Toshiba e800 Preview -- Including A 640x480 Shot

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://homepage10.seed.net.tw/web/kennice/MyWeb.zip/1.htm' target='_blank'>http://homepage10.seed.net.tw/web/k...MyWeb.zip/1.htm</a><br /><br /></div>Forums have begin to buzz with the sudden appearance of pictures of a Toshiba e800 in action, including the following shot...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20031018-Toshibae800-large.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20031018-Toshibae800.jpg" /></a><br /><br />(Click the picture for a bigger version, or hit the link above for more pics.) Yes, that is a Windows Mobile 2003 device running at 640x480. 8O I'm sure it's an unsupported resolution in the OS -- <a href="http://www.nyditot.com/Products/NVD/NVDPage.htm">Nyditot Virtual Display</a> has been able to do large virtual screens on Pocket PCs for some time -- but it's never been at this level of sharpness! :drool:

[crazy0000]

Wow when i did this with my Ipaq 3850 it made me scroll the screen to see eevrything thats amazing







P.S. I'm on a journey to answer every new post first itll be tricky but ill try :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

UPDATE: Starting NOW!

[dean_shan]

All I can say is :drool:

[huangzhinong]

wow, we are back to 1999 now.
Palm is smaller: T3 is smaller than e880
Palm is cheaper: T3 is $399 while e800 is $599
Palm's software is more than PPC: There are 10 programs supporting T3 now, but only 4 in E800

PPC has higher resolution: 480*640 while Palm still stay in 320*480
PPC has more memory: E800 has 192Mb memory while T3 only has 64Mb.
PPC is multi-tasking while T3 is one task system.

The only change is both Palm and PPC battery is bad now.

[kiwi]

8O - I've just been playing with MorphGear, the SNES and other console emmulator on my 2210 - I'm imagining playing the games on the larger screen would be so nice.

[darrylb]

What I want to know is what happens to a 320x240 application on a 640x420 screen?

I guess the answer is either much white space or larger than normal controls.

How does one develop for this screen?

[altden2002]

Given that pocketpc2003 does not support such high resolutions, i can already see the future: high resoluion mode will be buggy and most programs where you need it (IE, WMP etc) will not support it. It ill also be very slow and will drain battery faster. When an operating system with proper support comes along, toshiga will NOT offer any updates - you will have to buy a whole new device (which maybe of decent quality actualy, like e750).
I'd rather wait for a device that works from a company which is not dumping its custmers.
:devilboy:

[JonnoB]

Maybe MS is not as strict with things like sreen resolution as reported earlier.

[hoxbox]

Look sgood, should be great for people using Japanese/Chinese/etc since they will be able to read things clearer. Me I don't even use antialiasing on the font on my LCD so probably not useful. Besides I'm dreaming about the iPAQ 6000 since (less resolution + wireless phone ) > (more resolution no wireless phone).

[guinness]

Too bad it's a Toshiba, an HP or something, it'd be worth considering...

[Pocket PC Dubai]

They said the Pocket Pc is Dead!!

They are very wrong :? This Toshiba guy what he was drinking that day! :drinking:

[Janak Parekh]

What I want to know is what happens to a 320x240 application on a 640x420 screen?

I guess the answer is either much white space or larger than normal controls.
Lots and lots of whitespace or large fields. Try running Nyditot -- it'll give you an idea of how it would look.

How does one develop for this screen?
Not easily. :lol: Seriously, my first use of such a screen would be for programs like Acrobat Reader, RepliGo, and Excel, where the additional resolution would be welcome and easy to support.

--janak

[M4X P0W3R]

Argh! Toshiba is like that girlfriend that your friends all tell you to stay away from when you keep going back for more! And all you get is used. Doesn't matter how hot she is, she'll just dump you when you need her most... but she's so hard to resist :cry:

[darrylb]

How does one develop for this screen?
Not easily. :lol: Seriously, my first use of such a screen would be for programs like Acrobat Reader, RepliGo, and Excel, where the additional resolution would be welcome and easy to support.

So we will probably end up with a somewhat segmented software market like the palm market where we will need a check box saying &lt;Supports 320x240> and &lt;Supports 640x480>. Bummer :cry: .

Still it would be a killer for the likes of repligo and PocketBible - both of which I use :wink:

[kabkbak]

i would need 30 to 40 great reviews before getting one
but as for wanting dam that nice 8O

[Janak Parekh]

So we will probably end up with a somewhat segmented software market like the palm market where we will need a check box saying &lt;Supports 320x240> and &lt;Supports 640x480>. Bummer :cry:.
Oh, it's not that bad. Apps that are written for 320x240 may work, just as Windows apps on the desktop can handle different resolutions. However, they may have some artifacts based on the layout mechanism used (and games will almost definitely break).

Still, the transition to a higher resolution is not without its growing pains. If WM2003 had pixel doubling, the experience would be far more seamless -- but it doesn't officially support 640x480 in the first place.

--janak

[mattsmith0622]

I played around with one of these Toshiba's about a week ago. A gal that works in my office is engaged to a Toshiba project manager. The screen on this thing is absolutely amazing. The pictures here don't do it justice. It's way thin too.

[MikeUnwired]

Using Picsel Viewer at 620 x 420 would be great too!

I'm going to have to get laser eye surgery so I can make-out the images on the screen if the resolution gets any deeper on these 3.5 inch monsters. :wink:

[hopeful797]

if it could do 640x480 in internet explorer or another PPC browser client (tunderhawk or whichever) i'd be sold.

[felixdd]

Man...this is like the Murcielago of PPC's -- maybe not as fast as the Zonda (aka Ipaq 2215) or the McLaren F1 (aka Asus MyPal A620) but it's pure beast!

(You have to be a view of BBC's car review show "Top Gear" to understand what all that was above )

But the aggressive styling has a strange pull on me...although it's probably not all that practical.

In any case, let me translate what the captions under the pictures on each page says:

Page 1:
E800 impression
1) E800, E200, V60 comparing size.
2) During testing the E800's screen was about twice as bright as the E200's. The body's a bit slim but the screen is a bit larger and more beautiful.
3) How the E800 looks like in 240×320
4) How the E800 looks like in 480×640.
5) On top of each other, the E800 is a bit longer (oh my poor E200's paint is peeling off....)
6) You can see how cluttered the bottom of the device is: the left is the A/C port, the middle is the cradle port, the rubber cover on the upper right is covering the main power switch -- switching it off then on will result in a hard reset...the On/off on the bottom is the Wireless switch.

Page 2:
E800's design profile
1) Portrait of the E800's body.
2) Back of the E800, the bottom is battery.
3) Bottom of the E800.
4) The right side of the E800: from left to right you see the recording button, jog dial, hold switch, and IR.
5) Top of the E800: with WiFi indicator LED, SD&CF double slot, power button, and headphone plug.
6) E800's left side, only has the reset button.
7) E800's battery...only says "sample by sony"...don't know the capacity...but after using E200's charger for 5 hours it only had 80%

Page 3:
E800 settings
1) System screen 1
2) System screen 2
3) PXA263 400 MHz! A strong heart! (Note: I like how he said it so I left the phrase intact)
4) RAM: 129.79MB, ROM: 32MB, Flash ROM Disk: 31.10MB. You have 126.79 memory.
5) You can adjust left/right channel volume
6) And also adjust bass and treble. After trying, E800's sound can be very loud! And crisp!
7) Low battery alarm
8) Speed adjustment screen
9) Wireless Lan Manager screen.
10) Configure Wireless Networks screen.
11) Configure Network Adapters screen.

