Microsoft On The Pocket PC [Archive]

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Ed Hansberry

11-21-2003, 02:00 PM

Earlier this week, Jason <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?topic_id=20866">started a thread</a> on Microsoft's CTO touting a Blackberry device based on a CNet News article. Of course, some take this opportunity to jump up and down and go "See! See! Microsoft isn't committed to the Pocket PC!" :roll: <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2003/20031121-mobiledevices.jpg" /> Microsoft didn't get where it is today by ignoring the competition. They also have around 50,000 employees world wide, so you have to assume that some of their employees are using competing products. I know, shocking as it may seem, they are people with their own minds, likes, interests and preferences in technology. I hear a few of them even use Macs! 8O That their CTO is using a Blackberry shouldn't be a big surprise. It doesn't mean the Pocket PC is on the way out anymore than it means the Smartphone is dead, or that MS is considering killing the Pocket PC in favor of the Smartphone. So is MS committed to the Pocket PC? Well, in one of the <a href="http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=618809#post618809">threads</a> discussing this topic, Derek Brown, Director of Global Marketing Communications, Mobile Devices Division (clearly the Mobile Device group likes really long names ;) ) steps in with some of his thoughts on the subject. <div class="quote"> Quote: This isn't a situation where we're making a binary decision on Pocket PC versus Smartphone where to support one is de facto to not support the other. As much as possible we're working to accrue value to the Windows Mobile software platform. That's one reason why we updated the brand - so we had a clear unified brand for both these form factors so that among other things our marketing investment accrues value to both. Likewise in development we're organized around functions not the form factors. There is an Inbox team for instance that develops for both. We're trying to keep as much of the code common between the two as possible. When we improve Inbox it will be better for both device form factors - better for the Windows Mobile platform overall...On form factors over all. Today the form factors you see for Pocket PC and Smartphone are distinctly different. I suspect a couple years from not this will be much less so. I think of one as more data centric applications and input focused, the other more voice and one handed input focused but within this constraint I think the lines between these will be very gray. One of the reasons continued investment in the Pocket PC platform makes so much sense to us is to foster and grow this innovation. We think it's very important to have a more options. </div> That is the key. Will there be any PDA around in 4-5 years that resembles today's devices? There certainly won't be any disconnected ones, other than cheap $15 units next to $5 solar calculators at Wal-Mart. Today there are very few Pocket PCs sold that don't have some form of connectivity and none that aren't capable of getting connected with a common expansion card. As features like connectivity converge, form factors will evolve. Will we be walking around with iPAQ 1900 sized devices in our pocket and wireless headsets utilizing 100% voice commands - even transcription? A device like that could give you lots of info without you ever having to look at the screen. Will we have clamshell style phones with 2-3 inch screens and slide out QWERTY thumb boards? I don't know. Microsoft is, however, sticking to their vision. They decided in the late 90's that rich features, applications and portable computing was the future. They were a bit ahead of the hardware at the time, but today, their vision has proven to be the right one. Year after year, Microsoft's mobile device platform has been gaining market share and competitors have been scrambling to keep up. In some areas, they have passed MS. In others, they are still woefully behind. Microsoft is committed to mobile computing, plain and simple, be it Pocket PC, Smartphone or some as yet unnamed platform.

SandersP

11-21-2003, 02:51 PM

PPC should STOP being so hang up being this organizer/little computerpad of yesteryear.

THINK modular computing, free the form factor. Yes I know that's what CE is for, but CE sucks, there is no app.

I want to see every kind of PPC form factor, from cheapie $99 Zire, to $999 flamshell with DVD player. I want video iPOD, I want rugged GPS, I want all sort of funky looking phone.

The world can only take so many h2210 before it gets bored.

And fer gawd sake, FIX the damn alarm and Active Sync. They are STILL broken!

Paragon

11-21-2003, 03:24 PM

Personally I have always found it difficult to set policy based on reading between the lines.

I think you would be very hard pressed to get anyone to commit to a long future for Pocket PC........NOT because it will be dumped or that Microsoft isn't behind it, but becasue it will very likely evolve into something different, and better.

If you consider the fact that we have flexible keyboards on the shelves now, and flexible screens on the horizon, think what those two hardware innovations can do to the platform. Pocket PC can easily morph into something much more usable by a wider audience.

Pocket PC isn't like the Newton was. There are over 30 OEMs licenced for the platform. There are 100's of accessory manufacturers, 1000's of software developer, and 1,000,000 of users comitted to this platform. I think they would have a hard time dropping it. The ramifications would be loud and long. Microsoft is very committed to Mobility. It is at the heart of where they are going. How all those hardware pieces will fit and what their final form will be is hard to predict.

I don't think you will see the platform dumped. I think if you asked th question "Does Tablet PC have a future." someone else at the back of the room would stand up and say "None". ;)

Dave

11-21-2003, 03:53 PM

There is no doubt that Mobile Computing is here to stay. It is going to continue to evolve, both for consumers and for businesses.

In the business world, Mobile Solutions are really taking off, whether it's PDAs for salesforce automation, or mobile computers and printers mounted on forklift trucks.

In hospitals nurses are using mobile scanners to barcodes on patient wristbands and drug packages so that their connected PPC can access the hospital database and ensure the right drug is being given to the right person. (To be fair, a lot of the hospitals current idea of mobility is a PC and printer mounted on a cart with a long extension lead, but you have to start somewhere).

Mobile Computing is going to grow really quickly in the next few years as more industries sign on.

I agree with Dave that the Pocket PC is going to continue to evolve and certainly get even better. I'm sure we will get better and better connectivity. Before long I'm sure that all PPCs (Other than the $5.00 ones) will have wireless networking (BT, WiFi and phone) built in since it will cost next to nothing to add these features.

Tablet PC? Hmmm, the only future I see for that form factor is with very small tablets, like the Sony UX or Sharp Zaurus models. WinCE would be great for that - in fact I seem to remember there is one kicking around somewhere.

peterawest

11-21-2003, 04:15 PM

There are... 1,000,000 of users comitted to this platform.
I agree with this, and I really don't see this shrinking anytime soon. Just in the past month I've helped four of my friends to purchase Pocket PC's.

I didn't have to convince them that the tool was vital to them; I just used it freely in my work and in my personal life. As they observed what I did with it and how it helped me, they took an interest in the tool.

Since then an additional four people have approached me asking for help in picking the right model for their wants and needs.

Consequently, I think the ever evolving products are only going to continue to be developed and accepted by consumers and businesses alike.

Skoobouy

11-21-2003, 04:22 PM

I didn't have to convince them that the tool was vital to them; I just used it freely in my work and in my personal life. As they observed what I did with it and how it helped me, they took an interest in the tool.

Since then an additional four people have approached me asking for help in picking the right model for their wants and needs.

Good advice for evangelizers in any field. :)

azhiker

11-21-2003, 04:43 PM

The current flock of PPC's are much improved over the originals, but who would want things to stay as they are?

Someday new technologies will replace the PPC, the smartphone, etc. Would we want it any other way? The PPC came about because having digital assistants makes sense, but with cross pollination of computers, with phones, with cars, our toys are getting smarter, but are we? Wehave to have a PPC, a smartphone, a smart car, gps, mp3 players, laptops, all this stuff is getting smaller but more and more devices then weigh us down. It's getting ridiculous.

Perhaps the PPC can merge all of that into one... that is how some see it. But the main reason I carry a PPC is because of the connection to a computer, for the contacts and appointments.

I look forward to new ways my needs will be met... maybe ALL smart devices can all share common data, all connected wirelessly, so we need not carry any devices with us because they will be prevelant everyone we go. We then only need a chip in our brain, or better, just our brains to telephatically connect to the smart devices all around us, speak or think our passowrds, say a person's name and be connected, ask for directions and get a map, ask for help and get our next appointment, ask for news and get the latest, ask for a song and it plays!

Let's not try to keep the PPC as it is!!!

adamz

11-21-2003, 05:13 PM

Will we be walking around with iPAQ 1900 sized devices in our pocket and wireless headsets utilizing 100% voice commands - even transcription? A device like that could give you lots of info without you ever having to look at the screen.

Exactly!!
http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=reviews&id=291

The XDA 2 is a good step in that direction!
The future is bright for phone edition Pocket PCs.. or whatever they may be called.

Jonathan1

11-21-2003, 06:08 PM

I don't see Smartphones ever fully taking over. A phone is intended to be really small and portable. Even at its best the smartphone is never going to be a platform for manipulating data. (Voice recog be danged. You aren't going to edit a spreadsheet with your voice on a bus. You'd have people slapping you upside the head) Its a platform for data access and even then it's limited by the size of the screen that you can fit on a phone. Try viewing all the info that is in Pocket Informant on a smartphone. Good luck. And lets assume for a sec that high res screens to make their way to Smartphones. The res can only go so high before
A. You either have to have a built in zoom app (ala Niadot.)
B. You are going to need a real magnifying glass to see.

I see Smartphones taking over the overall phone industry because of what you get in a smartphone. Its more versatile then a standard phone OS. But there will always be a need for the PDA and for data entry and manipulation.

Unfortunately beige box syndrome has set in on the Pocket PC. Yes you have some cool features being implemented into the Pocket PC (Tosh’s High rez.) but the form factor has gotten stale. Sure you have the likes of the 19xx, and the 4xxx which are small devices but look at Sony’s UX Clie. Holy crap. What a departure from the norm. It’s a radical redesign and while ballsy, it’s ballsyness that pushes innovation. I’ve heard all this wonderful talk about Microsoft loosening the reigns on what OEM’s can do with their devices but honestly what have we seen? Nothing that really departs from the norm. Sure you are stuffing more tech in smaller spaces (e.g the iPaq 4xxx) But is this innovation or evolution? Until I see some real changes in the form of the device I’m inclined to suggest it’s the latter.

Rudolf

11-21-2003, 08:38 PM

Until I see some real changes in the form of the device I?m inclined to suggest it?s the latter.
Both the ETAN P300 and the rumored Asus PPCPE device is venturing into the 2.8" screen realm. It remains to be seen how usuable will remain a PPC with a shrinked screen (especially regarding input methods), but these are the first depatures from the standard design. Especially the ASUS modell with it's flip keypad and side mounted 5way navigation button is a nice venture into the mobile phone world...
The asus model is definietly looking as a phone while providing the PPC functionality...

tthiel

11-22-2003, 04:16 PM

If you have a point in this article it's hard to see it with all your rambling. of course I'm typing this on a Mac so maybe I just don't get it. Y'know the Mac. It's one of those new G5's that blows Windows PCs out of the water speedwise, stability wise, and virus free wise. It also has the best user interface of any computer today. Anyway Microsoft is committed to Microsoft and right now they think their best interests are in the Tablet PC (which has been a gigantic flop) and "smartphones" which have a very minor audience. I for one am not interested in having to reboot my phone. Pocket PC has been purposely left to languish with minimal updates. I mean they still don't have reliable syncing! Micrtosoft does not want the Pocket PC to overshadow either smartphones or Tablet PC's so Pocket PC users are left with great hardware and a lousy OS. BTW lest you dismiss my comments as a Palm/Mac zealot (which you will anyway) I have been using Palms AND Pocket PC's since the Palm Professional and Win CE 1.0.

Earlier this week, Jason started a thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?topic_id=20866) on Microsoft's CTO touting a Blackberry device based on a CNet News article. Of course, some take this opportunity to jump up and down and go "See! See! Microsoft isn't committed to the Pocket PC!" :roll:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2003/20031121-mobiledevices.jpg

Microsoft didn't get where it is today by ignoring the competition. They also have around 50,000 employees world wide, so you have to assume that some of their employees are using competing products. I know, shocking as it may seem, they are people with their own minds, likes, interests and preferences in technology. I hear a few of them even use Macs! 8O That their CTO is using a Blackberry shouldn't be a big surprise. It doesn't mean the Pocket PC is on the way out anymore than it means the Smartphone is dead, or that MS is considering killing the Pocket PC in favor of the Smartphone.

So is MS committed to the Pocket PC? Well, in one of the threads (http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=618809#post618809) discussing this topic, Derek Brown, Director of Global Marketing Communications, Mobile Devices Division (clearly the Mobile Device group likes really long names ;) ) steps in with some of his thoughts on the subject.

This isn't a situation where we're making a binary decision on Pocket PC versus Smartphone where to support one is de facto to not support the other. As much as possible we're working to accrue value to the Windows Mobile software platform. That's one reason why we updated the brand - so we had a clear unified brand for both these form factors so that among other things our marketing investment accrues value to both. Likewise in development we're organized around functions not the form factors. There is an Inbox team for instance that develops for both. We're trying to keep as much of the code common between the two as possible. When we improve Inbox it will be better for both device form factors - better for the Windows Mobile platform overall...On form factors over all. Today the form factors you see for Pocket PC and Smartphone are distinctly different. I suspect a couple years from not this will be much less so. I think of one as more data centric applications and input focused, the other more voice and one handed input focused but within this constraint I think the lines between these will be very gray. One of the reasons continued investment in the Pocket PC platform makes so much sense to us is to foster and grow this innovation. We think it's very important to have a more options.

That is the key. Will there be any PDA around in 4-5 years that resembles today's devices? There certainly won't be any disconnected ones, other than cheap $15 units next to $5 solar calculators at Wal-Mart. Today there are very few Pocket PCs sold that don't have some form of connectivity and none that aren't capable of getting connected with a common expansion card. As features like connectivity converge, form factors will evolve. Will we be walking around with iPAQ 1900 sized devices in our pocket and wireless headsets utilizing 100% voice commands - even transcription? A device like that could give you lots of info without you ever having to look at the screen. Will we have clamshell style phones with 2-3 inch screens and slide out QWERTY thumb boards? I don't know. Microsoft is, however, sticking to their vision. They decided in the late 90's that rich features, applications and portable computing was the future. They were a bit ahead of the hardware at the time, but today, their vision has proven to be the right one. Year after year, Microsoft's mobile device platform has been gaining market share and competitors have been scrambling to keep up. In some areas, they have passed MS. In others, they are still woefully behind. Microsoft is committed to mobile computing, plain and simple, be it Pocket PC, Smartphone or some as yet unnamed platform.

11-22-2003, 04:34 PM

SassKwatch

11-22-2003, 06:26 PM

(To be fair, a lot of the hospitals current idea of mobility is a PC and printer mounted on a cart with a long extension lead, but you have to start somewhere).
And that for several reasons....

* Battery life. The worst thing a system can do to a health care provider is force them to return to a non-patient care area to change/charge batteries. Patient care providers should be providing patient care, not managing/maintaining a bunch of gadgets.

* The 2nd worst thing is physical size/weight. To succeed for a health care provider (and I'm speaking primarily of nurses, physical therapists, respiratory therapists and the like), the device needs to be small/light enough to fit in a lab coat pocket. These folks have enough other equipt to carry around that's directly related to providing care. They really don't need to have a heavy bulky device for documentation of the care hanging on their person. This is why the TabletPC concept will never succeed in this arena.

* Lack of enterprise capable mobile solutions...at least on the CE platform. There's plenty of stuff available on a full blown Windows pc...which produces the above problems. And though it's changing, there really just isn't a lot of CE based stuff out there right now that allows access to the same database by *many* users in *many* different locations.

11-22-2003, 06:51 PM

* Battery life. The worst thing a system can do to a health care provider is force them to return to a non-patient care area to change/charge batteries. Patient care providers should be providing patient care, not managing/maintaining a bunch of gadgets.
I agree, but battery life has gotten better in the last couple of years. Of course, if the mobile device is connected to a 802.11x network you have a very valid point.

* The 2nd worst thing is physical size/weight. To succeed for a health care provider (and I'm speaking primarily of nurses, physical therapists, respiratory therapists and the like), the device needs to be small/light enough to fit in a lab coat pocket. These folks have enough other equipt to carry around that's directly related to providing care. They really don't need to have a heavy bulky device for documentation of the care hanging on their person. This is why the TabletPC concept will never succeed in this arena.
I don't see the Tablet PC being much of a success in any arena. For healthcare I see two concepts that work in healthcare, the cart option and the PDA option.

* Lack of enterprise capable mobile solutions...at least on the CE platform. There's plenty of stuff available on a full blown Windows pc...which produces the above problems. And though it's changing, there really just isn't a lot of CE based stuff out there right now that allows access to the same database by *many* users in *many* different locations.
Now that many of the healthcare software companies and Auto ID companies are latching onto Mobile, I think there will be a lot of solutions coming onto the market. Indeed, there are a lot of bedside applications already around (not as many as for PCs as you rightly point out) and there will be more. As the FDA barcode mandate comes into effect at the pharmaceutical manufacturers, the pressure will shift to the hospitals to install computer based patient safety systems.

At the moment, most of these applications are built around barcodes. I'm sure that before too long RFID technology will be a bigger part of the mix as well. Some hospitals are starting to use RFID wristbands. You may already be aware that Compact Flash based devices to read barcodes and read and write to RFID tags are already kicking around. I wonder if the nurses will mind having to carry a car battery around? :D That bloody great battery that HP have for the 2215 would work in these applications.

SassKwatch

11-22-2003, 09:34 PM

I agree, but battery life has gotten better in the last couple of years. Of course, if the mobile device is connected to a 802.11x network you have a very valid point.
I think a case could be made that battery tech *hasn't* improved all that much. But that there are processors making better use of the available power. I.e., Transmeta Crusoe and Intel Centrino.

You're certainly right about the WLAN though. 'That big sucking sound you hear is....' :)

I don't see the Tablet PC being much of a success in any arena. For healthcare I see two concepts that work in healthcare, the cart option and the PDA option.
I agree entirely on the helathcare options. And used to agree with you on the TabletPC in general terms. But have been presented with enough viable rationales for it's use in a few arenas that I now tend to believe it has a chance as a niche product. But have a*really* hard time seeing the widespread adoption that BillyG seems to envision.

Now that many of the healthcare software companies and Auto ID companies are latching onto Mobile, I think there will be a lot of solutions coming onto the market.
Agreed. There's a *BIG* market to be tapped there.

The ironic thing in the hospital setting is that as recently as 5 yr ago, many physicians would have been highly resistant to CPOE systems (computerized physician order entry). But now, I understand new med school grads are beginning to inquire of institutions to which they're applying for internships and residencies whether such systems are available. With physicians coming on board, it's a SAFE bet things will change rapidly! :)

petvas

11-23-2003, 12:19 AM

I believe that every kind of device has its own market and covers specific needs. The Tablet PC has a great potential, the hardware still needs to improve...
In the next couple of years the Tablet PC will gain in popularity. Pocket PC isn't going to die and Microsoft is going to continue innovating and improving the Pocket-pc OS. The Smartphone is another kind of device and Microsoft sees a lot of potential there too. The Smartphone market will become bigger than the PPC one in the next years. This doesn't mean of course that Microsoft will stop improving the PPC platform...
All these devices do not overlap; they cover specific needs...
Ideally I would like to have all three. In such a case integrated innovation is needed and that exactly is what Microsoft tries to accomplish here...
I would never want to bring my PPC in a party but I would need my smartphone. I would like to have my Tablet PC in customer meetings but I would prefer my PPC when I am mobile (or not in front of a PC) and want to check my appointments...

Thinkingmandavid

11-23-2003, 04:25 AM

dh wrote
In hospitals nurses are using mobile scanners to barcodes on patient wristbands and drug packages so that their connected PPC can access the hospital database and ensure the right drug is being given to the right person. (To be fair, a lot of the hospitals current idea of mobility is a PC and printer mounted on a cart with a long extension lead, but you have to start somewhere).
My Texas Dr. went from using paper files to using the Fujitsu tablet pc and said it had helped a lot with patient info and the time it took to help patients. . They updated all patients files by taking the picture of the patient and of course all of their medical records, and then would sync them daily and keep it backed up in a data base.
It was small enough for the nurses to carry around with ease and have the info accessible to them, and it was great for the Dr. to do the prescriptions and sign his name.
In Baltimore the first Dr. I went to uses a ppc to keep track of patients and to write prescriptions which are automatically sent to the pharmacy. He asked, "what pharmacy do you use?" I smiled when I saw that ipaq because I knew he had streamlined the process and what was once the future, for him was now the present.

azhiker wrote
Perhaps the PPC can merge all of that into one
I think in a sense it is happening with bluetooth in that category. I also see when one device does more it raises the price which makes it hard to achieve the desirable in the ppc world sometimes.

Jonathon 1 wrote
I see Smartphones taking over the overall phone industry because of what you get in a smartphone. Its more versatile then a standard phone OS. But there will always be a need for the PDA and for data entry and manipulation.
I agree, smart phones have their place and it is in the cell phone world, not the ppc world. if it is more convenient to carry one over the other that is fine, just keep them synced. When it comes to daily use there is an advantage of a ppc over a smart phone with obvious reasons being screen size, word & excel documents, games 8O , etc.
Here is a question. Can you get to our calendar quicker on a smart phone or on a ppc :?: [/quote]

11-23-2003, 06:10 AM

In Baltimore the first Dr. I went to uses a ppc to keep track of patients and to write prescriptions which are automatically sent to the pharmacy. He asked, "what pharmacy do you use?" I smiled when I saw that ipaq because I knew he had streamlined the process and what was once the future, for him was now the present.
I read a report a short while ago on the number of people who die in the US each year because the pharmacist couldn't read the doctors handwriting on the prescription and guessed wrong. I can't remember the number but it was amazingly high - like in the low thousands. Staggering!

One of the big health insurance companies in MA has just issued the doctors in their network (about 1,100) with T-Mobile Blackberries so they can make a readable prescription form that is routed straight to the printer in the pharmacy, just like your guy with his Ipaq. They gave them the Blackberries for free on the basis that having prescriptions that can actually be read is going to save a ton of money - and some lives as well.