'll be fine as long as she's distracted. I think it's more scary for the HUMAN than it is for the animal - at least at first!
I agree completely. When I did this with Midnight, I was very surprised that she never even flinched when the needle went in. What bothered her was that the fluid was rather cool. If possible, warm the fluid up just a bit. Certainly not hot, and maybe not even up to her body temperature, but make it a little warmer than room temp. Soaking the bag in a sink of warm water for about a minute is often enough to raise its temperature to a more comfortable level.

Cats can't really comprehend why they suddenly feel cold stuff under their skin and it really kinda freaks them out. I found Midnight was much calmer if the fluid was warmer.

Surgical is right, though, it's much harder on us than on the cat. I was terrified I'd put the needle in too far and hurt her, but the worst I ever did was pull up a bit of skin, put the needle through one side and right out the other. I didn't even notice until I started the drip and my hand got wet. The vet made it look so easy! My hand was a little unsteady the first couple times, but it got easier from there.

If things don't go well at first, take a break and come back to it a little later. It's much harder on all involved if you're frustrated and/or the cat is freaked out. It is definitely a two person job, however. :)

Hang in there, and take care!

maximus

12-17-2003, 07:08 AM

get a dog :mrgreen:

I hope you're talking to PetiteFlower. This would have been a good time to use the "quote" feature, as if you were talking to me (the original poster of the thread), that would sound REALLY insensitive.

Ah. Pardon my ignorance. When I am not using quote, I assume people understand that I am replying to the post directly above my post. Sorry.

PetiteFlower

12-17-2003, 07:03 PM

Kati Compton

12-17-2003, 09:49 PM

I've found that the best thing is to just get a bag from the vet (lactated ringers is what the fluid is called), and hook it above the spot where you'll be giving the fluid. Put the cat on a towel, and get your husband to pat the cat, distract her, etc. Then just hold up the scruff of the neck, slip the needle in, and start the drip. The cat won't feel it, and it'll be fine as long as she's distracted.

It wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. But I did it a little too far back, so she yelped just a little when the needle went in. I warned her that I might not be very good at it the first time, but that the second time I'd be better. Hopefully she listened.

Kati Compton

12-17-2003, 09:51 PM

Ah. Pardon my ignorance. When I am not using quote, I assume people understand that I am replying to the post directly above my post. Sorry.

No problem. I figured this was probably the case (either that, or you didn't read my message closely and only saw "cat").

I just wanted to point out that it can make it a bit confusing if it's not clear.

Kati Compton

12-17-2003, 09:52 PM

Have you thought about trying to force feed your kitty water? With a syringe or maybe even a bottle or something? If dehydration is the cause, maybe that will make her feel a little better, and get her used to the taste of the water.

I'm of course not a vet I just thought this might make sense.

I hope kitty is feeling better soon!

We will probably try that in the next few days (with a water bottle that has a hole drilled in the top that I already made). I was giving her 2-3cc's of watered-down chicken broth per feeding. But that's on the off days of injecting her.

Korlon

12-17-2003, 09:57 PM

Kati Compton

12-17-2003, 10:00 PM

I've heard that products like this (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006F74L/103-9329898-7979040?v=glance) can help with getting cats to drink more.

These fountains will filter the water and circulate it to keep it from growing stale and stagnant. My cat also loves to play with the one my family has when we go to visit.

Yep. We just got one and set it up. She doesn't feel like drinking from it yet, at least in part because she's so stuffed with all the food I'm shoving into her.

karen

12-17-2003, 10:52 PM

PetiteFlower

12-18-2003, 12:19 AM

Well yeah I figure I'll be ready for kids and dogs at about the same point in my life--not yet!

drop

12-19-2003, 09:56 PM

Still worry about your cat's hungry strike. Has food and water intake gotten back to normal?

Kati Compton

12-19-2003, 10:28 PM

Sorry - I've been busy and haven't had time to post an update.

Daphne's blood test Thursday said that she's not getting worse (which was the real goal for this week), and that some of her levels are actually improving (but still very dangerous). So the jaundice is probably just her skin catching up with the previous bad liver levels. The vet seemed much more interested in the blood results than her skin color.

So that's the good news.

Last night was horrible, though. HORRIBLE. I did a 11:30pm feeding, and that took 40 minutes. I did a 2am feeding, and that took 45 minutes, and then she promptly puked up EVERYTHING I'd put in her. Remember that the cure depends on getting as many calories as possible into her. So that was really discouraging.

Then I did the next feeding at 4:15am (you can tell by these times how much sleep I've been getting the past week). That took an HOUR because she was being so stubborn. After I finished, at least she kept it down. But as I was setting the alarm for 6:55, I broke down completely. After one of the previous feedings, Jason insisted that he'd take Daphne to the vet in the morning (8am appt) without me so I could sleep an extra hour.

So I was so frustrated and overtired and feeling guilty that I wasn't going to the vet with Daphne... But at the same time I couldn't bear the thought of one more feeding. Then I felt more guilty because this is life and death for her, and I'm here worried about sleeping.

I asked my husband to have the vet feed her while she was there instead of me doing the 7am feeding. The food would be 1.5 hours late, but I wouldn't have to do it. Which was all I was able to think about. So that's what Jason did. And it's a good thing too, because it turns out that, while what I was doing was "effective", it wasn't the most efficient way to get the food in her. I had ASKED if I was doing it right, describing what I was doing, and the vet said that was right. But it wasn't.

So the other good news is that a feeding now takes me about 15 minutes. AND now my husband can help me and do some of the feedings to give me a few times off per day/night. It's just such a relief... I wanted to do the feedings myself at first because I felt I was better able to be "patient but firm", and then when I started to really *need* him to help, she had gotten more and more difficult to the point where I couldn't wish it on anyone, so I was still doing it myself. But now my husband can spell me here and there! Yaaaay!

Morale is a bit up here. We're still all *very* tired, though. Every 2.5 hours around the clock is rough on all of us (including Daphne).

Now the main problem is that she's puking 1-2x per day, wasting those calories. It's gotten worse since the vet gave us a super-high calorie food (about 2x the calories for the same volume as the food we were previously using). We were using the old food and the new food in a 1:1 ratio. But we're thinking maybe we were increasing her calories too dramatically. So we'll try 2:1 and see if there's improvement.

Oh, and the vet gave us a liver anti-inflammatory drug - 1 pill per day - that I have to give her in the morning by shoving it down her throat, so she's got that, an appetite stimulator 2x per day mashed in food, and the sub-cutaneous fluids we're doing every other day. In addition to the food we're giving her. Hopefully with all this care, she'll continue to be stable, and will continue to improve.

We just want our Daphne back.

drop

12-19-2003, 11:04 PM

That is just so rough on all of you!

Nevertheless, 15 minutes is a huge improvement over 45 min of struggling. Man, and I thought oral cleaning was difficult. I think all three of you are marvelous.

I wonder why the pharmaceutical companies don't just produce liquid type of medicine for pets. My boss' cat spat the pills and gagged if she so much as tasted foreign object in her food. My boss, bless her soul, had to take the pills to a special place to have them coated with fish-smelling coating. Didn't work though :?. The cat still wouldn't have any of those pills :evil: .

Kati Compton

12-20-2003, 08:51 PM

I wonder why the pharmaceutical companies don't just produce liquid type of medicine for pets. My boss' cat spat the pills and gagged if she so much as tasted foreign object in her food. My boss, bless her soul, had to take the pills to a special place to have them coated with fish-smelling coating. Didn't work though :?. The cat still wouldn't have any of those pills :evil: .

