Palm Tungsten T3 Reviews [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

Ed Hansberry

10-01-2003, 06:00 PM

<a href="http://www.brighthand.com/article/Hands_On_The_Palm_Tungsten_T3">http://www.brighthand.com/article/Hands_On_The_Palm_Tungsten_T3</a> For those of you interested in the latest from the competition, Brighthand has reviewed the newest family member of the Palm Tungsten T line, the T3. There are a few things of interest. • It has a 320X480 screen, capable of portrait and landscape. Very nice. • 5.1 (open)/4.3 (closed) in. tall, 3.0 in. wide and .66 in. thick, 5.5 ounces. This comes in slightly larger than the 2215 in almost all dimensions which is 4.54 x 3.00 x 0.61 in, 5.1oz. Very pocketable. • Palm (not PalmSource) redid the PIM apps to work better with Outlook and now has a Pocket PC-like Today screen. Contacts supports multiple addresses as well. It wasn't mentioned in the review, but I would think this is going to be a problem for fans of the Palm Desktop product, especially if you have multiple devices. I'm sure Palm will now tout these new features heavily though. "You don't need it until we have it." • Native support for .XLS and .DOC files. And yes, now that native support exists on the device, it too strips out much information, just like the Pocket Excel and Pocket Word we've all come to know and love. • This quote was odd. "I've found that I get about three hours of use out of each charge. That's enough for one day's use for me, but I have to remember to recharge it every night." In <a href="http://www.brighthand.com/article/Does_size_really_matter">this article from 2001</a> the battery life of the original iPAQ 3600 is criticized, which on a bad day had 6 hours of life. Other articles and threads contain similar criticisms of the battery lives of various Pocket PCs over the years compared to Palm counterparts. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the diminutive Audiovox Maestro had under 4 hours of battery life. I guess bad battery life is in the eye of the beholder, and then it depends on which device they 'beholding. :wink: • It is $400, which pits it directly against the 2215. On the face of it, the 2215 has much better battery life, a CF slot (great for that WiFi card without giving up your SD storage) and is slightly smaller. The T3 though has a much larger screen with landscape support. Pocket PC OEMs had better get on the ball on this screen issue.

PJE

10-01-2003, 06:23 PM

I have my doubts as to the usefulness of the slider, especially as it's hiding screen area. I would prefer smaller buttons and D-pad below the screen...

However, 480x320 blows the PocketPC out of the water! Hopefully the new Toshiba will be able to use it's 640x480 resolution screen and get back the advantage.

Palm has also integrated on-the-fly Portrait/Landscape switching, and most developers will be supporting it in the very near future.

Unless Microsoft steps up the screen support I feel my next machine may be a OS6 Palm!!!!

It now looks like the gamble Microsoft's PocketPC team made to take the easy way out and not support larger screen resolutions and different orientations will be proven to be very short sighted.

My 2c

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 06:24 PM

The T3 looks like a great product, but I'm none too fond of the slider. I hated it on the TT and T2. Other than that, my other gripe was the lack of a flip cover, but PalmOne seems to have listened to customer complaints because they did include a nice leather (or simulated) flip cover. Gotta love that.

Still, I think I'm going to hold out for the Zodiac. T3 is a kick ass handheld, but I don't think it's the one for me. For that matter, neither is the Zodiac...but there is no such thing as perfection. Just pick what you like.

Chris Spera

10-01-2003, 06:26 PM

I just bought a Tungsten|T in order to finish a series on PDA software for Computer Power User Magazine.

The |T1 is a great PDA. I was very surprised at what Palm presented with this unit. Its really the first PalmOS device that I have every REALLY used.

The |T3 looks tempting. It uses what appears to be OS6 (based on Landscape support), and unless some PPC OEM's get it together and include native Landscape support for Pocket PC, this could be a big advantage for Palm. It also appears to use a virtual silk screen area (like the Sony NR series). While I don't like Graffiti or Graffiti2, and prefer to use Calligrapher or Transcriber, the extra screen realestate that the virtual silk screen provides when in use by other programs is a huge plus.

I wonder how HP, Dell, etc. will, if at all, respond to this new device.

Kind Regards,

Christopher Spera

Deslock

10-01-2003, 06:30 PM

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 06:35 PM

Agreed on all points, Chris. The ball is in Microsoft's court now. Their next moves will decide Pocket PC's future. One thing is for certain, they cannot keep this platform locked into the current status quo. PalmOS's higher screen resolution will continue to nip at Microsoft's heels. And as more PalmOS devices become increasingly advanced, it may steer more "power users" away from PPC. Hard to believe that just two years ago PPC was the platform of choice for those seeking the most powerful hardware. Now that choice is not so easy to make. Microsoft is a sleeping giant. They had better wake up a take a good hard look at what the other camp is doing.

mattchapin

10-01-2003, 06:40 PM

• Native support for .XLS and .DOC files. And yes, now that native support exists on the device, it too strips out much information, just like the Pocket Excel and Pocket Word we've all come to know and love.

Actually, this is not the whole truth. Documents to Go 6 gives you a choice, which I think is fantastic.

If you use the DTG hotsync conduit to transfer an MS Office document to your Palm, it is converted to the proprietary DTG file format, but the formatting of the original document is preserved even after you edit it and sync it back.

However, if you've received a native MS Office format document via email on your Palm, or just have one saved on your flash memory card, you can still open it and edit it on the Palm -- you'll just lose some of the formatting.

Matt

Janak Parekh

10-01-2003, 06:42 PM

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 06:42 PM

http://www.pocketfactory.com/images/grandma.gif

SandersP

10-01-2003, 06:42 PM

3 hrs battery life, non replaceable 900mAh battery,
built in office that doesn't retain all format, a fake today's page.

Hey! Is it me or Palm is trying to make iPAQ3700?
This is so funny.

