Canadian Copyright Board Freezes Private Copying Levies for 2003 and 2004

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004nr-e.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004nr-e.html</a><br /><br /></div>Almost two years ago, I posted an impassionate plea to my fellow Canadians <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=987">regarding a levy on recordable media</a>. Well, it's finally come to pass, and like most things related to Canadian government, they half-listended to us.<br /><br />Here's the good news: "Today's decision freezes all existing private copying levies at their current levels. As a result, the current levies of 29¢ on audio cassette tapes of 40 minutes or longer (no levy applies to tapes of shorter length), 21¢ on CD-Rs and CD-RWs and 77¢ on CD-R Audio, CD-RW Audio and MiniDiscs will remain in effect until the end of 2004...The Board denied the Canadian Private Copying Collective's (CPCC) request to establish a levy on blank DVDs, removable memory cards and removable micro hard drives. It finds that the evidence available at this time does not clearly demonstrate that these recording media are ordinarily used by individuals for the purpose of copying music."<br /><br />Here's the bad news: "The Board also sets for the first time a levy on non-removable memory permanently embedded in digital audio recorders (such as MP3 players) at $2 for each recorder with a memory capacity of up to 1 Gigabyte (Gb), $15 for each recorder with memory capacity of more than 1 Gb and up to 10 Gbs, and $25 for each recorder with memory capacity of more than 10 GBs."<br /><br />All in all, I guess it could have been worse. The good news is that memory cards for your Pocket PCs will not be taxed as part of this decision.

[Mike Temporale]

Crap like this really pisses me off. Last I heard they have yet to pay anything to the artists, and I have yet to use a CDR to copy anything other than data files. Some of us use CDR's as a means of backing up important files, as well as transfering them to clients.

:twisted:

[Gerard]

good frikkin' grief. As if the conversion of US prices to Canadian dollars didn't hurt enough. As if the 7% GST on every damned thing but food wasn't a kick in the pants sufficient to abuse us at every turn. You know what this will promote most of all? Trips South. Just like First Nations tobacco, there'll be more and more recordable media on the black/grey market. I can see it now, some guy with a hockey bag strolls by the Starbucks every half hour... "hey, buddy, got some good bud here... or hey, want some discs? got 10's or 50's, all kinds, cheap!"

[Jason Dunn]

Some of us use CDR's as a means of backing up important files, as well as transfering them to clients.

Yeah, I know what you mean - 99% of my CD use goes towards making data CDs, burning photo CDs, or VCD/SVCD of events I've taken video footage of.

[donkthemagicllama]

On the bright side, downloading music for free is still legal.

I read in some other forum that because it's a levy and not a tax customs can't charge you for it.

So if you order CD-R's online from the 'states, you'll pay GST, and perhaps some duty, but not the levy. Anyone know if that's accurate?

[Mike Temporale]

I read an article on CBC.ca last week that talked about implmenting a tax that the ISP would have to pay for every member they have, regardless if they download music or copywrited material using their connection.

Here's the link --> http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/yourspace/internet_royalty.html

If this happens, then we'll be paying 2 or 3 times for download a song. You would pay the surplus charge on blank media, your ISP would transfer that extra fee along to their customers, and you would pay a surcharge for the device you copy music onto.

This really sucks when you don't download copywrited material!!! :twisted:

[manywhere]

Here's the bad news: "The Board also sets for the first time a levy on non-removable memory permanently embedded in digital audio recorders (such as MP3 players) at $2 for each recorder with a memory capacity of up to 1 Gigabyte (Gb), $15 for each recorder with memory capacity of more than 1 Gb and up to 10 Gbs, and $25 for each recorder with memory capacity of more than 10 GBs."
Ouch! That stinks! :evil: We haven't (yet, I'm afraid) gotten the 'taxing' to include MP3 storage.

Well, you (read: Canadians) are not alone... Finland's got pretty high prices. (BTW, we call it the "casette-tax"; levy just happens to be the Finnish word for "disc" :oops: )

FYI: All cents below are Euro cents, unless otherwise noted...

The casette-taxes for storage media bought in Finland are:
0,76 cents/minute for imagecasettes
0,50 cents/minute for audiocasettes
0,50 cents/minute for audio CD-R & RW
0,50 cents/minute for Minidiscs
0,25 cents/minute for computer CD-R & RW

Recordable video-DVD-discs (DVD-R/RW video, DVD-RAM, DVD+RW) 0,76 cents for every minutes average storage availability for video (or something).

Computer-DVD-discs (DVD-R/RW data, DVD-RAM, DVD+RW) the tax is divided in two parts: 0,13 cents for every minute of average audio storage AND 0,19 cents for every mintute that its possible to store images.


Add to the equation that one Euro is 1.61719 Canadian $, and we got more to pay! :cry:

[Rob Borek]

Crap like this really pisses me off. Last I heard they have yet to pay anything to the artists, and I have yet to use a CDR to copy anything other than data files. Some of us use CDR's as a means of backing up important files, as well as transfering them to clients.