Liquid medications would be absorbed all at once, instead of over time. Or would be absorbed in the throat when it should be the tummy, etc. There *usually* are reasons why medications are delivered the way they are delivered. Otherwise no one would have to get shots. ;)

Dave Beauvais

01-08-2004, 08:48 AM

Any news on Daphne, Kati? I'm hoping she's recovering nicely and that you and your husband have been able to return to a more normal sleep schedule. :)

On a slightly related note, I'm pleased to announce that I have two new members of my family: two seven-month-old kittens named Misty and Callie. We got them the weekend after Christmas and still only one of the two seems to be even remotely comfortable around humans. Misty is still quite skittish, but will actually approach us if we move slowly and extend our hand to her; Callie scurries to the nearest bed, couch, or other piece of furniture she can hide under. We're hoping that as they become more comfortable in the house and with our presence, that they'll react better toward us. Time will tell. They are both eating and drinking pretty well, which is good.

Photos--once I'm able to take some--will be posted in this thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4193).

Kati Compton

01-08-2004, 05:32 PM

Any news on Daphne, Kati? I'm hoping she's recovering nicely and that you and your husband have been able to return to a more normal sleep schedule. :)
Yes - we're down to 2-3 feedings per day, and have to give her fluids just once more. Her blood levels weren't quite normal yet at the last vet visit. We have another next week Wednesday, at which point we're hoping it'll all be normal.

Of course, she gained a pound from all the force-feedings...

"New Daphne-Cat! Now with 10% more cat!"

Good luck with your kittens! Try luring them out from under the bed with some string...

PetiteFlower

01-08-2004, 07:41 PM

Kati--that's wonderful news :) Hope she is back to her old self soon!

Dave--Cats need to warm up to a new environment slowly, so it's helpful if you can keep them in one room only for a while. Put some boxes or other things for them to hide in, but also that you can get them out of easily too, in the room, along with the food and water on one side and the litter as far away from the food as possible. Spend as much time in there with them as you can but give them time to explore on their own too. It's also important to get them socialized now while they're still small. If you allow the skittish one to keep running away all the time now, she'll only get more afraid as she gets older. Get her used to being held and played with by humans now and your life will be MUCH easier later, trust me! Say, the first time you need to take her to the vet......

You can do this slowly, start with just sitting in the room, get a toy(anything dangly hanging from a stick is good, there's lots of kinds at the pet stores) and try to entice them to play. Go slow, don't force her, just get her used to your presence. Food helps too! Cats respond very well to treats :) And I mean kitty treats not bits of people food :) But once you get her to approach you, try to pet her a little, get her used to that, then later you can work up to holding and lap-sitting.

The other thing I would suggest getting them used to now is nail clipping. Kitties claws get very sharp and they can scratch you by accident, if you trim their nails regularly though, they won't be as sharp and it should prevent accidental injury. It won't keep them from shredding your furniture if they set their mind to it, but it will keep you from bleeding if they run across your bare feet or get too excited while you're playing! Get a pair of kitty nail clippers from the pet store and hold them gently and trim them once a week. Do it in a well lit area so you can see where the pink part starts; don't cut the pink part or they will bleed and it will hurt! Don't forget the 5th claw that's higher up on the leg! I've found only the front ones get really sharp so don't worry about the back ones. After a few months you can stop doing it so often, I just said once a week so you can get them used to it, this is something that if you try to start doing it after they're older, they'll never sit still for!

Man I didn't mean to write a book there.....good luck with your new kitties! Post pics :)

Kati Compton

01-08-2004, 11:22 PM

Even if the cats are declawed, get them used to having paws and tails touched, and being picked up. Cats are usually resistant at first to these types of things, but it can really help at odd times if they're used to it, such as if you have to examine them for an injury.

My other cat is really bad at remembering I'm not a tree, so has a tendency to try to "jump down" from my arms, using her claws on my chest as leverage. I learned to just hold her hind feet in one hand while holding her, and she got used to it, and now I don't have to wear turtlenecks all the time. ;) "What did your husband DO to you???"