Ed Hansberry

10-01-2003, 06:45 PM

WyattEarp

10-01-2003, 06:53 PM

I wish Pocket PC manufacturers would make larger screens standard (3.8" or 4.0" would be nice) these 3.5" displays are killing me. Smaller is not better when it comes to displays. Palm will have one up on them again if they don't do something. Pocket PCs are good but good be much better.

PlayAgain?

10-01-2003, 06:56 PM

I've never bought a Palm based device, and this is the first time I've ever looked at a Palm based device and though "Hmmmm, I'd like one of those".

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 06:57 PM

I guess bad battery life is in the eye of the beholder, and then it depends on which device they 'beholding.

Ed, are you saying Brighthand shows favoritism towards PalmOS devices. My God! I am shocked. Shocked and awed. :scatter:

alcdroid

10-01-2003, 07:01 PM

I am a bit confused as to why Palm decided to ship the T3 with such a small battery....especially considering the power of the device itself. I also find it strange that the PalmOS is starting to look more and more like PocketPC.

Still, it is a magnificent device, and I think the combination of features, hype, and brand loyalty will make this unit a big seller. While HiRes+ and landscape are great features, but the poor battery life is just too big an issue for me to consider replacing my PPC for it.

Here's to hoping the T3 gives enough incentive for MS and PPC OEMs to innovate...and soon! :D

Cheers!

10-01-2003, 07:02 PM

3 hrs battery life, non replaceable 900mAh battery,
built in office that doesn't retain all format, a fake today's page.

Hey! Is it me or Palm is trying to make iPAQ3700?
This is so funny.

The fact that PPC Word loses almost all formatting could make me dump my 2210 in favor of a TT3.

This 3 hour batterylife of the TT3 is on par with my 2210. Most of the time it's less than 3 hours...in normal use! I fully agree with Deslock....my 3630 battery (I had 3 of them) NEVER lasted longer than two hours...

Carel

Janak Parekh

10-01-2003, 07:08 PM

This 3 hour batterylife of the TT3 is on par with my 2210. Most of the time it's less than 3 hours...in normal use!
Huh. Sounds like something's wrong with your 2210, or maybe you use it at full brightness? Even then, it shouldn't be that short from my experiences.

I fully agree with Deslock....my 3630 battery (I had 3 of them) NEVER lasted longer than two hours...
Well, the 36xx units had a very sensitive battery, prone to a loss of capacity even in standby (about 10% per day), so you wanted to cradle it whenever you weren't using it. However, I know for a fact I used to get 2 hours of MP3s off my Microdrive on my old 3650, and much more than that reading ebooks.

--janak

10-01-2003, 07:08 PM

Ed, are you saying Brighthand shows favoritism towards PalmOS devices. My God! I am shocked. Shocked and awed. :scatter:

Yeah...I'm glad Pocketpcthoughts isn't that biased :wink:

SandersP

10-01-2003, 07:09 PM

The fact that PPC Word loses almost all formatting could make me dump my 2210 in favor of a TT3.

This 3 hour batterylife of the TT3 is on par with my 2210. Most of the time it's less than 3 hours...in normal use! I fully agree with Deslock....my 3630 battery (I had 3 of them) NEVER lasted longer than two hours...
Carel

you are joking right? I've never heard of 3hrs h2210 even under most abusive case of continuous SNES emulator.

believe me, with no picture, no footnote etc. that STG is about as good as pOffice. and DTG is the BEST choice, instead of dinky bundled freebie like pOffice.

so, yeah. I take h2210 thanks.

guinness

10-01-2003, 07:11 PM

Can you really complain too much about the battery life when the iPaq 4155 has a 1000 mAh battery (replaceable) and WiFi + BT? You would have to carry around several extra batteries if you used WiFi heavily, would you not?

Palm should at least made the battery replaceable.

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 07:13 PM

Yeah...I'm glad Pocketpcthoughts isn't that biased :wink:

Yeah, but this is after all a POCKET PC fan site. Brighthand is supposed to be platform agnostic since it caters to both camps.

Ed Hansberry

10-01-2003, 07:15 PM

Ed, are you saying Brighthand shows favoritism towards PalmOS devices. My God! I am shocked. Shocked and awed. :scatter:Yeah...I'm glad Pocketpcthoughts isn't that biased :wink:
Hey, we call ourselves Pocket PC Thoughts. We do have a bias and put it in our URL and name. It would be different if we claimed to be device/platform agnostic.

Janak Parekh

10-01-2003, 07:16 PM

Can you really complain too much about the battery life when the iPaq 4155 has a 1000 mAh battery (replaceable) and WiFi + BT? You would have to carry around several extra batteries if you used WiFi heavily, would you not?
Probably, but this is 3 hours with no Wi-Fi.

--janak

SandersP

10-01-2003, 07:18 PM

daveshih

10-01-2003, 07:20 PM

The |T3 looks tempting. It uses what appears to be OS6 (based on Landscape support), and unless some PPC OEM's get it together and include native Landscape support for Pocket PC, this could be a big advantage for Palm. It also appears to use a virtual silk screen area (like the Sony NR series). While I don't like Graffiti or Graffiti2, and prefer to use Calligrapher or Transcriber, the extra screen realestate that the virtual silk screen provides when in use by other programs is a huge plus.

I wonder how HP, Dell, etc. will, if at all, respond to this new device.

Christopher Spera

This reminds me of Handera 330.
http://www.handera.com/images/330image.gif

Remember Handera http://www.handera.com/Products/HandEra330.aspx? Has virtual Graffiti before anybody, but nobody cared. Has high-res before anybody, but nobody cared. Has BOTH CF-II and SD/MMC before anybody, but nobody cared....for a long time, until recently.

Too bad Handera is no longer producing hardware.

Dave

10-01-2003, 07:25 PM

Sure, I do know that Pocketpcthoughts is biased towards pocketpc's. I absolutely don't have a problem with that. It's just fun to read both "camps" and read all the pro's and con's of pocketpc and palm. Thoughts is one the sites that made me choose a pocketpc in the first place :wink: and perhaps Brighthand is the site that makes me have a closer look at the TT3....that's all.

b.t.w. my 2210 does run 3 hours MAX in daily use....backlight at 1/3 - 1/2 occ. use of BT and most of the time PIM and POffice....no games. According to HP 3 hours could be a bit more but they stated my 2210 battery is not defective.

Scott R

10-01-2003, 07:29 PM

Hmm...One could say that the "issue" of battery life is one of those things that PPC manufacturers treated as "you don't need it until we have it." Funny, eh? I wonder how many people raising the TT3's battery life as such a horrible issue have only been PPC users since they started to offer decent battery life?

Face it, the TT3 is a great looking device. You don't have to feel ashamed to say it. And the louder you say it, the quicker Microsoft will move on getting higher-res screens and landscape support working.

Personally, I'm a bang-for-the-buck kind of guy. The TT3 is very nice and offers a lot for the price, but there are other great bargains out their right now (for both PPCs and Palms) as well. I also don't like the goofy D-pad on the TT3 and the buttons shaped around it. But it seems like most manufacturers these days are designing their D-Pads and buttons to look cool first and operate well a distant second.

Scott

hopeful797

10-01-2003, 07:30 PM

i went from a palm vx to a ipaq 3600 and have stuck with it for the last 2.5 years because i never saw any advantage to upgrade to a slower platform and a silver slider gave me the CF access i wanted. i've loved my ipaq. but this is the first palm os device to make me reconsider, particularly if it can upgrade to OS 6 (which is in question at the moment). the bigger landscape screen is just terrific with the higher resolution too. as for battery life, from day 1, my ipaq 3600 under typical office use never got more than 3 hours of use, and less than that if i had many alarms and screen tap sounds on or used mediaplayer (prob 2 hours with screen off). after 2.5 years, the battery life expectedly is such that i cannot use the backlight at all. but i've been holding out for the next PPC to replace it and the fact that a ipaq loyalist like would even consider a palm (which seemed so primitive years ago) again shows how poorly MS has done in innovating. :-( i still can't believe that the current version 2003 OS can just barely make a 5555 run as fast as my ipaq. and the 2215 is too plasticky for me. the t3 is actually aluminum (from early reports)!

this doesn't mean i'm going to switch. only that it's given em a reason to think about doing so when the PPC was 2.5 years ahead of the competition in 2000.

Ed Hansberry

10-01-2003, 07:38 PM

Hmm...One could say that the "issue" of battery life is one of those things that PPC manufacturers treated as "you don't need it until we have it." Funny, eh?
It would be funny if it was true, but it isn't.

• You never had MS saying that their battery life was enough. MS worked with Intel and OEMs on battery saving APIs over the years to get it where it is now and they continue to do so.
• You never had OEMs saying they didn't want to do longer battery lives and then go back to the labs to increase battery life
• Users, self included, would say that 6-8 hours was generally enough, but it did mean you had to take a charger on even 2-3 day trips.
• The palm battery thing got funny when Palm started posting comparisons that had "iPAQ 3600 battery - 6 hours, Palm IIIc battery - 4 weeks" on their web site.
• PPC OEMs, in addition to increasing battery lives and sizes have switched almost completely to replaceable batteries for this reason. The only ones that don't have replacable batteries that I'm aware of are designes from 2002 that are still being produced with some tweaked innards - Toshiba e3xx series for example.

So basically, no one ever said "you don't need it" on this issue, so your comment makes no sense. Again, thanks for playing Scott. Better luck next time. :roll:

SofaTater

10-01-2003, 08:10 PM

I have to chime in and say that three hours battery life does not sound unreasonable to me. I never get more than three hours out of a charge on my iPAQ 1910 -- and I've had two of them. Even keeping my backlight at the lowest setting, I can't get more than three hours out of a full charge...

However, this is not really a problem for me since I seldom use it long enough at one shot for battery life to be an issue.

Prevost

10-01-2003, 08:17 PM

Brighthand gives Sony kids glove treatment on their review. All Sony devices never get bashed about weak battery despite being shorter than PPC.

but enters PPC, man... rag rag rag.

Now observer TT3 with less than pathetic battery life. Even dinky h1910 is better than that. Do you see brighthand ragging about battery life?
As some car magazine's reviews: "the Chrysler's rear door shape leaves nasty scars on other vehicles when opened..." being the same shape of Mercedes and BMWs. C'mon men...

I would like to know the brightness setting this reviewer was using the device. But again, very funny if it not where for the biased-feeling it gives, that he writes that this battery life must be due for the "power of the proccessor", the superb screen, and the "generous" memory. If you are giving those, then the battery must be on par, isn't it so?

Deslock

10-01-2003, 08:19 PM

Ed, I might be wrong, but I thought 3 hours with the T3 was for intensive multimedia use. That's not much less than what I get on my HP2210 if I use it that way and the iPAQ 3600 commonly got under 2 hours when used that way (but at least the 2210 has a swappable battery).
Not per the article. This isn't a torture test where I keep the device on until the battery is dead. I'm using the T3 normally and tracking the amount of time it takes to empty the battery with Jeroen Witteman's BatteryGraph.

Just normal use.
Ah... I was thinking of a different review (I've read a lot of them today). I wonder what normal use is for Brighthand since other reviews have been saying real-world battery life is 4-5 hours. The shortest reported battery life I've seen, other than the Brighthand article, is 3-4.5 hours, and that was with "hefty" usage ("lots of Bluetooth, audio, web browsing and games" according to the review).

Still not great battery life on a device with a fixed battery, but I had a small battery pack that ran off 4 AAs for my old Clie T6x5s... it was $8 and worked great. I'd rather have the swappable battery, but at least there are other options available.

