WaPosh: PPC has ugly inneficiency.

[SandersP]

Pagerero does it again. PPC sucks.

He is doing a a fluffy review of te/3/Z21 and all of a sudden out of nowhere he says PPC sucks. hmmm. Microsoft really needs to pull some string and flick this guy hard. He is consistently dis-ing PPC for the weirdest reasons.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42813-2003Oct4.html

"These changes fulfill most of the items on my Palm-software wish list. They also effectively destroy the consumer rationale for buying a Pocket PC-based handheld -- the Tungsten E has just about all of a Pocket PC's utility without any of its ugly inefficiency."

[JustinGTP]

Email him at [email protected] and tell him that his review is biased and that he is missing all of the points that palm cannot give you. He should be "enlightened" to the goodies of PPC.

If we all sent him an email, that would be say, about 1000 emails. Depending on who does it and who comes here.

-Justin :D

[Janak Parekh]

We've already done this.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5491

In fact, this led to one of Ed's more famous articles.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5971

He just flat-out doesn't listen/agree/whatever.

--janak

[SandersP]

Well at least according to him, previously despite all his whining, consumer had reasons to buy a PPC. He himself even had a list. But TE wipes all of them. (hmmm... what exactly does it wipes?)

Now hope X3 comes in below $180, and watch him tries to wiggle out of his own word about price and value.

heh heh.

[Cortex]

perhaps hes referring to the inefficient use of memory as i use my pocket pc phone to answer a phone call while listening to an MP3, open notepad and a medical reference, take notes, review a prior email then hang up to pick up where i left off listening to the song.

that does use some memory and it would be much simpler to use the PalmOS.

[Thinkingmandavid]

Ok, this guy doesnt know what he is talking about or is getting a kick back from palm, and I will be sure to email him just that.


These changes fulfill most of the items on my Palm-software wish list. They also effectively destroy the consumer rationale for buying a Pocket PC-based handheld -- the Tungsten E has just about all of a Pocket PC's utility without any of its ugly inefficiency.

I think we all know that the palm tungsten e does NOT just about have all the ppc has. I agree that the price of 199 is great and I would love to see a ppc at that price, but that is a basic model the tungsten e.

[Thinkingmandavid]

Ok, I just emailed that guy. If they are going to let him be so pro palm, then they should also have someone writing that is pro ppc. This guy has a problem writing unbaisedly and allowing people to judge for themselves.

[JustinGTP]

Sorry Janek,

But I was not in the know and so what, all of the other new people can email him again. More emails the better :D

[SandersP]

Okay here is an amazing fact. None of the big reviewer figure out about T|T3 SD frying slot. So basically those reviewer never test any Back up to SD feature. Obviously the Wapost guy didn't check this either. This is a major flaw. A show stopper. It can damage a hardware almost as expensive as the PDA itself.

That Brighthand editor is also weird case. He who usually reports every nitty gritty PPC failures with halcyon eagerness. But this Palm SD problem is posted today after almost a week from initial confirmed report with a mildly worded news as "Palm Looking for Help Diagnosing Tungsten T3 Problem" ?

Brighthand didn't shy away reporting WM 2003 May have a problem with Alarm, WM2K3 slows X5, or how Dell screw up with WM2k3 upgrade delivery date.

What is with that?

I think if this fry 'yer SD card model would have happened in PPC. The company would die a miserable death in no time.

[Kati Compton]

Okay here is an amazing fact. None of the big reviewer figure out about T|T3 SD frying slot. So basically those reviewer never test any Back up to SD feature. Obviously the Wapost guy didn't check this either. This is a major flaw. A show stopper. It can damage a hardware almost as expensive as the PDA itself.

<snip>

What is with that?

Probably they didn't test it. Magazines and such really don't pay well for reviews anymore, and frequently give short deadlines. It makes it very difficult to be thorough. So most reviewers just try to get the general feel of something, and if they notice detailed issues, great, but if they don't, there's not much they can do.

[WyattEarp]

You can't always change a person's view even when they are wrong. But in this case it sounds like he is writing about a topic he knows nothing about. So I suggest that if you want to make a proper protest you email the Washington Post itself and complain about the writer to the cheif editor about the unprofessional and uninformitive nature of the article. You can't and shouldn't write about a product you did not test or know nothing about even in the slightest.

[Thinkingmandavid]

Ok, I emailed this guy and here is his email back to me. Your e-mail confuses me. You accuse me of bias, but offer no evidence of that other than the most generic, unsupported assertions--"it has more than the Tungsten e by far." Tell me what a Pocket PC can do that the Tungsten E can't, and why a consumer--not a traveling executive or an MSCE--would care.

Furthermore, in case you were confused, a review *is an opinion.* If you want to read lists of features, you can look those up on the Palm and HP Web sites. It's my job to say what features work well and are worth having.


I havent emailed him back as of yet, but I am wondering if everyone else is getting the same kind of response from this guy???

[SandersP]

Is a review an opinion? He makes it sounds like Fox news channel. lol Gawd that WaPosh guy has been in the beltway far too long.

Ask him to define "consumer", then we'll give him a list of feature T|E can't do but h1935 or X3 can.

Probably he'll end up whining how the joe-six-pack only needs the built in organizer, after confronted with better examples of each apps that he tries to pass as 'joe six pack must have'.

I wonder if a consumer need replaceable battery or SDIO with WiFi capability or not. Does Joe six pack need a thing like PPC built in notepad or voice recorder?

hey now....

[Badandy]

"without converting them into some other format -- a first on any handheld."


He is talking about MS Office conversions.


I take it he hasn't heard of the award winning TextMaker, which will do anything a desktop word processor can (almost) ;) ?

[Badandy]

"They also effectively destroy the consumer rationale for buying a Pocket PC-based handheld -- the Tungsten E has just about all of a Pocket PC's utility without any of its ugly inefficiency."



lol. what an idiot. Maybe in his opinion it might, but previous posters have already said things that palm can't do.

[SoftMaker]

"without converting them into some other format -- a first on any handheld."


He is talking about MS Office conversions.


I take it he hasn't heard of the award winning TextMaker, which will do anything a desktop word processor can (almost) ;) ?
He is on our press list. So, if he reads press releases, he should have heard of TextMaker.

Martin Kotulla
SoftMaker Software GmbH

[SandersP]

Well obviously he thinks you guys are selling steak sandwidch or something instead of full featured wordprocessor for PDA.

Should send him a little email and a test software, maybe he has an 'opinion'. But than again probably he'll shred PPC textmaker for not being palm enough. But here is the fun part, once the rumored POS version is out send him again and see if he is going to have different opinion on exactly same implementation.

: :devilboy:

[Thinkingmandavid]

Ok, here is the email that I just sent to this guy,
Thanks for emailing. I am wondering if a review is an opinion? It seems to me that if you are doing a review as you have stated, then it is to be unbiased so the reader can make a decision based on fair reading and actual use of the pda's. If it is biased then it isnt a review, it is more of persusion of what to buy, and if that is the case then all you are doing is advertising for a particular product. What you are doing is what Palm can easily do on their website.

You stated, "It is my job to say what features work well and are worth having." This may be true if you are doing it unbaisedly and for both operating systems, but such is not the case.




Now I will wait and see if and what he responds.
Has anyone looked at the palm website to see the features of the Tungsten e? I just went there and it is not too bad of a pda. Now I am not saying I am converting, far from, I will never go back to the dark side 8)
MMM, maybe a side by side comparison of the two pda's may not be such a bad idea. thoughts anyone?????????

[SandersP]

For very basic core PIM function it might not be that much of a different. But once it hits things like emulators, utilities, todays screen, or applications like PI/AF, graphics, games, wireless, audio recorder, multimedia files...

like I say, the Palm built in apps aren't even at the same level as PPC (media player, notepad, email). PPC freebie apps are also that much more sophisticated. Finally all PPC paywares...

POS is still not that much ahead from those Bejeweled datebk, DTG.

[Skoobouy]

Actually, I didn't find the article that bad. I wrote and received a fair response. Since Hotmail doesn't save sent messages :evil: I only have his response.


Me:> However, there are certain arguable points in your latest overview:

Rob: Alright, let me try to address them...

>First, I almost laughed when I read, "Calendar events now include
>categories and locations and can start one day and finish on another --
>yes, your Palm will finally let you stay out past midnight!" You mean
>Palms have _never_ had those?

Correct, and I've complained about this in print in the past. But in the
real world, it's not that big of a deal. My schedule is rarely that full
after midnight anyway :)

>You also wrote, "you can edit Microsoft Word and Excel files on the
>Tungsten E without converting them into some other format -- a first on
>any handheld."
>
>Well, it is a first in one sense: DtG 6 actually comes with the device.
>Big point in Palm's favor. (in my original message, I mentioned TextMaker)

That's the point I had in mind. I was expecting to see Palm only bundle DtG
5, since 6 was only unveiled a few weeks ago--but the company really
stepped up on this point.

>Finally, you wrote, "They also effectively destroy the consumer rationale
>for buying a Pocket PC-based handheld -- the Tungsten E has just about all
>of a Pocket PC's utility without any of its ugly inefficiency."
>
>Now stop the train just a second. The iPaq h1935, the Tungsten E's direct
>price-competitor, is smaller, has a larger screen, has a more familiar
>interface for new users, has natural handwriting (and nevermind the 'three
>segments' that drive you crazy; Graffiti drives me crazy), and a real
>file-system.

At the risk of starting a minor flame war <g>, I have to disagree here as
well. The E is slightly larger, but it has a higher-res screen (320 by 320
instead of 240 x 320). I don't find the "more familiar interface" argument
to be even slightly credible--I've never seen anybody have a problem
figuring out how to work a Palm OS device, while Pocket PC has regularly
confused me even though I spend about 50 hours a week staring at the
Windows GUI.

I have no idea what "real" file system is supposed to mean, unless you're
trying to say that the Pocket PC's file system offers the same chance to
forget where you put a file as Windows itself.

But I agree that the choice of three handwriting-input methods is an
advantage in the Pocket PC world. (Palms now use a three-segment version of
Graffiti as well, called Graffiti 2.)

>Is the h1935 obviously better? Of course not; but it will serve some needs
>better than others. I just thought "destroy" was a pretty strong word.
>More like "challenge."

Let me put this question to you: Why would a consumer--not a developer, not
a traveling professional with 200,000 ff miles--want to buy that iPaq or a
comparable model over the Tungsten E? What's the big advantage there?

- R

[PetiteFlower]

I'm a consumer. I find the Palm UI confusing and PPC intuitive. I think the 19xx is sexier then any Tungsten. And resolution means very little to me. But multi-tasking, on the other hand, I find essential.

But this guy is an idiot and it's pointless to argue with him since it's obvious he's made up his mind and isn't open to suggestions.

[Thinkingmandavid]

I agree with petiteflower, i havent gotten a response as of yet. IN answer to his question, the reason to buy the ppc over the palm is because of familiarity of use for one. That alone is a great argument. In fact, if i show people that and they like that the most. they see it for themselves and recognize there is nothing new to learn.

[Thinkingmandavid]

I have no idea what "real" file system is supposed to mean, unless you're
trying to say that the Pocket PC's file system offers the same chance to
forget where you put a file as Windows itself.


If he is talking about himself forgetting the files or anyone else, that is the users fault not the os, duh!

[doogald]

At the risk of starting a minor flame war <g>, I have to disagree here as well. The E is slightly larger, but it has a higher-res screen (320 by 320 instead of 240 x 320). I don't find the "more familiar interface" argument to be even slightly credible--I've never seen anybody have a problem figuring out how to work a Palm OS device, while Pocket PC has regularly confused me even though I spend about 50 hours a week staring at the Windows GUI.

Well, he's never met me. I have been using PCs since 1983, a PDA since 1999, have used PsPC and Psion's EPOC before Pocket PC. I am always fumbling around with Palm OS devices - can't stand the buggers - and I find Pocket PC and EPOC very intuitive. It's obviously not just me.

It's one thing to like a platform over another - we all do that - but to take swings at the other does not seem like something the Washington Post would want in a reviewer, IMHO. Give me a T|E and I think that I could review it well for its intended audience, and, despite the fact that I dislike using Palms, I have recommended them to people before, based on their needs.

[PatrickD]

Wow this guy is really biased. I read his old review of the dell axim and here is what he says about the battery life.

"The Axim's lithium-ion battery was spent after five days of moderate use; it can be ejected and swapped out for another battery ($59 at Dell's Web site), and a tiny secondary cell serves as a backup. Fortunately, you can plug the Axim's AC adapter directly into the handheld. A hefty, metallic docking cradle can recharge both the Axim and a second battery at the same time but isn't included in the entry-level price."

What he says is true, but look at how negatively it is written. Now what does he say about the tungsten E

“Its rechargeable lithium-ion battery should provide a few hours of MP3 playback, several days of use otherwise.”

The Treo 600

“The 600's internal lithium-ion battery lasted for four days of moderate use in one test, seven hours (!) of talk time in a second test. Handspring says the CDMA version will offer closer to four hours of talk time; on either model, a backup battery should preserve your data for four days after the main battery runs out.”

Looks like the Treo has a tiny secondary cell as well. I noticed he didn’t mention the T3’s battery life.

I agree that a review is essentially that reviewers opinion. However if the reviewer is completely biased his opinion is worthless to me since I can’t count on all products getting a fair review.

[SandersP]

-He was complaining that he couldn't find driver for his CF WiFi for X5. (which exist anyway) But He does'nt complain a bit about lack of wireless in T|E

-He said, T|E is great. Now it come with DTG6.0 wich can open office file immediately. This has been on his wish list. (ie. indicating that he choses Palm before despite the lack of that particular feature over PPC) So he will pick Palm despite a lack of feature he himself admits. (Does it means he can't recommend PPC because it has the feature he is looking for?)

Basically he will use double standard, and try to spin Palm's lack of feature as something user doesn't need, untill of course Palm has it. Then he will change his tune and say Palm has matched PPC and there is no reason to buy PPC.

ehr yeah. I wonder if He owns Palm Inc. stock.

[SandersP]

His previous articles

Dell X5 review
Dude, You're Getting a So-So Handheld

"The Pocket PC handwriting software is particularly maddening. Its letter recognizer accepts regular characters, unlike Palm's Graffiti, but it requires you to write them in three areas -- capital, lowercase, and most numbers and punctuation. Periods, however, can be written in all three spaces, which results in an errant tap being interpreted as a period. Write an "l" and then a space and it will replace both characters with a "t." Its auto-complete word suggestions obscure the bottom two lines of text."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21116-2002Dec6.html

Say what..?!

"Dell's Home screen, which lists installed software in various categories, is half-baked, with a cryptic, primitive customization screen that looks like an inept clone of Windows 3.1's Program Manager. "

This is T|3 Homescreen. I don't see him complaining about primitive customization screen that looks like an inept clone of Win 3.1.
http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/images2/t3-22.jpg

His WM2k3 review. (don't buy it)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57852-2002Dec15.html

He did try to say he is not a Palmie
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57852-2002Dec15.html


Chat transcript, (after his dell review)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/02/regular/r_technews_pegoraro120902.htm

If Dell X5 is a soso handheld, how come T|E is a handheld to buy eventho it doesn't have hardware to match the so so X5, let alone h1930?

The T|E doesn't even come with browser. I don't see him complaing about it.

[JustinGTP]

Wow, Sanders, you are right on the spot with your digging around. How does this guy do it hey? I mean, he is such a palmie. I like how everyone has done their research, I will never ever believe this man again when it comes to PPCs!

Hmm..

-Justin.

[Thinkingmandavid]

I think the first review i read was when this thread was started.
I hadnt thought about that part yet, but you are right, the screen on the T3 is a joke. Maybe thats it!!! He is one of those dudes from back in the day and he feels more at home with windows 3.1 look :shocked!:
OH, and the guy should know that the ppc learns your handwriting, I dont see the palm doing that. INstead users are asked to learn writing instead of the pda. Now tell me who is on top of their game! :twisted:

[Thinkingmandavid]

ok, here is his response to my last email.
At 07:45 PM 10/12/2003 -0700, you wrote:

Thanks for emailing. I am wondering if a review is an opinion?


Yes. Always. In my time here, I've reviewed not just hardware and software but also books, bars and concerts. (Correct, I have gone from reviewing Pearl Jam to Palm handhelds; shows you what I know :) In each case, the reviewer has to bring a subjective eye to things, placing some aspects of the good/service/performance above others to decide if the whole thing is good or not.

It seems to me that if you are doing a review as you have stated, then it is to be unbiased so the reader can make a decision based on fair reading and actual use of the pda's. If it is biased then it isnt a review, it is more of persusion of what to buy, and if that is the case then all you are doing is advertising for a particular product. What you are doing is what Palm can easily do on their website.


No, because Palm won't also say "we screwed up by not including WiFi on the T3." (They might admit this whenever the T4 comes around with WiFi on board, however.)

You stated, "It is my job to say what features work well and are worth having." This may be true if you are doing it unbaisedly and for both operating systems, but such is not the case.


You seem to be treating both the Palm and Pocket PC OSes as inherently equal. But they're not. For some users, PPC offers must-have features--multi-tasking, the ability to log into a Windows VPN, etc. But I'm the home-computing guy here, and those features don't really matter. What does is the one thing that Microsoft can't seem to grasp in designing software for handhelds: simplicity.

I see the toughest competition for Palms and Pocket PCs as not each other, but paper. Microsoft doesn't seem to realize that, but Palm does. I'd like to see Microsoft wake up to this sometime.

- R



THOUGHTS????????????

[Thinkingmandavid]

By the way, i disagree with what he said about simplicity, I dont see how a ppc is not as "simple" to use as a palm. that is actually an insult to computer users. like duh!!! it is the same microsoft and when youlook at your ppc you are looking at your 'start' on your home computer. go figure. :roll:

[PetiteFlower]

He claims he uses a Windows PC for 40 hours a week, yet thinks PPC is complicated. Obviously he's too stupid to bother arguing with ;)

Honestly though, why are you wasting your time? You're never going to get anywhere with this guy.

[doogald]

He's entitled to his opinion. We all have them.

I honestly have a big problem for some reason using Palm handhelds, but that's probably because I am used to using PPCs. That is probably the case here for him.

As for the Dell "Home" program - he is absolutely right. It may look the same, but the customization of it - creating icons (which are not created when you install new apps for some reason), moving them to other pages, etc. - is not idiot-proof, is quite cumbersome, and, yes, reminds me pretty much of Program Manager from Win 3.1. The resulting app may look the same as the Palm launcher, but it's the adding new apps, customizing them, etc., which is probably what he was talking about.

It does seem strange that he faults PPC's letter recognition when block recognizer is pretty much a clone of Grafitti, except that you can actually see a trail of what you are scribing at the time that you scribe it.

But no matter how many times that we e-mail him he is not going to change his mind.

I don't know; ask him how he handles e-mail addresses for people who have multiple e-mail addresses, one at work, one at home. He uses a custom field? Can he grab the e-mail address from the field for the e-mail application? Oh, that's right; he doesn't NEED or WANT an e-mail application in his PDA planner.

He's defined a narrow list of requirements for a PDA user, one that happens to favor Palm OS, but not much. It would be interesting to see what he thinks of a Symbian smartphone. I take that back; I honestly don't care what her thinks of a smartphone.

It's pretty much a waste of time to argue with him, though, since he's never going to change his mind. It might be better to write to the ombudsman at the Wash Post to complain about him, that having a reviewer biased toward one particular platform is not serving the readers of the Post all that well.

[SandersP]

ok, here is his response to my last email.
At 07:45 PM 10/12/2003 -0700, you wrote:

Thanks for emailing. I am wondering if a review is an opinion?


Yes. Always. In my time here, I've reviewed not just hardware and software but also books, bars and concerts. (Correct, I have gone from reviewing Pearl Jam to Palm handhelds; shows you what I know :) In each case, the reviewer has to bring a subjective eye to things, placing some aspects of the good/service/performance above others to decide if the whole thing is good or not.

seem to grasp in designing software for handhelds: simplicity.

I see the toughest competition for Palms and Pocket PCs as not each other, but paper. Microsoft doesn't seem to realize that, but Palm does. I'd like to see Microsoft wake up to this sometime.

- R



THOUGHTS????????????

He is full of it.
1. factually wrong doesn't make an opinion.
2. double standards in reviews are the difference between usable review baseline and a plain ' You have to buy this cause I say so, the heck with feature, you don't need no stinkin' feature'.

[Thinkingmandavid]

I am actually having fun with the guy. I am not trying to change his mind because like petiteflower said, it is a waste of mine. But I am finding it interesing his responses to what I have said and how he responds. I appears to me that the more this guy talks the less he makes sense and more importantly how he says stupid things. I think this is what his brain goes through on this issue :microwave: MOO HA HA!!! :!: :!: :!:

[Kati Compton]

Actually, to some degree I agree with his response that the biggest competition for any handheld is paper... But this seems something that should be discussed in a feature article, not in a review of one particular unit. Or it should be mentioned if something is a downside (or upside!) to ALLl PDAs vs. paper.

Seems a reasonable response...

Not that I'm saying his original article was "right".

[SandersP]

Yes but wouldn't discussing the advantage of paper vs PDA be outside the scope of 'PDA review'? sounds to me he is trying to change the subject on the debate if his review between PDA has value or not, by trivializing it alltogether and reject PDA usefullness when compared to 'Paper'. That sort opiniong is so broad it's meaningless.

Why compare it to paper and pencil? why not notepad and pen or etch a sketch?

...heck, why not compare a PDA to a Taco?

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200310/N03.1008.1141.15670.htm

Plus his comment how Palm inc is getting the idea that PDA should approach papers utility while Microsoft does not also deserve further inquiry. Tho' for some reason, I doubt he is making any deep observation beside yet another cheap jab.

That guy is complaining about the usefullness of transcriber and now he is claiming Palm is closer to paper? I want to see him writing grafitti on paper.

[Kati Compton]

Yes but wouldn't discussing the advantage of paper vs PDA be outside the scope of 'PDA review'?

Did you read my post? Isn't that what I said?

Actually, to some degree I agree with his response that the biggest competition for any handheld is paper... But this seems something that should be discussed in a feature article, not in a review of one particular unit.

...heck, why not compare a PDA to a Taco?
If you think people are going to replace Tacos with PDAs, sure. :roll:

The point is, that MOST people currently use paper methods of keeping track of appointments, addresses, phone numbers, birthdays, notes, reminders, to-do lists, etc. So if someone is going to move from a paper system to buying a first PDA, then that is a valid comparison to make. I don't see why this upsets you so much.

Essentially, if you want a PDA review written from the point of view of people that already own PDAs, read reviews here or at the Gadgeteer, etc. General-purpose publications are just going to review based on what they feel is the average reader - who probably doesn't own a PDA yet, or has an old Palm unit.

Again, I'm not saying he did a great job, just that I think it's valid to compare PDAs to the efficiency of a paper system (though not as much for a single unit review).

[Thinkingmandavid]

comparing the graffiti to the handwriting on the palm to me is bologne. YOu have to learn graffiti with the palm, on the ppc it learns YOUR writing, so let me see,mmmm, which is the better of the two.

in fact, the notestoday that is on another just strengthens theppc, of course out of the box the handwriting is ok.

[charleski]

I hope you lot realise how defensive you're all sounding. :)
As if the opinion of one reviewer was a big deal anyway...

[Thinkingmandavid]

I think it is important for people to be fair to the public about things. It is the same things if someone were to print an article about one of our countries and cultures saying one is better than the other, especially if some of what is being said is totally uneducated. This is the same things withthe guy from the washington post, he is saying stuff that is dumb and he is being biased. I dont mind him saying things bad about ppc, i mind he is not being unbiased :!:

[SandersP]

Palm inc cites pagerero comment about Palm's product in their merger roas show. (probably on their SEC filing too)

[Thinkingmandavid]

I havent looked to see what palm, oh excuse me, palmone :roll: has included. I am sure anyone that something good about them and bad about ppc is on their good list