Dave Beauvais

01-09-2004, 02:13 AM

Dave--Cats need to warm up to a new environment slowly, so it's helpful if you can keep them in one room only for a while. ...
We kept them in a bathroom for about a week or so, going in to spend time with them as much as possible. That bathroom is the largest room in the house that we can completely close off and which didn't have a bunch of stuff that could be broken or gotten into easily by curious felines. We took that time to fix up the house, put some things away, and rearrange some stuff to make it harder for the cats to get into. We realize how seriously spoiled we were by Midnight. She never jumped up onto tables or kitchen counters, very rarely hid under furniture, and never really did anything "bad." These girls, on the other hand, are going to be a handful. :) I walked in the bathroom once after hearing a loud noise and found Misty on top of the glass shower doors, which are about seven feet high. I wish there was a Web cam or something in there because I'd really like to have seen how that one happened. :) One or both of them have also discovered the joy that is the toilet paper roll. Several mornings, we've opened the door to find one of them curled up proudly next to a pile of toilet paper.

We are now letting them roam around the house during the day and putting them back in the bathroom at night. We took the last of the Christmas decorations down yesterday after having to extract Misty from the top of the Christmas tree. (Another thing Midnight never did in all her nineteen years.) We'll be letting them roam freely at night starting this weekend. I need to find a secure cover for the top of my fish bowl since they'll be unsupervised at night.

Misty has warmed up to us quite a bit, and will actually come up to me on her own for some attention, but is still rather timid when anyone makes any sudden movements. Callie very rarely comes close to anyone by herself, and if anyone even looks like they might make a move toward her--even on the other side of the room--she cowers away in a corner or darts under the nearest couch. If we come toward her, she hisses at us. The funny thing is that if I can pet her once she's in a corner or under the couch, she seems to be okay with it. She'll also curl up on a bed or in a chair beside me, but only if I can manage to pick her up and put her there before she darts away. The two cats are biological sisters, but their personalities are vastly different.

We're not entirely sure what their lives were like for the first five months or so. They were the offspring of an outdoor cat who was owned by an elderly gentleman who passed away several months ago. As his family was cleaning out his house, they put the pregnant mother and abandoned her. Eventually she gave birth and the kittens wandered off. They were eventually all caught in humane traps and were kept in cages at a shelter for about a month before we adopted these two.

The other thing I would suggest getting them used to now is nail clipping. Kitties claws get very sharp and they can scratch you by accident, if you trim their nails regularly though, they won't be as sharp and it should prevent accidental injury. ...
Callie hasn't scratched me a single time, but Misty likes to scratch and gently bite while playing. My hands have quite a few small scratches on them because she got a little aggressive while playing a couple times. When she starts doing that and getting carried away, I just substitute a yarn ball for my hand and go nurse my wounds. :)

Midnight had all of her claws removed when she was a kitten, but I was far too young to know any better or to disagree with my parents. I am very much against declawing (http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm) now and am strongly objecting to other family members' desire to have these two kittens declawed in the front. Yes, they may damage some furniture once in a while, but declawing is inhumane as far as I'm concerned; it's akin to cutting off human fingertips. Imagine trying to grip, type, write, or many other things which come naturally to us without fingertips and that's what life is like for a declawed cat.

Jeff Rutledge

01-09-2004, 04:08 AM

I am very much against declawing now and am strongly objecting to other family members' desire to have these two kittens declawed in the front. Yes, they may damage some furniture once in a while, but declawing is inhumane as far as I'm concerned

I agree completely. I also believe it's the easy way out in a lot of cases (not all of course). In most cases, training can save your furniture.

In fact, if you adopt a cat from the Calgary Humane Society you're required to sign that you won't have it declawed. They consider it maiming.

Kati Compton

01-09-2004, 04:16 AM

I agree completely. I also believe it's the easy way out in a lot of cases (not all of course). In most cases, training can save your furniture.