Page 4:
E800's included software
1) Screen resolution used to increase screen resolution.
2) Included programs 1: you have Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Image viewers
3) Included programs 2: and also IP Phone, Voice Recorder
4) Included programs 3: ConfigFree setup.
5) Connectivity Doctor
6) Profile Settings
7) Search for Wireless

Page 5:
E800 other
1) SoftReset
2) 480×640 screen 1: program. You didn't see wrong! You can only use these few!
3) 480×640 screen 2: Main. Only Screen Resolution for changing resolution
4) 480×640 screen 3: Running. What programs are currently open
5) Origin, use PowerVcr straight recorded, with the above format.
6) Place in the CF card and you can have 26 fps performance.
7) If placed in the RAM, it's 30 fps.

[So for 5) he's explaining that he recorded a clip from PowerVcr using the formats on the screen (44.1 sound, etc.). On 6) and 7) he's comparing fps of the clip when it's in CF or RAM.]

ClearVue test:
8) Program screen: 320×240
9) Program screen: 480×640
10) Program screen: 320×240; 1.37 MP with 5 million pixels.
11) Program screen: 640×480: 1.37 MP with 5 million pixels.
12) Original picture resized to 640×480.

ClearVue Document test: First saying that "Monster Chinese 2003" [NOTE: straight translation] is installed.
13) 480×640 format: 50%
14) 480×640 format: 100%
15) 480×640 format: 200%
16) 320×240 format: 75%
17) 320×240 format: 100%
18) VGA output

Test results:
E800's ClearVue Document (Word viewer) is pretty good, it can display Word format without change, esepcially in 480×640 mode, words are really crisp. But there's a problem..probably due to it being an english machine, you have to change fonts in Pocket Word before you can see Chinese... but because after saving in Pocket Word file, a file with charts, now has no charts...@@

ClearVue Worksheet test: installed "Monster Chinese 2003" beforehand.
1) 480×640 format: no need to pass through Pocket Excel, Chinese was perfectly presurved.

Summary:
On the whole using the E800 didn't have any problems, but in 480×640 mode it sometimes doesn't respond to taps. Sometimes the backlight is also strange, but during the two days of testing this only happened twice. Also tried using PaPago V5.2b. Loading was really fast, but just didn't connect so there was no way to try GPS, what a shame.




After reading it -- this device looks sweet!

[torring]

What I want to know is what happens to a 320x240 application on a 640x420 screen?

I guess the answer is either much white space or larger than normal controls.

How does one develop for this screen?
The resolution is 640x480, the exact double of 320x240 that we have on today's PPS's.
What do you do is pixel-doubling, that is zoom the picture to fit on the larger display. This works because of the resolution is exactly twice that of the norn.
You probably have to reset when changing the resolution until Microsoft begins to support the option in the OS.
Sony did this when they first made high resolution displays for the Palm, at a a time when it wasn't supported in the OS

[Fishie]

What I want to know is what happens to a 320x240 application on a 640x420 screen?

I guess the answer is either much white space or larger than normal controls.

How does one develop for this screen?
The resolution is 640x480, the exact double of 320x240 that we have on today's PPS's.
What do you do is pixel-doubling, that is zoom the picture to fit on the larger display. This works because of the resolution is exactly twice that of the norn.
You probably have to reset when changing the resolution until Microsoft begins to support the option in the OS.
Sony did this when they first made high resolution displays for the Palm, at a a time when it wasn't supported in the OS

Last time I counted 640x480 is four times higher then 320x240

[Gerard]

When I used to use JimmySoftware's JSLandscape (before they messed it up for PPC 2002, before Inaki had to leave to do other things...), I found a number of things that worked very well in 480 x 640 mode. Pocket IE was great, though some pages got a bit hard to read. I used this resolution to sort of simulate a PC when I was testing HTML. Layout meant almost no side-scrolling. Icons and such just scaled down.

Pocket Artist has supported 480 x 640 for a while now, and since it's hands down the most kickass graphics program for the PPC, this is really important to me. PQV works fine too at this resolution, making image viewing a lot better on this Toshiba I should expect.

Dashboard always had trouble with landscape (the SymbianLS skin set being a notable exception), and at higher resolutions Dashboard used to be intolerable, very difficult to use at all. I don't know if the latest versions compensate somehow, but I rather doubt it, as the skins are based on images of fixed sizes. Dashboard (the latest betas) does support TSK themes though, and these should probably resize automatically, though I don't know for sure. Proper Today support is important for me, as I use a number of plugins... I guess Toshiba has at least partly dealt with that on their own though.

I like this Toshiba's features a lot. Seems someone's been paying a lot of attention to complaints, especially in the many Settings enhancements. But I'm thinking of going to a PPCPE for my next unit, and it seems this one's missing the PE part. Dang. My local providers seem finally to be getting into a price war, offering local calling just as cheap as my landline, and long distance about the same too. Data rates over GPRS just dropped dramatically here too. So it's looking like time to cut the wire, but only if the right device comes along to replace both my iPAQ 3835 and my telephone. I'll be wanting that CF slot for a camera and some storage cards, so no GPRS card for me. Oh well, something will come along soon......

[hopeful797]

thanks for that translation felixdd! very much appreciated and very well done. :D

[darrylb]

I like this Toshiba's features a lot. Seems someone's been paying a lot of attention to complaints, especially in the many Settings enhancements. But I'm thinking of going to a PPCPE for my next unit, and it seems this one's missing the PE part. Dang. My local providers seem finally to be getting into a price war, offering local calling just as cheap as my landline, and long distance about the same too. Data rates over GPRS just dropped dramatically here too. So it's looking like time to cut the wire, but only if the right device comes along to replace both my iPAQ 3835 and my telephone. I'll be wanting that CF slot for a camera and some storage cards, so no GPRS card for me. Oh well, something will come along soon......

I've been thinking about the XDA II for my next device - has the camera built it too..... I think that GPRS is probably the only real feature missing from this - not including the fact it is made by Toshiba of course :wink:

[Bruno Figueiredo]

Last time I counted 640x480 is four times higher then 320x240

Yes, but for a pixel to be doubled and maintain the aspect ratio it cain not contain subpixels. so, to increase its diagonal by two you have to get 4 pixels from the original one. So, 1 pixel in 320x240 equals 4 in 640x480.

Oh and my keyboard is getting serious damage from all my :drool: .
Man, what a kick-ass device! What could it have more? Just a slide out keyboard IMO... That would be perfect!

[Duncan]

Reasons to shrug one's shoulders and say 'so what?':

1) It's Toshiba. The company that screwed its users with regard to updates and a WM2003 upgrade, the company that appears to believe that the PPC is dead.

2) It's too early. It is not exactly a secret that the next version of the PPC OS will support VGA resolution natively - and that it is due Summer 2004 - why rush into Toshiba's effort?

3) At least two other PPC vendors have definite plans for VGA resolution by May 2004 (I've seen the evidence). Vendors who have shown more of a commitment to the future of the PPC and their users.

4) So it has a big resolution? In other areas it has taken a step backwards. Offering only one built-in wireless? When others are moving to two/three wireless solutions? Built-in WiFi is nice - but without built-in GPRS and/or Bluetooth it is a lot less use - out of the box - than just about every other upcoming PPC. Resolution is all that it has (same problem as the Tunsten T3 - bigger resolution does not make up for being behind in everything else).

So - sorry but I'm not even remotely excited by this. Typical Toshiba really - introduce the least suported most battery draining possible feature before someone else comes along and shows them how to do it better (as indeed HP did last time).

[Jonathan1]

:jawdrop:

Dang it Janak! I now have to go change my pants! Thanks a lot! ;)

People sit there for a second and imagine GPS on a device like this, OH MY GOD! :eek:

Could this spur other PPC manufacturers to make similar alterations to their Pocket PC's? I sure hope so. :rock on dude!:

[Pocket PC Dubai]

Reasons to shrug one's shoulders and say 'so what?':

1) It's Toshiba. The company that screwed its users with regard to updates and a WM2003 upgrade, the company that appears to believe that the PPC is dead.

2) It's too early. It is not exactly a secret that the next version of the PPC OS will support VGA resolution natively - and that it is due Summer 2004 - why rush into Toshiba's effort?

3) At least two other PPC vendors have definite plans for VGA resolution by May 2004 (I've seen the evidence). Vendors who have shown more of a commitment to the future of the PPC and their users.

4) So it has a big resolution? In other areas it has taken a step backwards. Offering only one built-in wireless? When others are moving to two/three wireless solutions? Built-in WiFi is nice - but without built-in GPRS and/or Bluetooth it is a lot less use - out of the box - than just about every other upcoming PPC. Resolution is all that it has (same problem as the Tunsten T3 - bigger resolution does not make up for being behind in everything else).

So - sorry but I'm not even remotely excited by this. Typical Toshiba really - introduce the least suported most battery draining possible feature before someone else comes along and shows them how to do it better (as indeed HP did last time).

I do agree with you

[Fishie]

Seriously, the PPC is dead comment get on my nerves.
Toshiba did NOT SAY THAT.
Those were the words of a SINGLE Australian Toshiba spokesperson with regards to the Australian market and the Australian market alone.

Another thing that anoys me, the same people here deriding Toshiba who has innovated way more and will continue to do so then Dell for instance constantly praise Sony and wish sony would be in the PPC camp.
Sony of course who´s trackrecord on PalmOS devices shows that they change models way faster and have worse support then Toshiba does.

Toshiba IS good for the PPC market, they have innovated on quite a few points(sadly quite a few of those machines never made it to the west) and provide an excellent middleground between the boring yet decent Dell machines and the high quality yet higher priced solutions offered by HP.

The premium for NEW Toshiba devices generally is higher then for Dell yet lower then for HP and you can get older machines for prices that beat both Dell and HP.

A Windows mobile 2003 Toshiba can be had new for well under 200$, like it or not Toshiba IS a good thing for PPCs and it sickens me to see people continously jumping on them.

Most of the people who do here and on other fiorums never even have owned a Toshiba PPC, they just go with the flow so to speak.
Im a former 310 owner and yes I was dissapointed by the lack of straight support from Toshiba with EUU3 but hey I aplied the ipaq one and didnt care, especialy considering the fact that it was not my only PDA and it was several hunderds cheaper then what else was out at the time.

[HTK]

Better shots showing the capacity of the LCD, it is true 480x640, not simulated:

http://homepage19.seed.net.tw/web/kennice/MyWeb.zip/5.htm
8O 8O 8O

[HTK]

Must be great to use acrobat reader on this one
and to browse some pages

[Duncan]

Seriously, the PPC is dead comment get on my nerves.
Toshiba did NOT SAY THAT.
Those were the words of a SINGLE Australian Toshiba spokesperson with regards to the Australian market and the Australian market alone.

Yet he was able to say it - and, despite widespread reporting of his comments, where was Toshiba running to disown his comments?

Another thing that anoys me, the same people here deriding Toshiba who has innovated way more and will continue to do so then Dell for instance constantly praise Sony and wish sony would be in the PPC camp.

I hope you aren't including me in that - I believe Sony have been as guilty of 'sham' innovation as Toshiba. Flip screens, built-in camera and large respolution mixed with only 16MB of RAM and Memory Sticks is as silly as Toshiba's VGA resolution - as far as 'innovaton' goes!

Toshiba IS good for the PPC market, they have innovated on quite a few points(sadly quite a few of those machines never made it to the west) and provide an excellent middleground between the boring yet decent Dell machines and the high quality yet higher priced solutions offered by HP.

What innovations? A 4" screen but at only 320x240 with the Genios? Built-in WiFi bundled with a small battery and buggy software? If it has a point, works well, has been clearly thought through and is well supported - THEN it's innovation - otherwise it's just trying to make yourself look different to HP!

Most of the people who do here and on other fiorums never even have owned a Toshiba PPC, they just go with the flow so to speak.

Really? I base my views on the official statements Toshiba have made and on reading the reams of complaints made by actual Toshiba owners in Toshiba forums - maybe I am going with the flow, but the current is unbelievably strong!!!

Im a former 310 owner and yes I was dissapointed by the lack of straight support from Toshiba with EUU3 but hey I aplied the ipaq one and didnt care, especialy considering the fact that it was not my only PDA and it was several hunderds cheaper then what else was out at the time.

So Toshiba don't deserve to be slammed for failures over the EUU3 and WM2003 upgrade because a) 'you' know enough to be able to work aorund their lack of basic customer support and b) 'you' have more than one PDA. Heavens - what ARE people complaining about!

I repeat - I have not seen one jot of evidence that Toshiba can be be trusted to have got this new PPC right or that they will support it properly AND the sole 'innovation' in the e800 is a weak one, applied too early, unique only because it is released now, and released in a machine that is lacking the key advances (useful NOW, with the current OS) that other PPC manufacturer are making available as the norm!

People are of course free to choose the e800 because of the screen - but I reserve the right to lobby a few justifiably smug 'I told you sos' at them in the near future...! :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

Reasons to shrug one's shoulders and say 'so what?'
You might never buy the unit, but the fact that a 640x480 display has been integrated and will be available soon takes care of the hardware argument. It's a useful step forward. :)

--janak

[Duncan]

Reasons to shrug one's shoulders and say 'so what?'
You might never buy the unit, but the fact that a 640x480 display has been integrated and will be available soon takes care of the hardware argument. It's a useful step forward. :)

--janak

It is a useful step forward - but one taken too soon. VGA combined with Magneto's support for the resolution will be worth it. With the e800 it feels too much like Toshiba desperately searching for something to differentiate them from HP in a battle they are badly losing... even if it means introducing a feature earlier than is appropriate!

Believe me - I'm not anti VGA nor am I being negative for the sake of it - I honestly believe the presence of VGA is blinding people to the deficiencies of the specs, of Toshiba as a company and of VGA for an OS not designed for it.

[SandersP]

There is no such thing as too soon.

In fact I am demanding SVGA already.

Keep me entertain, I want my latest and greatest gadget with all the goodies included. (make them cheap too... this habit is getting awfully expensive. :D )

[crazy0000]

Did everyone notice the things at the top of the page are PAGE NUMBERs!! Im only yelling because I just noticed them now!

[hoxbox]

Did everyone notice the things at the top of the page are PAGE NUMBERs!! Im only yelling because I just noticed them now!

What? You mean you can't read chinese? :lol:

[van_mierlo]

Reasons to shrug one's shoulders and say 'so what?'
You might never buy the unit, but the fact that a 640x480 display has been integrated and will be available soon takes care of the hardware argument. It's a useful step forward. :)

--janak

but the screen is unbelievable sharp as a tv screen. I alrewady had it in my hands

[Enderet]

Im with Janak on this one, in regards to the fact that it has VGA takes care of the hardware argument.

I just hope the man over at Morphgear gets to work, implementing this VGA feature on the next version of his SNES emulaor. :drool:

[Fishie]

that and it DOES have uses out of the box wich for some will be killer apps.
3.8 inch VGA to check digital pics taken mere seconds before.
Huge amount of fast ram and man the unit seems fast, achieving 30fps on a 2000kbps video is incredibly impresive.

[Enderet]

But when will this unit be available? Anybody have any info on this?

[Duncan]

At the very least a guarantee of upgradeability to Magneto (IF genuinely possible) needs to be wrung out of Toshiba. Otherwise people buying the e800 may feel very annoyed when other manufacturers produce VGA Magneto (or 'Magneto-ready') PPCs and Toshiba wriggle out of providing an upgrade again. You would be left with a device that runs a handful of programs that make use of VGA while others who waited get the full deal!

Surely I'm not the only one who doubts Toshiba's commitment here and sees the e800 as too much of a 'white elephant' risk? I'm beginning to wonder if I've entered a parallel universe where people are blissfully using their WM2003 e740s and don't know what I'm on about! :?

[Enderet]

Duncan I dont think you are alone with your worries. I for one would definetely think twice before purchasing a Toshiba. However, at the moment I am completely awed by this PPC.

The guarantee of upgradeability that you commented upon, would be nice, but having heard of Toshiba's reputation, it is probably never going to happen.

Besides, isnt Magneto still a ways off? I think some people's purchasing/upgrading cycle is about 6 months....if so, then this should definetely tie them over until the Magneto batch appears(with even more goodies).

[Duncan]

Besides, isnt Magneto still a ways off? I think some people's purchasing/upgrading cycle is about 6 months....if so, then this should definetely tie them over until the Magneto batch appears(with even more goodies).

Well - for many of us it is 6 months - but not everyone can afford that! :wink:

I don't know for certain when Magneto is due - but I do know for certain that two current PPC manufacturers have plans for May and June next year and that those plans provisionally involve VGA and Magneto (or at least 'Magneto-ready') PPCs.

So I'm sticking to more trustworthy names with QVGA resolution but more advanced wireless features for my next upgrade - and waiting for VGA in 2004.

I suppose for someone who values VGA resolution over other features, and is in a 6 monthly upgrade cycle, (and has no illusions about OS upgrades from Toshiba) the e800 could be of value...

[Scott R]

480x640 would be wonderful. When I first saw this story and started to read through the comments and look at all the pretty pictures of this PDA, I was definitely thinking about how much I'd like one. But I have to say that there's a major usability flaw here and I hope this isn't representative of any official 480x640 support that may be forthcoming from Microsoft. IMO, boosting the resolution up to 480x640 should employ the same sort of pixel-doubling methodology that the Palm OS uses. Why? Because it:
a) Allows for instant compatibility with non-high-res apps (so long as they comply by the Palm OS coding rules) while making use of the added resolution for smoother fonts.
b) System-wide GUI controls are doubled in size so that you still have decent sized on-screen controls to tap on with your stylus. What I'm seeing in the photos here is that the toolbars are still use the same number of pixels as they currently do in 240x320 mode, resulting in tiny buttons, tiny menu bars, and tiny text.

I want the added resolution for better web browsing and other things but I don't want to have to work under a microscope with a needle trying to tap on buttons, etc.

Notably absent, also, is landscape support. Honestly, I think Microsoft's priorities should be to get built-in landscape support working first, and higher res screens next.

Scott

[jb]

I for one will buy this thing as soon as it is available. :D

For all of you waiting for "Magneto" to show up, do I need to remind you what company you are dealing with? We will be lucky if they release "Magneto" whenever.

As for Toshiba, I have owned the e310, e740 & e755. Never ever, had a problem with any of them. All worked rock solid. The e805 appears to be a killer machine. And you know what, at least I have to hand it to Toshiba for being the first out of the gate with VGA.

As far as their upgrades are concerned, these machines have reached a price point that they are quickly becoming disposable as evidenced by the marketing cycle the OEM's have established. So how much support do you really expect for a machine with a six month life cycle? Not much.

Certainly, HP had the opportunity to do it and look what they came out with. Can't even include a compact flash card slot in their 4000 series for $450 bucks. But hey, let's put in Bluetooth. I don't know about anyone else here, but I still don't own a single piece of Bluetooth equipment despite several years worth of promises that it is just around the corner. If Bluetooth isn't dead as alleged to in some of these forums, it better start paddling like crazy cause all I am hearing about lately is how many Wi-Fi spots are going to be put up around the country. Don't hear a single word about how many Bluetooth spots are coming or how many new pieces of Bluetooth equipment are going to be released. Guess their not.

So what will Toshiba be putting out with the e805, basically a killer machine running VGA, CF, SD & Wi-Fi all in a reasonably sized package.

Oh damn, they forgot Bluetooth, wait, I don't own any Bluetooth equipment so I guess I don't care.

As far as the price of the new Toshiba, I will be very surprised if the MSRP of $599 stands, in light of the latest releases from HP & Dell. But time will tell.

[darrylb]

I for one would definetely think twice before purchasing a Toshiba. However, at the moment I am completely awed by this PPC.

I agree, while this device looks good (except the lack of BT or GPRS), I would stay away simply because it is Toshiba and the go forward support seems thin from what I've seen/read.

If there are other devices around the corner (well nine months away) that will combine VGA with WiFi and GPRS or Bluetooth, it makes more sense to go with that.

On the pixel doubling thing - the picture with the today screen and settings looks much like any other today screen, presumably, therefore the standard on the device is to use pixel doubling.... rather than to just cram everything up. It would be nice to have the option of smaller icons though...

[dh]

Oh damn, they forgot Bluetooth, wait, I don't own any Bluetooth equipment so I guess I don't care.
I don't have any BT equipment either, but I do care. At the moment I use my wireless network at home and the T-Mobile HotSpots while traveling.

While the T-Mobile works great, it's a pain in the arse having to find Borders or Starbucks when you need one.

My plan is to continue to use WiFi at home, but to switch to BT phone access for traveling. I don't want to have to keep swapping cards as I do now with my Axim, so a BT/WiFi device is a must if I am going to upgrade.

Since there is not a single BT/WiFi - SD/CF device, I'll be waiting a while I think. I was hoping this Toshiba might be the one - oh well. :cry:

[Janak Parekh]

480x640 would be wonderful. When I first saw this story and started to read through the comments and look at all the pretty pictures of this PDA, I was definitely thinking about how much I'd like one. But I have to say that there's a major usability flaw here and I hope this isn't representative of any official 480x640 support that may be forthcoming from Microsoft.
I don't know what is coming from Microsoft, as I'm not an MVP, but I can easily say that this is not -- this is an unsupported resolution in WM2003.

Notably absent, also, is landscape support. Honestly, I think Microsoft's priorities should be to get built-in landscape support working first, and higher res screens next.
Or both at the same time, which is what I want. :D

--janak

[jnunn]

My desire for VGA is limited to word processing and spreadsheets so Toshiba has certainly pulled through on my needs. I use TextMaker and Fitaly, however, and I have no idea if they are compatible with VGA or if the Fitaly keyboard will be to diminutive at VGA. Regardless, Toshiba has earned my admiration for listennig to the customers and providing VGA now.

I am intrigued by Duncan's comments:
... It is not exactly a secret that the next version of the PPC OS will support VGA resolution natively - and that it is due Summer 2004 - why rush into Toshiba's effort?

... I do know for certain that two current PPC manufacturers have plans for May and June next year and that those plans provisionally involve VGA and Magneto (or at least 'Magneto-ready') PPCs.
The comments rather contradict Jason's October 3 comments about the prospect of screen resolution improvement.
... when you consider that Windows Mobile 2003 just came out a few months ago, given Microsoft's release cycle, it will be late 2004 before we see anything changed.
I understand that Jason respects the NDA that he holds with his sources but I certainly hope that Duncan’s look into the near future proves true.

[Duncan]

I for one will buy this thing as soon as it is available. :D

For all of you waiting for "Magneto" to show up, do I need to remind you what company you are dealing with? We will be lucky if they release "Magneto" whenever.

As for Toshiba, I have owned the e310, e740 & e755. Never ever, had a problem with any of them. All worked rock solid. The e805 appears to be a killer machine. And you know what, at least I have to hand it to Toshiba for being the first out of the gate with VGA.

As far as their upgrades are concerned, these machines have reached a price point that they are quickly becoming disposable as evidenced by the marketing cycle the OEM's have established. So how much support do you really expect for a machine with a six month life cycle? Not much.

Certainly, HP had the opportunity to do it and look what they came out with. Can't even include a compact flash card slot in their 4000 series for $450 bucks. But hey, let's put in Bluetooth. I don't know about anyone else here, but I still don't own a single piece of Bluetooth equipment despite several years worth of promises that it is just around the corner. If Bluetooth isn't dead as alleged to in some of these forums, it better start paddling like crazy cause all I am hearing about lately is how many Wi-Fi spots are going to be put up around the country. Don't hear a single word about how many Bluetooth spots are coming or how many new pieces of Bluetooth equipment are going to be released. Guess their not.

So what will Toshiba be putting out with the e805, basically a killer machine running VGA, CF, SD & Wi-Fi all in a reasonably sized package.

Oh damn, they forgot Bluetooth, wait, I don't own any Bluetooth equipment so I guess I don't care.

As far as the price of the new Toshiba, I will be very surprised if the MSRP of $599 stands, in light of the latest releases from HP & Dell. But time will tell.

Dear heavens! Where to start?

Another person too blind to consider that there is world outside their own country ('or how many new pieces of Bluetooth equipment are going to be released'!!), too ignorant to speak knowledgeably on the value or purpose of Bluetooth (and too lazy to educate themselves that it is complementary to WiFi - not a competitor - 'Bluetooth spots'?!!), clearly rich enough to believe that something costing several hundred dollars can be considered 'disposable'('these machines have reached a price point that they are quickly becoming disposable') and pliant enough as a consumer they don't even WANT or expect good customer service ('So how much support do you really expect for a machine with a six month life cycle? Not much')!!!

Hey - I've just figured out which market segment Toshiba is aiming for these days...! :roll:

[Duncan]

My desire for VGA is limited to word processing and spreadsheets so Toshiba has certainly pulled through on my needs. I use TextMaker and Fitaly, however, and I have no idea if they are compatible with VGA or if the Fitaly keyboard will be to diminutive at VGA. Regardless, Toshiba has earned my admiration for listennig to the customers and providing VGA now.

I am intrigued by Duncan's comments:
... It is not exactly a secret that the next version of the PPC OS will support VGA resolution natively - and that it is due Summer 2004 - why rush into Toshiba's effort?

... I do know for certain that two current PPC manufacturers have plans for May and June next year and that those plans provisionally involve VGA and Magneto (or at least 'Magneto-ready') PPCs.
The comments rather contradict Jason's October 3 comments about the prospect of screen resolution improvement.
... when you consider that Windows Mobile 2003 just came out a few months ago, given Microsoft's release cycle, it will be late 2004 before we see anything changed.
I understand that Jason respects the NDA that he holds with his sources but I certainly hope that Duncan’s look into the near future proves true.

Well I'm not under any sort of NDA, and I have no hotline to Microsoft (so Jason very likely knows something that makes his statement authoritative) - I've just been lucky enough to see some hardware roadmaps that tell me what a couple of manufcturers are expecting/anticipating - namely that if they can't install Magneto as early as next summer they should still be in a postion to release VGA screened PPCs that are intended for Magneto upgrading. That inclines me to believe they have been told something by MS that makes them pretty confident! When I say it isn't exactly a secret I mean that I know that a number of other people have seen the same roadmaps I have (and been told the same things I have). I'd be VERY surprised if Jason isn't one of them - but I didn't get my info via the official route so no NDA...

Of course it is worth pointing out that no manufacturer, or Microsoft, is going to want to jeapordise current and near future sales by revealing plans for big things nine months down the line...!

[jnunn]

Duncan, thanks for sharing those hints. That combined with what we see from Toshiba has convinced me to stop thinking about Palm for my next PDA. I was going to wait until summer for my next PDA purchase anyway.

[Prevost]

As I can see, menu titles are waaaaay tiny to be readable comfortably. I insist this is far from desirable.

[huangzhinong]

I definitly will buy it once it is available.

Damn it, I though this is a great stepstone for PPC world, why there are so few people feel excited about it? Is 480*640 too high resolution for PPC?

I never have trouble with toshiba. I have a E310, which I purchased from amazon.com, $150. I never have any single problem with it. I don't expect Toshiba will give upgrade for it either, which I don't need and I didn't pay for either.

[tsb_hcy]

I think Duncan wants us all to buy a Loox 610. ;)

If the e805 has USB host function, I'd much rather give up BT for USB host function and a VGA screen. I see no competition for this PDA from any other PDA, POS or PPC based.

I also agree with the other poster, by the time Magneto arrives it will be time to buy a new device anyway, unless they still are using 400 MHz processors. Hopefuly we get 800MHz+ units soon.

I think there's a 95% chance the e805 will get the upgrade to Magneto. I doubt they push another unit before then and the e755 got the upgrade. The e740 was a generation behind, so I don't know why people were so upset about not getting the upgrade to '03 for it.

[jb]

Dear heavens! Where to start?

Another person too blind to consider that there is world outside their own country ('or how many new pieces of Bluetooth equipment are going to be released'!!), too ignorant to speak knowledgeably on the value or purpose of Bluetooth (and too lazy to educate themselves that it is complementary to WiFi - not a competitor - 'Bluetooth spots'?!!), clearly rich enough to believe that something costing several hundred dollars can be considered 'disposable'('these machines have reached a price point that they are quickly becoming disposable') and pliant enough as a consumer they don't even WANT or expect good customer service ('So how much support do you really expect for a machine with a six month life cycle? Not much')!!!

Hey - I've just figured out which market segment Toshiba is aiming for these days...! :roll:[/quote]

Well, excuse me Mr. Enlightened PDA User.

I am fully aware of the implications and value of Bluetooth. However, my comment stands. Once again, how much market penetration has Bluetooth had so far? Not Much. How much more, will it have? More of course, but much slower than Wi-Fi. Face up to the fact that Bluetooth so far, has been a dismal failure. If you continue to think after 5 years of broken promises that Bluetooth is coming on strong, then you definitley are the type of market segment that HP is airming for. The HP2300 is a perfect example. Hey, let's leave out Wi-Fi but include Bluetooth.

As far as disposability is concerned, what is the life cycle of these machines? Six months tops. If you have issue with the word disposable, fine, then call is replaceable. Regardless, the marketing cycles of these machines stand on their own. Six months is the average. Period. How many machines will Toshiba put out this year. 6 or 7 by my count. After the e805 comes out, don't even think about too much more support existing for the e750. That's the way it is with companies, so you better get used to it.

Of course, I expect good customer service. But obviously, you fail to understand what type of costs you are talking about. So called customer service costs company an awful lot of money. Obviously, you have never worked as a CFO for a company or actually seen a P&L.

So once again, how much customer service you expect for $200 -$300. Would you like them to be at your beck & call for say the next 3 years for $300. Or how about you upgrade my machine with new OS for the next 3 years for free (weeee). Think again my friend, that's just not going to happen. Of course, if you are one of those consumers that feels that as long as you give a company $1 they should honor you with their service for life, then keep on trucking and I hope you find that company. Let me know when you do so I won't invest in it. Will surely go broke.

As far as being "too blind to see that there is a world outside their own country", yeah I am aware of it. But i'm not interested in using Bluetooth in Romania. I am interested in my access here in Florida. But i'm sure someone outside of the U.S.A. is very concerned about how I am going to implement Bluetooth into my corporate life.

[doctorc]

Too bad it's a Toshiba, an HP or something, it'd be worth considering...

agreed. their quality is very poor. I have had 3 friends who had horrific problems with their toshiba pdas, and toshiba did zip to help them. after reading about how badly HP screwed over their customers on the wm2003 issue i'd never touch a toshiba pda ever again. I had an e700 for a while but thankfully unloaded it on ebay for an inpaq. i have several other toshiba products in my home including two tv's and a laptop that I am very happy with, but I would never buy a toshiba pda. I also agree w/ the unsupported 640x480 resolution comments - nice gimick but will not be practical until the OS (and all apps) actually support it.

[Janak Parekh]

Guys, let's avoid the Great Bluetooth Debate here -- Ed started a thread expressly for that purpose.

:nonono:

--janak

[jb]

Guys, let's avoid the Great Bluetooth Debate here -- Ed started a thread expressly for that purpose.

:nonono:

--janak

I concur.

[jlp]

At the very least a guarantee of upgradeability to Magneto (IF genuinely possible) needs to be wrung out of Toshiba. Otherwise people buying the e800 may feel very annoyed when other manufacturers produce VGA Magneto (or 'Magneto-ready') PPCs and Toshiba wriggle out of providing an upgrade again. You would be left with a device that runs a handful of programs that make use of VGA while others who waited get the full deal!

Surely I'm not the only one who doubts Toshiba's commitment here and sees the e800 as too much of a 'white elephant' risk? I'm beginning to wonder if I've entered a parallel universe where people are blissfully using their WM2003 e740s and don't know what I'm on about! :?

So I'm sticking to more trustworthy names with QVGA resolution...


Well Duncan, on one side you rebuke Toshiba's support while being fully committed to Fujitsu-Siemens Computers (FSC) who:

took 3-4 delays or 8 months to release their Pocket LOOX 600
were fully committed to release their LOOX GPRS module only to announce very late last year that they'd droped it
advertized the LOOX would come with PPC Phone Edition pre-installed on the LOOX 600, but never delivered (I have screen shots of a Flash presentation they publicly & officially released on their site!!)
keep delaying their Windows Mobile 2003 for the LOOX 600, while other manufacturers have delivered it for many months now
their specs sheets, box and docs that accompany the LOOX 600 state that the device features a transflective screen while it's only a very average reflective one

So to say the least FSC is VERY FAR from being trustworthy & reliable!!!!

[Enderet]

I also agree with the other poster, by the time Magneto arrives it will be time to buy a new device anyway, unless they still are using 400 MHz processors. Hopefuly we get 800MHz+ units soon.


Well, if one were to look into the subject over at Intel's site. I clearly remember that the X-Scale is capable of handling up to 600mhz. We havent seen any machine of that kind so far, so maybe thats what we will have, 300-600mhz X-Scales and the Samsungs(which I really dont know anything about).

[tsb_hcy]

I think Samsung has a 600 MHz chip too, so hopefully 800 MHz - 1GHz is just around the corner. Maybe in about 1 1/2 years we'll get a PDA with 256 MB of RAM and 128 MB of flash ROM with a 1GHz+ processor. Tri-wireless and dual slots would be nice too. :)

[Tierran]

Well, as the person who started the whole petition to try and get Toshiba to provide an upgrade path for the e740 series to WM2k3, I can say that

a) I am still VERY happily using my fully functional e740.

&

b) I did not think that the screen stats were true until I came read this discussion here and while I have no interest in the e800 since my personal upgrade cycle is about 2 years and I'm only half way there by the time it comes out..I think its a great PDA.

I personally think all of the continued Toshiba bashing is childish. I wish I had WM2k3 but since its clearly stated that the OEMs are under no obligation to provide it, I do not see where the issue is really. I will continue to buy Toshiba products as long as they continue to innovative.

[tsb_hcy]

I think Duncan wants us all to buy a Loox 610. ;)

If the e805 has USB host function, I'd much rather give up BT for USB host function and a VGA screen. I see no competition for this PDA from any other PDA, POS or PPC based.

I also agree with the other poster, by the time Magneto arrives it will be time to buy a new device anyway, unless they still are using 400 MHz processors. Hopefuly we get 800MHz+ units soon.

I think there's a 95% chance the e805 will get the upgrade to Magneto. I doubt they push another unit before then and the e755 got the upgrade. The e740 was a generation behind, so I don't know why people were so upset about not getting the upgrade to '03 for it.

I should also add that the Loox 610 has a 3.5" screen and the e805 has a 4" screen. That's a major difference.

*I tried to edit my post to add this info. but it wouldn't let me. (Internal Server Error 500) :?:

[JustinGTP]

Has anyone had any more experience with the Nyditot display?

It looks interesting, but how does it work, and does it work very well?

[tsb_hcy]

It's OK, but you need to soft reset every time you make changes. It's just simulated resolution also, not the real deal.

[Hugh Nano]

My desire for VGA is limited to word processing and spreadsheets so Toshiba has certainly pulled through on my needs. I use TextMaker and Fitaly, however, and I have no idea if they are compatible with VGA or if the Fitaly keyboard will be to diminutive at VGA.

I don't know about Fitaly, but I would think that TextMaker, being compatible with higher resolutions using NYDITOT, would work just fine at VGA resolution! As a "well-behaved WinCE application" the handheld version of TextMaker was working on the Pocket PC even before a Pocket PC version had been thought of - which seems to me to be another indication that it should work just fine at higher resolutions.

As a dedicated user of TextMaker myself, this has me drooling for a Toshiba, alright! Especially if it has USB support!

[huangzhinong]

My desire for VGA is limited to word processing and spreadsheets so Toshiba has certainly pulled through on my needs. I use TextMaker and Fitaly, however, and I have no idea if they are compatible with VGA or if the Fitaly keyboard will be to diminutive at VGA.

I don't know about Fitaly, but I would think that TextMaker, being compatible with higher resolutions using NYDITOT, would work just fine at VGA resolution! As a "well-behaved WinCE application" the handheld version of TextMaker was working on the Pocket PC even before a Pocket PC version had been thought of - which seems to me to be another indication that it should work just fine at higher resolutions.

As a dedicated user of TextMaker myself, this has me drooling for a Toshiba, alright! Especially if it has USB support!

Yes, I second that.
I tried textmaker before they have a PPC verion. The HPC verion works very nice in PocketPC with a wilder interface.
SpreadCE is another program which should work in high resolution without many code modification.

The problem is E800 using home launcher registration method to run high resolution apps. In order to run the program in high resolution, the program need toshiba development kit to register in the home launcher. So I guess directly copying HPC verion textmaker in E800 will only run at 240*320.

[GadgetDave]

How about maybe the best use of 640x480 - Terminal Services might be really usable!!! 8O :D

[darrylb]

The issue with TS is that the size of the screen, and not only the resolution is the issue. 640x480 on a 3" screen wont help much. You will probably still pan around which is annoying and amost kills the apps usefulness... :?

[tsb_hcy]

How about maybe the best use of 640x480 - Terminal Services might be really usable!!! 8O :D

Pebble's Remote Commander should be great.

[Duncan]

At the very least a guarantee of upgradeability to Magneto (IF genuinely possible) needs to be wrung out of Toshiba. Otherwise people buying the e800 may feel very annoyed when other manufacturers produce VGA Magneto (or 'Magneto-ready') PPCs and Toshiba wriggle out of providing an upgrade again. You would be left with a device that runs a handful of programs that make use of VGA while others who waited get the full deal!

Surely I'm not the only one who doubts Toshiba's commitment here and sees the e800 as too much of a 'white elephant' risk? I'm beginning to wonder if I've entered a parallel universe where people are blissfully using their WM2003 e740s and don't know what I'm on about! :?

So I'm sticking to more trustworthy names with QVGA resolution...


Well Duncan, on one side you rebuke Toshiba's support while being fully committed to Fujitsu-Siemens Computers (FSC) who:

took 3-4 delays or 8 months to release their Pocket LOOX 600
were fully committed to release their LOOX GPRS module only to announce very late last year that they'd droped it
advertized the LOOX would come with PPC Phone Edition pre-installed on the LOOX 600, but never delivered (I have screen shots of a Flash presentation they publicly & officially released on their site!!)
keep delaying their Windows Mobile 2003 for the LOOX 600, while other manufacturers have delivered it for many months now
their specs sheets, box and docs that accompany the LOOX 600 state that the device features a transflective screen while it's only a very average reflective one

So to say the least FSC is VERY FAR from being trustworthy & reliable!!!!

You know - my comments on this thread have been entirely in context of Toshiba's record and the e800 specs. At no point have I brought up FSC or the Loox. Toshiba stand damned on their own record - not in comparison to anyone else. :roll: FTR - I use two Pocket PCs daily from two different companies - both of which I am very happy with (both Pocket PCs and both companies)

FWIW though - the Loox 600 was delayed once - due to problems with the then new XScale processor - i.e. Intel were to blame. Once FSC changed the release date they stuck to it. The WM2003 release date has been delayed once, by one month, in order to put some problems right. The Loox 600 was advertised as coming with PPC Phone edition only very early on and well before release. This was changed to reflect the intention to release the Phone Edition as an upgrade (it should be noted that this was after MS changed their mind about letting FSC do this!). The transflective screen argument is an old (and I'm not about to drag it up again) but the iPAQ 3600, Jornada 56x and Genio 550G were all originally advertised as having transflective screens after Compaq hijacked the term for the original iPAQ. Thus FSC were following accepted practice in describing the Loox. FTR Toshiba were the last to describe a reflective screen as transflective in the original advertising for the first e550! The GPRS module was dropped last thing when the people who were developing it for FSC failed to get it passed for use. FSC were guilty of trying to spin that as a positive thing which is the only thing out of your list they can be fairly criticised for. In the mean time are providing the WM2003 update and have provided all necessary ROM updates and acknowledged all issues. End of story - this thread is about Toshiba not FSC.

[tsb_hcy]

You have to admit it's taking FSC way too long to get the '03 upgrade out.

"As we reported on 2 October the Windows Mobile 2003 upgrades for the Pocket Loox have been delayed until the end of October/start of November."

The other manufacturers had theirs out ages ago. What's wrong with drawing parallels between FSC and Toshiba when they clearly exist. Maybe FSC's customer support isn't as bad, but FCS has definitely made a lot of promises they couldn't keep. The reasons behind the broken promises aren't important.

Can I assume from your posts in this thread that you won't be getting a Loox 610? You talk about the e805 missing so much, but clearly the 610 misses more. The e805 misses BT while the 610 misses VGA, VGA and SVGA out at 60 Hz, USB host and a 4" screen. I'd take VGA, VGA and SVGA out at 60 Hz, USB host and a 4" screen over BT any day and I'm willing to bet the vast majority of PPC users would also. Once Wifi phones and GPS units hit the market, there won't be a need for BT besides maybe headsets and quick PDA to PDA transfers. A wired headset sounds 100% better anyway and all units will include Wifi soon enough. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the unit to have BT included as well, but there's not a unit out there that doesn't make some sacrifice, and for most BT is the best sacrifice. They both sacrifice CIr as well. :(

A quote from today's front page of PPC Passion:

"However it never ceases to amaze me to hear so much chatter about the lack of bluetooth and yet I travel all over the country and I have NEVER seen anyone wear a bluetooth headset in public outside of a convention hall... "

[Duncan]

tsb_hcy,

This isn't a Loox thread - I've made the only comment I'm going to on the subject in my post above. You are entitled to your opinion.

Sticking to a relevant point - the lack of BT in the e800. It is an ommission and a key one. Putting the VGA screen to one side (and a 4" screen is not so great at 320x240 resolution - past discussion threads have revealed a lot of people would agree with that) - I would say that a lot more people would prefer BT to USB host than you seem to think. Perhaps if we were to narrow things down to a US only market you 'might' get a majority who would prefer USB host - but I doubt it would be an overwhelming one even then. USB host strikes me as rather less convenient for the business of a PDA all round. You seem very optimistic about WiFi phones and GPS units - I haven't heard of any manufacturer who is even thinking of such a thing - and how do you control the power drain?

I agree that in time all units will have WiFi - and also Bluetooth. My criticism of the e800 is not so much that it lacks BT as that it is a uni-wireless device in an increasing dual (and soon even triple) wireless PDA world. The only argument I would put forward for a single wireless device now would be a BT only device - but only if I knew that 802.11g WiFi cards were just around the corner (which, as far as I'm aware, they aren't yet).

BTW - the quote from PPC Passion - Dale is referring to the US only. I'm beginning to feel like a stuck record in the way I have to keep pointing out that the US is only one country (a mere 2% of the worlds population) - not representaive of the world as a whole when it comes to wireless use. Hard to see that many Bluetooth headsets being sold in the US when the mobile operators aren't making many Bluetooth phones available...!

[Marcel_Proust]

The negative rants are beyond my understanding. The device will be what it is, buy it or not.
It'll at least spur on the competition.
I'll consider it to replace my aging 568 - any word on availability? Before Christmas?

[csinger]

I am a lead developer at a company that makes a custom device based on Windows CE .NET (Which is the OS that Windows Mobile 2003 based on) and we have a device that is at a resolution of 640x480. There are no problems as far as the os is concerned and it is totally supported. Just because Microsoft comes out saying that their devices only do 320x240 doesn't mean that it is true. Microsoft doesn't always dilvulge all of the information.

[Janak Parekh]

I am a lead developer at a company that makes a custom device based on Windows CE .NET (Which is the OS that Windows Mobile 2003 based on) and we have a device that is at a resolution of 640x480. There are no problems as far as the os is concerned and it is totally supported. Just because Microsoft comes out saying that their devices only do 320x240 doesn't mean that it is true. Microsoft doesn't always dilvulge all of the information.
Oh, absolutely CE and CE .NET support any resolution -- but the Pocket PC user interface that's on top doesn't officially support it. Try running Nyditot -- and you'll see little quirks, plus the UI becomes a bit too small. Overall it works remarkably well considering, but it's not ready for average users quite yet.

--janak

[Jonathon Watkins]

Welcome csinger and thanks for the imput. In your opinion, is 640x480 on PPC2003 well integrated and usefull - or is it a gimick that doen't hold together? What more can you tell us?

[corphack]

Now we just have to wait for a real PDA manufacturer to produce a product with these features. A manufacturer with better quality controls and a better reputation. Given Toshiba's recent performance that shouldn't be too difficult: simply answering the telephone would be a 100% improvement over Toshiba.

[tsb_hcy]

By the time the units from other manufacturers are released, it will be time to upgrade the e805 to a new model. ;) It will probably be close to six months before they are available, and who knows whether they will have 4" screens and dual slots as well. I'll probably buy an e805 now and won't upgrade again until 800Hhz+ units are available. All this negative talk about Toshiba is nonsense, the vast majority of users are very happy with their Toshiba PPCs. This is clearly the best PPC ever made and it would be foolish to pass it up unless you really don't have the cash to upgrade or have a hard on for BT.

Some users are in the process of hosting all the pics from the page which is now gone. Hopefully they will be ready for everyone to see soon.

[shawnc]

Another person too blind to consider that there is world outside their own country ('or how many new pieces of Bluetooth equipment are going to be released'!!), too ignorant to speak knowledgeably on the value or purpose of Bluetooth (and too lazy to educate themselves that it is complementary to WiFi - not a competitor - 'Bluetooth spots

Where in the h#&& do you get off referring to people as ignorant and lazy? You haven't just crossed the line, you went so far past it that it's not even visible to you any more.

You seem knowledgeable, get some perpsective!

[Duncan]

Where in the h#&& do you get off referring to people as ignorant and lazy? You haven't just crossed the line, you went so far past it that it's not even visible to you any more.

I saw comments made that betrayed ignorance - an ignorance that could easily have been enlightened but wasn't - thus betraying laziness. If I see ignorance and laziness I reserve the right to point it out. I know exactly where the line is thank you - it's at the point between conviction and vacillation (and God forbid I ever cross it!). I should also point out the cavernous gap between saying someone is being ignorant and lazy in a particular context (unless you think we have no right to do so?) and saying that they are ignorant and lazy by nature (not something I would do with regard to someone I've never met). You'll note I referenced specific examples of ignorance, laziness and blindness - no character assassination was involved.

Really - if you think my fairly mild (by comparison to so so many posts) beration on a single subject was 'so far past [the line] it that it's not even visible to [me] any more.' - I respectfully suggest that it isn't me who's lost a little perspective here!

[tsb_hcy]

All the while the e805 is looking nicer and nicer, and there may be two models, one with Wifi and one with BT just for you Duncan. ;) It also has the ATI W3200 graphics controller and that cool port replicator. I bow down to my new mistress. :)

By the way Duncan, did you ever find out which graphics controller the Loox 610 has?[/img]

[Duncan]

All the while the e805 is looking nicer and nicer, and there may be two models, one with Wifi and one with BT just for you Duncan.

Ah but single wireless is so 2002! If the e800 had dual wireless, good battery life (it may well have excellent battery life but until I see a review I'm going to suspect that a VGA screen has consequences) and a promise from Toshiba that they will support it properly (including a WM2004/Magneto upgrade - if feasible - no 'unreasonably open' promises required) then I would actually be tempted.

As it is - single wireless is a backwards step (as some 'previewers' on various sites have pointed out), VGA currently does not offer enough benefits (a few ringfenced programs only - plus the increased potential for instability and poor battery life) and, even though I might among those who change Pocket PCs frequently(ish) (and am a dual PPC owner) , many stick by their Pocket PC for at least a year (often more) and I feel that too many e800 owners may find themselves with a VGA machine and no ability to upgrade to a VGA OS.

...and can I remind you that there are other places (than this thread) to ask about the components of other Pocket PCs?

[Thinkingmandavid]

mmm, well the topic is about the toshibas so that is a little broad janak, but i see where you are coming from on that one.
Maybe everyone should be reminded of the blue tooth link for debates :wink:
I have a Toshiba e355 that i bought a few days ago for 129.99 at best buy. I dont mind because my last pda was stolen so i need it to get onthe ball again. too much time has gone by. I know they have poor customer service, hence the service plan :mrgreen:
I like how then these models are, not the shape. as usual there is always some part ofthe technology that is running behind adn all microsoft does is offer a few tid bits with each new software upgrade which tome is crap. if they cant offer anything decent then just give theupgrade for free. actually my toshiba came with 2003 so i have no idea if it costs anything, anyway, whether free or not it really needs to start impressing.

[tsb_hcy]

All the while the e805 is looking nicer and nicer, and there may be two models, one with Wifi and one with BT just for you Duncan.

Ah but single wireless is so 2002! If the e800 had dual wireless, good battery life (it may well have excellent battery life but until I see a review I'm going to suspect that a VGA screen has consequences) and a promise from Toshiba that they will support it properly (including a WM2004/Magneto upgrade - if feasible - no 'unreasonably open' promises required) then I would actually be tempted.

As it is - single wireless is a backwards step (as some 'previewers' on various sites have pointed out), VGA currently does not offer enough benefits (a few ringfenced programs only - plus the increased potential for instability and poor battery life) and, even though I might among those who change Pocket PCs frequently(ish) (and am a dual PPC owner) , many stick by their Pocket PC for at least a year (often more) and I feel that too many e800 owners may find themselves with a VGA machine and no ability to upgrade to a VGA OS.

...and can I remind you that there are other places (than this thread) to ask about the components of other Pocket PCs?

I'm 100% certain Toshiba will offer the Magneto upgrade for the unit and battery life isn't important to me. I have a 3600 mAH battery pack and I'll get the optional high capacity battery. I agree that dual wireless is great, but I've had dual wireless before and I have a 2210 with BT only now and I never use BT anymore. I'd rather have Wifi phones, Wifi GPS units or CF II card versions anyday. BT is too slow compared to Wifi for most other things. Wifi, USB, VGA, screen size, dual slots, graphics controller and memory are my concerns. The e805 shines like a supernova in these areas. BT may be nice for keyboards and mice, but when you use those you'll be sitting at your desk so USB is more than acceptable. I'll be very happy when Pocket MVP is re-released with VGA support for the e805. That will probably happen long before Magneto arrives. ;)

I take it from your last comment that you still don't know. ;) We don't have to stick to the topic with an iron grip. :roll:

[Steven Cedrone]

We don't have to stick to the topic with an iron grip. :roll:

Ummm....

Actually, you do...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

[tsb_hcy]

We don't have to stick to the topic with an iron grip. :roll:

Ummm....

Actually, you do...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

Sweet, you just broke your own rule. What's on topic in your post or mine here? :twisted:

[Steven Cedrone]

Thread locked...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator