Anybody knows of Pocket PC Insurance?

[Mexico]

I used to have my Pocket PC insured through my renter's insurance (scheduled item, about $2.00/month, $50 deductible), but after finding out that making one claim could jeopardize future business with them or any other insurance company, 8O I obviously cancelled it. :cry:

Before that I had Palmlostorstolen, but they went out of business.

Does anybody know of a way to insure Pocket PCs and similar equipment (digital cameras, camcorders, etc.)?

Thanks for your help.

Manuel

[Thinkingmandavid]

I was thinking about that today. I dont know of any myself. Have you done a google search?

[Mexico]

Yes, but I'm not having much luck... :cry:

[PetiteFlower]

Making a claim on Renter's insurance won't affect your future insurability. UNLESS it's something like your apartment burns down and they determine it was YOUR FAULT. Like you can't be penalized for making a claim on your car insurance if the accident was the other guy's fault, or if you make a claim on comprehensive coverage because of a breakin.

Also you shouldn't even need to have it as a separately covered item on the renters insurance, unless it's like an Ipaq 5555 and it was really expensive. Most PDAs are under $500 and should be automatically covered as part of your personal property.

If your insurance company really told you that making any claim would jeopardize your insurability, even if the loss was not your fault, then you should definitely find another insurance company, that sounds false bordering on fraudulent.

[Mexico]

Thanks, PetiteFlower. I thought the same before, but after talking to my current insurer and another one, they both told me the same crap, which is pretty lame.

The articles are indeed covered under the renter's insurance policy, but not against breakage, and the deductible is too high.

I asked State Farm Insurance (not my current insurer) if they gave the same importance to a claim for a lost camera or, let's say, $5,000 worth of stolen goods, and they said pretty much yes. 8O The agent said that if somebody looking for their services has a claim in the last 3 years, they either refuse the service, or provide it with a high deductible.

So, is it worth it to save $200 dollars by replacing your broken/stolen/lost PDA through your insurance company, if such act will put you at risk of either increasing your deductible or not being able to switch insurance company in the future? Not in my case.

I would love it if somebody proves me wrong here, cuz now I'm pretty scared of dropping my 2215 or leaving it somewhere... :(

All this started because I dropped a Canon s200 and the thing broke. So, being that I had it insured for $400, with a $50 deductible, I called my agent and asked them what I had to do to get it replaced, and that's when they told me the "facts." Right after that I cancelled the scheduled insurance for my phone, Pocket PC and camera, and only left my 2 synthesizers.

What I am looking for is something similar to the insurance I have on my mobile phone. $4.00 a month, $35 deductible, and a maximum of 2 claims in a 12 month period. Palmlostorstolen used to offer a similar service (it was actually offered by The Signal), but they're gone.

[famousdavis]

May I step in? ;-)

The type of insurance you're seeking after is, generally speaking, not a wise financial move (it may be a good decision for other reasons, such as for psychological soothing). Insurance is intended to cover a financial loss or exposure when you don't have the financial means to cover that loss or exposure. In most cases, people are able to replace a $200-$600 PPC out of their own resources. That's not to say you WANT to do that, but you probably ought to have thousands of $$$ stashed away for life's emergencies.

I refuse nearly all extended warranties, period. I probably save myself $200 - $300 a year by doing that. With good financial practice, I can beef up my "rainy day savings" and can then easily pay for life's little tragedies.

The bottom line is that insurance works because the insurer is going to reap more money from the insureds than what the insurer is going to pay out. It's money-in-the-bank for the insurer. So rather than pad the insurer's pockets, I choose to pad my own pockets...and hope that in the end, I have a tidy little "rainy day account" as I grow older.

Regards,
famousdavis, RFA

(Registered Financial Associate)

[famousdavis]

Making a claim on Renter's insurance won't affect your future insurability. UNLESS it's something like your apartment burns down and they determine it was YOUR FAULT. Like you can't be penalized for making a claim on your car insurance if the accident was the other guy's fault, or if you make a claim on comprehensive coverage because of a breakin..

PetiteFlower, many -- perhaps most -- insurers negatively view any claim on any policy, irrespective of fault. I can guarantee you that if I get in three accidents with my car in a 12-month period of time -- and in each case I'm not at fault -- I will get dumped by my insurer.

Why? It's all about risk adversity. Insurers view accident-prone people (even if those accidents aren't caused by themselves) as risk-prone and thereby to be avoided.

So, you almost certainly WILL BE "penalized" for making a claim on your car insurance even if you aren't at fault. That's not to say that your insurer won't sustain your coverage the first time you make a claim, but each insurer will have a differing tolerance for how long they wish to hang on to accident-prone, risk-prone insurerds.

[PetiteFlower]

That depends on where you live, famous. I do not believe that insurance companies are allowed to raise your rates because of an accident where you are not at fault, in my state. Can't speak for others, because the laws are so different. Ask someone who lives in Jersey what car insurance is like there ;)

So I called my insurance company tonight, USAA, to see what they said. They said that at least for my policy, I didn't need special coverage for any technology, all that stuff is covered up to the full limit of my policy, including my computer. The only things that had limits that you might need to buy extra coverage for was jewelry, furs, and watches, and cash. Not only that, I found out I'm covered against loss, theft, damage from fire or acts of god, AND accidental breakage! AND I'm covered for replacement cost too, not current value. I was practically ready to kiss the rep on the phone :) My deductible is only $100, and my premium is like $140 for the whole year.

They also told me that their company, at least, would only raise rates for a single claim if it was a very large loss, like a fire or something catastrophic, otherwise they wouldn't change anything unless they started noticing trends. There are VERY strict laws about what they have to go through to cancel or non-renew coverage, and what kind of notifications and warnings they have to give you, it's not like they can do it on a whim, at least in PA. Like I said things vary and some states are more lenient on the insurers.

Anyway I probably will agree with you about getting separate insurance for something like a PDA, unless it's really really cheap; $2-$5 a month really isn't bad if it covers against loss and breakage and covers for replacement cost. But I'm really happy my renters coverage is so good, that's something I have to have anyway, so it's good to know it covers me so well.

USAA is the best insurance company in the world though! If you qualify(you have to have been in the military at some point in your life to qualify, but once you're in, all your descendants for the rest of time will be able to have it--my dad got me in) then DEFINITELY get it, they have very good rates(maybe not THE cheapest but close) and they have hands down the best service anywhere, I've had nothing but joy from them every time I've had to file a claim :)

[famousdavis]

That depends on where you live, famous. I do not believe that insurance companies are allowed to raise your rates because of an accident where you are not at fault, in my state....
USAA is the best insurance company in the world though!

Yes, state laws vary widely. That said, while an insurer may not be able to raise your rate, their response is perhaps even worse for the consumer -- they send you a cancelation or non-renewal notice!

You're right about USAA being a great insurer -- one note, though, is that you or a relative has had to be an OFFICER, not an enlisted personnel, to qualify. I toured USAA's headquarters in San Antonio, TX some years ago -- what a facility! Moreover my sis-in-law was delighted recently when USAA waived all deductibles for those who were affected by the hurricane that hit the eastern seaboard of the US a few months ago.

[Mexico]

Thank you, guys, for the very helpful info. I spoke again to my insurance people (this time to a more realistic person), and they told me that a small claim wouldn't have a great effect.

They are also about to raise the threshold from $250 to $500 for claims that do not affect your record, so that pretty much covers my devices.

I agree with Famous, extended warranties don't make sense, but a $1.20/month insurance with low deductible for a $400 device ain't too bad. :wink:

I guess another factor to consider is how much and under which environments you use your device (and believe me, I use that Pocket PC for everything but showering).

Anywho, thanks a lot to both for the helpful info.

Manuel

[Thinkingmandavid]

I disagree. Extended warranties do make sense. For example I purchase best buys warranty, when something goes wrong wiht mypda they replace my pda. I saved the money of buyinga new one by only spending a little bit more. If i loose itor its stolen no the warranty wont cover that, but it will cover just about everythign else. When you look at warranties you have to look at them in balance. I have a sonyviao laptop, i have used my warranty for them to replace the keyboard, hard drive, mother board(2 times), and the screen. Best buy service plan did the job. It isnt called a warranty by them but it acts the same. Figure thelabor on all of that and parts, it would have been a lot of money.

[famousdavis]

I disagree. Extended warranties do make sense.

Well, I'd liken your experience to someone coming out of a Las Vegas casino insisting that gambling "makes sense" because he won a large sum of money playing blackjack. You can make a convincing argument that way, I agree.

But casinos aren't in business to make people winners -- they're out to take their money, and they do that very handily. Most people will leave Las Vegas much poorer than when they arrived.

Extended warranties function similarly. Companies offer them because they make money on them. They price them to cover their loss claims and they'll add a very healthy profit margin.

I've almost never bought an extended warranty -- my big exception for this rule is when it comes to buying a used car, because most people will have a difficult time paying for huge repair bills related to high-tech vehicles, but even then the decision is iffy. I've had a few electronic devices fail on me -- but replacing them was easy to do.

When I bought the latest Verizon cell phone earlier this year, the device cost $229 (minus a $50 rebate). The salesman practically pled with me to buy an extended warranty; I refused. A few months later, that same exact phone costs $169. It'll only get cheaper as time wears on, so IF I have to replace my phone because I drop it, I'll be able to get one for much less than the original price I paid, and probably only a few dollars more than what my extended warranty would have cost had I bought it.

But I'm betting that I won't lose or break my phone. This is my 4th phone over a 10 year period, and I've never lost or broken one yet. The odds are easily in my favor -- I'll most likely never need an extended warranty, so the $50 extended warranty plan is money-in-my-pocket.

Some people like extended warranties for psychological reasons -- they like knowing that no matter what happens to their device, they'll be made whole by an insurance agreement or warranty. I'm not suggesting that such people ought not to buy extended warranties. There is value in spending money to get piece-of-mind.

But if you want to make the best financial decision regarding extended warranties, then in general, plan on skipping over them.

[sumfunny]

When I think of extended warrenties I think of it in this way my h2210 cast me $550 has warrenty for 1 year, extended warrenty for another year at Futureshop was $130, by the time the first warrenty expires the h2210 will be worth ~$400 so really I just paid $130 to gurantee $400 object and in tech most of the stuff that does go wrong goes wrong early. A lot of them claim that they'll replace your pda but your going to get a refurb most likely and when they claim thet you if they can't fix it you get a better model your pda would have to have the same thing break three times, and they have 30days to fix each problem.

[GoldKey]

Basically, in the long run, you are always better off self-insuring unless you can't afford to replace the item in question. House and cars and life, insurance is good. Extended warranties, postal insurance, blackjack insurance - bad deals.

[Thinkingmandavid]

When I bought the latest Verizon cell phone earlier this year, the device cost $229 (minus a $50 rebate). The salesman practically pled with me to buy an extended warranty; I refused. A few months later, that same exact phone costs $169. It'll only get cheaper as time wears on, so IF I have to replace my phone because I drop it, I'll be able to get one for much less than the original price I paid, and probably only a few dollars more than what my extended warranty would have cost had I bought it.

The was cheaper because as we know as technology becomes older it gets cheaper. YOu will only get the phone at a cheap price when you renew your contract or add a line. Otherwise the cost is higher. So fi you are in the middle of your contract, 6moths, and youhave another 6 to go, you would not qualify for the smaller price. :wink: So that is inaccurate, only because I work for a cell phone company. The extended warranty keeps you from spending extra money LATER ON. Cell phone companies dont have warranties that you add, it is insurance. Check it out, there is a difference. That is why there is a deductable and a monthly
premium. :wink:
But if you want to make the best financial decision regarding extended warranties, then in general, plan on skipping over them.


That is incorrect again...if you want to replace your ipac because it quit working by buying another one go ahead. if you want to have it covered so if it quits working they give you anohter one, buy the warranty.

best buy does not give refurbished, nor do they send of pda's, they replace then nad there. lot of them claim that they'll replace your pda but your going to get a refurb most likely and when they claim thet you if they can't fix it you get a better model your pda would have to have the same thing break three times, and they have 30days to fix each problem.

[PetiteFlower]

I was pretty sure my dad wasn't an officer, he was in the public health service for a year before I was born, so I checked the USAA web site:

Who's Eligible
Active duty, National Guard and Reserve enlisted personnel, officers and officer candidates, and their dependents are eligible for membership in USAA.

So, officership is not necessary, enlisted is still good :)

Whether insurance makes financial sense depends on how much it costs. $100, or even $50, for a $400 item doesn't make sense. But $1.50 a month, well it would take you about 6 years at that rate before you've paid in as much as the device costs.....so if you make ONE CLAIM in 6 years, you've at least broken even, and if you DON'T have to make a claim, you're not out that much money.

Insurance isn't the same as an extended warantee though, I never get those. Manufacturer's is plenty good for me!

[Kati Compton]

The was cheaper because as we know as technology becomes older it gets cheaper. YOu will only get the phone at a cheap price when you renew your contract or add a line. Otherwise the cost is higher. So fi you are in the middle of your contract, 6moths, and youhave another 6 to go, you would not qualify for the smaller price. :wink:
In that case, the phone would probably be under regular warranty still.

That is incorrect again...if you want to replace your ipac because it quit working by buying another one go ahead. if you want to have it covered so if it quits working they give you anohter one, buy the warranty.
Again, first there's the issue of how long you want to have the unit, and if that will be longer than the existing warranty. But by getting the warranty, you're actually betting that something will go wrong with your PDA (beyond the regular warranty). Otherwise, you're paying for nothing.

So if it's a $50 one-year warranty and a $500 ipaq, then in order for the warranty to make sense (assuming the price WON'T go down on the ipaq), this is the question you're looking at, in equation form:

<% chance problem> * $500 >= $50 ?

For your argument, you want it to be cheaper to pay $50 for the warranty than to buy a new ipaq. For this particular case, it makes sense to get the warranty if you think there's AT LEAST a 10% chance something will go wrong with your PDA that the regular warranty won't cover, but the extended warranty will. Otherwise, economics says that in the long run it's cheaper just to replace the PDA yourself if something goes wrong.

To see this equation at work: say you buy 20 PDAs @ $500 each. You buy the extended warranty on all of them, $50 each, for a total of $1000. One (5%) goes bad. You've lost $500 buying the extended warranties in order to get that one replaced. You're better off putting $50 in a special savings account every time you buy a PDA, and using that money (if you need to) to replace any that stop working.

This is a simplified version of the situation, true, but adding complexities like the price of the PDA going down over time would just strengthen the case AGAINST the warranty. Plus there's the issue of stores starting to get a little tougher on what they will or will not do under the warranty.

Bottom line is: Stores wouldn't offer extended warranties if they didn't make money off of them. And the money they make off of those warranties comes from the consumers who purchase them.

[famousdavis]

...by the time the first warrenty expires the h2210 will be worth ~$400 so really I just paid $130 to gurantee $400 object and in tech most of...

At Costco yesterday, the iPAQ 2215 was selling for $359!! :-)

[famousdavis]

I was pretty sure my dad wasn't an officer, he was in the public health service for a year before I was born, so I checked the USAA web site:

So, officership is not necessary, enlisted is still good :)

Interesting!

I visited the site, and tried going through a mock registration (pretending to be my WWII vet Dad). It wound up telling me I need to contact them for more information.

USAA historically only allowed officers to join. Perhaps they've relaxed that stance?

I'll try emailing them for details...thanks PetiteFlower!! :-)

[famousdavis]

So if it's a $50 one-year warranty and a $500 ipaq, then in order for the warranty to make sense (assuming the price WON'T go down on the ipaq), this is the question you're looking at, in equation form:

<% chance problem> * $500 >= $50 ?



Interesting approach, Kati. However, I'd suggest that insurance and extended warranties of any sort only make sense if you are unable to bear the cost of the loss yourself.

In the above formula, if I believed that there was a 20% chance of unit failure, I'd STILL bypass the extended warranty because I can bear the loss of a $500 PPC (of course, if I really thought that my PDA would have a 20% chance of failure, I'd probably not buy it in the first place!).

Interestingly, I just got my copy of Consumer Reports for December, and they have an article on extended warranties. Their advice? Avoid them UNLESS you are buying one for a treadmill or laptop computer.

[Thinkingmandavid]

In that case, the phone would probably be under regular warranty still.

Actually, the warranty from the manufacturer is very limited, as an example the battery is one of those very limited items.

I understand what you are saying kati, at the same time since none of us knows if we got a bad pda or not, or if we got a pda that may go bad in 6 months or 9, if we take the chance nad not buy the service plan, then we for sure will shell out a few hundred bucks. If we go ahead and spend say the 39.99 at best buy, then at least it is a back up plan. so it is actually 40 versus 300, just as may not go bad versus may go bad....the variables will always keep changing but the fact remains it is about what someone had said in a previous post, peace of mind. Maybe i will use the 39.99 and maybe not, but I dont mind spending the 39.99 in case my ppc goes bad. I use best buy as the example because it is 39.99 for that price range of a ppc service plan.

you're actually betting that something will go wrong with your PDA (beyond the regular warranty). Otherwise, you're paying for nothing.

mmm, we are talking about technology here :wink: as much as we read about complaints on this forum, it is something to think about.

[famousdavis]

...it is about what someone had said in a previous post, peace of mind.

That was my point earlier in this thread. Money matters are not (or should not be) about how to maximize your net worth. Sometimes the decision is purely what makes the best financial sense. Sometimes the decision is made for other reasons. Peace of mind is valuable, and as such, it's worthwhile to spend money to achieve peace of mind.

In your example, spending $39.99 at Best Buy may not be the right financial decision (for reasons alluded to earlier in this thread), but it may be the best decision because of the peace of mind it brings to the purchaser.

With my financial planning background, I generally try to guide people into making decisions that balance what's good for their bank account balances with what's good for their lives. It's never a very easy thing to juggle, as you can well imagine.

[Kati Compton]

I understand what you are saying kati, at the same time since none of us knows if we got a bad pda or not, or if we got a pda that may go bad in 6 months or 9, if we take the chance nad not buy the service plan, then we for sure will shell out a few hundred bucks. If we go ahead and spend say the 39.99 at best buy, then at least it is a back up plan. so it is actually 40 versus 300
It's only 40 vs. 300 IF you use the warranty. If you don't use the warranty, it's 40 vs. 0. So my equation still stands. It's how probability and economics work. However, if it makes you feel better, or you know you can afford $40 now but won't be able to pay $300 later if something does go wrong, then that's a benefit that can't be quantified in the equation.

It doesn't change the fact that if you PDA does NOT have anything go wrong with it, you're giving money to the seller.

Here's an interesting question: How expensive would an extended warranty on a $500 PDA have to be to make you feel it's not worth the money? $100? $200?

[PetiteFlower]

Here's an interesting question: How expensive would an extended warranty on a $500 PDA have to be to make you feel it's not worth the money? $100? $200?

Even $50 would probably be too much for me. I'd probably get it if it was $20.

[Thinkingmandavid]

I paid 29.99 for my service plan at best buy. Not a warranty so that is important. I typed about it in some thread on here.
I understand what you are saying about the economis.
I simply coming from the view point that I dont know if it will or wont go bad, sosince it is impossible to know that about any ppc from any company, the service plan acts as a 'protection'. If it goes bad glad I spent the money, if it doesnt, then oh well. NOt because i have money all over the place, but thinking future possibility.
While there is certain amount of economics there is also probability. Like anything there is no guarantees. I am not saying that those who dont get it wrong, I am saying if I spend 500 for a pda something can still go wrong with it and the manufacturers warranty is limited. I have seen a lot of pda's go back to best buy and people get them replaced. Bad screen, wont hold charge, wont turn on,etc. not refurbished brand new. For me it is easily worth 29.99 :wink:

[Kati Compton]

While there is certain amount of economics there is also probability.
The economics ACCOUNTS for the probability. Note that in my equation there's "% chance PDA will fail". That is probability. That's already accounted for.

For me it is easily worth 29.99 :wink:
Then that's fine. But you should be aware that you might be spending more money than you would have if you didn't buy the warranty/service plan.

[Thinkingmandavid]

I know there is always the "if" factor. I am sure kati you could probably give me the % of ppc's that have to serviced to those that dont have to be serviced :wink: The problem is, which % do I end up in? The first or last?
I am not disagreeing with you kati i am only bringing a different view. YOu may never buy one and "if" somethign went wrong with your Axim you would probably have no problem going and buying anohter ppc. "IF" something went wrong wiht my Toshiba I want to have future $$ easier to deal with. I am thinking long term future tense. :wink:
financial will very from person to person.

[Kati Compton]

:huh: I give up.

[Racer-X]

I am thinking long term future tense. :wink:

You should be thinking "over insurance."

[PetiteFlower]

And hey if knowing that he won't have to worry if he'll have the money to replace his PPC if it does break, at the time when he needs it, is worth that $30, then who are we to say him nay? Not my money.... :)

[Kati Compton]

And hey if knowing that he won't have to worry if he'll have the money to replace his PPC if it does break, at the time when he needs it, is worth that $30, then who are we to say him nay? Not my money.... :)
Of course. I had mentioned that this was a situation that could make it "worth it" even if the straight math of it didn't.

[famousdavis]

Much of this discussion revolves around one's personal willingness to assume risk. Risk vs. Reward. I risk having to replace my PPC if it fails at a cost of hundreds of $$$. My reward for taking that risk is I get to keep my $30 or $40 that it would cost to buy an extended warranty.

I'm comfortable with reasonable risk. I've been fully invested in stocks during the downtown of Wall Street beginning in 2000. I believe in the long run, my reward will be I'll have a bigger pot of gold in retirement than if I played it safely.

Some people are so risk adverse, that they will gladly pay someone else to assume their risk of loss, even when the loss amount is relatively very small. So, for some, paying $30 to give the risk of losing their $400 PPC is a fine deal -- that person is happier and has peace-of-mind. Money well spent, then. Better to spend the $30 and feel "safe" than keeping $30 in your pocket and feeling anxious about losing one's precious PPC.

Of course, risk adverse people are not likely to be as prosperous, financially speaking, as those who are prudently more risk tolerant. Risk tolerant people tend to bully risk adverse people for not being willing to take more risks in life -- and that's usually unfortunate, because a person can't become risk tolerant just because someone tells them to (at least, not without some measure of anxiety).

So I think we're all happy here, yes? And we've chewed the fat about as well as we can, correct? :-)

[Thinkingmandavid]

I am glad we all have different opinions :)
I feel future tense is the service plan because it lasts two years. I hope to get a new ppc by one years time, but who knows :wink:

[ctmagnus]

I am glad we all have different opinions :)
I feel future tense is the service plan because it lasts two years. I hope to get a new ppc by one years time, but who knows :wink:

Personally, I go for the three year warranties and upgrade every two years. But the warranty thing may change depending on if I use it with the 5550. By the time I had my 3670 as long as I've had my 5550, it had already been in for warranty repair twice. Things are looking good for the 5550 so far, with the exception of a smill dint on the lower-front edge.

[Kati Compton]

Good explanation, famousdavis. :)

And I'll take that as a hint to stop trying to "bully". :razzing: