Building a PC, need advice!

[David Prahl]

I tend to hold onto my money, probably because I don't have much! :lol: I'll need a nice PC for college, and was planning on building something along these lines. I need some power, partially because I'll be a Computer Science major and partially due to the W?BIC! principal.

Here are the parts I'm considering. Please suggest any changes or additions you feel would help me build a better system. Just keep in mind that I don't want to spend a lot of money on this. :oops:

-Intel P4 2.6Ghz / 512k Cache / 800Mhz FSB / HyperThreading
Could get a 2.4 and save some money, and could just stay at the 533 FSB, but... :lol:

-DFI - 648FX-ALE - Socket 478 ATX Motherboard / AGP 8X, USB 2.0 / Hyper-Threading
Again, I just like the idea of a 800 MHz FSB. Has anyone had experience with DFI?

-Western Digital Caviar SE 40GB / 7200 / 8MB / 8.9 / EIDE Hard
Drive
I don't download music or play a ton of games, so 40 should fit me just fine. Do I need 8MB? Would 2MB be enough?

-Premium 512MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz Memory
I might add more later, but I think 512 should be a good place to start. Do I need PC3200?

-I'll add a cheap GPU and nice case, too.

So parts will be about $580. XP Pro will add about $150

What do you think? Is this overkill? Should I spend more in certain areas and less in others?

Thanks for your suggestions!

[prismejon]

XP Pro will add about $150

Don't buy it before you have checked with your university. My uni has a deal with Microsoft (they are members of MSDN Academic Alliance), so we get ALL MS software but Office for free!! :D

[David Prahl]

My uni has a deal with Microsoft (they are members of MSDN Academic Alliance), so we get ALL MS software but Office for free!! :D

Whoa! 8O Thanks for the tip!

Do you guys think XP Pro or Win2k would work better in a school/development environment?

[bradolson]

Either one should be fine. I use XP Pro developing with VS.NET, Java, PHP/HTML and a lot more with no problems.

Brad

[maximus]

-Intel P4 2.6Ghz / 512k Cache / 800Mhz FSB / HyperThreading
Could get a 2.4 and save some money, and could just stay at the 533 FSB, but... :lol:

My suggestion is to get the P4 2.4 BPH (800mhz, H/T) and add extra 512 of PC3200 RAM. On most memory intensive applications, this combination will be significantly faster than a 2.8 with 512 of RAM.

And stay away from the FSB 533mhz systems (mobos, processors) ....

-DFI - 648FX-ALE - Socket 478 ATX Motherboard / AGP 8X, USB 2.0 / Hyper-Threading
Again, I just like the idea of a 800 MHz FSB. Has anyone had experience with DFI?

Why not take a look at the ABIT IC7 (http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php?pMODEL_NAME=IC7&fMTYPE=Socket+478&DEFTITLE=Y)(faster, intel 875, USB 2, firewire, SATA, 6 channel audio, IrDA, etc. etc. etc.? if you have spare money, go for the IC7 max3.

-Premium 512MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz Memory
I might add more later, but I think 512 should be a good place to start. Do I need PC3200?

If you have a DDR400-capable motherboard and a 800 FSB processor, you should go with PC3200. The 800mhz FSB will love the 2x400mhz DDRs. :wink:

-I'll add a cheap GPU and nice case, too.

Perhaps an NVIDIA FX5600 Ultra flipchip version (chaintech A-FX71 (http://www.chaintechusa.com/tw/eng/product_spec.asp?MPSNo=14&PISNo=128), PNY verto (http://www.pny.com/products/verto/geForceFx/5600ultra.asp), etc.)? quite outdated, but I think it has the best price/performance right now. If you choose this chipset, make sure to buy the flipchip ultra (400 mhz engine core, 800 mhz memory) instead of the 'regular' ultra (375 mhz engine core, 700 mhz memory)

So parts will be about $580. XP Pro will add about $150
What do you think? Is this overkill? Should I spend more in certain areas and less in others?
Thanks for your suggestions!

Yer welcome. :wink:

[David Prahl]

Thanks for the tips, Maximus! That was EXACTLY the kind of information I was looking for! :D

Anyone else have ideas? The more the better!

[JustinGTP]

Don't go with Pentium. It is proven that AMD Athlon, at a slower speed ie. 1.6ghz runs faster than a Pentium @ 2GHZ.

And if you want speed with your CPU, go with the Athlon 64, its pricey, but then again it would last you a long time. FSB is good, the faster the better.

The more memory the better as well, you can close down and open programs much much faster. 512 should be enough to last you a while, since you wont be doing too much downloading. (yeah right! :D)

-Justin.

[Janak Parekh]

Don't go with Pentium. It is proven that AMD Athlon, at a slower speed ie. 1.6ghz runs faster than a Pentium @ 2GHZ.
That doesn't mean the P4 is useless. In fact, the Athlon is rated using a "+" moniker to match the P4 speeds -- so an Athlon XP 2400+ has similar performance metrics to a P4 2.4GHz, even though the 2400+ runs at a lower clock rate... that said, David, make sure you compare the pricing with an equivalent Athlon XP setup to see if you can save a few $.

And if you want speed with your CPU, go with the Athlon 64, its pricey, but then again it would last you a long time. FSB is good, the faster the better.
You might notice he's working on a budget... ;)

The more memory the better as well, you can close down and open programs much much faster. 512 should be enough to last you a while, since you wont be doing too much downloading. (yeah right! :D)
Agreed, although I fail to see how it has anything to do with downloading... I have 768MB at home and 1GB at work, although I multitask a lot.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Do you guys think XP Pro or Win2k would work better in a school/development environment?
XP Pro is quite a bit nicer on many small points, IMHO. It's like a Win2k+, so if you can get it, go for it.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Again, I just like the idea of a 800 MHz FSB. Has anyone had experience with DFI?
Not in the last 10 years... I used to use DFI products back when they actually called themselves "Diamond Flower Inc." 8O.. they were decent then. I use Intel mobos for P4s nowadays, but that's because I've gotten conservative about mainboards. (For Athlons, I use mostly ASUS products.)

I don't download music or play a ton of games, so 40 should fit me just fine. Do I need 8MB? Would 2MB be enough?
40GB should be OK, although you might find yourself using more space than you considered. :D The 8MB cache is really nice, and I do recommend you go for it, as Windows is fairly disk-intensive.

-I'll add a cheap GPU and nice case, too.
Maximus has a good suggestion. You might also want to see if you can get an ATI Radeon 9000/9600/9700 for a good price, now that the 9800s are out... I prefer a better GPU myself, since I game a lot. ;)

--janak

[JustinGTP]

Yes Janek, thats why I said it was pricey. Cut me some slack, Im sorry if Im not as technical as you, he wanted everyones perspective. :roll:

[maximus]

Even if someone has extra money to burn, until there are plenty of applications/operating systems that run in 64 bits, I personally would not recommend athlon 64. Instead, I would recommend Pentium 4 H/T Extreme Edition.

But of course, that will change with the release of XP 64 bit.

[prismejon]

Do you guys think XP Pro or Win2k would work better in a school/development environment?

They are pretty much the same - you could say that XP is W2K with glazing on top, so XP has more eye-candy and is a little more userfriendly.

[Janak Parekh]

Yes Janek, thats why I said it was pricey. Cut me some slack
Dude - you don't need to roll your eyes at me - I was not criticizing you.

In any case, I've gotta side with Maximus on this one. I don't think it's currently worth getting an Athlon 64 unless you really, really need the additional performance. Getting the very cutting-edge means a tremendous cost premium. For instance, the Athlon 64 3200+ is $428 and the Athlon 64 FX-51 is $755 (note that these are not retail, but rather street prices -- from Sharky Extreme (http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/WCPG/article.php/3086551)). The first is almost the entire price of his system, and the second is way over it. 8O

--janak

p.s. Oh, and it's Janak, not Janek, as it says in every post...

[TopDog]

Don't go with Pentium. It is proven that AMD Athlon, at a slower speed ie. 1.6ghz runs faster than a Pentium @ 2GHZ. I agree! I've always been an "Intel-man", but last time I buildt a new one (two months ago) I went for AMD because of my budget and wanting to try something new. Haven't looked back yet, my Athlon 2Ghz is everything I wanted, and it doesn't go warm at all as I've always been told by "Intel'ers"

As for chase... If you want big and safe, I would go for Chieftech. Not the most stylish ones, but very easy to use, good quality and good prices. I've used several of them.

Last time I took a chance here too, and went for a Shuttle Barebone(picture of it here (http://www.pdanorway.com/images/shuttle_in_action.jpg)). It's great so far. Makes a lot more noice than I thought, but I've heard it's possible to "tune it down", so I'm on the search for a link...

[JustinGTP]

Oh, and I don't know how you can stand your mouse TopDog!! And is that a PPC that I see FACE down??? :shock:

-Justin. I like the little pc:D

[Steven Cedrone]

And is that a PPC that I see FACE down??? :shock:

It looks like it's in an aluminum case to me... :wink:

Steve

[TopDog]

And is that a PPC that I see FACE down??? :shock:
It looks like it's in an aluminum case to me... :wink: That is absolutely right... it's a Dell Axim with a Proporta aluminum case 8)

[TopDog]

Oh, and I don't know how you can stand your mouse TopDog!!
I loved it! Took a little time getting used to, but now I love it... and I don't get that pain in my right arm that I get at work :-)

I like the little pc:D
Yeah, me too. I was a little scared going from a Midi-tower to a barebone... but I haven't missed it a second. And my girlfriend thinks it's a big improvement too(I have it in the livingroom).

[JustinGTP]

Well as long as you like your mouse, and how is the upgradeability on one of them bareboners?

[maximus]

You might also want to see if you can get an ATI Radeon 9000/9600/9700 for a good price, now that the 9800s are out... I prefer a better GPU myself, since I game a lot. ;)

--janak

Now that Radeon 9800 XT is out on the market ... I am assuming there will be further price drop on the Radeon 9600 pro and FX 5600 ultra ...

Sometimes it is really amazing to see people who are willing to pay $500 for a top of the line VGA card, and replace it every 6 months.

I have this friend back in singapore, he purchased an asus FX 5900 ultra about 2 months ago, for $500+, and now he is already looking at the XGI's dual processors VGA card ... he heh. Good for me, I guess I can negotiate his 'older' FX5900 ultra for somewhere around $300. Maybe $200, depending on his mood :mrgreen:

[TopDog]

how is the upgradeability on one of them bareboners?Well, changeing motherboard will be difficult as they are espesially fitted, but changeing CPU is no prob as long as it uses the same socket.

You have two RAM-slots, so you can get max 2GB of RAM.

There is one free PCI and one free AGP-port, so you can upgrade with a better graphic-card for example.

You can remove the floppydisk and use it for a second harddrive if you want, other than that you are pretty much stuck.

There is a lot of USB2 and firewire-ports. I'm planning on buying a Maxtor firewire disk.

[David Prahl]

Looks like I clicked the "stop watching this thread" link accidentaly! Sorry I've been absent from discussion, I figured it had fizzled out.

Thanks for the tips, everyone! I have a friend who swears by AMD, and your comments re-affirmed his ideas. Maybe an AMD 2400+ or so will be what I end up getting.

[David Prahl]

Is it true that Socket A mobos only go up to 400 Mhz on the FSB? Is it fair to compare a P4 2.4 @ 800Mhz to an AMD 2400+ @ 400Mhz?

[maximus]

Is it true that Socket A mobos only go up to 400 Mhz on the FSB? Is it fair to compare a P4 2.4 @ 800Mhz to an AMD 2400+ @ 400Mhz?

Not fair. That's why a P4 2.4 on intel 875 chipset with DDR400 RAMs is significantly faster than an athlon 2400+ on nforce2 with DDR400.

My own experience shown that a P4 2.4 on intel 875 is still faster than an athlon 2700+ on nforce2. I used to be an AMD addict, but lately I switched back to Intel.

See some reviews here:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030623/p4_3200-17.html
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/cpu_charts-32.html#comparison_table

Also take note on these quotes:

In our extensive benchmark tests, the P4 is always in the lead - we talked about this in our last article High-Flying: AMD Athlon XP 3200+ Squares Off Against Intel P4 3 GHz. To be fair, it must be said that AMD offers a good performance/ price ratio with its Athlon processors, but it still cannot quite keep up with the Intel CPUs.

The benchmark tests, on the other hand, leave no room for doubt: XP 2800+ would have been a more realistic label for the processor currently labelled by AMD as XP 3200+, which wouldn't have been a problem for anyone, if AMD still wants to go toe-to-toe with Intel's P4. But the 3200 label is much too aggressive - especially since Intel will be introducing an increased FSB clock for its lower-clocked P4 CPUs.

If you want it cheap, go with AMD, no question about it.
But if you want best performance, and can spare some more cash ($100 more), go with P4 (FSB800, H/T) with intel 875 chipset, and DDR400s

[David Prahl]

Thanks, Maximus!

Another question - what's the scoop on dual-channel RAM? Can only certain mobos accomodate it?

[maximus]

Dual channel RAM involved putting 2 (or the multiple of 2) similar DDR modules on your motherboard. They are required to be of the same speed, and the same size. Having DDR modules with same latency wll also help, that's why you see some RAM manufacturer sells 'matching' DDRs .. which are usually 'crazily' priced.

Basically they can be accessed at the same time, thus doubling the data rate. Consider it like putting 2 Harddrive on RAID 0.

So far, only motherboards with Intel 875 chipset can take the advantage of both the dual channel RAMs and DDR400s.

Putting two DDR modules on AMD chipset will not produce the same effect, because athlons will not be able to utilize the added bandwidth.

Hope this helps...