:twisted:

Yep... that's the main reason CD-R/RW levies are considerably lower than cassette or CD-Audio levies.

All in all, the decision wasn't bad - the levies were frozen for the most part, and only non-removable memory in a music player is subject to a levy.

But, hey, if you want to get that iPod, now's the time to buy it before the levy comes into effect next year!

[rudolph]

..interesting. I buy cdr's for about 33cents each (at least that's how much it came to when i bought 100 about five months ago), so they really only cost 33-21 = 12 cents each eh?
But 33 cents is still good tho. I use cd/dvd rw media now... cdr media makes too much garbage once you're done with it, and if it was cheaper, it would make even more garbage.

anyway, i think that is pretty reasonable... except i think the $15 and $25 is a bit much for the 1+gb audio players.

[Kati Compton]

I wonder if people are going to start selling 9GB players instead of 10GB players...

[rudolph]

or they could call the 10gb players 9.8gb players ... or whatever the actual size is when you calculate the size properly with 2^20 bytes in a mb instead of the 1000000 bytes storage manufacturers use (or whatever the proper calculation is)

:D sorry.. i had to use this little reindeer icon

[karen]

In the CIPS position paper on this topic, we also added a reason why we didn't support the levy:

This levy is just for music. There's nothing to stop the MPAA (or whatever movie lobby group) from asking for their own levy for movies that are copied, then the BSA for software, then the Newpaper publishers for all the news articles copied, then TV producers for their stuf...etc.

[mr_Ray]

Am I to assume from this that they are giving you their fulling blessing to download whatever music you want and burn it to CD? After all, you're effectively paying for exactly that (the issue of the artists not actually getting the money notwithstanding).

If you weren't downloading music and burning it to CDs, you're really being forced to pay for a service that you're not using - that's morally wrong, isn't it?

OK, so it's not as clear cut as that but it's surely something to consider.

[karen]

Am I to assume from this that they are giving you their fulling blessing to download whatever music you want and burn it to CD? After all, you're effectively paying for exactly that (the issue of the artists not actually getting the money notwithstanding).

No, the levy decisions in the past specifically said that this levy is to compensate the IP holders for legal copies only. Basically, we Canucks are paying for fair use only. Sharing and piracy is not covered. The IP holders claimed they were experiencing damages because normally people would by a CD version and a cassette version if they wanted two format. But the advent of new technology meant that people weren't doing that any more. :lol:

If you weren't downloading music and burning it to CDs, you're really being forced to pay for a service that you're not using - that's morally wrong, isn't it?

OK, so it's not as clear cut as that but it's surely something to consider.

The got around that issue by calling it a levy, not a tax.

Karen

[dean_shan]

So you're telling me that you used to pay 21 cents on top of the retail price of the CD-R?

[mr_Ray]

Am I to assume from this that they are giving you their fulling blessing to download whatever music you want and burn it to CD? After all, you're effectively paying for exactly that (the issue of the artists not actually getting the money notwithstanding).

No, the levy decisions in the past specifically said that this levy is to compensate the IP holders for legal copies only. Basically, we Canucks are paying for fair use only. Sharing and piracy is not covered. The IP holders claimed they were experiencing damages because normally people would by a CD version and a cassette version if they wanted two format. But the advent of new technology meant that people weren't doing that any more. :lol:

If you weren't downloading music and burning it to CDs, you're really being forced to pay for a service that you're not using - that's morally wrong, isn't it?

OK, so it's not as clear cut as that but it's surely something to consider.

The got around that issue by calling it a levy, not a tax.

Karen

That is really really screwed. Having to pay to get a legal copy of something that you legally own? Woah...
Presumably your laws give you an option to claim back this levy if you use the media for non-crppy music purposes, of which there are thousands. Of the hundreds of CDRs that I go through, I think that I've burned a grand total of 4 music CDs - perhaps 0.5% at most.

As for the whole "people used to buy a CD and a cassette" nonsense and they now lose out here - well tough $£"%^. People used to buy coal to heat their houses and quills to write with. Shoud the coal and quill producers get my money because I use electric and biros?

Levy, tax, it amounts to the same thing - being forced to pay for a "crime" you may be comitting. If I'm paying for it, I might as well do it.

Sorry, I know I go on, but this is one thing that really gets to me :devilboy:

[cmariotti]

The way I see it...

I've spent about $15,000 on my CD Collection. The greedy bastards never once allowed me to buy a good CD at a good price.

The same thing with my DVD collection which is just as big.

The industry being "slow to the punch to adopt Digital" has been purposeful. The bulk of users are still buying CDs so the industry pretends it is getting hit badly because of digital pirating (requiring no hard numbers to back them up) and in turn get in on the digital storage racket without passing go. Heck, the government should tax storage then, it would eventually surpase the gas tax revenues.

Just as we are getting used to accepting this... (like we already are today), they suddenly they start to deploy pay per song / album on the internet. What took them so long? Don't convince yourself that they were just slow... no, they had lots of money and planned this out.

