I'll never do it again..

[Vincent M Ferrari]

With few exceptions, none of you probably have any idea who I am. That's cool.

I just wanted to say it's good to be back.

About a month ago, I betrayed the PPC brotherhood and bought a Tungsten T3. I couldn't help it. It was so small and sleek and had all these wizbang features that I wanted.

Then it crashed.

And a week later it crashed again.

Then again a couple of days later.

Then one more time this morning.

It made me realize how much I really did miss my Axim. I had sacrificed Wifi for Bluetooth (not too big a deal, I only live in a one-bedroom apartment and BT gives me coverage in the entire apartment), and gave up a lot of apps I loved for the simplicity of the Palm Desktop and the included apps.

I AM NEVER CHANGING OS'S AGAIN.

End of discussion.

It's great to be back, I missed you all, and I look forward to discussing stuff with everyone all over again ;-)

[Godsongz]

Welcome Back!!! :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

Welcome home my prodigal son. :D

[JonnoB]

Another repentant soul is saved.

[Pat Logsdon]

Hallelujah, brother! Now pray 1 Our Bill and 3 Hail Steves and you're forgiven. :wink:

[Fishie]

I remember you, you scare me.

[Candygogo]

I was meant to read your post as I was going to do something similar :oops:
I was going to pick up a Clie GT50--but...but....it was on Sale!

Sorry I almost sinned...

[Don Tolson]

Then it crashed.

And a week later it crashed again.

Then again a couple of days later.

Then one more time this morning.



Interesting... one of the saws I hear all the time lauding the 'reasons why Palm OS is better is that 'it never crashes'. So much for that belief.

[Vincent M Ferrari]

Interesting... one of the saws I hear all the time lauding the 'reasons why Palm OS is better is that 'it never crashes'. So much for that belief.

Anyone who believes that hasn't played with the OS 5 devices much. I've had a Tungsten T, and a T3, and both seemed very, for lack of a better word, fidgety.

Granted, one of the crashes was my own fault, but I've put my Axim through practical torture and it never crapped out on me. Sure Activesync gave me headaches, but who hasn't it given headaches to?!?

I'm glad to be back, though. Truthfully, even if I did switch permanently, it's hard to leave this community behind. There's no Palm equivalent to PPC thoughts, and that alone would be enough to smack me upside the head and make me stay.

And Fishie, you scare me too! :rotfl:

[riverbruce]

What about this survey that reports that Palm users have fewer problems and are more satisfied with their OS than Pocket PC users?

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,112915,pg,14,00.asp

I'm really not a troll as I read pocketpcthoughts multiple times daily. I am one though, who made the reverse switch and am really happy with my Treo 600 (formerly Treo 270) It just works for me. I've owned several PPCs and I just like the Treo as the best "convergent device." I have owned the T-Mobile Pocket PC phone as well. Anyway.... I just read the above article on the Brighthand site and thought I would pass it along.

P.S. I am tempted by the Motorola M220 Smartphone... ;>)

Bruce

NEC MobilePro 750C; Jornada; Ipaq; Tmobile PocketPC Phone Edition; Treo 270; Treo 600

[draiken]

Yes, I have Sinned!!! I bought my wife a Tungsten E for Christmas...

<Smacks head to the table> BLAM BLAM BLAM!!! </Smacks head to the table>

She's been the pen & paper kind of person, and about two years ago, I got her a Sharp organizer... that happened to stop reacting to key presses last week... and since I haven't gotten her anything for christmas yet...

IT WAS ON SALE!!!, and since I've never had any Palm devices of my own... I think I can satisfy 2 needs with it, my curiosity and introduce her to the pen & digitizer world

Anyway I PROMISE never to leave my h2215 unnatended, or make it jealous or anything :)

[drac]

It's simple: PalmOS devices, *on average*, crash *significantly less* than PocketPC devices.

Anyone who tells you that PalmOS devices in general literally never crash, though, is blinded, lying, stupid, or some combination of the above.

And, of course, anyone can have a bad experience or a good one on either platform.

[Air]

It's simple: PalmOS devices, *on average*, crash *significantly less* than PocketPC devices.

Anyone who tells you that PalmOS devices in general literally never crash, though, is blinded, lying, stupid, or some combination of the above.

And, of course, anyone can have a bad experience or a good one on either platform.

which PPC model do you own?

[drac]

If you're asking for my basis for comparison, I've played with various model of Jornada and iPAQ over the years, and have read widely on the topic.

I think that my experiences are more valid than someone who is basing their opinion, whether positive or negative, from experiences with only one unit.

I will admit that your disagreement (if you disagree) isn't going to change my opinion. Only contradictory experience/ general support of your position from my wider readings will do that.

I don't feel that that is unreasonable. I also have opinions on Merceded-Benzes versus BMW's, and I've owned neither, though I have driven both.

Just in case it's necessary, I'm going to re-emphasise that I don't consider PalmOS devices to be paragons of unflappable stability- I can crash mine regularly- nor do I consider PPC's to be DemonWork CrashHappy machines.

I'm also quite willing to recognise that the extra stability of PalmOS devices is a direct consequence of the greater limitations in their OS-level functionality. That's a tradeoff that Palm made at the time, and that most current PalmOS device owners do agree with, though it's getting a bit long in the tooth now! Those not comfortable with that tradeoff are understandably often happier with a PPC.



I'm planning to buy an HP 2215, imediately after my Canon 300D. :D I will likely make the T2 into a uberstable work device and use the PPC as play-toy.

[Linux_Zen]

drac is right here ... at least from my experiences too. My friends' (multiple friends) Axim X5 400MHz, Axim X5 300MHz, and h5150 crash significantly more than my friends' (different multiple friends) m515, Zire m150, NX70v, SJ22, or my SJ20. No, I'm not a troll, I am looking into PPC and that's why I registered.

Neither system is perfect. All of the PPCs released recently have decent (at least) multimedia, but no lower-end Palm OS-ers do. Okay, the TungstenE has MP3s, but that isn't really the whole of multimedia. And while Palm OS systems tend to crash less, they do crash sometimes. My SJ20 crashes every couple months ... I'm starting to worry about it (these crashed started right after Sony's 1-year warrenty gave out ... hmmmm ... ).

Right now PPC is looking brighter and brighter. I have only bought $10 worth of PalmOS software, so it won't be a big loss if I switch, eh?

[Janak Parekh]

drac is right here ... at least from my experiences too. My friends' (multiple friends) Axim X5 400MHz, Axim X5 300MHz, and h5150 crash significantly more than my friends' (different multiple friends) m515, Zire m150, NX70v, SJ22, or my SJ20. No, I'm not a troll, I am looking into PPC and that's why I registered.
But of course, people's experiences differ. My Pocket PC rarely crashes. Maybe once a month? Maybe less? I can't remember anymore. My 3870 (running Pocket PC 2002) was even more stable than that. :)

I think one could probably draw some conclusions that a typical PalmOS user experiences less crashes than a Pocket PC user, but there are so many variables built in (i.e., typical application usage) that to make a clean comparison is non-trivial.

--janak

[Dave Potter]

Are we talking about catastrophic crashes (hard resets) or minor crashes (soft resets)?

I gotta tell ya - soft resets don't concern me much. I can wait the 15 or 20 seconds for the unit to restart. What's the big deal?

If we are talking about hard resets - that's a different matter altogether. Restoring a backup and\or reinstalling software etc. can be a real pain.

This discussion to me is like comparing a small economy car to a fully equipped SUV. One gets you 100 miles per gallon but lacks versatility (Palm). The other uses a bit more gas, but lets you do alot more (PPC).

I'll choose versatility every time.

[Janak Parekh]

I gotta tell ya - soft resets don't concern me much. I can wait the 15 or 20 seconds for the unit to restart. What's the big deal?
Once in a blue moon, yes, I don't mind either. If I had to do it three times a day, though, that would be a huge distraction. Fortunately, I don't have to. :)

--janak

[Linux_Zen]

All of my friends with PDAs (they are very irresponsible IMO) let their PDAs run out of charge and so they loose their data ... but that isn't a crash IMO. That is just irresponisbility.

I was speaking of soft resets. Not too bad if only every month or two (three or four is good ^^), but my Axim friends (moreso the 300MHz guy--not sure if there's a corralation?) tend to soft reset crash more often--maybe weekly or every other week. I'm not sure about the iPAQ guy, not too close with him anymore.

BTW, that car analogy was right on.

[Janak Parekh]

I was speaking of soft resets. Not too bad if only every month or two (three or four is good ^^), but my Axim friends (moreso the 300MHz guy--not sure if there's a corralation?) tend to soft reset crash more often--maybe weekly or every other week. I'm not sure about the iPAQ guy, not too close with him anymore.
It depends on what software you use. I've found some software "reduces" the stability of the Pocket PC, due to memory leaks or some other reason. I would personally think once a week or two is a small compromise, but if you use just the built-in applications, I would expect it to be stable for longer than that.

--janak

[Dave Potter]

Wait a second here...

Isn't it a good idea to soft reset your PPC once on a while anyway? For that matter, the same applies to desktop PCs as well - an occasional reboot sort of cleans the slate (so to speak) and makes everything run more smoothly.

Even if you were to soft reset your PPC once per week - what would be the big deal? You shut off your TV at the end of the day without a second thought don't you? How if this any different?

What bothers us so much about soft resets? The inconvenience? (let's face it - it's not all that inconvenient). Or is it merely the idea? I think it's more psychological than anything else.

[Janak Parekh]

Isn't it a good idea to soft reset your PPC once on a while anyway? For that matter, the same applies to desktop PCs as well - an occasional reboot sort of cleans the slate (so to speak) and makes everything run more smoothly.
Well, it's good in the sense of it clears memory leaks. In a perfect world, software wouldn't have bugs and therefore wouldn't need a soft reset. My point is, practically, that soft resetting once in a while is OK, but if you have to do it too often it's a sign that something is wrong -- perhaps a buggy application -- but it doesn't necessarily mean Pocket PCs are crap. ;)

So I don't think I'm arguing with you...

You shut off your TV at the end of the day without a second thought don't you? How if this any different?
TVs aren't the same. They don't maintain much state. And computers (hardwarewise) are designed to stay on as long as necessary... for example, the PPCT server has been up for 86 days.

--janak

[Dave Potter]

You shut off your TV at the end of the day without a second thought don't you? How if this any different?

TVs aren't the same. They don't maintain much state. And computers (hardwarewise) are designed to stay on as long as necessary... for example, the PPCT server has been up for 86 days.--janak

I think you may have taken me too literally.

What I was trying to get at is this - we are accustomed to doing certain things in a certain way and do not question it. Yet certain other things, we do tend to question - particularly if they bear the 'Microsoft Windows' name. If this were not a 'Microsoft Windows' product - I wonder if we would be having this conversation.

Also, having worked in system integration for 10 years, I do know that servers benefit from the occasional rebooting now and then. I am a little out of the loop lately with XP, but I seem to recall a recommendation of once per month.

[Janak Parekh]

I think you may have taken me too literally.
Perhaps, but I still maintain the metaphor is incorrect. :razzing:

What I was trying to get at is this - we are accustomed to doing certain things in a certain way and do not question it. Yet certain other things, we do tend to question - particularly if they bear the 'Microsoft Windows' name. If this were not a 'Microsoft Windows' product - I wonder if we would be having this conversation.
I disagree. A unit that is "unstable", irrespective of OS, is simply unstable. I'm a software engineer and I've done IT as well, and there are strategies for building systems with long uptime. They're, admittedly, not easy -- but people do have them.

Also, having worked in system integration for 10 years, I do know that servers benefit from the occasional rebooting now and then. I am a little out of the loop lately with XP, but I seem to recall a recommendation of once per month.
That's not what you want, though. I've got servers that stay up for many months on end and are very stable and are only rebooted to install patches -- both on Windows and UNIX. Uptime is critical -- I don't want a product that I have to reboot.

--janak

[Dave Potter]

Point taken. (metaphors never were my stong point)

Still - I do think that people tend to make mountains out of mole hills way too often.

[Janak Parekh]

Still - I do think that people tend to make mountains out of mole hills way too often.
Of course. There'd be no reason for webboards otherwise. :lol: I find my Pocket PCs to be extremely stable, even with phones built into them; but I'm very conservative with my app selection.

--janak

[Dave Potter]

My PPC is also quite stable as well - despite my more liberal tendancies for application selection.

I guess I just get tired of the whiners. You know - the vocal minority.

:D

[Thinkingmandavid]

Janak and Zipper are both right and coming from different angles on the issue. Janak speaks of down time but those of us on a laptop are not to worried about down time on a reboot.
It has to do with your operating environment. Every person has different needs and obviously no one person knows it all. Now if we could all remember that it would be great :wink:
My personal experience with palm was ok but nothing great. I am one of those that it kept hard resetting itself.
MY diamon Mako was awesome and ahead of its time!
My ppc is great. I have done a few soft resets but no big deal. Some soft ware does require a soft reset. I did a hard reset to clear it out and start from scratch.