I'm in Love With a Rebel, and Her Name is EOS [Archive]

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Jason Dunn

12-01-2003, 06:00 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.ssdonline.com/detail_page.cfm?ProductID=8861A001&affid=T99' target='_blank'>http://www.ssdonline.com/detail_pag...1A001&affid=T99</a> </div>Long-time PPCT readers will know that I have a digital media bug (video, audio, and photography), and I'm constantly hunting for the best gear I can get my hands on (without re-mortgaging my house that is). I enjoy carrying digital pictures with me on my Pocket PC, and using Pocket PC software to work with digital photos. I'd like to introduce you to a camera that I purchased recently, and why it's so dear to me: the Canon EOS Digital Rebel. :ppclove: <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/300d.jpg" /> If you're not familiar with my lusting for this camera, <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18502">go read this first</a>. So, did it live up to my expectations? It surpassed them! After shooting purely with digital cameras since 1999 (with a then "cutting-edge" Kodak DC-265 :lol:), I had adapted my shooting style to make up for the one of the biggest limitations of mid-range digital cameras: shutter lag...<!> Speed, Speed, Speed I had gotten used to holding down the button halfway for minutes at a time, anticipating the moment, and trying to get people to hold poses and smiles so I could capture them. When I picked up the EOS Digital Rebel and snapped a picture, I nearly fell over in shock. The camera actually took the picture exactly at the moment I wanted it to! 8O You might not think that's a big deal, but every digital camera I've ever owned has always had a lag between pressing the button and taking the picture, and however slight, it can really throw off the moment. The Rebel's rapid autofocus and instant shutter speed make taking pictures a delight. I forgot how much I enjoyed the speed of 35mm photography! I no longer have to regret that aspect of digital photography - the Rebel gives me exactly what I need. Speed in photography isn't just about pressing the shutter - being able to take shots in rapid succession is also critical. The Rebel surprised me here too - I can easily take one picture a second, with a flash each time, for four seconds in a row before needing to pause to let the first photo get written from the buffer. That pause only needs to be about 1-2 seconds, and then I can start shooting again. Nice! Quality & Richness of Tone Beyond that, the Rebel excels in every other area that's important to me: colour trueness, low noise level, and a solid 6.3 megapixels of information (nice, big prints!), capable of capturing impressive levels of detail. So what level of detail am I talking about? <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/rebeldigital-details.jpg">Check this out</a> 8O (the image has been cropped). I'm not a professional photographer, but I've found the colour cast of the images it takes to be wonderful - very true to life, rich tones, but not over-saturated and fake looking like some digital images. In fact, of all the cameras I've owned, the images that come off the Rebel are closest to 35mm tones. Which, I suspect, is the whole point. :D Of course, it has taken some time for me to adjust - somehow the tones look "wrong" because I'm so used to a more "digital" image. Full circle indeed! Size & Battery Life The size is something I'm still trying to get used to - it's a big camera. When I'm used to slipping a small S-series Canon into my pocket for most occasions, this was a big adjustment while I was walking around Las Vegas. I also purchased an add-on bundle that gave me a 55-200mm lens, and never having owned a lens that big, I'm still getting used to that. :-) Having the interchangeable lenses is both a blessing and a curse - it's great to be able to snap on a telephoto lens and get closer to the action, but all of a sudden I need much bigger bag to handle all that great. Even <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,17566">the mighty Podzilla</a> isn't big enough for the Rebel, my external Flash, and my big lens. It might be time to drop an email to my good friends at <a href="http://www.roadwired.com/index.cfm?aid=7">Roadwired...</a> The battery life on this camera is simply awesome - I shot over 1300 photos in a span of four days (not all of them with a flash of course), and I only needed to recharge the camera battery once. I purchased an extra battery just to be sure, and it takes the same type of battery <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2965404415&category=30014&rd=1">as my Canon G2</a>, so I now have three batteries and 2 gigs of CompactFlash storage (1 GB x 1, 512 MB x 2). I'm loaded to bear - just point me at an event and I'll start snapping! :lol: Specifications This camera falls firmly into the prosumer range in terms of specifications. There are cameras out there that trump it in terms of resolution and manual control features, but for someone like me who loves photography but doesn't earn a living from it, this camera is a good blend of performance and value. Some of the quick specs: • 6.30 Megapixel Digital SLR, 3072 x 2048 resolution images • EF-S 18 - 55mm Lens (28-90 mm 35mm equiv.) • 1.8 inch TFT LCD, 118k Pixels • Auto Pop-up E-TTL autoflash • ISO 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600 • Enhanced 7-point AutoFocus • JPEG and RAW Image Formats • Rechargeable LiIon Battery • PictBridge Direct Printing • 1 Year Manufacturer Warranty If you're interested in reading the most thorough review I've ever read on this camera, <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/">go take a look at this dpreview.com article</a>. I can't begin to match a review like that, so this quick glimpse at my experience with the camera is meant to be anecdotal in nature. The dpreview.com article has all the gory technical details, and much of it is over my head. :worried: I just know that I love this camera, and for the first time since using my original Rebel 35mm camera, I feel like I'm not making any compromises by shooting digital. That's a nice feeling to have! Where to Buy The price point of the Rebel is simply amazing - I paid $1300 CAN for my Canon G2 a little over a year ago, and for only $300 CAN more you can buy a Rebel from a local store - not that I did mind you, because it was cheaper for me to order it when I was in the US. :wink: The Rebel's MSRP is $999 USD for the camera plus a 18-55mm lens, or $899 for the camera body alone. It's a no-brainer to get the body+lens package, because the lens is worth far more than $99 USD alone. Interested in buying a Rebel Digital EOS? <a href="http://www.ssdonline.com/detail_page.cfm?ProductID=8861A001&affid=T99">State Street Direct</a> [Affiliate] has competitive pricing, and you'll be supporting this site if you buy from them. And That's a Wrap! I sound like a giddy school girl whenever I talk about my Rebel - I haven't been this pleased with a purchase I've made in a very long time. I've taken it with me to show to my friends when I go out, which is something I'd normally only do with Pocket PCs. :roll: If you've ever wanted to step up to a prosumer-level camera, I heartily recommend the Canon Digital Rebel EOS - it's one of the best technology purchases I've ever made.

aroma

12-01-2003, 06:09 PM

I use this camera's daddy, the 10D, and absolutely love it. (The 10D and Rebel share alot of their guts, if I'm not mistaken.) Absolutely no comparison to the "consumer" level devices that are out there. I too have been amazed at the life of Canon's BP-511 battery packs. I spent a week driving through New England this fall for vacation, so I purchased an extra battery and packed my charger too. I never even had to change the battery, and I took a TON of photos.

- Aaron

dwildone

12-01-2003, 06:15 PM

I have had my Digital Rebel since late Septmeber and echo Jason's thoughts completely. This is at least the 7th digital camera that I have owned in the last few years and it comes very close to my 10D in image quality and features, but has much more bang for the buck. Cobined with a new Canon i9100 photo printer, I can get better 13x19 prints after a few minutes in Photoshop than I ever could spending hours in the darkroom. Hats of to Canon on another great camera... :clap:

Pat Logsdon

12-01-2003, 06:31 PM

Very interesting camera. One question - can this thing take lenses from a Canon 35mm SLR? I bought my wife an Elan II with a 75-300mm lens a few years ago, and it would be nice if I didn't have to buy a new one... :)

arebelspy

12-01-2003, 06:34 PM

Ahh, I wish I had money. Looks awesome. Too bad I blew my last $1,000 on an XDA II. :D

Maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list. Yeah..right. ;)

-arebelspy

ricksfiona

12-01-2003, 06:34 PM

I first want to get an S50 for those situations where an SLR is overkill, then probably the 10D. I'm not sure about the plastic body of the Rebel though I've heard great things from people who own them.

aroma

12-01-2003, 06:46 PM

One question - can this thing take lenses from a Canon 35mm SLR? I bought my wife an Elan II with a 75-300mm lens a few years ago, and it would be nice if I didn't have to buy a new one... :)

It uses the same lenses as all the Canon EOS cameras. (The Elan II is an EOS series.) So yes, it will use the same lens.

- Aaron

stitics

12-01-2003, 06:49 PM

One question - can this thing take lenses from a Canon 35mm SLR?

I believe that this is in the EOS line of cameras, and I believe that all of their lenses are interchangeable. I could be mistaken, however.

Edit: Apparently I am a hair too slow on the responses with Fitaly. I guess some practice is in order.

Brad Adrian

12-01-2003, 06:56 PM

rlobrecht

12-01-2003, 06:58 PM

Tom's Hardware loved it, too. http://www6.tomshardware.com/consumer/20031126/index.html Man, I wish I had a grand to spend.

nishka

12-01-2003, 07:02 PM

Yes, the camera is compatible with just about any lens that will work with other Canon EOS cameras. I borrowed a friend's the other day, but note that the digital processor changes the field of view of the lenses you'll use.

I can't even begin to tell you how awesome this camera is.. I've owned mine for the last month or so and can't get enough! It's simply incredible both for amateurs and 'prosumers' alike. I've waited a very long time for an affordable SLR and I jumped on this one the moment it came to market. I also picked up a Canon 420EX flash which makes a huge difference over the built-in unit.

It's really cool to be able to experiment with various shutter/aperature/iso settings and get immediate results. Much cheaper than film :).

dartman

12-01-2003, 07:04 PM

I agree with Jason. I've had 4 other digitals over the last few years. I've realy missed my 35 mm film based Nikon which I used for years. On the other hand, I became used to the convenience of the digital.

I was often frustrated by not having the control I wanted with the digitals. I've been watching the digital SLR's come down from $8000 to $1500 (body only) while increasing features. The sub $1000 Rebel caught me off guard.

While I might have preferred to have a Nikon and use my old lenses, I figured I'd end up buying some new ones anyhow so I talked myself into the Rebel.

This is a wonderful camera and I feel like I'm back into photography again.

I bought mine from Dell when they had a promotion. I bought the 28-135 IS lense from Gateway. With some coupons, they had the best prices a month ago.

I had it at home over Thanksgiving and my brother-in-law bought the Rebel, and 2 lenses from Gateway the next day.

Shop around.

The dpreview.com column is very active on the 300D.

dart

lst337

12-01-2003, 07:04 PM

I'm glad to hear that you like it so much. I've been using a Canon S20 digital for the past three years, and I've liked it so much that I take it everywhere with me. I've taken tens of thousands of photos with it, from vacations to work to just everyday pics. But it was a little inflexible in some areas, so just last week I ordered a Digital Rebel. The reviews were so good that I just had to have it... I hope that I enjoy mine as much as you have.

dartman

12-01-2003, 07:17 PM

I realize that it's pretty hard to compare traditional film to megapixels, but is there a rough comparison between the print resolution you can get with 6 megapixels? Would you say that's roughly equal to 400ASA film?

I'm not sure about that answer but you have to remember that if you end up cropping a small image out of a bigger one, you will be dealing with a reduced pixel count so the more pixels you start with, the better the enlarged image. There were several times on my other digitals where I just couldn't blow up a small portion because I didn't have enough dots to start with. So far, so good on the Rebel.

I've always heard the guys in the camera shops say that 6 MP is the starting point for comparison with film.

Kodak came out with one last year that uses Nikon lenses with 14 mega pixels. A raw image is 42 megabytes. Body only was $5000 I think.

dart

Jonathan1

12-01-2003, 07:18 PM

ARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!

I swore to myself I wouldn't get a new camera for 4 years. That my Sony 707 at 5MP would be enough. Why do you torture me so Jason with such a beautiful device?!?!?!

*insert temper tantrum emoticon here*

3072 x 2048 resolution images

At that res I could take pictures of the atoms on a flees butt.

NeilE

12-01-2003, 07:19 PM

I realize that it's pretty hard to compare traditional film to megapixels, but is there a rough comparison between the print resolution you can get with 6 megapixels? Would you say that's roughly equal to 400ASA film?

I've got the 10D, which shares the same sensor as the Digital rebel. At 100 ISO (unlike other digital cameras you can adjust the ISO, which really means "how much grain from the sensor am I willing to put up with?") you can print a 12x18 print that is absolutely stunning with no Photoshop tweaking that has clarity matching the prints I'd make with Fuji Velvia 50 on my old film SLR. At 1600 ISO you can print 12x18 after running NeatImage and still get incredible prints. I have four in my office from when the Concorde arrived in Seattle that are amazing.

I'll probably use up all my bandwidth for posting this, but you can look at the "Bird" and "Leg" shots that were done at 1600ISO at http://www.badcasserole.com/concorde/. They're full-resolution, taken with a 14mm lens, colour corrected and cleaned up using NeatImage.

uvahoos

12-01-2003, 07:29 PM

Man, does anyone want to buy my Canon A2E 35mm camera body?!? I think this may have just pushed me over to the all-digital camp. And to think I could use all of my lenses (5 or 6 of them) with this little beauty. :mrgreen:

DaleReeck

12-01-2003, 07:31 PM

I love it too. Too bad it isn't made of magnesium alloy like the 10D is though :)

Actually, I hear that the electronics of the 10D and 300D (Digital Rebel) are exactly the same, but are restricted om purpose by software only in the Rebel.

In any case, the supplied lense is great for wide angle (18mm), but I need to get myself a nice 300mm lense for zooming. The 55mm zoom of the supplied lense just doesn't cut it ;)

Jonathan1

12-01-2003, 07:45 PM

Just read the DPReview Review. I have one very small criticism of this camera. What was Canon thinking with USB 1.1?!? No way you are going to transfer pictures that are being captured at 6.5MP across a USB 1 cable. Sure you can take the CF card out and drop it into a CF reader but that just adds more gear you either need to carry around or have on your desk. IMHO USB 2 would have been the way to go. Again a small gripe. Not a deal killer in the slightest.

Jason Dunn

12-01-2003, 07:56 PM

yslee

12-01-2003, 08:09 PM

Jason, the EOS 300D ain't that fast (based on the EOS 300, so I do know its shutter lag and motor drive speed), guess you've been using the consumer digital cameras for too long. =P

While I'm at it, let me have a mini-thought here:

For years before the digital SLR became affordable (then it was Kodak franken-cameras with 5 digit price tags), the way into serious shooting was with a film SLR. As with most toys/tools, there are different levels in the product lineup, with high-end items appealing to the professional/rich amatuer, to the low end beginner's kit for those curious to try but don't want to spend a bomb.

And for years, the advice to newbies from "experienced" hobbyists was always to spend a bit more and get the camera on the next level. Didn't matter if it was a Canon EOS 500, EOS 300, or a Nikon F50/F60/F65, the advice would end up to be the same: Spend a bit more and get a better camera.

Now that the EOS 300D is out, I see people who've preached the above rush to buy or recommand a camera which they'd otherwise refuse to. The contradictory behaviour is extremely amusing; people would make various complaints about the camera (slow AF, slow shutter lag, etc) that they claimed would've made them miss a shot, screwup their shots, etc. Yet the presence of another feature, digital (and yes, I know it is a big feature), which need not necessarily make up for the deficiencies that were griped about, somehow overturns their judgement of the camera.

This contradictory behaviour amuses me to no end; somehow we humans have very interesting ways to come to a decision.

BTW, this doesn't really apply to those who've never touched a film SLR ever; the EOS 300D will feel like a godsend after using consumer digital cameras. I'm sure Jason is enjoying his new toy very much.

Rob Alexander

12-01-2003, 08:11 PM

I realize that it's pretty hard to compare traditional film to megapixels, but is there a rough comparison between the print resolution you can get with 6 megapixels? Would you say that's roughly equal to 400ASA film?

This is a very difficult question because of the fundamental differences between the two media. Anyone who estimates such a thing must make decisions about the effective dpi at which the comparison is to be made and the medium on which it will be displayed. In addition, we all know that what may look great to one person may be unsatisfactory to another. Tests done with vertical gray/white bars in increasingly narrow bands show that people vary widely in where the lines appear to turn to gray. And, no matter what the resolution, digital still lags behind film in tonal separation and contrast range. Cannon and Nikon say it takes a 22-25 megapixel CCD to produce a digital image that can display all of the subtle nuances of a 35mm image, and that's probably a reasonable estimate for those who would push the boundaries of display (large gallery-style exhibits, slide shows (not data projector), etc.

All that said, though, I seriously doubt that most people could tell the difference between a 6 MP digital image and a film image in the way that most of us would ever use them. The largest I ever enlarge photos is 11x14 and a good 6 MP would do a nice job with that.

I'm in a transition phase. I use digital for most casual photography, but I still take film with me for my wildlife photography. I haven't been able to afford a digital camera that would be comparable yet, and contrast range is particularly important for the types of photos I take. I've kept an eye on the 10D and now the Rebel and they are both tempting, but I still think I'll wait a little longer. These are the groundbreakers, and I can't help but to think that we'll have a whole range of similar options within the next year or so. And I agree with Jonathan about the USB 1.1 thing. What were they thinking? Next year's models will certainly have USB 2.0. That's a reasonable thing to expect on a $1,000 camera.

nomad

12-01-2003, 08:48 PM

Speed, Speed, Speed
I had gotten used to holding down the button halfway for minutes at a time, anticipating the moment, and trying to get people to hold poses and smiles so I could capture them. When I picked up the EOS Digital Rebel and snapped a picture, I nearly fell over in shock. The camera actually took the picture exactly at the moment I wanted it to! 8O You might not think that's a big deal, but every digital camera I've ever owned has always had a lag between pressing the button and taking the picture, and however slight, it can really throw off the moment. The Rebel's rapid autofocus and instant shutter speed make taking pictures a delight. I forgot how much I enjoyed the speed of 35mm photography! I no longer have to regret that aspect of digital photography - the Rebel gives me exactly what I need.

Speed in photography isn't just about pressing the shutter - being able to take shots in rapid succession is also critical. The Rebel surprised me here too - I can easily take one picture a second, with a flash each time, for four seconds in a row before needing to pause to let the first photo get written from the buffer. That pause only needs to be about 1-2 seconds, and then I can start shooting again. Nice!

Jason,

What kind of Memory CF Cards did you use ? What speed or Data transfer ?

Thanx.

Wiggin

12-01-2003, 09:03 PM

While I'm at it, let me have a mini-thought here:

For years before the digital SLR became affordable...the way into serious shooting was with a film SLR...
And for years, the advice to newbies from "experienced" hobbyists was always to spend a bit more and get the camera on the next level.

Now that the EOS 300D is out, I see people who've preached the above rush to buy or recommand a camera which they'd otherwise refuse to....

:silly:
I can't quite figure out what your "mini-thought" is... very confusing.

But, back on topic, the EOS Digital Rebel is a fantastic camera, and it brings a smile to my face to read the enthusiatic comments in this thread from EOS owners. I love this camera! The most frustrating thing about this camera is that it has relegated my Canon V1 to the closet, only 1 year after I purchased it :really mad:

As an aside... did you all know that inside every digital color photo, there is a black & white photo screaming to get out?
Following the purchase of the EOS, I subscribed to Digital Camera Magazine (I download it electronically via Zinio (http://www.zinio.com)...very kewl!), and the 1st issue I picked up was all about B&W digital photos. With some very simple changes in Photoshop (or other similar programs) you can transform very average color photos into amazing B&W shots.

I've been using SLR's since the 60's, and never fully grasped the potential for digital technology until I got my hands on the EOS (and I've owned a few pocket digital cameras).

If you die-hard enthusiasts still can't get over the wall to digital, consider this... on a recent trip to NY, I took ~360 photos with the EOS. After getting back home, I carefully reviewed each one, threw out (deleted) 50, and fine tuned 10 or so with Photoshop and then had them printed for framing. Total $ spent for that was .... $0!!! :D
With traditional film, that would be over $200 to get the rolls developed, and with a "not-good-for-frame-use" percentage of 90%, I waste $180+ just getting to the point where I can decide what to enlarge!
Do the math folks... the camera pays for itself pretty quickly if you take a lot of photos.

The world of SLR Digital cameras is now open to the masses ... what are you waiting for??? :idea: :way to go:

aroma

12-01-2003, 09:06 PM

Just read the DPReview Review. I have one very small criticism of this camera. What was Canon thinking with USB 1.1?!?

Honestly? :D They were thinking that no one who's at all serious about digital photography, and to drop $999 you'd need to be at least a little serious, would ever actually hook the camera up via USB. Memory card readers are always faster and easier - I haven't even installed any of the Canon software yet, there's just no point. :wink:

Gotta agree here. Although the ONE thing I miss about Canon's transfer software is it's ability to automatically rotate vertical frames during trasnfer as opposed to manually rotate them after copying.

- Aaron

kalex

12-01-2003, 09:31 PM

its a very nice digital SLR to start with. its not a speed demon nor does it have many advanced options. but with a price of under $1k with a lens its a very good option for anybody who wants to get digital SLR. SLRs are very different from consumer point and shoot digital cameras. i started using digital SLRs since the D30 came out and when it did, it was a great camera. right now i'm using Canon 1DS and that's why i haven't switched to 10d or digital rebel. I haven't used camera's connection to transfer files ever since i had the D30. i just bought myself a firewire compact flash reader and still use it to this day. it saves battery life and still faster to transfer files, than my 1DS, eventhough its firewire. All EOS cameras are compatable with all Canon EOS lenses (about 50 of them). the only downside is the size of the setup. I mostly use my 1Ds with 70-200mm F2.8 IS lens so my setup is about 10 pounds and huge. but the quality of the picture is unbelivable.

alex

draklava

12-01-2003, 09:47 PM

Nice - I just bought one this past Saturday and it is SWEET!

Jason Dunn

12-01-2003, 09:52 PM

What kind of Memory CF Cards did you use ? What speed or Data transfer?

I mostly use my 1 GB Sandisk CF card, which isn't very fast at all, but because the EOS has a nice buffer I can take about four images in rapid succession before having to pause for a moment, and usually by the time the fourth one is in the buffer the first one has been written and the buffer is ready for more. The camera has a cool display function that tells you how many photos arein the buffer - at least, I think that's what it's telling me. :lol:

Jason Dunn

12-01-2003, 10:34 PM

Jason, the EOS 300D ain't that fast (based on the EOS 300, so I do know its shutter lag and motor drive speed), guess you've been using the consumer digital cameras for too long. =P

Right - that's exactly what I said in my article. :? I HAVE been using consumer-grade cameras too long and I really missed the speed of a 35mm SLR.

What camera is faster, and by how much? I have a hard time imaging something faster than the Rebel. :D

Jason Dunn

12-01-2003, 10:37 PM

As an aside... did you all know that inside every digital color photo, there is a black & white photo screaming to get out?
Following the purchase of the EOS, I subscribed to Digital Camera Magazine (I download it electronically via Zinio (http://www.zinio.com)...very kewl!), and the 1st issue I picked up was all about B&W digital photos. With some very simple changes in Photoshop (or other similar programs) you can transform very average color photos into amazing B&W shots.

I agree completely! I love B&W photos, and some of my best pictures look even better in B&W. I also enjoy experimenting with colour tones using Flaming Pear's Melancholytron (http://www.flamingpear.com/melancholytron.html). It gives this photo I took an interesting look:

http://www.jasondunn.com/photos/misc/childwithstone.jpg

Digital Media Thoughts is going to be SO much fun - we'll get to talk about this kind of stuff all day, every day! :D

Dr. Mark

12-02-2003, 12:33 AM

:D Couldn't agree more about the quality of this machine, even though I eventually upgraded to the 10D. I've used Canon gear extensively for the last 8 years and am always amazed at how much technology they can cram into their cameras.

The really cool thing is that now I can combine my two greatest passions - gadgets and photography. I've already played around with some image editing software (photogenics) on the PPC, and now that I have a 2210 I can take the CF card straight out of the 10D, drop it into the PPC and do some basic editing on the run.

Bob12

12-02-2003, 12:46 AM

I have the EOS D60, Canon's first 6.3 MP camera which is the predecessor to the 10D and which shares most of its and the Rebel Digital's innards and functionality. My back up camera is a Canon EOS 1N 35mm SLR. Notice I said "back up" because for about 99% of the work I do, the D60 meets the challenge. As for shutter lag, it is almost non-existant - working in sunlight where the flash is not necessary, the D60, 10D, and 300D are capable of up to 3 frames per second. My 1N is capable of 6 fps. I don't have the specs handy, but if you check the review on dpreview that Jason mentioned, they address the question nicely.

For those of you with the 10D, if you don't already have one, I'd strongly recommend the battery grip option. It gives you a second battery on line as well as adding several control features to the camera. It also adds the ability to use a secure attachment hand strap. My primary lens is a Canon 35-350 which equates to 56-560 on the digital because of its 1.6 imager multiplier and the hand strap is much more comfortable and managable than a neck strap would ever be.

Edit: Well, I just checked dpreview on the 300D and find that it is slightly slower than the D60/10D in that its maximum speed is 2.5 fps where the D60/10D are 3 fps. Also, the 300Dreview did not talk about shutter lag - perhaps that was on the review of the D60, I didn't check.

David Prahl

12-02-2003, 12:47 AM

:drool:

Maybe I'll buy one...

After I go to college...

and pay off my loans...

:cry:

Anyone want to "sponsor a nerd"?

Jonathon Watkins

12-02-2003, 12:51 AM

Digital Media Thoughts is going to be SO much fun - we'll get to talk about this kind of stuff all day, every day! :D

OK, OK - just take ALL my internet browsing time why don't you! 8) :D

When interests colide........

I'm just not sure about going back up in size again to an SLR shaped camera. My Canon S45 slips right into my pocket & can go anywhere. The Nikon 5400 looks like a nice upgrade with it's 28-110 equivelent lens, but I somehow feel the 300D is just - a bit too large to go everywhere with me.

wigglesworth

12-02-2003, 01:06 AM

I have the Canon EOS 10 D Digital camera (6 MP) and I love it!. It is over my head as well but I'm having lot's of fun with it :D

PeterLake

12-02-2003, 02:08 AM

The Rebel surprised me here too - I can easily take one picture a second, with a flash each time, for four seconds in a row before needing to pause to let the first photo get written from the buffer.

Is this 1s lag time with the built-in flash or your external flash? If it's the built-in, I'll be at the store before this web page finishes loading.

NeilE

12-02-2003, 02:49 AM

I'm just not sure about going back up in size again to an SLR shaped camera. My Canon S45 slips right into my pocket & can go anywhere. The Nikon 5400 looks like a nice upgrade with it's 28-110 equivelent lens, but I somehow feel the 300D is just - a bit too large to go everywhere with me.

That's why I kept my S30. There are some places where bringing an SLR just isn't appropriate, especially when you consider my 10D always has BigEd attached for extra battery oomph and to make it easier to hold (I find the regular size of the camera too small for my hands). When I'm going to somewhere like a birthday party, I'd be a dork if I brought all my gear. So I bring the S30, curse the slow shutter speed, and make do.

topps

12-02-2003, 04:22 AM

Great minds...fools seldom...etc

Just got the same camera last week (day I visited you - That bag fits it perfectly.) - agree wholeheartedly with your comments.

I do find a trace of delay - about 0.1s compared to my old Canon F1 tank...but, as you say, so much better than the 0.7s delay of most consumer digital cameras - we missed so many good shots with them. I tried 4 but could not cope with the lag.

FYI, the slight (0.1s) delay on the Digital Rebel is caused by the odd movement of the mirror - it has to move its pivot back slightly before it can swing up out of the light path.

If you turn off the flash, you should be able to "motor drive" it for many frames (image size determines how fast you fill the buffer, obviously)

This weekend, I was down at Writing-On-Stone, visiting a professional photographer friend. He has digital Nikons with the monster Kodak backs. HUGE. Very fast capture and processing speed. But the image quality difference was only discernible at huge print sizes (which is what he does, but I rarely need).

VERY happy with the Dig Rebel, too.

OtoPA

12-02-2003, 04:41 AM

SassKwatch

12-02-2003, 04:57 AM

Size & Battery Life
Even the mighty Podzilla (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,17566) isn't big enough for the Rebel, my external Flash, and my big lens. It might be time to drop an email to my good friends at Roadwired... (http://www.roadwired.com/index.cfm?aid=7)
I've commented on this one here previously....

http://www.roadwired.com/store/Product.cfm?categoryid=5&Productid=58

It's a GREAT bag, and may well suit your needs as well.

yslee

12-02-2003, 08:12 AM

What camera is faster, and by how much? I have a hard time imaging something faster than the Rebel. :D

Any other DSLR from Nikon and Canon, I'd guess. EOS 300 level cameras are typically at 100-200ms of shutter lag. EOS 1D and D2H are at less than 90ms shutter lag.

Of course, that doesn't mean the 300D is slow, though I'm sure someone is gonna nitpick on it sooner or later.. here it's like 70% of 300D owners upgrade to the EOS 10D in 6 months or less.

yslee

12-02-2003, 08:14 AM

ppcsurfr

12-02-2003, 02:10 PM

Well, this is what I want...
Nikon D2H Main Features
4.1 effective megapixels for 2,464 x 1,632 pixel images

Nikon DX Format exclusive new JFET imaging sensor LBCAST features higher speed, lower power consumption, and minimal dark noise

Continuous shooting at 8 frames per second (fps) for up to 40 consecutive JPEG or 25 RAW (NEF: Nikon Electronic image File) full-resolution images

All systems optimized for maximum speed and response; the D2H is ready to take pictures the instant it is turned on; remarkably short 37ms shutter time lag is comparable to a fast film SLR

Advanced high-speed, high-precision 11-area AF system with 9 cross-type AF sensors delivers quick response and sharp focus regardless of shooting conditions

New Color Reproduction System offers three selectable color modes for different workflow environments

New metering technology combines three separate sensors to realize highly precise Auto White Balance (AWB) and Auto Tone Control (ATC)

Next-generation i-TTL flash control supports Advanced Wireless Lighting and versatile functions for up to four groups of Nikon SB-800 Speedlights

Top shutter speed of 1/8,000 second and flash sync speed up to 1/250 second

Plug-and-play USB 2.0 (Hi-Speed) interface

Lightweight, durable magnesium body

Nikon NEF (Nikon Electronic image File) format for achieving the most versatile and effective image control and correction

New JPEG and RAW (NEF) Combination Filing System enables simultaneous recording of NEF and JPEG data for the same shot

Nikon View Software (supplied) enables easy transfer and viewing of images, including those taken in Nikon "NEF" RAW file format

Broad compatibility with the AF Nikkor lens lineup and other accessories for Nikon professional digital and film SLRs

http://www.nikon-image.com/eng/PDF/d2h.htm

A Nikon D2H with Wi-Fi attachment.

Carlo

apeguero

12-02-2003, 03:05 PM

I tried the Digital Rebel for a few days and had to return it as it just didn't feel like it was worth the $1000.00 I had paid for it. The speed was good, the pictures were nice, but I just didn't like to "plastic" feel. I also didn't like the LCD info screen in the back rather then on the top right side of the body like most other SLRs. Plus I didn't like the scroll buttons instead of a joystick like on the Nikon D100 or the wheel like on the EOS 10D.

I then decided to go for either the Nikon D100 or the Canon EOS 10D. After searching around for about a month, I noticed that these two cameras had a lot of similarities. The things that made me chose the Canon EOS 10D was that I already have a Canon CP-200 printer, a Canon S820D Photo quality printer, and a Canon S400. Plus, Canon has a good track record on Firmware updates and customer support. Plus, the fact that I couldn't find a 10D for that whole month due to high demand, just told me people were chosing it over the Nikon D100.

Jason, if you like the Digital Rebel then you'll completely fall in love with the Canon EOS 10D. It's a much better build. I think it's better ergonomically. True, it's more expensive but you do get what you pay for.

After getting the 10D I outfitted it with the Canon Speedlight 550EX flash - truly amazing! I also lucked out and found a Canon 28-135mm EF USM IS lens for $389.00, retail!!! That's a $570.00 lens!

It also adds the ability to use a secure attachment hand strap. My primary lens is a Canon 35-350 which equates to 56-560 on the digital because of its 1.6 imager multiplier and the hand strap is much more comfortable and managable than a neck strap would ever be.

I picked up a generic, leather hand grip that secures itself to the tripod mount hole and it doesn't require the battery pack. It's very comfortable and only cost me about $17.00. I bought it at W.B. Hunt in Melrose, MA.

Edit: Well, I just checked dpreview on the 300D and find that it is slightly slower than the D60/10D in that its maximum speed is 2.5 fps where the D60/10D are 3 fps. Also, the 300Dreview did not talk about shutter lag - perhaps that was on the review of the D60, I didn't check.

the following review http://www.techtv.com/news/products/story/0,24195,3428132,00.html
has the lag on the 10D as 190ms.

The following review http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EDR/EDRA7.HTM has the lag time on the Digital Rebel at 0.248 and up. The same shows the 10D as .1 second. Whichever, I think both are fast. Not quite as fast as Nikon's new D2H but then again I'm not working for Sports Illustrated or the "Old York Times" either :D

Just as an FYI for those of you not interested in all of this SLR stuff, consider the Canon S400 Digital Elf. That's my current backup camera and as an FYI, it took better pictures as a 4mp then the Konica-Minolta Dimage A1. I tried the A1 for a couple of weeks and was just disgusted with the quality, noise, and out of focus pictures.

fyiguy

12-02-2003, 03:33 PM

With all the experts here, a question: I need a digital camera to use in the operating room. Size is marginally important, but image quality and ability to manually focus (because the autofocus frequently gets befuddled on my current Olympus c-2500L 2.5MP) are more important. Most of the shots would be in Macro mode, and I'm hoping to NOT have to change lenses.. a real pain with mask, gown and overgloves. Any suggestions? (It gets purchased by 'the company' so I can probably spend up to 1K)

Thanks for the help.

We have several different types of cameras for different types of cases that we are doing. Some are installed with surgical microscopes, some for surgical field of view and some are used post and pre-op.

We are currently using a Fuji FinePix SLR(the body keeps getting upgraded so I don't know which one they are using now) with our Topcon system for taking pictures of Corneas and Retinal images pre-surgery.

During cases we generally have a digital vid camera in the OR light taking shots of the surgery, for our viewing room and remote learning to other campuses as a backup for missed shots with the digital camera. The camera can also be moved from room to room if needed elsewhere or if a backup is needed with a simply unscrewing from the OR Light.

Attached to our surgical microscopes we have a camera attachment that is used to take pictures currently we are trying the latest SD10 from Sigma and are impressed with the quality of the shots, much better than the SD9.

Most Surgical field shots are currently taken with various Nikon bodies and some special Nikor 50 Macro lenses pre-treated with a coating to give the best color and contrast with the Xenon OR lights. I don't know if this is true or not or just some salesman hooey... You just have to remember most Surgical field shots are taken as center off focus shots and you need to find a camera you are comfortable using with simple controls to make those shots.

A nice option we are waiting for a loaner on, is the new E1 from Olympus that has the 4/3" type sensor and lens mount, so the lens system is made for digital cameras and not using a standard film based lens system. The E1 also has a cool supersonic wave filter that shakes dust from the CCD and environmental sealing, which our sales guy said is great for the OR environment . It also has USB2 and Firewire support. However the body alone costs about $1600 without lenses.

I highly recommend contacting your vendor(s) and ask for a loaner unit for trial, and see which setup works best for you...each camera setup has its pluses and minues and youwill need to find the correct setup for your application, the best way is a try before you buy, which also helps when there is end of quarter spending or departmental use it or loose it money comes around.

:mrgreen:

tmulli

12-02-2003, 03:54 PM

Jason Dunn

12-02-2003, 04:29 PM

I appreciate the great discussion and exchange of information here, but I wanted to clear one thing up: my intention in writing this review wasn't so state that the Digital Rebel EOS wasn't the ultimate digital SLR - of course if you spend more money you'll find better cameras. I have no doubt that there are better/faster/higher quality digital SLRs on the market. :D

All of the people trying to "talk me up" to the 10D or a Nikon model (or those looking down their nose at the Rebel) completely missed the point of my review: the Digital Rebel is the first digital SLR to hit the price threshold that I was willing to pay. I'm not a professional photographer, and I don't make an income with my camera, so spending $2500+ CND (body+lens) on a camera isn't logical for me.

In every market, there are segments, and by releasing a plastic-bodied, somewhat "dumbed-down" version of the D10 and calling it a Digital Rebel, Canon was going after a new market segment - the people like myself would weren't willing to spend what a D10 + lens would cost.

Please keep this in mind when you're talking about what you purchased and why - we all have different reasons for buying what we do, and neither is right or wrong, simply relevant or irrelevant to us.

I remain thrilled with the purchase of my Canon Digital Rebel, because it fits my needs perfectly! :way to go:

Wiggin

12-02-2003, 07:16 PM

If you die-hard enthusiasts still can't get over the wall to digital, consider this... on a recent trip to NY, I took ~360 photos with the EOS. After getting back home, I carefully reviewed each one, threw out (deleted) 50, and fine tuned 10 or so with Photoshop and then had them printed for framing. Total $ spent for that was .... $0!!! :D

What about the cost of photo paper and photo inks for your printer? Ink costs add up quickly as well.

True, photo paper and ink would be costs to consider. As for myself, I let professional shops do large (> 4x5") printing, especially if it is for framing. I merely give them a JPEG file, they take care of the rest...and the cost is the same as it would be if I was using standard film negatives. The cost compare in my post merely covered the develop cost... $0 for digital, $$$ for standard film.
Easy comparison n'est pas?
:way to go:

yslee

12-02-2003, 08:12 PM

Well, this is what I want...
Nikon D2H Main Features

Personally, I'd leave the D2H to the journalists. Wait for the D2X; amatuers are usually better off with more resolution than frame rate (unless you shoot sports that move at a frantic pace exclusively).

The things that made me chose the Canon EOS 10D was that I already have a Canon CP-200 printer, a Canon S820D Photo quality printer, and a Canon S400. Plus, the fact that I couldn't find a 10D for that whole month due to high demand, just told me people were chosing it over the Nikon D100.

Not to put you down or anything, these are really odd reasons to choose a system! I'd be in agreement with you that both cameras are quite similar, and that in the right hands both will be more than capable of producing very fine photos.

apeguero

12-02-2003, 08:26 PM

You are right, Jason. The Digital Rebel is an excellent camera as it broke the very important $1000.00 barrier not just with the body but with a nice zoom lens included! Plus, all in all, in many websites out there it is considered an upgrade, in many ways, to one of the nicer Prosumer Digital SLRs out there (my main camera), the EOS 10D.

All of this means that Nikon and the rest will have to come out with something to beat it. All of this is good news to us all. Maybe this will bring down the prices a bit on the rest of them (hopefully the Nikon D2H).

One more thing to remember with this Digital Rebel, it's fully compatible with the Canon EF lenses as well as the EFS lenses and the Speedlight flashes and is supported by a greate company. As I read somewhere, it's not only the camera that makes the picture but also the photographer, the lens, and all of the other hardware used to capture the image. In this case you're off to a great start with a nice camera like the Digital Rebel.

On a side note, did you all get to see the Sigma Digital SLRs using the Foveon X3 technology (upcoming model is SD10)? Wow! Maybe we can start a post on that bit of Digital Technology and how you feel about it. 8)

Will you be starting a ...Thoughts website on Digital Cameras? Cool. Sign me up 0X

Jason Dunn

12-02-2003, 08:29 PM

On a side note, did you all get to see the Sigma Digital SLRs using the Foveon X3 technology (upcoming model is SD10)? Wow! Maybe we can start a post on that bit of Digital Technology and how you feel about it. 8)...Will you be starting a ...Thoughts website on Digital Cameras? Cool. Sign me up 0X

Yes, I've been drooling over the X3 sensor for some time, but the Sigma never came down in price to within what I was willing to spend.

If you go look at the logo for www.digitalmediathoughts.com, you'll see what we'll be covering. :wink:

aroma

12-02-2003, 09:33 PM

Plus, all in all, in many websites out there it is considered an upgrade, in many ways, to one of the nicer Prosumer Digital SLRs out there (my main camera), the EOS 10D.

Not to get off topic from the Rebel again, but I'd be curious as to how it can be considered an upgrade to the 10D. The 10D has more features and functionality, larger frame buffer, faster continuous frames, and less shutter lag. I'm not trying to take anything away from the Rebel. If it was out when I bought my 10D, I probably would have went with the Rebel, but the 10D is definately the "higher" end model.

- Aaron

Dr. Mark

12-02-2003, 10:08 PM

As I mentioned earlier, I ended up moving on to the 10D, for a couple of reasons:

1) Metal body. I'm lucky enough to occasionally acquire media accreditation to various motor sport events, and the metal body just feels like it could withstand a few more knocks and scrapes. Of course, this is probably more perception than reality, but when I'm shooting it's one less thing playing on my mind.

2) Slightly hight frames-per-second rate. The difference is admittedly marginal, but when something like a crash is happening 1 extra fram in a second counts for a lot. The 9 shot buffer (versus the Rebel's 4) also makes a big difference here.

3) Flash Exposure Compensation. Not a big thing for most people, but when you want complete control over exposures it can certainly help.

4) "Pro-like" look. Since photography is not what I do for a living, I always feel a bit self-conscious in a media scrum, elbow to elbow with people who are paid to use the $10,000 + gear they are holding. A big (with the battery grip) black camera makes me stand out slightly less than a silver one. And I admit, there's a fair bit of "wanna-be" syndrome in there too.

Having said this, I still think the Rebel is a wonderful piece of gear, and am amazed that Canon can sell it for the price. There's a lot of things I actually like about it more that the 10D, especially the more intuitibe menu design. I also really miss the supplied lens; while it's not the ultimate in quality (although still really good), I'm not looking forward to having to fork out another $750 for a 17-40mm to get my wide-angle back!

The 10D is not necessarily a better camera, just one with different features targeted at a slightly different user. The bottom line is always the images the machine produces, and with almost identical internals, both cameras produce outstanding images with the same lens.

SassKwatch

12-03-2003, 01:58 AM

Please keep this in mind when you're talking about what you purchased and why - we all have different reasons for buying what we do, and neither is right or wrong, simply relevant or irrelevant to us.

In addition....

The camera is just a tool. The art (or lack thereof) of photography comes out of the minds of the user.

Photography has become one of those avocations where people have become *WAY* too involved with, and spend way too much time discussing, the technical specs of their tools. And way too little time learning how to take good pictures.

Jason Dunn

12-03-2003, 02:59 AM

Janak Parekh

12-03-2003, 03:31 AM

Photography has become one of those avocations where people have become *WAY* too involved with, and spend way too much time discussing, the technical specs of their tools. And way too little time learning how to take good pictures.
Ummm... isn't this also true of, say, Pocket PCs? Or computers? Or even digital music players? Don't forget Brad's mantra..... ;)

--janak

SassKwatch

12-03-2003, 04:42 AM

Ummm... isn't this also true of, say, Pocket PCs? Or computers? Or even digital music players? Don't forget Brad's mantra..... ;)

Sure......to an extent. Though of those 3 device types, it would apply more to a computer more than the other 2, IMO. A true code slinging 'artist' doesn't need the absolute fastest processor and biggest, baddest hd to create his/her 'art'.

I'm not sure that ppc's have evolved to the point of creative use being more in the hands of the user than in the tool itself. And digital music players even less so. But then, maybe that's my own little mental box I've crawled into, and I *have* forgotten Brad's mantra. :)

yslee

12-03-2003, 10:18 AM

In addition....

The camera is just a tool. The art (or lack thereof) of photography comes out of the minds of the user.

Photography has become one of those avocations where people have become *WAY* too involved with, and spend way too much time discussing, the technical specs of their tools. And way too little time learning how to take good pictures.

You're my hero! It's exactly what I've been saying for a long long time, but sadly I get ignored a lot where I am. I guess for many people, it is easier to spend time talking about clear cut things (like equipment), as well as spending money on equipment then investing time in skills.

Janak, it's especially more so with photography, considering that it is more of an art form; there's a greater involvement on the part of the user then the items you've listed, and there is a greater "output" from a camera than say, a PocketPC (which is like a personal tool), or a music player (which is just a personal entertainment gadget).

franck_nyc

12-03-2003, 04:00 PM

I've had a Canon S30 for about 2 years and love it.
But I am very tempted to get a Digital Rebel now ...

Janak Parekh

12-03-2003, 09:02 PM

Janak, it's especially more so with photography, considering that it is more of an art form; there's a greater involvement on the part of the user then the items you've listed, and there is a greater "output" from a camera than say, a PocketPC (which is like a personal tool), or a music player (which is just a personal entertainment gadget).
I guess that's so, but what's wrong with enjoying photography equipment for its own sake? ;) On the other hand, I agree -- if I were to get a digital SLR, I'd spend a heck of a lot of time understanding how to take the actual pictures. One effect of the digital photography revolution is that there are lots of bad pictures out there on the Web. It's all a mixed bag...

--janak

ricksfiona

12-04-2003, 10:01 AM

Do the math folks... the camera pays for itself pretty quickly if you take a lot of photos.

Good point. I think most people would have this on the back of their minds, but never REALLY think about the true cost... Get a good inkjet printer (Epson Stylus Photo 825 - $100) plus some Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper (50 pages - $15) and you can get some BEAUTIFUL 8.5 x 11 portraits.

maximus

12-04-2003, 10:02 AM

Not to get off topic from the Rebel again, but I'd be curious as to how it can be considered an upgrade to the 10D. The 10D has more features and functionality, larger frame buffer, faster continuous frames, and less shutter lag. I'm not trying to take anything away from the Rebel. If it was out when I bought my 10D, I probably would have went with the Rebel, but the 10D is definately the "higher" end model.

- Aaron

300D is simply a toned-down version of 10D. The non-magnesium body is the sign that 300D is aimed lower than the 10D's market.

Six months ago I was thinking about getting a 10D, but when I put a 10D and Sigma SD9 side by side ... I simply have to choose the SD9. The Foveon sensor is simply too marvelous to pass. The perfect balance of the camera's weight ...

Traveller

12-05-2003, 04:17 AM

For those with a large investment in Nikon equipment, the Nikon D 70 will be available Spring 2004. It will be competively priced against the Digital Rebel.

Dalantech

12-05-2003, 02:20 PM

Here are a few pictures from the 300D:

300D Gallery (http://www.pbase.com/dalantech/300d)

Underwater Mike

12-05-2003, 04:21 PM

All,

Haven't posted in more than six months -- been spending all my bucks building new PCs, including a foray into water cooling -- but this thread caught my eye.

I am STILL using a Canon A1, which I purchased in high school, and which helped earn beer money all through the 80s. The thing is a dinosaur now, but the cloth shutter still works and the thousands that I invested in FD lenses aren't transferrable to the EOS line. :( Still, I almost bought a 300D last month, stopped only by the fact that the 20% coupon from Dell expired the day before my wife gave me permission (!) to buy the camera.

I'm not qualified to comment as a professional, but I do have 20+ years as an advanced amateur with some publication credits. I can say that when shooting side-by-side with the 300D and my A1 on plain ol' Max 400 film (no strobe), the 300D is, to me, almost the perfect camera at that price point. Yes, the 10D is nicer (I did see some fringing on the 300D that was not present on the 10D), and I'd rather have that, but for anything I do the value equation favors the 300D. As mentioned earlier, the shutter lag is still noticeable if you're coming from a film SLR, but it's a lot better than any other pro-sumer-level d-cam I've ever tried.

If new electronics, including a smallish HDTV, hadn't wiped out my savings this season, I'd be buying a 300D and an equally pricey underwater housing. Again, for the price, Canon hit a home run on this one. :werenotworthy:

Back to lurking...

cwren

12-05-2003, 05:35 PM

Check out this web site for custom accessories for the Digital Rebel and others. They have alot of cool stuff for photography.
www.kirkphoto.com

marlof

12-05-2003, 08:24 PM

The camera is just a tool. The art (or lack thereof) of photography comes out of the minds of the user.

Exactly. And like all tools, one should be comfortable in using it. I for one bought the Leica Digilux 1, since I felt immediately at home with it. I pressed all the right buttons, and knew how to make pictures with it. I'm told a lot of time that I could get technically better results with another camera in that price range (at that time the Canon G2), but I just didn't like the way the Canon worked. It works very fine for a good friend of mine, so he's happy with his camera, I'm happy with mine, and we're both photographing away while others discuss the merits of our cameras.

Right now, I'm about to think about yet another camera again. I'm still not sure if it is going to be a Digital Rebel or the D70 (I don't have glass for any of those), or that I'll stay in the streetcam range with the Digilux 2 or inbetween with the Sony F828. Of all those, only the Digital Rebel is released right now, and I must admit, it's a great camera. But I'm looking forward to the next period of time where I'll be snapping away with my Digilux 1, and reading away on soon-to-be-released products, and tests of those. In that order. :)

Godsongz

12-05-2003, 10:38 PM

hmmmm, choices choices... I LOVE the Rebel (good friends bought one recently, but I've also always loved Nikon gear. Will trade in my 8008s body either way, but if I go with the D70 then I can still use my AF Nikkor 35-105 and SB-24 Speedlight (great flash). If I go with the Rebel I'll dump all the Nikon gear. hmmmmmmmm

jediad

12-06-2003, 03:57 PM

Why spend $999 on Rebel when Minolta A1 costs $899 and you get more for the buck.

Minolta A1:
-Metal frame
-3D AF, Subject tracking AF, Predictive AF, Eye start AF, 11-point AF, Flex Focus AF and Manual.
-7X Optical Zoom 28mm-200mm (35mm format) w/ GT APO lens (Pro series optics)
-Anti Shake at all focal lenghts
-LCD on top - EVF tilts and shows 100% field of view
-Wireless flash built in w/ flash sync at all speeds
-PC connection for studio strobes
-Shutter speeds 30sec to 1/16,000TH
-Custom functions built-in
-Video clips up to 15minutes w/audio
-Memo mode 15 sec per image or w/o image

Rebel:
-Plastis constructions
-no eye start
-no subject tracking (only 7-point area)
-no flex focus
-EF 28.8mm to 88mm (35mm format) w/ old APS lens (consumer level optics)
-no anti shake
-no lcd on top
-no tilting lcd
-non tilting optical finder and only 95% FOV
-No menu display in optical finder
-no pc conn for strobes
-max flash sync is ONLY 1/200th
-shutter speeds 30 sec to ONLY 1/4000th
-no custom functions
-no video clips/ no audio

Hands down the better choice is the Minolta A1. Sure you can't change lens, but get APO lens with wide range 28 to 200mm. To achieve same on the Rebel have to get APO optics lens w/Anti-shake in same range would cost approx. $1599. It's your choice, but I love my Minolta A1...

Godsongz

12-06-2003, 11:44 PM

JediAD, your A1 looks like a very nice camera but don't pimp it by listing all its positive aspects against the competitions negative aspects.... thats just so... <shiver> Palm. </shiver>

marlof

12-07-2003, 10:59 AM

Why spend $999 on Rebel when Minolta A1 costs $899 and you get more for the buck.

The A1 is in impressive camera, but is a different type of camera than the Digital Rebel. It's about as easy as you list to create a list of features the Rebel has that the A1 doesn't have (bigger sensor means less S/N, exchangeable lenses being the main ones to me). It's not about what is the best in absolute terms, it's about what is the best for you. If you're the happiest with an A1: good for you! If Jason wanted to return to SLR photography in a digital way, the A1 wouldn't cut it, and he's happy with the Rebel. Good for him! And then there's us, still deciding between the two.... poor us....

Jason Dunn

12-08-2003, 12:07 AM

Why spend $999 on Rebel when Minolta A1 costs $899 and you get more for the buck.

Because the Rebel was the camera that I wanted to buy? It's not just about specs...

yslee

12-08-2003, 08:19 AM

Why spend $999 on Rebel when Minolta A1 costs $899 and you get more for the buck.

Because the Rebel was the camera that I wanted to buy? It's not just about specs...

Hehe, that's a good one. It's certainly not about the specs, and some cameras look nicer on paper, but are not necessary better, and here is such an example.

jediad

12-08-2003, 09:35 AM

Okay, specs aside, I did try the Rebel and tested hand in hand with the A1 and really felt the A1 is just built better and feels better, along with pictures looking better. Maybe, having true SLR like a Rebel may be better in the long run, but I'll wait until next generations versions come. My opinion is a Minolta Dimage A1.

Godsongz

12-08-2003, 03:30 PM

Anyone know if I could use my Nikon SB-24 Speedlight with the Rebel?

ux4484

12-08-2003, 04:33 PM

Infinity cameras has the Rebel for $669 USD (http://www.infinitycameras.com/viewitem.php?IndexID=3856)!

seems a pretty good price!......

.....While that is still too pricey for me to upgrade, I am heartened by the faster response time to take photo's which is a major gripe with my current Olympus C-700, that was something that was holding me back from getting another digital, glad to see it's been addressed.

Janak Parekh

12-08-2003, 05:41 PM

Infinity cameras has the Rebel for $669 USD (http://www.infinitycameras.com/viewitem.php?IndexID=3856)!
I bet that's without the bundled EF-S lens, though, which is supposed to be an amazing deal and you can't get it separately.

Still, not a bad price.

--janak

ux4484

12-08-2003, 06:01 PM

I bet that's without the bundled EF-S lens, though, which is supposed to be an amazing deal and you can't get it separately.

Still, not a bad price.

--janak

you are correct sir, the bundle with the EF-S is $809.99 (http://www.infinitycameras.com/viewitem.php?IndexID=3858)

yslee

12-09-2003, 12:42 AM

Anyone know if I could use my Nikon SB-24 Speedlight with the Rebel?

Yes you can, but you'll not have TTL functions (fairly obvious), but you can use the flash in A and M modes.

Godsongz

12-09-2003, 10:57 PM

Jason Dunn

12-09-2003, 11:20 PM

Wiggin

12-10-2003, 01:10 AM

The EF-S lens apparently was made specifically for the Digital Rebel. Does that mean that the EF-S can't be used with other Canon bodies even though all the EF lenses can be used with the Digital Rebel?

I'm not an expert on leses, but as far as I understand it, they CAN be used on the Digital Rebel. A friend of mine has a 35mm Rebel and we took her lens and put it on my camera - it worked fine (I couldn't believe how noisy the drive motor was though!).

The EF-S lens does not fit all other Canon bodies. I have a V1, and the EF-S that came with the Digital Rebel does not fit the V1. The depth of the EF-S lens (at the mount) is deeper than standard lenses, so it hits the mirror in the V1. But, as Jason says, all of the Canon-compatible lenses fit the Dig Rebel, so at least you can carry forward. :D

Jason Dunn

12-10-2003, 01:14 AM

The EF-S lens does not fit all other Canon bodies. I have a V1, and the EF-S that came with the Digital Rebel does not fit the V1. The depth of the EF-S lens (at the mount) is deeper than standard lenses, so it hits the mirror in the V1. But, as Jason says, all of the Canon-compatible lenses fit the Dig Rebel, so at least you can carry forward. :D

Whoops - this shows you how much I know about SLR cameras. :oops: So the EF-S is the new "digital friendly" type of lens that the Digital Rebel comes with? And EF is the normal 35mm lens?

Janak Parekh

12-10-2003, 02:42 AM

Whoops - this shows you how much I know about SLR cameras. :oops: So the EF-S is the new "digital friendly" type of lens that the Digital Rebel comes with? And EF is the normal 35mm lens?
Not even that. No Canon SLR, even the 10D or the 1Ds, can handle the lens that came with your Digital Rebel, Jason. ;) The Digital Rebel is the only camera that can accept EF-S lenses right now, and the lens that comes with it is, to the best of my knowledge, the only EF-S lens in the market. Every other EF lens works with the Digital Rebel and other Canon SLRs, be they digital or otherwise.

From a review I read, the EF-S protrudes into the body more than the EF lenses do, allowing the EF-S lens to be more compact. I'm not an expert, but I read this in detail in a review somewhere. Probably on DPReview. ;)

--janak

cmariotti

12-10-2003, 06:51 AM

Where to Buy
The price point of the Rebel is simply amazing - I paid $1300 CAN for my Canon G2 a little over a year ago, and for only $300 CAN more you can buy a Rebel from a local store - not that I did mind you, because it was cheaper for me to order it when I was in the US. :wink: The Rebel's MSRP is $999 USD for the camera plus a 18-55mm lens, or $899 for the camera body alone. It's a no-brainer to get the body+lens package, because the lens is worth far more than $99 USD alone. Interested in buying a Rebel Digital EOS? State Street Direct (http://www.ssdonline.com/detail_page.cfm?ProductID=8861A001&affid=T99) [Affiliate] has competitive pricing, and you'll be supporting this site if you buy from them.

Okay, was just browsing around the local Futureshop in Kingston, Ontario Canada... Saw they had a Rebel in the display case... The person behind the counter asked me if I needed help... Since it wasn't on display (opened with a price tag), I said, so how much is the Rebel selling for. She said smiling... As of this morning, I have been told the price will drop to $1200 Cdn. I asked if it included the lense, she said yes. So, those shopping in Canada, you should call your local Futureshop to see if it really is going to go down in price that much, so soon.

yslee

12-10-2003, 02:44 PM

From a review I read, the EF-S protrudes into the body more than the EF lenses do, allowing the EF-S lens to be more compact. I'm not an expert, but I read this in detail in a review somewhere. Probably on DPReview. ;)

To add, the EF-S mount is a bit different; I think there's a physical modification that prevents it from being mounted on non EF-S compatible cameras (ie. any EOS camera save the 300D).

The EF-S lens(es, if ever) have a shorter back focus, hence it allows a shorter focal length than normal lenses that need to clear a normal 35mm SLRs mirror box. I'm not sure if it'll form an image circle that covers the area of 35mm film or just the 300D's sensor only.

cchall

12-12-2003, 12:28 AM

I have been waiting for an affordable digital camera from Canon that might accept my Tameron lenses. I have a Canon EOS Elan II with several Tamron lenses. Does anyone know if I could use these with the Rebel EOS digital??? Santa says he will get me this camera for Christmas; so a rapid reply would be great.

Thanks to all!

Chris Hall