At $1.00 per song (at best), you do the math... 10 songs=$10...

A music CD used to cost less than $0.10 to produce. The largest costs would be in the shipping, packaging, distribution and the retailer's cut. These factors are eliminated completely. Yet, now they are making many times more than they used to for the same songs on CDs. Only you just helped them eliminate the middle man, costs, employment, etc...

It is a scam and I don't like being taken advantage of. That is why I've decided that I will no longer purchase CDs or DVDs. I will convert my whole collection to digital and sell my stuff. I'm done being played with.

I also think that being taxed on something you don't do, gives you the right to do what you weren't doing. If I'm being taxed because I'm stealing music and I'm not, then I'm going to start taking what I'm paying for.

Enough.

Now excuse me while I go to the movies. (ARGH!) 8O

[LarDude]

I read an article on CBC.ca last week that talked about implmenting a tax that the ISP would have to pay for every member they have, regardless if they download music or copywrited material using their connection.

Here's the link --> http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/yourspace/internet_royalty.html


I also read about this. Just ticks me off.

Maybe it's time to consider forming a Wi-Fi backbone(s) independent
of the ISPs, considering that the "new record" for 802.11b was set
several days ago at 82 miles in Utah (although there is some dispute
as to whether that was the longest distance ever achieved).

[ctmagnus]

"The Board also sets for the first time a levy on non-removable memory permanently embedded in digital audio recorders (such as MP3 players) at $2 for each recorder with a memory capacity of up to 1 Gigabyte (Gb), $15 for each recorder with memory capacity of more than 1 Gb and up to 10 Gbs, and $25 for each recorder with memory capacity of more than 10 GBs."

At least that's much beeter that the $21/GB in the original thread you linked to. That would have stifled sales of all consumer-oriented mass storage in Canada.

[bigkingfun]

The got around that issue by calling it a levy, not a tax.

They not only got around that issue, but they charge tax on the levy itself. We pay the 7% GST plus any provincial tax on the actual levy.

One of the (many) things that bother me about the levy is the fact that it paints anyone who uses CDRs with a broad brush as pirates. By charging everyone who buys CDRs this levy, it is assuming we are all downloading and burning music illegally. The fact that there are many other uses for CDRs is irrelevant to them.

By the same logic, I should be able to charge a levy to the CPCC, and by extension all the artists they are "protecting", every time I buy a CD that turns out to be a dud. They should all be responsible to me for one artist that puts out a bad CD.

I've had plenty of bad CD purchases over the years, so I'll be expecting a cheque for levies owed any day :roll:

[donkthemagicllama]

It DOES make it legal to copy music in Canada. Even if you don't own the original.

I can borrow a friend's music CD, make a copy of it and give the original back. This is completely legal in Canada.

Most interpretations of the law also include downloading MP3's. So, it's legal to download all the mp3's you want in Canada, regardless of whether or not you own the original.

It isn't legal to send mp3's to someone else though. That's not covered.

See for yourself if you don't believe me.
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c19992000fs-e.html

[dean_shan]

So how much does one CD-R (if you buy it in a 100 spool) cost in Canada cost? And what is this GST you guys are talking about?

[donkthemagicllama]

According to memoryexpress.com (the place to get computer stuff in Calgary), you can get a 100-pack of CD-Rs for $28.95.

GST is Goods and Services Tax, which is essentially 7% tax on everything (there's some exemptions, but not many... mostly food items).

Unless you live in Alberta (where Calgary is [PocketPCThought's home]), you also pay an additional 7-8% provincial sales tax (PST) on just about everything.

[Gerard]

Isn't that 7% GST the same GST which was given us by a 'Conservative' Prime Minister who bore a striking resemblence to Jay Leno? And isn't it the very same tax which was largely responsible for that miserable stinkin' so-and-so getting booted out, and a 'Liberal' Prime Minister who eats pepper out of one side of his face eventually getting elected, when he promised, in writing in the 'little red book', before the election, the tax which he would revoke as soon as possible?

Cretin is out, retired, finally, yesterday. After 3 terms as head of our country. 11 years, I think. Now another 'Liberal' is in the top chair, and do you think the GST is going to be dissolved? Not a chance. They tax people at work. They tax them at most stores, at the gas pumps, at the liquor store, at restaurants, just about everywhere there's sales taxes. And they wonder why people get a bit rowdy when the big cheeses come to town and talk about improving the economy. Oh, the economy in Ottawa is doing great, thanks. But at the CD store? Forget it, we're a bunch of damned thieves. We steal from legitimate artists like Celine Dion (oh, wait, I've never had more than 3 seconds of her music in my ears before I switch it off or run from the building in which it's playing, so I must be stealing from some other millionaire musician), unlike the fine folks in Parliament Hill, who never steal anything. No sir, they're a bunch of honest fellas. (Read the above with a Gordon Pinsent accent, as used on Red Green. Sounds almost funny that way.)