In fact, if you adopt a cat from the Calgary Humane Society you're required to sign that you won't have it declawed. They consider it maiming.
Interesting. Our cats came front-paw declawed. One cat I'm quite glad that's the case. Unfortunately, she's rather...dumb... Sweet, but not a brain cell in her head. Maybe that's why she loves me unconditionally. ;) But she's the one that just doesn't realize claws hurt people. And we've tried training her. She cannot learn anything. Such as "no, you can't go in the refrigerator". That's a constant battle.

Cat pokes head in refrigerator.
Person says "no" and pushes cat away.
Cat pokes head in refrigerator.
Person yells "no" and swats cat.
Cat pokes head in refrigerator.
Person yells "no", grabs cat, (gently) throws cat 6' away from fridge.
Cat runs back and pokes head in refrigerator.
Person says "fine" and lets door close (gently) on cat.
Cat gets confused by door, and runs away.

This is a battle I have had 1-2 times a day for 3-4 years.

The other cat learns VERY well. Unfortunately, that means she learns to not do things when we're looking. ;) She's extremely specific in her understanding of rules. "At least 2 feet on the floor when in the kitchen at all times when people are present. Otherwise, jump in sink."

PetiteFlower

01-09-2004, 07:27 AM

Well....

I won't have my kitties declawed. But I won't immediately judge people who do, either. Some people have to in order to get the cat into their apartment, other people have small children and don't want them to get scratched(accidentally or otherwise). And my vet did tell me that the procedure is more humane now then it used to be, they make sure to give the kitties plenty of pain meds afterwards so they don't wonder why it hurts to walk. I just think it should be a last resort.

But that's why I advised the nail clipping :) Kitty scratches hurt and heal slowly, their claws are ALL kinds of dirty and full of germs, better for everyone if you clip them so they're blunt. After all, they usually don't MEAN to hurt us when they do! It's safe and painless for them too :)

The books say not to let them bite on your fingers, even in play, just because it's a bad habit to let them get into....give them a toy to bite on but tell them No when they try to get your fingers. I admit I didn't follow this strictly, but I tried :) Anyway that's what the books say.

dMores

01-09-2004, 04:20 PM

from what i've read and heard, declawing is not inhumane. it is dangerous, however, if the cat has a life outside of the house/appartement since it cannot defend itself anymore.
cats that are always kept indoors don't need this protection.

so personally, i don't feel that declawing is a bad thing alltogether, since it's something that will make the cat-human interaction safer, especially if there are children and other animals around.

what i absolutely oject to is when dog-owners cut their puppie's tail and ears off, or try to mold them into something they find visually pleasing.
i've heard it is forbidden in austria, a few months ago a person came into our family's store with a dog who had his ears and tail in bandages. i got so mad, i told him that he's a sadistic idiot and threw him out of the store.

same with the bastard that came in and bragged about how cool it was to go on a "safari" in romania and shoot wolves.
i wasn't there, but this time my dad took care of the kicking-out.

oh sorry, i wandered off-topic. i just wanted to say, treat animals respectfully.

Pat Logsdon

01-09-2004, 04:49 PM

from what i've read and heard, declawing is not inhumane.
I'll have to disagree with you there - "declawing" is a nice word for "amputation". They don't just remove the claws, they remove the entire first joint of the cat's toes. That's like cutting off the ends of your fingers at the joint behind the nail. Not a particularly nice thing to do to anyone or anything, regardless of the reasons.

Here's a good article on declawing (http://www.felinefuture.com/catcare/declawing.php).

Mitch D

01-10-2004, 01:38 AM

denivan

01-11-2004, 11:48 PM

what i absolutely oject to is when dog-owners cut their puppie's tail and ears off, or try to mold them into something they find visually pleasing.
i've heard it is forbidden in austria, a few months ago a person came into our family's store with a dog who had his ears and tail in bandages. i got so mad, i told him that he's a sadistic idiot and threw him out of the store.

actually, sizing down a dog's tail can be a good thing. Friends of mine are dogbreeders and go hunting with their dogs. These dogs have pretty long
tails, so when they go snooping into the bushes etc. , thorns get stuck in their tail and can start to infect, causing pain. Off course I am completely
against cutting of a tail completely because it look 'cool', but making it shorter so that the dog wouldn't injure itself is fine by me.

Ivan

Prevost

01-12-2004, 08:04 PM

For any cat owners out there... it's really bad if your cat staves him/herself.

I recently moved, and one cat was upset about it and stopped eating. But in cats, this can actually cause liver damage after even only a few days. So she's in really bad shape. Only cure is to force-feed her lots of food and hope the liver repairs itself. Not fun for either of us.

If we had known it was such an issue, we'd have taken her to the vet sooner. We just thought she'd snap out of her depression.

So I'm passing on our newfound knowledge in the hopes that other owners can avoid this.
How far away did you move?

Frequently, we take Lonely in a trip to a house about 340 km from home and, although he does eat less while there, he never stops eating. So perhaps it also deals with how far you take the cat...

Kati Compton

01-12-2004, 08:28 PM

How far away did you move?

Frequently, we take Lonely in a trip to a house about 340 km from home and, although he does eat less while there, he never stops eating. So perhaps it also deals with how far you take the cat...
Only a few hours. But the problem is that the water is different, and she didn't like the softened water. She stopped drinking, and dehydrated cats don't eat.

dMores

01-12-2004, 08:56 PM

actually, sizing down a dog's tail can be a good thing. Friends of mine are dogbreeders and go hunting with their dogs. well, i know there are hunting dogs with cut tails, like pointers. but it's obvious that there is almost no breed of "fight dogs" where a tail is in the "specifications". it was a way to make the dog more resistant against attacks from the opponent.

i didn't know that declawing is actually amputation. i mean, removing the first joint is pretty harsh! i have changed my mind, thank you for clearing that up for me.

GoldKey

01-12-2004, 09:06 PM

We had our first cat (who died a few years ago) declawed when we first took him in as an adult cat. He did not have any problems afterwards. Since then we have read about what declawing actually involves and have left both our current cats with their full claws. Clip them regularly and provide plenty of OK things for them to scratch on and discipline them when they scratch on inappropriate items.

Anyone have any creative and effective ways of discipling cats? I use a can of compressed air from a distance of a few feet. After a few times of this, just the slightest hiss from the can stops whatever badness they are getting into. Also effective (and fun) is an Airzooka (look on thinkgeek.com).

denivan

01-12-2004, 09:33 PM

Anyone have any creative and effective ways of discipling cats?

I do it like a cat's mother does (I think). Whenever my cat has done something bad, I grab her neck skin. Immediately when you do that, she lets herself go limp (something about instinct I read somewhere). I lay her down on her side, still holding her by the neck skin, and yell a loud ' NO !'. It's good to be consistent in what you yell, for my part you can yell 'FLOWERS' each time , as long as it's allways the same thing ;)

Anyway, after a while I just have to raise my voice, say NO , and they know they've done something wrong.

GoldKey

01-12-2004, 09:39 PM

PetiteFlower

01-13-2004, 12:08 AM

Compressed air can be dangerous though, don't spray it near the face, ears, or butt. Spray bottle of water is safer for the kitty, though maybe not your furniture. Most important thing my cat book said about using the bottle is make sure they don't see you spray them. You want them to associate the unpleasant response(spray) with what they are doing, not with YOU who's spraying them.

Discipline is iffy with cats, because unless you're watching them all the time, you could end up just teaching them not to do bad things in front of you. If you want to keep them off the couch/counter/whatever then you should cover them with mats with double-stick tape on the top when you're not home, at least until they learn that the couch/counter/whatever doesn't feel good to jump on. Double stick tape is also effective on deterring unwanted scratching. For chewing, there's a spray called "apple bitter" that you can use, good to use that if you have any plants that are poisonous to kitties. Basically if you can find a way to deter them from the bad behavior that does NOT require you to be present at the time of the infraction, that's preferred :)

As for moving making cats unhappy....I think it depends on the temprament of the cats too. Some are much more adaptible to new situations; others freak out. I got my kitties a week apart, one was 8 weeks the other was 12 when I got them, but their personalities are totally different! One of mine hid and hardly ate for 3 weeks after I moved, I had to drag him from his hiding place to get him to explore and get comfy with the new digs, the other was fine almost right away. Luck of the draw I guess :) Like kids kinda!

GoldKey

01-13-2004, 12:32 AM

Compressed air can be dangerous though, don't spray it near the face, ears, or butt. Spray bottle of water is safer for the kitty, though maybe not your furniture.

I don't even need to hit them with the spray. The sound is enough to scare them now. My cats have no fear of a spray bottle of water. I got one of them once with the sprayer from the sink to no avail. Yet, try to give them a bath!

maximus

01-13-2004, 02:16 AM

Interesting. You guys have so much 'peripherals' for your pets. Down here, all I have is a pet hair-scrub and pet shampoo :) I dont even know the water spray trick until now. This site is really the ultimate source of knowledge ! :werenotworthy:

Prevost

01-13-2004, 01:46 PM

Anyone have any creative and effective ways of discipling cats? I use a can of compressed air from a distance of a few feet. After a few times of this, just the slightest hiss from the can stops whatever badness they are getting into. Also effective (and fun) is an Airzooka (look on thinkgeek.com).
Some breeders herearound recommend to keep on hand a bottle with water and sprayer. Spraying water on the cat will IMMEDIATLY stop the current behavior...guess why! :mrgreen:

I think that it also must be cheaper than a can of compressed air or any fancy device (no joking on you Gold) Try it and let us know!

GoldKey

01-13-2004, 01:53 PM

Some breeders herearound recommend to keep on hand a bottle with water and sprayer. Spraying water on the cat will IMMEDIATLY stop the current behavior...guess why! :mrgreen:

I think that it also must be cheaper than a can of compressed air or any fancy device (no joking on you Gold) Try it and let us know!

As I said above, my cats have no fear of a spray of water. The good thing about the air can, etc is that they have become conditioned to associate the sound with the can and just even shaking the can or doing a brief spray from across the room will stop them.

PetiteFlower

01-13-2004, 08:17 PM

Yeah it really depends on the cat. One of mine hates the sprayer, the other doesn't really care. Both of them respond to being called pretty well though so if I see them doing something I don't like, I usually just attract their attention away from it and play with them for a bit and then they forget what they were doing before :)

Pat Logsdon

01-13-2004, 08:43 PM

The good thing about the air can, etc is that they have become conditioned to associate the sound with the can and just even shaking the can or doing a brief spray from across the room will stop them.
Our dog (border collie/sheltie mix) is the same way - a few squirts several years ago with a regular water bottle/sprayer, and now you just have to SHOW her the bottle, and she stops what she's doing immediately and slinks away. :D

ux4484

01-13-2004, 10:16 PM

Kati,

I didn't see this thread, and rather than respond to all the other respondents, I'll just respond to your original post. First off, I'm very sorry. I know what you're going through, 18 years ago when our first Cat died from FELV two of our other cats (inoculated and FELV negative) were very depressed and would not eat.....though they would drink. Previously we fed them ONLY Iams hard food with a supplementary coat perscription added the food. After "Kitty" died, We started changing their litter more often (three times a week for a month) and gave them more individualized attention. Another thing we did was to "talk" to them as if the other cat was still around (even calling his name when the food was put out), while a tad cruel, it did get them paying more attention to their surroundings. They were so upset they would walk the (then) apartment at night "calling" their friend they missed so much. When this happend, we would get up and hand feed them some soft food which they did start eating.
Try to get something that smells like your old place and make it into a toy or security item for your cat. Our vet was more concerned about the water than the food, our strike lasted almost a week, but once they started feeling poorly physically, they did start eating and had no further health problems for it.

Sadly, we no longer have cats as the kids are very allergic.

Prevost

01-14-2004, 02:03 AM

At least here I find lots of people that actually LOVE cats.

Here in Panama, very few ones own cats, they prefer dogs (I believe they get them as status symbols in many cases)

An also I see cats are at least as popular as PocketPCs here!

ctmagnus

01-14-2004, 02:25 AM

An also I see cats are at least as popular as PocketPCs here!

Except cats have the ability to cause pain when pocketed ;)

maximus

01-14-2004, 02:54 AM

An also I see cats are at least as popular as PocketPCs here!

Except cats have the ability to cause pain when pocketed ;)

You will need a pocket big enough to do that though ... a scott C-vest ! (cat-vest) ?

Brad Adrian

01-14-2004, 03:53 AM

You will need a pocket big enough to do that though ... a scott C-vest ! (cat-vest) ?
Hey, hey, HEY! You best NOT be dissin' my vest...!

Pat Logsdon

01-14-2004, 05:29 AM

You will need a pocket big enough to do that though ... a scott C-vest ! (cat-vest) ?
Hey, hey, HEY! You best NOT be dissin' my vest...!
http://www.mybunny.org/images/ebay/kittenvest.jpg

:mrgreen:

ctmagnus

01-14-2004, 05:34 AM

http://www.mybunny.org/images/ebay/kittenvest.jpg

:mrgreen:

There's also a large pocket in the back. ;)

Brad Adrian

01-14-2004, 06:06 AM

GREAT picture, Surgical Snack. However, I keep hearing that old song ringing through my head...

"Too much time on my hands..."

maximus

01-14-2004, 07:16 AM

:rotfl:

Awesome image there. ha ha ha. Thanks. I needed that badly in such a gloomy afternoon like this.

Kati Compton

01-25-2004, 04:37 AM

I pronounce Daphne (the cat) cured.

Today she was "singing" with music. This evening she dragged off the ribbon to kill it (howling all the way with the "joy" of her catch... I think...) and did her usual "I must get every inch of this ribbon into the box with me and howl" move.

So she's acting normal.

Well, for her anyway...

Dave Beauvais

01-25-2004, 05:20 AM

Yay! I'm happy to hear that! Thanks for the update.

In the Beauvais household, Misty and Callie have really warmed up to us a lot. They are both curled up together on my bed--not under it--as I type this, which is actually the first time they've done that which I'm aware of. The enjoy sleeping on a couple of the chairs in the living room and have really taken to the "Kitty Barn (http://www.appealingitems.com/kitty-barn-play-structure.html)" I bought a couple weeks ago. They seem to really enjoy running through it and scratching the carpet it's covered with. I do need to find a taller scratching post, though, since both cats seem to want to stretch higher while scratching than the Kitty Barn allows.

They still have play habits that seriously conflict with their humans' schedules, however. Nearly every night for the past two weeks, they wake everyone up by running up and down (and up and down, and up and down, and up and down) the stairs, through bedrooms, around and over furniture, etc. at between 3:00 AM and 4:00 AM. It's maddening, but I don't get mad at them; they're cats, after all. :) Both of them woke me up by getting into a little wrestling match at 3:30 AM last Tuesday morning... on me. They were jumping over me, pounding their feet against my back and arms, flipping their tails in my face, pushing up under the pillows, etc. I have one pretty deep scratch on my hand from Callie as she vaulted over me. On the bright side, I guess that means they're comfortable and secure enough around me that they can play. :)

Callie will still back away from people, but she's pretty good around me. If I put my hand down, she'll run up and push her head against it. Both of them will rub all over my legs and walk around them, but Misty is truly an "under-foot" cat. I'm beginning to wish we'd named her Shadow because she follows so closely behind me--sometimes in front of me--that she's just like a shadow. :)

I've got some photos, but haven't gotten around to posting them yet. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow.