Details Being Released On Next Version Of Windows Mobile

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,4270">http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,4270</a><br /><br />Robert Levy of our sister site Smartphone Thoughts is at the Microsoft Professional Developers Conference this week and they are releasing some interesting tidbits of info.<br /><br />"In the overview “Developing for Windows Mobile” session at Microsoft’s Professional Developers Conference, James Pratt touched very briefly on something that developers will want to think about in designing their Windows Mobile applications: new display capabilities for next generation Windows Mobile devices."<br /><br />• Pocket PC will support VGA (640x480), “square”, and “standard” resolutions in both landscape and portrait modes. :rock on dude!: <br />• Smartphone will support QVGA (320x240) and the current “standard” resolution. (Wow!)<br /><br />"Rumor has it that this (and others) will be discussed in more depth during other sessions this week. I’ll refrain from analysis until after more details have been announced, but suffice it to say that this is going to be a huge step in the evolution of the Windows Mobile platform."<br /><br />Stay tuned to both Pocket PC Thoughts and Smartphone Thoughts this week as more information becomes available.

[dacs29]

Finally! That's all I can say. Now I think I'll keep my 3835, which I just recently upgraded to WM 2003, and wait until WM 2004 to purchase a new device. :)

David

[Jimmy Dodd]

So what is "square" mode? 240x240? 320x320? 480x480? 640x640? 1 in x 1 in?

[Jonathon Watkins]

:mrgreen: ALL RIGHT! About time too. :? Any word of when in 2004 2004 will arrive? :wink:

Would “square”, and “standard” be another way of saying "portrait" and "landscape"? I certainly hope so!

[ricksfiona]

Wow, the official sanctioning of VGA support will be welcomed by many.

I guess I have to see the benefits of such a high resolution since I'm more interested in processing power, internal storage and battery life. The resolution I get while viewing movies on my 3870 is fine.

Once you get my 3 issues to a certain point (double the processor and internal storage and you're there), you can have a docking station at home and work and use it as your PDA as the primary computing device. The version of Word on the Pocket PC doesn't suffice for everyday kinda stuff, but Excel is not too bad. Beef up Textmaker a little more and you're all set.

In my opinion, the resolution can come later. But I'll take what I can get :D

[Eitel]

Since I know someone is going to ask this question, let's just get it out of the way.

Does anyone know if my 2215 can be upgraded to 2004?? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[dh]

WM2004 looks as though it is going to be much better than the OS we have now.

Looks as though the trusty X5 is going to have to last me for longer than I expected. I see little point in buying a new WM2003 device that will not support the enhanced screen resolution, even if the manufacturer offers upgrades to the new OS.

I'm sure that devices using the new OS will also have the faster processors, better storage options and (hopefully) longer battery life as Rick mentions as well.

Hope it's January 2004 for release, but I'm sure it will be much later in the year.

[popabawa]

AK! And my new 2210 arrives tomorrow.

Better start saving up for 2004 already....

[FredMurphy]

Excellent! :D I miss the rumours and wild conjecture we had in the run up to the release of PPC2003. More fun than the OS itself.

[PR.]

My self made Desktop OS > Mobile OS continues to be right :)

PPC 2000 - Windows 95 (New UI over previous OS)
PPC 2002 - Windows 98 (Same base UI but made more pretty and more features)
PPC 2003 - Windows ME (More new techh included)
PPC 2004? - Windows 2000 (Yumm) :D

[toxostoma]

Do we know if the OS will support changes between portrait and landscape modes natively (meaning no soft reset?)

Also, PR, I'd say WM 2003 is more like NT 4.0 than WinMe. In WM2003, they did a pretty major overhaul of the core OS, converting it to CE.NET if I'm not mistaken.

[powder2000]

I think this type of news will shape the next year of the pocket pc market. We could see a drop in demand by many people holding off for a new, high res unit. I know I will wait.

[possmann]

l was ready to buy the new XDA device when it hits the us but i guess I'll wait until l hear more abut the New products supporting the 2004 release which probably isn't going to happen until next year this time.--
sigh

[cmorris]

My self made Desktop OS > Mobile OS continues to be right :)

PPC 2000 - Windows 95 (New UI over previous OS)
PPC 2002 - Windows 98 (Same base UI but made more pretty and more features)
PPC 2003 - Windows ME (More new techh included)
PPC 2004? - Windows 2000 (Yumm) :D

I would be more inclined to compare PPC 2003 to Windows 2000. Remember that Windows 2000 and Windows 98 more or less looked the same, but the change was below in changing from the 9x-based kernel and subsystems to the NT-based ones. That is similar to changing the underpinnings from CE 3.0 to 4.2 as happened in PPC 2002 to 2003.

I think WM 2004 is going to be more like XP - where a lot of the more "visible" changes (UI, usability, etc.) are enhanced on the same core.

[Marcel_Proust]

I think this type of news will shape the next year of the pocket pc market. We could see a drop in demand by many people holding off for a new, high res unit. I know I will wait.

Yes. Funny. Palm made that mistake. I'm going to hold off buying that new Toshiba now.

[cmariotti]

It's sad that we know where this is going, but we refuse to recognize and move toward it. Instead, we waste time celebrating a minor move.

It's just grand that it supports 640 x 480... but.

Why would they be building this new resolution into the system and not build in support for any resolution?

I mean, today, 640 x 480 seems good... but 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, etc... They should all be part of the supported resolutions...

Ultimately, we know where this is going... in 5 years or less this sucker is going to be cradled and I want my 21" monitor to pop-up my Pocket PC (not my 3 inch screen)... I don't want it looking like crap either at 640 x 480... That is where the development time should be spent...

Resolution shouldn't be "supported", resolutions shouldn't be an issue at all. PocketPC WILL be your primary computer system that you take with you, with multiple viewing devices (built-in or external screens)

Regards,

Chuck

[Fishie]

It's sad that we know where this is going, but we refuse to recognize and move toward it. Instead, we waste time celebrating a minor move.

It's just grand that it supports 640 x 480... but.

Why would they be building this new resolution into the system and not build in support for any resolution?

I mean, today, 640 x 480 seems good... but 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, etc... They should all be part of the supported resolutions...

Ultimately, we know where this is going... in 5 years or less this sucker is going to be cradled and I want my 21" monitor to pop-up my Pocket PC (not my 3 inch screen)... I don't want it looking like crap either at 640 x 480... That is where the development time should be spent...

Resolution shouldn't be "supported", resolutions shouldn't be an issue at all. PocketPC WILL be your primary computer system that you take with you, with multiple viewing devices (built-in or external screens)

Regards,

Chuck

Actually it is, one of the reasons we get 8 houres of battery life out of such tiny devices is becouse hardware is incredibly standardised with many requirements edged in stone, leave the standardisation and you would need a much bigger OS with more memory and support for parts wich might not even be included in the hardware you buy but are included nontheles just in case, wich is what happens with desktops and laptops.
The PPC is NOT a desktop or laptop so it shouldnt be build and treated as one at the expense of memory, price and batterylife.

[sixsixty]

I mean, today, 640 x 480 seems good... but 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, etc... They should all be part of the supported resolutions...


Chuck

i don't agree. i think 480x640 is a perfect resolution for a handheld device. i don't see the need for it to be any higher at all.

when cradled and viewed on a different monitor, sure, that can be higher. but, for actual use on the handheld screen, 480x640 is perfect.

[surur]

i don't agree. i think 480x640 is a perfect resolution for a handheld device. i don't see the need for it to be any higher at all.



Just remember, 640k should be enough for everyone :lol:

Surur

[petvas]

WM2004 will be available by the end of 2004. Do not expect to see anything before November 2004. New devices will come by the first quarter of 2005, so why wait and not get all great things WM2003 offers?
WM2004 will support changing from Portrait to Landscape mode with no reset needed...
WM2004 will support pixel doubling techniques for compatibility with current applications. The user will have the ability to disable pixel doubling for specific applications...
Do not ask me anything else about WM2004. It will be a MAJOR release...

[Cortex]

i wonder if toshiba had the inside scoop?

think they will support the upgrade in 2005?

[CESkins]

Do not ask me anything else about WM2004. It will be a MAJOR release
petvas are you a beta tester for WM2004 (or you can't commit to revealing this info).
wonder if toshiba had the inside scoop? think they will support the upgrade in 2005?
I believe that Toshiba will support the upgrade in 2005...it will be called the e806 available for a mere $600. ;)

[GadgetDave]

Saw a demo yesterday that showed a WM2003 device (XDA 2, I think) with the "rotate" option - click and apply. No soft reset. Rotates both ways, and there's hooks for app devs in it (so you can resize or re-layout your windows).

[Thinkingmandavid]

Ilike the idea of landscap mode and it about dam time! :!:
more resolution isnt going to hurt. be like a desk top :?: I doubt it and dont see why you would need that, that is the reason for such small notebooks such as the so wonderful and awesome Fujitsu p1000 :!: :!:

[Janak Parekh]

petvas are you a beta tester for WM2004 (or you can't commit to revealing this info).
Well, for what it's worth, I believe he works for Microsoft. :)

--janak

[doogald]

My self made Desktop OS > Mobile OS continues to be right :)

PPC 2000 - Windows 95 (New UI over previous OS)
PPC 2002 - Windows 98 (Same base UI but made more pretty and more features)
PPC 2003 - Windows ME (More new techh included)
PPC 2004? - Windows 2000 (Yumm) :D

You forgot Palm Size PC - DOS/Win 3.1

But I think that PPC2003 is better than WinME...

[guinness]

I'll believe it when I see it, just like Longhorn.

[petvas]

I can't say anything else about WM2004. Yes, I do work for Microsoft 8)
Of course in this forum I only represent my personal opinions and not Microsoft's... Always have that in your mind...

[possmann]

l agree with Fishie regarding his comments that the Pocket PC is not a laptop replacement although l have used it as such on smaller business trips. Now with my tabletPC l find myself really focused on replacing my cell with a pocketpc phone or smart phone and really want more focus (developer) on ease of use, connectivity and integration as well as battery life for these types of devices. The increase in resolution is great so long as battery life doesn't suffer because of it.

Not understanding all the code that goes behind screen resolutions, how difficult is it to create a screen driver with higher resolution capacity? Or is it also a hardware issue where My current pocketpc screen cannot display more than 320 by 240 pixels regardless of driver enhancements?

[cmariotti]

Actually it is, one of the reasons we get 8 houres of battery life out of such tiny devices is becouse hardware is incredibly standardised with many requirements edged in stone, leave the standardisation and you would need a much bigger OS with more memory and support for parts wich might not even be included in the hardware you buy but are included nontheles just in case, wich is what happens with desktops and laptops.
The PPC is NOT a desktop or laptop so it shouldnt be build and treated as one at the expense of memory, price and batterylife.

No offence...

I disagree about your assumptions about more memory and parts. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. Windows CE does this already to an extent... with good battery life.

If you've been in technology for any length of time, you know where this is all going... I can't believe you just said PPC is NOT a desktop... I guess you are also going to say, it is NOT a phone either? Or a camera? Or an MP3 player... Or a video player... Or a video recorder... or Audio Recorder... Or Video Game machine... Sure sounds like it's heading that way... The "Desktop" is also heading towards the size factor of Pocket PC. The "Desktop" as you put it will win this battle if you stay happy with 640 x 480....

I am suggesting that PocketPC is a device that should interface to any video display (regardless of size, type or resolution) and any input device (keyboard, etc...)... Displays are displays... why limit development/APIs? Flexibility is the key and resolution/display support will be a major bottleneck in progressing this futher...

[jnunn]

WM2004 will be available by the end of 2004. Do not expect to see anything before November 2004. New devices will come by the first quarter of 2005...
OK, Plato, rain on our parade. Did someone at Delphi tell you that or how did you get such depressing information? Seriously, though, most OS releases come out mid year so why should 2004 be different? From history I would expect the OS to be out by late spring and devices to be out by early summer like in y2000 and subsequent years.

[petvas]

WM2004 will be available by the end of 2004. Do not expect to see anything before November 2004. New devices will come by the first quarter of 2005...
OK, Plato, rain on our parade. Did someone at Delphi tell you that or how did you get such depressing information? Seriously, though, most OS releases come out mid year so why should 2004 be different? From history I would expect the OS to be out by late spring and devices to be out by early summer like in y2000 and subsequent years.

You should read my posts more carefully...

[B]

As long as everyone is talking future Windows Mobile tech I thought the following was at least sort-of on topic. A review for Microsoft Voice Command for Pocket PC accidentally leaked by Handango and expanded upon by Geekzone. Looks like it will adds to the functionality and capabilities of the PocketPC by simplifying some common user interactions.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=1679

The original slashdot article (lots of jeers, but there is some extra info burried in there):

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/10/28/1710229.shtml?tid=137&tid=184

[egads]

New devices will come by the first quarter of 2005, so why wait and not get all great things WM2003 offers?


The only thing I see that WM2003 offers is Bubblets is included :D

WM2003 and the hardware coming (or receintly announced) has not even given me the slightest itch to want to go out and get an new PPC to replace my Axim X5. I was half tempted to ditch PPC and go with a Sony, but now I'm happy to wait till 2005 and see what shakes out ...

[jnunn]

You should read my posts more carefully...
Forgive me, wise one, but your second post post was not up yet while I was pondering your first. Even though the Oracle at MicroSoft suggests to you that 2005 is the device release time I doubt it entirely.

That would mean the PPC OEMs would miss TWO holiday seasons before they can sell devices. Certainly, no one without dire need would buy a new PPC when they know what is coming around the corner. MS just broke a fundamental rule of marketing by shorting their existing product line. I can only imagine that the T3 is the reason why that have done so.

Perhaps HP and others will release VGA screens earlier in 2004 like Toshiba with the promise of OS upgrade (unlike Toshiba) when it is released.

[petvas]

Stop being so aggresive...
I just know the estimated RTM Date for WM2004. New devices will come at least one month after it, so it could be Christmas or a month or two later... Is it clear now?

[AZMark]

You should read my posts more carefully...
MS just broke a fundamental rule of marketing by shorting their existing product line. I can only imagine that the T3 is the reason why that have done so.

They didn't do a public announcement. They were clueing in developers. Cuz if they didn't some dorks who like to spew on formus such as these would complain that none of their old apps were working on the new OS, and no new applications take advantage of the new features anyway.

All OS manufactures do this because having developer support is very key into gaining market acceptance. Remember that "There are 1000's of apps available on Palm" spew that Palm used to dish out as a reason to buy Palm instead of PPC. It was valid and did work for a long time.

Sometimes Marketing 101 doesn't cover all the fine details of how to deliver products to market in the post Internet boom age.

[PJE]

I am suggesting that PocketPC is a device that should interface to any video display (regardless of size, type or resolution) and any input device (keyboard, etc...)... Displays are displays... why limit development/APIs? Flexibility is the key and resolution/display support will be a major bottleneck in progressing this futher...

I agree that PocketPC should support any resolution supported by the hardware. I'd like to have a 640x480 screen when mobile and then be able to plug in a 1024x768 or bigger LCD monitor at home. I wouldn't be playing games on it, but for reading email/newsgroups/etc.. it would be fine.

The main reason for not claiming support for higher resolutions is that it would eat into PC sales. For a lot of people a PocketPC type device connected to a higher resolution display would perform their email/web surfing/wordprocessing (TextMaker) without buying a PC/Office. Microsoft makes most of its money selling Office... they don't want to kill the cash cow.

My 2c

[jnunn]

Petvas, please forgive my persistence here. I was being playfully inquisitive and I regret that it was interpretted otherwise.

Still, I think that devices that can support the VGA capable OS will be out earlier in 2004 with the promise of OS upgrade when it is released. I recall in an earlier thread how someone mentioned that two OEMs are planning VGA screens in May 2004. I imagine that those device releases are in anticipation of the the 2004 OS release.

Hence, we should not have to wait until 2005 to buy a VGA capable PPC that will upgrade to the 2004 OS. And as attractive as the new PPC lines are, I would only buy one if my current PPC died. We can probably thank the T3 for saving us some cash.

[petvas]

Petvas, please forgive my persistence here. I was being playfully inquisitive and I regret that it was interpretted otherwise.

Still, I think that devices that can support the VGA capable OS will be out earlier in 2004 with the promise of OS upgrade when it is released. I recall in an earlier thread how someone mentioned that two OEMs are planning VGA screens in May 2004. I imagine that those device releases are in anticipation of the the 2004 OS release.

Hence, we should not have to wait until 2005 to buy a VGA capable PPC that will upgrade to the 2004 OS. And as attractive as the new PPC lines are, I would only buy one if my current PPC died. We can probably thank the T3 for saving us some cash.

Yes, devices might come earlier but the OEMs have trouble supporting many OS Images, so I would never buy a device with a "promised" upgrade to Magneto (the codename of WM2004). OEMs have to test their new device under the new OS and that costs money and time...

[jnunn]

Sometimes Marketing 101 doesn't cover all the fine details of how to deliver products to market in the post Internet boom age.
Mark, you raised a very good point. However, the proximity of this information leak to the release of the T3 is curious. Regardless of why the information is out, I am just very happy that it is. I was holding out for some sign of a screen resolution increase and this is very welcome news.

[Duncan]

Perhaps HP and others will release VGA screens earlier in 2004 like Toshiba with the promise of OS upgrade (unlike Toshiba) when it is released.

That is exactly what is going to happen. I don't know when WM2004 will be released exactly but I would trust petvas to be right (he has been in the past). I do know that at one time MS suggested an early Summer release for WM2004 to OEMs. It may be a case of a flexible (keep 'em guessing?) deadline - perhaps with MS sticking to a pessimistic date while keeping the hope of an earlier one.

This I can also say for certain though - at least two manufacturers (with a better history of support than Toshiba...) are planning early/mid-Summer 2004 VGA Pocket PCs that are specifically designed to be WM2004 ready (i.e. guaranteed upgrades - though the very embryonic plans I've seen have allowed for the possibility of the devices being released with the new OS already installed). That's one reason why the current e800 mania has been so laughable! You'll note that this strategy will allow MS and the OEMs to have the best of both worlds - summer release models with a big selling point for the OEMs and a later WM2004 launch to keep up the momentum.

If I was feeling cynical (and believed *cough* that major corporations would be inclined to play such games) - I might think that MS revealed the VGA in WM2004 (which has not been the best kept of secrets - believe me...!!) as much to spite Toshiba as to put the spanner into Palm's plans... (and, while my sources ar most certainly biased, I'm led to believe that MS are not feeling too friendly towards Toshiba on the PDA front right now...!). I'm not sure if I'm seriously suggesting that MS would be so petty mind! :)

As for queering the pitch for current release models - there is always something better coming up - MS knows people won't hang around and wait for the next thing if seriously good devices are coming out now - and there are several such PPCs just released or coming soon...

[Duncan]

I recall in an earlier thread how someone mentioned that two OEMs are planning VGA screens in May 2004. I imagine that those device releases are in anticipation of the the 2004 OS release.

Yep - that was me! (and I am *VERY* certain of my info). :)

[Hooked]

Toshiba had an expansion pack with the e740/e755 that made it possible to do VGA out.For WM2004, the manufacturers could put something like that in the cradle to allow SVGA output to an external monitor without a huge impact to the power requirements because it would be running off of external power at that point.

Now if they could also include USB ports (for access to external storage, printers, mouse, and keyboard) in the cradle to create a true docking station, then a large number of people wouldn't even buy notebook or tablet computers....but I guess that's why it will never happen.

Still, I would like to see a connector between my Dell Axim and the new DellDJ Player, so that I could use the DellDJ as an external storage device for the Axim (files, mp3, divx,...) Better yet, include Wi-Fi in the DellDJ so I don't need the cable.

[wbuch]

Now if they could also include USB ports (for access to external storage, printers, mouse, and keyboard) in the cradle to create a true docking station, then a large number of people wouldn't even buy notebook or tablet computers....but I guess that's why it will never happen.


See, I don't think the competition with desktops/notebooks is a reason why they won't do it. The problem is that if they did that, Palm would still head that direction, and MS doesn't want Palm to corner the PDA desktop-replacement market. That's the great thing about capitalism where consumers are concerned -- someone will end up doing it, and then everyone else will be forced to as well.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Excellent! :D I miss the rumours and wild conjecture we had in the run up to the release of PPC2003. More fun than the OS itself.

Oh yes - I remember that - majorly! :lol:

[huangzhinong]

Palm would still head that direction, and MS doesn't want Palm to corner the PDA desktop-replacement market.

How does palm dominate PDA desktop-replacement market? It's my first time here about this. So horrible if all my world is just .pdb and single task.

[beq]

OK I'm not up on the minutiae these days. I have to wait until summer '04 for a small/thin VGA PPC Phone Edition with BT/WiFi/3G, SD/CF, and miniUSB Host (or USB2Go)? :D

[pgh1969pa]

Petvas, please forgive my persistence here. I was being playfully inquisitive and I regret that it was interpretted otherwise.

Still, I think that devices that can support the VGA capable OS will be out earlier in 2004 with the promise of OS upgrade when it is released.

And who should we believe...you or him! People complain that MS doesn't hear us & participate in these forums and when someone does drop a nugget on us, we complain & question the information. The next OS is a ways away there are some good WM2003 devices out there. Enjoy today!

[Balsky]

"Details Being Released On Next Version Of Windows Mobile"?

I would love to have them fix the alarm bug that makes Pocket PCs useless to some people first.

I downgraded my 3970 to 2002 again to be able to use the alarm functions.

-Balsky.

[Jereboam]

The upgrade in display resolution I think will fundamentally enhance the device. I can't wait. I hope the inbuilt apps are decently upgraded to match the new OS/hardware...I think I'm going to save a copy of my gripes thread and see how many of them are done away with in 2005... ;)

Thanks for the info, petvas.

J'bm

[robert_biggs]

I would love to have them fix the alarm bug that makes Pocket PCs useless to some people first.

I downgraded my 3970 to 2002 again to be able to use the alarm functions.

-Balsky.

I agree. This WM2004 better address existing major issues with PPC and not just add a ton more bug-ridden features. I can no longer rely on my PPC to remind me of anything since upgrading to WM2003 and ActiveSync continues to reek havoc on my data and sanity. A stable OS is all I want!

[Duncan]

The WM2003 Phone Edition (as installed in the O2 XDA II) doesn't suffer from the alarms bug. This makes me think that a fix for the standard WM2003 must be on its way...

[Balsky]

I would love to have them fix the alarm bug that makes Pocket PCs useless to some people first.

I downgraded my 3970 to 2002 again to be able to use the alarm functions.

-Balsky.

I agree. This WM2004 better address existing major issues with PPC and not just add a ton more bug-ridden features. I can no longer rely on my PPC to remind me of anything since upgrading to WM2003 and ActiveSync continues to reak havic on my data and sanity. A stable OS is all I want!

On the other hand, who knows when WM 2004 (or whatever it'll be called) will be released? If it takes as long as WM 2003, then I'd like to have a fix before that.

I see WM 2003 at the moment as an unfinished product, because it basically removes some functionality that was fine in PPC 2002 (my 3970 running 2002 was much more reliable then with WM 2003).

-Balsky.

[GadgetDave]

I agree. This WM2004 better address existing major issues with PPC and not just add a ton more bug-ridden features. I can no longer rely on my PPC to remind me of anything since upgrading to WM2003 and ActiveSync continues to reek havoc on my data and sanity. A stable OS is all I want!

If you look at MS recent history in Desktop OSes, a release like WM2003 (mostly bug fixes, minor updates, and sometimes look/feel) is proceeded/followed by major upgrades. [Basically true for Server OSes (NT4-2000-2003) and Office (2000-XP-2003).]

That implies that WM2004 is a big release - and based on rumor and speculation, that could be correct!

[tsb_hcy]

Duncan-

Why are you so biased against the e805? With the word that Magneto won't arrive until November or later, the e805 makes perfect sense. No waiting 6 months for another VGA device and no waiting a year or more for a VGA OS. By the time Magneto devices hit the shelves it will surely be time to upgrade if it's going to take more than a year. Meanwhile, I'll have used VGA to browse the net for six months before another device offering this ability is out and a year before almost all new devices have this ability. A year is a long, long time in the PPC world. I'm not going to waste that year waiting for the promises of 365 tomorrows. ;)

[Pocket PC Dubai]

The WM2003 Phone Edition (as installed in the O2 XDA II) doesn't suffer from the alarms bug. This makes me think that a fix for the standard WM2003 must be on its way...

Yes! I never came across alarm problems with this device.

[Abba Zabba]

Excellent! :D I miss the rumours and wild conjecture we had in the run up to the release of PPC2003. More fun than the OS itself.

i really miss rumor discussion here at the site also like last year when Dell was debuting their first device and all the talk was about competition and hp.

Anyway, I guess like a bunch of others have said it's time to sit back and wait for the roll out of PPC2k4 as I like to call it.

I wonder why they would allow this to be released so early...or is it being released early. Hopefull we'll have the new OS by March give them time to fix the "bugs."

[Duncan]

Duncan-

Why are you so biased against the e805? With the word that Magneto won't arrive until November or later, the e805 makes perfect sense. No waiting 6 months for another VGA device and no waiting a year or more for a VGA OS. By the time Magneto devices hit the shelves it will surely be time to upgrade if it's going to take more than a year. Meanwhile, I'll have used VGA to browse the net for six months before another device offering this ability is out and a year before almost all new devices have this ability. A year is a long, long time in the PPC world. I'm not going to waste that year waiting for the promises of 365 tomorrows. ;)

Frankly tsb_hcy - you seem desperate for reassurance that your somewhat 'enthusiastic' (almost evangelistic) fervour for the e800 is not misplaced! :) I've given my reasons re. the e800 - as have others. If you choose to ignore them then that is, of course, your right...

[tsb_hcy]

I see you've gone back to not answering like you did before with the Loox 610 question. I guess when you don't have a valid reason, it's all you've got. :roll:

EVERY reason I've seen you mention for not buying the e805 with the exception of not having dual wireless has already been accounted for in favor of the e805 and in opposite of your position, unless of course you really are just biased against Toshiba. Who knows, maybe FSC has you on their finger. :mrgreen:

What I was hoping for is a new argument since almost all of your old arguments (with the exception of dual wireless) are no longer valid in any form.

[Ed Hansberry]

unless of course you really are just biased against Toshiba.
I think a lot of people are biased against Toshiba given their record over the past 2 years with upgrades, or rather, lack of upgrades, especially to those that forked out $600+ for the e740 just 2-3 months before Windows Mobile 2003 came out. Forget about a free upgrade, they won't even offer a for-pay one. :?

[Enderet]

Bleh.... here we go again... Tsb and Duncan(in with Duncan by the way), maybe you two should make your own thread where you two can debate on the e800... :roll:

[Duncan]

Bleh.... here we go again... Tsb and Duncan(in with Duncan by the way), maybe you two should make your own thread where you two can debate on the e800... :roll:

Enderet,

I'm actually refusing to 'debate' with tsb_hcy. He/she can't seem to deal with not being answered on subjects that are either not relevant to the thread at hand (note his/her childish 'suggestions') or which have been covered in detail elsewhere. Not much I can do about someone *that* insecure asking me questions I'm afraid! :lol:

[Kati Compton]

This is the official "Please don't let this thread get out of control" post. ;)

[Duncan]

This is the official "Please don't let this thread get out of control" post. ;)

So - how about that upcoming WM2004 then? :wink:

[Enderet]

I will try not to get too excited about WM2004, because before the release of WM2003...(hehe many of us didnt even know the name was going to be changed :mrgreen: ) I was really excited and wouldnt stop coming to the PPCT site. Ill wait a couple of more months...

Also... the info about WM 2004 devices not being avaible till 4th quarter IS depressing. I was expecting on buying a new PPC and waiting for some six months until the new batch came out(I expected for 2004 to be out in summer :| ), but I guess that wont be. Also... just on a side note, what is this I hear about the new high-end toshiba(800) having 2MB for video? :eek: :drool:

[Hooked]

The e800 has the ATI 2MB Imageon 3220 graphics controller.The Toshiba e740 had the Imageon 100 which only had 384k.The e740 actually posted a number of graphics benchmarks which were lower than many other pda's.The problems were related to the bus rather than the co-processor.

The Imageon will not only allow greater resolution displays, but increased 2-D graphics and MPEG/JPEG decoding.So, better games, presentation, and video.

It will be interesting to see if the Mobile DirectX functionality in WM2004 will be supported by this chip.If so, then Toshiba is further ahead of the game than suspected.

DirectX Mobile + VGA = 3D games on the way.

[gpspassion]

Is it just me or is 640x480 going to look TINY on a 3.5" or 3.8" or even 4} screen?
I tried a GPS program on a 320x320 T2 and quickly had a headache!

[Jonathon Watkins]

Is it just me or is 640x480 going to look TINY on a 3.5" or 3.8" or even 4} screen?
I tried a GPS program on a 320x320 T2 and quickly had a headache!

Nope - I believe you will be able to up the font size - so you can have a very sharp screen with lots of detail.

Personally I have a hack to make my system fonts tiny as it is - as I like tiny scroll bars & fonts - so it's not a problem.

[KH]

I have to weigh in on this, having expressed a great deal of 'Pixel Envy' when some of the Palm based models made it on the scene this year.

I am absolutely loving my 2210. I use it for everything from real-time note taking with Calligrapher to watching videos, mail, Wine Enthusiast look-ups when grocery shopping, games, calender, Maps, Books and MORE Books - you name it. I REALLY hope HP will come out with a more Pixel-rich model by summer - earlier is better - and I WILL buy it. I NEED those pixels, and am totally comfortable that such an IPAQ model would eventually align with the next OS. But if not? If I only get to apply more pixels to limited applications - say, photo viewing? I wouldn't gripe - that's really the main missing link today between me and PDA Nirvana!

I just hope I don't have to wait 5 quarters to GET one!

[tsb_hcy]

Don't wait, get the e805 now. ;)

[Jason Dunn]

I think this type of news will shape the next year of the pocket pc market. We could see a drop in demand by many people holding off for a new, high res unit. I know I will wait.

Only by the geeks that read this site, not by the mainstream market. ;-)

[petvas]

Windows Mobile 2003 offers great features that we all shouldn't forget...
* Speed
* Increased Stability
* Support for Wireless Technologies (WiFi, Bluetooth)
* Increased Security
* Improved Exchange Active Sync
The differences may not seem to be so big, compared to Pocket PC 2002, but they actually are. Try using a PPC2002 device after using WM2003 for a while. So, the actual question for every single user to make is if all these improvements are needed...
I believe that simply waiting for a year to get something even better isn't warranted... Why not wait five more years? WM2008 will be even better...
Operating Systems constantly evolve. This is a daily process that will never stop. The user has to make the choice of when to ride in...

[jnunn]

I believe that simply waiting for a year to get something even better isn't warranted...
I just don't follow the imposed religion of consumerism. My old iPAQ does what I need and I am happy with that until a device comes out that passes a critical threshold of desirability. That threshold includes VGA screen with OS support, small form factor, and standard issues like expansion and memory. Patience is a virtue.

[petvas]

Well, that is my opinion and as I said before, every user has to decide for him/her self when to upgrade...

[Thinkingmandavid]

Considering I just replaces a stolen unit with a Toshiba e355, I am not upgrading for a while. Something really useful and productive will have to come out for me to buy it.
If I was full of money I would have already purchased the Fujitsu Loox :rock on dude!:

[Talon]

VGA will be supported before the release at the end of the next year, there will be a point release between now and then.
In 2004 expect a push towards longer battery life when idle, there's not a lot you can do when the CPU is going flat out but there are big savings possible in idle. Also expect far more emphasis towards games.

[Jonathon Watkins]

VGA will be supported before the release at the end of the next year, there will be a point release between now and then.

So, does that mean that there will be no VGA in mainstream PPCs for another year? Any heads up on what to expect in the point release? How do you know this?

[Talon]

There will be an update to PPC Q1 04, I don't think MS will be charging for the update but I'm not sure. Other than screen resolution support there won't be any significant changes or additions.

&lt;start random speculation>
I wouldn't expect much noise about it. What the manufacturers do will be up to them. A few may make updates avalible, more likely they will simply switch to the new version on units that they ship. But I would expect any manufacturers of VGA screen PDAs to be exceptions and release an update.
&lt;/random speculation>

This is from MS documents infront of me. I'm not going to give any technical details of releases, MS have to many laywers to do that, but screen resolution info is already out there.

[petvas]

Talon is right...

[Jonathon Watkins]

8) Ah, so anyone purchasing a Toshiba unit may not be out on quite such a limb? Now - that Tosh is looking more and more like a viable unit for me. Still, it shouldn't be too long before we hear whispers about the other OEM's VGA units. I wonder what the Dell X7 will be packing....

Cheers for the heads up guys.

[krypticide]

Just got rid of my NR70 Clie...looks like a perfect time to wait and get the ultimate PDA. =)

[Talon]

I hate to go against the trend but has anyone stopped to ask if the extra screen resolution is worth it?
1) a VGA screen will take more power to run an so give lower battery life.
2) A larger percentage of the screen glass will be taken up with the driver transistors so the screen will be less transmissive and less reflective. This means a darker screen without the backlight and burning more power in the backlight for the same brightness inside.
3) A larger, more expensive screen means a larger, heavier and more expensive unit.

Remember, these screens are 4" diagonal so about 3.2" to the long side. That gives a pixels/inch of 200. In other words the same as running a 17 inch monitor at just over 2700x2000
OK so the screen is closer to your eye than a monitor on a deks but even so are you really going to see that much of an improvment?

Personally right now I seen VGA as being a nice idea with very little real benefit and some big downsides.
Same with 128M of SDRAM. No PDA application needs that much ram. Store the programs in a flash card and fit less ram. You'll get a longer standby time, that's where the power goes in standby, and less risk of losing everything. This isn't a PC, it's not like more ram will speed things up.

I'm sure that as new technology comes out things will change but that's where I see things right now.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Well, I use my PPC for viewing and previewing photos - and the extra resolution is really going to be useful. I currently use a hack to set my fonts to a tiny size, but the system isn't totally happy with that. Having small, crisp readable fonts means that a lot more information can be taken at once. I really think it will be an improvement.

Have you seen the screenshots comparing various web pages viewed with Avantgo at 320x240 and 640x480? Case closed for me.

Ok - so the battery may not last as long. I recharge at the end of the every day with over 50% battery left anyway so it's no big deal. I may have to buy an extra battery if I need to go on a trip for any length of time. Such is life.

Point 2 is really the same as point 1 - more battery usage and shorter battery life. The fact that the screen may not be as bright is really neither here nor there. I run my PPC at medium screen brightness anyway - I don't need to have it any higher – and would actually like a lower brightness setting for note taking during dark presentations.

There are certain programs that really should not be run from a flash card. You really benefit from having the extra headroom that 128Mb of RAM brings.

OK - so the units may be larger - but I would really like a 4 inch screen anyway. I wear my X5 on my hip with a clip - so it’s not like I need a tiny unit.

As usual - different strokes for different folks. I for one am really looking forward to VGA resolution screens and feel that it's worth paying a bit extra for it. You may well not and that's fine. That's why Dell has the X3, X5 and X7 etc. Different tools for different tasks and different folks.

For me, VGA is worth it. 8)

[Kevin Daly]

I attended the PDC and naturally ate up all the mobility-related stuff I could find...
Most of the specific details were about the Compact Framework, and details about the next OS were generally given in the context of "We've added this feature and yes the OS will now support it" like the variable resolutions and screen rotations.
There were some very yummy revelations about the "Whidbey" version of the Compact Framework.
I saw a portrait-to-landscape switch demo myself, and it's worthwhile mentioning what was being displayed on the screen: A web browser control, in a Compact Framework application. Expect to see an abundance of mobile RSS aggregators.
Other .NET Compact Framework goodies mentioned include:
- XPath
- XML Serialization (I'm diverging from my usual spelling (-isation) for the benefit of all you North Americans out there)
- Some sort of support for COM interop...in fact I got the impression that this might be added earlier than some of the other stuff, although I could be wrong.
- DateTime and Month pickers
- Doc list control
- The ability to save Bitmaps (and save them as various image types)
- Image rotation
- Pen styles and widths
- Managed code access to the Outlook object model via the ItemStore object (and a separate mail object I think). This also seems consistent with the access to contact information through WinFS in Longhorn.
- A Sensor object used by code running on location-aware devices to obtain access to location information.
- Auto-scrolling Forms.
- Keyboard events
- Compact Framework support added to the .NET SDK (so you won't necessarily need Visual Studio .NET). In related news, the Longhorn version of Windows will apparently include compilers as standard.


Of course this is a planned feature set, and subject to change (plus I'm not certain of the timeframe for all of these features, although I think most if not all are planned for the Whidbey timeframe), but it certainly bears a close resemblance to my wish list.

I freely confess to having done a lot of clapping.
0X

[Talon]

Point 2 is really the same as point 1 - more battery usage and shorter battery life. The fact that the screen may not be as bright is really neither here nor there. I run my PPC at medium screen brightness anyway - I don't need to have it any higher – and would actually like a lower brightness setting for note taking during dark presentations.
Assuming the bulk of your use is indoors that is true. Although the backlight does eat a huge amount of power you can always turn it up to compensate. If on the otherhand you want to use the device outside in bright sunlight then the backlight is fairly meaningless. That is where I would expect the screen to just not be as clear. Obviously this does depend a lot on what you are going to use the thing for.

There are certain programs that really should not be run from a flash card. You really benefit from having the extra headroom that 128Mb of RAM brings.
Who said anything about a flash card. On board storage flash is a far better option. I doubt we'll see 128M become common for a long time, it's only going to be on units that are trying to out spec the competition at the cost of performance.

As you said, everyone looks for different things, we'll just have to see which way the market jumps. To smaller more phone like things or larger higher res. devices.