The battery life isn't the T3's biggest shortcoming to me though... it's that slider mechanism. IMHO, it only kinda-sorta made sense with the virtual grafitti area. With an actual screen underneath, I don't see its advantage at all.

Still, I'm gonna try a T3 out before I dismiss it outright.

Scott R

10-01-2003, 08:21 PM

So basically, no one ever said "you don't need it" on this issue, so your comment makes no sense. Again, thanks for playing Scott. Better luck next time. :roll:Actually, it does, because "Palm" never said the things you continuously claim that they did, either. You see, it's just mythical quotes that you continuously recite every time you get a chance. "Palm said you didn't need this" and "Palm said you didn't need that," etc. And even if some particular person within Palm said it, who cares?

Further, you can't take quotes out of the context of the timeframe when they were said. Bill Gates said we only needed 640K. That was probably true at the time. Technology evolves. Companies that don't work to advance their technology will go out of business. Palm has offered what a certain segment of the population wants with this T3, and continue to provide what the majority of consumers "need" with the Zire (as evidenced by sales figures). Are these devices perfect? Certainly not. Personally, I don't like the ergonomics of much of what they're offering which they, interestingly, did a much better job at in the past.

Scott

jnunn

10-01-2003, 08:23 PM

SCREEN RESOLUTION
SCREEN RESOLUTION
SCREEN RESOLUTION

Like Hopeful797 I too am an iPAQ3600/SS2 holdout and I am giving MS until mid 2004 to pay attention to their customers. For my needs, the Palm Tungsten T3 blows away every PPC on the market.

Shaun Stuart

10-01-2003, 08:28 PM

I wrote about the Palm innovation in another thread a couple of weeks ago but it did not get much attention.

I am a big Pocket PC fan - I am on my 4th device in 2 years basically because I just love the OS and the power and versatility of Pocket PCs.

One of the ciriticisims we all had of Palm (and a lot of the handheld publications) is their almost blinding arrogance that palm OS devices were better. I hated them for trashing superior devices like the early ipaqs just because they ran a Microsoft OS.

We are now 3 years on from the original Ipaqs and unfortunately I have noticed in the last year that many Pocket PC users have become like the old Palm mob - arrogant and short sighted. While we seem to have been blinded by the hype of Windows Mobile 2003 the real innovation has been created by others.

Yes WM2003 is better than Pocket PC 2002 but there has been no real innovation in the Pocket PC in last 12 months. We have new devices that are a little smaller and a little faster - but essentialy they all look like the same devices we had 2- 3 years ago.

If we were told 12 months ago that their would be a handheld device designed specifically for multimedia and gaming with a proper joystick and stereo speakers but with PIM features (Tapwaves Zodiac) , or a device with built in GPS (Garmin 3600), or a device with built in keyboard and 2megapixel camera (sony NZ90v), or maybe a landscape device with camera and keyboard (Sony-ux50) or a device with a 320x480 screen with on the fly rotation (T3) we would have probably put money on them being Pocket PC devices.

As you know all of these devices have a palm os - this is a giant leap for Palm considering where they were 12 months ago and for them to do this - credit should be given.

For the first time ever I am seriously contemplating a Palm handheld for my next device - but my love of the pocket pc means I want Microsoft and their partners to come up with something exciting to convince me to stay.

I just fear they will not act quickly enough.

we have to be honest I have noticed that in the last 12 months that

Ed Hansberry

10-01-2003, 08:30 PM

So basically, no one ever said "you don't need it" on this issue, so your comment makes no sense. Again, thanks for playing Scott. Better luck next time. :roll:Actually, it does, because "Palm" never said the things you continuously claim that they did, either. You see, it's just mythical quotes that you continuously recite every time you get a chance. "Palm said you didn't need this" and "Palm said you didn't need that," etc. And even if some particular person within Palm said it, who cares?
Because they did say it. No color, no voice recording, no storage cards, no large RAM (over 8MB) devices, no multimedia, etc. THey even said 2MB was plenty when the first Palmsized PCs were shipping with 4 and 8MB. Palm had press releases saying that the Palm was more efficient and users didn't need more RAM.
Further, you can't take quotes out of the context of the timeframe when they were said. Bill Gates said we only needed 640K.
No he didn't.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,1484,00.html

jnunn

10-01-2003, 08:38 PM

The battery life isn't the T3's biggest shortcoming to me though... it's that slider mechanism. IMHO, it only kinda-sorta made sense with the virtual grafitti area. With an actual screen underneath, I don't see its advantage at all.

The slider makes the T3 smaller in your pocket while still giving comfortable and stylish buttons; I think it works. I would prefer if PDA OEMs could limit the area of the PDA to the screen itself and use a slider for buttons/D-pad that look good. I mostly care about bulk when the PDA is in my pocket.

rapidnet_rick

10-01-2003, 08:48 PM

The fact that PPC Word loses almost all formatting could make me dump my 2210 in favor of a TT3.

Carel

Well, just buy SoftMaker's TextMaker program, works great, and for the documents I have used with, I have lost zero formatting!

Versions available for PPC2002, PPC2003, Windows Desktop, and Linux....

There was a special deal quite some time ago, desktop version for free, and then they had the PPC version on special for $29.95... Couldn't beat it! Work's great. I actually use the desktop version on my Home PC, so that I don't have to use word...... Can't wait to try their soon to be released spread sheet program.

--=Rick=--

Scott R

10-01-2003, 08:58 PM

Palm had press releases saying that the Palm was more efficient and users didn't need more RAM.Once again, you're taking things out of the context of time. My original Palm Pilot 5000 didn't need more RAM than it had at the time, because there weren't a huge number of applications available to fill it up with. With a 160x160 B&W screen, it wasn't capable of multimedia, which is another reason why people need expansion memory these days. Times have changed. PDAs are capable of playing MP3s and its easy to rip MP3s (or download them legally). Gone are the days when you had to be a "hacker" to go through this process. IMO, the process of converting videos for watching on PDAs is still in the "hacker" stage. If I have to spend more time converting a video to watch it on a PDA than it actually takes to watch it, and if it requires investing in a card that costs $100 or more, the technology hasn't really "arrived" yet. Someone has to continue to push the envelope as that day will arrive one day (in the example mentioned, probably sooner rather than later), but I could easily see someone proclaim that "Most people don't need that feature." And with today's technology, they'd be right. When people say such things, they're talking to mainstream consumers, who don't want to have to wrestle with the technology they use. PDAs were designed to make our lives easier, not for us to serve them.

Scott

Chris Spera

10-01-2003, 09:06 PM

I've heard a few people in this thread say that they don't like the way the |T 1-3 devices slide. Personally, I think its a great idea.

Open, my T|T is just about as long as my 5455. If it had a soft silk screen for Graffiti input (a larger viewing area over all instead of 320x320) it would be killer!

Closed, its small enough to tote anywhere. In fact, its smaller than (or as small as) my 1945.

I think what we're dancing around is a paradigm difference. The next few months are going to be interesting. I had heard that PalmOS 6 was due out some time in December. Hopefully, Palm will offer upgrades for T|T1-2 users and allow us some limited access to the benefits from the new OS.

We'll have to wait and see what happens.

Christopher Spera

Ed Hansberry

10-01-2003, 09:09 PM

Palm had press releases saying that the Palm was more efficient and users didn't need more RAM.Once again, you're taking things out of the context of time.
No I'm not. Simply because Sony, Handera and Handspring agreed with me. They all came out with their own devices that got around this issue. THis isn't a PalmOS issue. This is Palm Inc. again.

I was listenging to music in 2000 on my iPAQ and I wasn't a hacker. I put my CD in the laptop and WMP7 that came with Windows 2000/ME did the rest. Nothing to download, etc. The next year, Sony was all over music on the PDA with the 760 series and Palm followed up sometime in late 2002. Same thing with memory cards. MS OEMs were doing it in 1998. Handspring and Handera in 1999, Sony in 2000. Palm in 2001. Color, ditto. Large memory ditto. Palm Inc. has always been behind on non-PIM info. Oh, and congrats to T3 owners that get to have 2 addresses per contact. :alfdance:

Next thing you know, you can assign multiple contacts per item! That's like, something right out of Buck Rogers!

pdagal

10-01-2003, 09:11 PM

Deslock

10-01-2003, 09:16 PM

The battery life isn't the T3's biggest shortcoming to me though... it's that slider mechanism. IMHO, it only kinda-sorta made sense with the virtual grafitti area. With an actual screen underneath, I don't see its advantage at all.

The slider makes the T3 smaller in your pocket while still giving comfortable and stylish buttons; I think it works. I would prefer if PDA OEMs could limit the area of the PDA to the screen itself and use a slider for buttons/D-pad that look good. I mostly care about bulk when the PDA is in my pocket.
Since they can fit all the electronics into the T3 when closed, I'd rather they do a simple redesign. Get rid of the slider cover and use small hardware buttons and a rocker switch on the bottom front edge (kind of like the Clie NX series did, only make it a little more functional). That would save weight and would make the device only slightly longer than the closed T3. The downside would be that the buttons wouldn't be so great for action games. No big deal... those who play action games can just get the Zodiac. I doubt that would cut into T3 sales much.

PlayAgain?

10-01-2003, 09:45 PM

Next thing you know, you can assign multiple contacts per item! That's like, something right out of Buck Rogers!

I much prefer the Epoc/Symbian method of being able to create your own fields as and when you need them. That way, you're not forced to use a template that's full of fields you don't need and devoid of fields that you do. :evil:

SandersP

10-01-2003, 10:00 PM

Palm had press releases saying that the Palm was more efficient and users didn't need more RAM.Once again, you're taking things out of the context of time

Scott

...'context of time'? Is that even passed giggle test?

(you don't need it until the time when Palm can put out the feature perhaps? I am willing to bet, in regard to Toshiba e800, you will also say, you don't need VGA. It' not the time yet)

oh brother...

powder2000

10-01-2003, 10:46 PM

I just finished a review of the T3 for pdabuyersguide.com, and what really impressed me was the flawless switching between 320 x 320 and 320 x 480 (slider closed vs. slider opened), and from portrait to landscape modes.

The battery life, for a Palm brand PDA, isn't that good-- the original T and T2 models could last many users a few days on a charge. That probably won't be the case with the T3. Expectations are higher when it comes to battery life on Palm branded units, hence the negative comments you'll see in reviews. But for a powerful PDA with that size screen, the battery life is certainly decent.

This is exactly how I've seen palm battery estimates in the past. Why are they always saying a few days, rather than total hours? I could get a few days out of my ppc, but does this give you a good idea of its battery life? I'm so sick of this battery jargon, just give it in hours and stop beating around the bush.

Scott R

10-01-2003, 10:52 PM

THis isn't a PalmOS issue. This is Palm Inc. again.Well, that isn't what you imply when you talk about "Palm" saying this or that. So who at Palm, Inc. (now palmOne), who is now still working for palmOne, specifically said these things? Please provide direct quotes.

I was listenging to music in 2000 on my iPAQ and I wasn't a hacker. I put my CD in the laptop and WMP7 that came with Windows 2000/ME did the rest.I had an iPaq in 2000 as well. Still use it, in fact. Mine required a bulky sleeve to play MP3s.

Scott

Scott R

10-01-2003, 10:57 PM

Since they can fit all the electronics into the T3 when closed, I'd rather they do a simple redesign. Get rid of the slider cover and use small hardware buttons and a rocker switch on the bottom front edge (kind of like the Clie NX series did, only make it a little more functional). That would save weight and would make the device only slightly longer than the closed T3. The downside would be that the buttons wouldn't be so great for action games. No big deal... those who play action games can just get the Zodiac. I doubt that would cut into T3 sales much.I like to see a lot of variety in designs offered. But I, too, would like to see someone just have really thin buttons, or no buttons at all, and drop the D-pad altogether. Maybe put a scroll wheel on the side. Basically, the PDA would be all screen. IMO, these D-Pads that all of the manufacturers give us offer little value. Gaming is not comfortable on any of them, save for the Zodiac, so just give me a big screen and a flip-cover. That's just one design idea I like, though. I also like the idea of the Sony UX50, but there are too many flaws with it and I feel that it's overpriced.

Scott

Scott R

10-01-2003, 10:59 PM

This is exactly how I've seen palm battery estimates in the past. Why are they always saying a few days, rather than total hours? I could get a few days out of my ppc, but does this give you a good idea of its battery life? I'm so sick of this battery jargon, just give it in hours and stop beating around the bush.Well, I don't think anyone can give you one single number that would be of any value. The best they could do would be to give us the number of hours in a variety of scenarios, such as one hour estimate for screen off and non-stop MP3 playing, anoter for PIM usage only (no wireless), etc. I agree that the number of days estimate is all but useless.

Scott

Scott R

10-01-2003, 11:02 PM

I much prefer the Epoc/Symbian method of being able to create your own fields as and when you need them. That way, you're not forced to use a template that's full of fields you don't need and devoid of fields that you do. :evil:In a sense, that's sort of what palmOne has achieved here. They now have nine custom fields. And based on how I understood the user manual, it sounds like you only see all of the fields the first time you add a contact. The next time you go to edit a contact, you only see the fields that you entered values for and can then add a new field one at a time as needed.

Scott

PlayAgain?

10-01-2003, 11:49 PM

AhuhX

10-02-2003, 03:17 AM

Mine required a bulky sleeve to play MP3s.
Scott

Talk about being pathetic... this "discussion" just hit a new low...

Prevost

10-02-2003, 03:34 AM

I had my doubts on the horizontal screen, but after learning that you can write anywhere on the screen, I must say I'm believing.

PPC buddies, admit it: probably Palms are just getting now capabilities that you had from long ago, but they are getting them...while PPC are not getting more basic things that Palms have from the start, like Hotsync, OS stability, and high resolution displays. After years of using PPC, still there are users posting here they are sick of ActiveSync and claiming for higher resolutions, to the point of feeling envious of Palms.

And Palms are getting a more gadgety look, too!

Who will do this first: Palms swappable batteries, or PPC an ActiveSync one can count on?

BarryB

10-02-2003, 04:08 AM

<grandma snipped>

Man, I can almost feel the finger poking me in the nose. Very nice image.

pdagal

10-02-2003, 04:19 AM

That's mostly because with many Palm brand PDAs over the years, you really couldn't use it for enough hours to kill the battery in a day using PIM apps, Docs To Go, playing "old school" games and watch some short Kinoma movies. Sure you can do MP3 torture tests, but 1) until recently there were no MP3 players in Palm brand PDAs, 2) I'm not sure that represents an average usage pattern.

The T3 review unit I have will play MP3s continuously with screen set to 20% brightness for 3.5 hours. The Clie NX80V can do the same for 6.5 hours, and the Tungsten T made it nearly 8 hours.

This is exactly how I've seen palm battery estimates in the past. Why are they always saying a few days, rather than total hours? I could get a few days out of my ppc, but does this give you a good idea of its battery life? I'm so sick of this battery jargon, just give it in hours and stop beating around the bush.

Jason Dunn

10-02-2003, 06:17 AM

The T3 review unit I have will play MP3s continuously with screen set to 20% brightness for 3.5 hours.

Doesn't it have the ability to turn the screen off? Why would anyone play MP3s with the screen turned on? :D

(I'm staying out of the rest of this discussion because I have a Thought brewing...)

hopeful797

10-02-2003, 06:38 AM

isn't it sad, though, that this is one of the most active discussion forums and its not even about PPC. my boyfriend used to be jealous of my ipaq. now he's going to get a T|3. wherefore art thou ipaq?

AhuhX

10-02-2003, 06:47 AM

Doesn't it have the ability to turn the screen off? Why would anyone play MP3s with the screen turned on? :D

From the users reviews I've read there isn't much point. Even with screen off it goes for less than 5 hours of playback.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum...?TOPIC_ID=16978

"Interesting result playing MP3s... Using Aeroplayer with the screen switched off, in continuous play it went 4h42m before getting to the level where it switches off the card slot."

That's somewhat pathetic in this day and age considering the 2210 burns around 10% of its battery power per hour doing the same task. Obviously it will last for MUCH longer...

Kati Compton

10-02-2003, 06:49 AM

Doesn't it have the ability to turn the screen off? Why would anyone play MP3s with the screen turned on? :D

Well, with a PPC I play MP3's while I'm playing games on it, so the screen's on.

pdagal

10-02-2003, 06:53 AM

Yes it does. But I can't resist occasionally doing things like looking at the playlist, changing volume, skipping a song that I've gotten tired of or getting a phone number :-) So I leave it on.

Doesn't it have the ability to turn the screen off? Why would anyone play MP3s with the screen turned on? :D

(I'm staying out of the rest of this discussion because I have a Thought brewing...)

AhuhX

10-02-2003, 07:21 AM

..And just another review to confirm this thing has truly dismal battery life...

http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/06D2D645C71F250CCA256DB2001FD7AD

"...the T3 turned up its toes at the 2 hours 20 minute mark in our testing".

Ouch.

I hope the novelty of watching the screen spin around and stretch lasts longer than the uptime... ;)

I'm more expecting the E series to be the hit for Palm now. The price/value ratio on that unit is seemingly very impressive.

blusparkles

10-02-2003, 11:29 AM

Timothy Rapson

10-02-2003, 01:35 PM

I want a T3 badly, but they need to add another slot or a camera. Then they need a bigger removable battery. Finally, they need to lose the slider.

I want a HP 2215 badly, but they need to get HVGA and perhaps add a camera. (though I could buy the add-on and slip it in and out saving video to a card in the CF slot) SO, HP 2215 is hardware-wise closest to my ideal PDA. It needs on one change-HVGA.

I want a Sony UX50, but the screen must be bigger, the processor faster, the camera brought back up to 1 Megapixel. Or the Sony NX80 would do, but it is far too big.

What I really want and have wanted since the Handera 330 is a Handera with a nice color screen. Of course, the processor and memory now needs to be brought up to current. This is thte model I really have wanted for years. It is never going to be.

The OS is the biggest problem.

PPC OS? I love the PPC power, TextMaker, PocketArtist, and just about any $20+ program for the PPC is more powerful than the Palm equivalent (see former thread on this topic, and note that one significant program BugMe offers far more features in the Palm version, but seems to be the only one I could find that does so.) But, ActiveSync, resets, memory hogging, and that maddening swirly thing have to be fixed.

Palm OS? I love the new features for screen rotation, full 1-year calendar, end of the 4k limit, and native doc formats in the T3 implementation and soon in OS 6. I have mixed feelings about the multi-tasking deal. I think it must be part of the problem PPCs have with resets and swirly thingee. I like programs to be exactly where I left them (though this has failed on PPC too when the OS rudely shut down programs for me.) The Palm OS is just so much more responsive. But, the software is spotty. I have still not gotten a good stable version of BugMe to do truly hi-res notes.

Linux? I read a BrightHand review of the Zaurus C760 wherein he states that he used the Zaurus for weeks for the review and never once had to reset it. Now, I WANT THAT. But, of course, we may wait until we are old and gray for the software base to develop.

Symbian? Alas, they did it so perfectly with Epoc, but could not keep up and no longer make PDAs.

Ed Hansberry

10-02-2003, 01:36 PM

PJE

10-02-2003, 02:11 PM

Hi All,

The Gadgeteer has a fairly even handed review of the T3 at http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/tungsten-t3-review.html

There conclusions pretty much match mine:

* Slider is not very useful.
* Needs better battery
* Needs WiFi and more RAM to be perfect.

The screen and the rotation functions are tempting though... :wink:

Deslock

10-02-2003, 03:31 PM

The battery life isn't the T3's biggest shortcoming to me though... it's that slider mechanism. IMHO, it only kinda-sorta made sense with the virtual grafitti area. With an actual screen underneath, I don't see its advantage at all.

Still, I'm gonna try a T3 out before I dismiss it outright.
OK, I saw the T3 last night. One word comes to mind:

Wow

Forget what I wrote about the slider... it's actually quite cool. I never really liked the implementation on the T1/T2, but on the T3 it's better for a couple reasons:

- There is a menu-bar at the bottom of the screen even when closed (this was possible since slightly more than 320 pixels high is visible when closed)
- As others have reported, switching between the open and closed positions is seamless. You can set it up to power on when the lid is opened, saving a button-press. So, if you're just looking something up, you can take the T3 out and use it one-handed (ala buttons/d-pad) to retrieve the data. It's very fast this way. If you want to view images/movies, you take it out and simply slide it open.

Also, as others have reported, switching between landscape and portrait modes works flawlessly.

I bought the T3 on the spot. I'm gonna try it out for a couple weeks and decide if I want to keep it or not, but so far I'm mucho impressed with it. Everything is so fast... I forgot how responsive PalmOS is. And the screen... holy crap, it's awesome. Images are so much sharper. I can view 29 rows x 8 columns (at the default width) in landscape mode in the spreadsheet program (or 18 rows x 11 columns in portrait). Pocket Excel at 65% (the lowest that it's still readable) only lets me view 19 rows x 5 columns (again default width).

But I've grown accustomed to the feel of PocketPC, and I dunno if I want to switch back to PalmOS, despite some frustrations I have with PPC. And the T3's battery life may end up being inadequate.

Deslock

10-02-2003, 03:42 PM

On a slightly tangential note, I also played with the Tungsten E last night. This has the potential to be a huge hit.... I'm shocked at how much Palm is offering for only $199.

It's 4.6 ounces and is only slightly thicker than the old PalmV. This is easily the best buy out there right now for people who want a small, color, high-res, multimedia-capable handheld. I'm amazed at Palm's aggressive pricing.

AhuhX

10-02-2003, 03:59 PM

AhuhX

10-02-2003, 05:19 PM

That's pathetic. I was getting almost 8hrs with an iPAQ 3600 with pure MP3/WMA playing and the screen off.

*sigh* Ed, you just don't get it...

Less than 5 hours battery life playing MP3's with the screen off is not pathetic because this is really just a PDA, and playing MP3's therefore isn't really important unless it is to necessary to compare the feature set to PPC's in which case playing MP3's DOES become important... but not the fact it can't play them particularly well...

"When attempting to leave Real Player playing an mp3 file in the background, I experienced skips and jumpiness in the playback while accessing other applications."

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1644&showComments=true

...or for any particularly decent period of time.

"I could get 3 – 4 hours of use from one charge. That was without Bluetooth and the screen brightness turned down to 25%."

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/tungsten-t3-review.html

Now of course this also applies to video...

"I’m still not as impressed with Kinoma as I am Media Player on the Pocket PC. I don’t care for the fact that I have to convert the movie to a different format before being able to play it. Kinoma movies are still not as smooth as MPEG movies on a PPC."

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/tungsten-t3-review.html

... so you must always insist Kinoma plays back both smoother and with higher frame rates than any PPC.

Oh and per chance you are discussing word processing and spreadsheet applications, then of course you must only compare DocsToGo with the Pocket Office apps and forget about any alternatives such as Text Maker or Spread CE.

"Thiel: You didn't say anything about it but the new version of Documents to go creates native Word and Excel files. It's functionality far exceeds anything on the Pocket PC."

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/vbbs/showthread.php?threadid=512

There... got all that now? You'll need to because according to PDABuzz's hands on review and its' author Dave Johnson, co-author of How To Do Everything With Your Palm, this is "the best PDA I've ever used. Ever."

http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48217

and that's by no means biased... No siree! :)

Dr. Grabow

10-02-2003, 06:26 PM

I'm sitting here with the Tungsten T3 that I bought yesterday and have been using most of the the evening and night, and this morning, and alongside it is my Ipaq 2215 and my Ipaq 5550

I'm a Pocket PC fan. I'm not bashing them by any means. But I will say this. If the T3 had a replaceable battery, for me it would be game, set, match. Complete victory for Palm. This is such a superior PDA over the Ipaqs it isn't even close. The responsiveness, the screen quality, the case, the smoothness of the PIM apps - they just have done it right. Note that I said a superior PDA - it might not be a superior laptop replacement, or GPS front-end, or multitasking multimedia device, but it is definitely for me a superior PDA in the original spirit of the term.

Battery life seems fine to me, but I keep the backlight on low settings on all my PDAs.

Did I mention the screen? Stunning. The T3 is now my daily PDA.

Fishie

10-02-2003, 06:29 PM

guinness

10-02-2003, 06:47 PM

I still have an inkling that the T|E and T|3 will smoke PPC's over the holidays, I don't think the avg. consumer cares as much about the OS, if you put a T|3 next to a 2210, and showed the same pic on each machine or showed some of the different functions, T|3 would probably come out on top easily, same specs, BT, T|3 has bad battery life, and the 2210 a CF slot. Meanwhile, MS has let any HW advantage they've had slip through their fingers.

The T|E looks pretty good as well, a good replacement for the 515, Vx, etc. and reasonably priced to go head-to-head with the iPaq 1935 and maybe the basic Axim. The slower processor shouldn't affect it too bad, since the 1940/1935 use the Samsung chip and they hold their own against the X-Scales.

And then there is the Zodiac, is it a game machine or a PDA, but it's also is competitively priced.

jnunn

10-02-2003, 07:34 PM

This thread is wonderful. Since Palm is now "smoking" the PPC with its HVGA screen, I truly believe that MS will introduce a VGA screen next year to reclaim the hardware specs. The ghost of Adam Smith is smiling upon us.

MS may be the screen resolution laggard today but I am willing to wait one year to see what MS can do.

lapchinj

10-02-2003, 07:44 PM

... For my needs, the Palm Tungsten T3 blows away every PPC on the market.

Even though I would also love to get the T3, having a T3 still doesn't compensate for the great apps that we have on the PPC platform and are lacking for the Palm platform. Can these apps be replaced option for option? I don't think so. But now maybe with Palm platform having quality products like the T3 and Palm's OS6 maybe more developers will do cross platform work.

True this is blasphemy on my part but then again Microsoft only believes in Microsoft and doesn't believe in cross platform anything. :wink:

Jeff -

Pocket PC Dubai

10-02-2003, 08:07 PM

I've never bought a Palm based device, and this is the first time I've ever looked at a Palm based device and though "Hmmmm, I'd like one of those".

Me too! This time I will consider this one, but still the battery performance is one of the main reasons why I buy PDA’s, I am glad that HP is planning to increase the battery capacities on their upcoming models. I’d rather wait and watch how MS Pocket PCs will act in response to the T3.

pdagal

10-02-2003, 08:58 PM

I cetainly hope so. Though the fact that you could get Sony Clie NX models with 320 x 480 screens for 2 years now hasn't seemed to motivated them enough.

It will be interesting to see the Toshiba 805e!

This thread is wonderful. Since Palm is now "smoking" the PPC with its HVGA screen, I truly believe that MS will introduce a VGA screen next year to reclaim the hardware specs. The ghost of Adam Smith is smiling upon us.

MS may be the screen resolution laggard today but I am willing to wait one year to see what MS can do.

Kati Compton

10-02-2003, 09:10 PM

Okay. Apparently I'm too worn out to moderate this thread properly. I think a :nonono: is needed here. Maybe with a couple of :twak:s thrown in to boot. :razzing:

Arguing Palm vs. PPC is futile. :robot: There are aspects of each that appeal to a lot of people.

Please try to discuss the device without continuing the "war". It's one thing to say "This feature is awesome!" Or "this feature is missing!", but this thread has progressed well beyond that point.

10-02-2003, 09:23 PM

The T3 is certainly a very nice device, but with OS6 due to be ready in just a few months, who wants to go through the "hoping for an upgrade" period again.

I think that the new OS combined with the exciting new hardware that pa1mOne is churning out will make things very interesting. I could see my going back to Palm, but I've bought a lot of software over the last six months and I really love my 1GB CF card.

Personally I'm inclined to wait a while longer and see what happens in the new year. As someone already mentioned in the thread, pa1mOne look to be in good shape for getting new users over the holiday shopping period.

Pocket PC Dubai

10-02-2003, 09:41 PM

The new Pocket PC Phone Edition devices could divert many customers from buying the T3, there are many people eagerly wish for high-end converged devices, and now Dell, HP and XDA developed devices in this category, it is just a matter of time for thier release. T3 should have the phone feature as well to be the most desirable PDA in the market. IMO I still believe in convergence.

blusparkles

10-02-2003, 10:30 PM

I love this thread.

Just a few observations now.
Zire21: Overkill, the processor and power are wasted on the machine, 8mb and no memory slot in a machine of that power(even disregarding the screen) is just stupid, and despite the fact that you cant expand the memory in any way PalmOne is trying to sell docs to go and realplayer to prospective buyers.
TE, same processor as the one in the Zire21 wich makes it overal slower and weak in the juice department, would be an awesome machine if not for the slower procesor(ofset by the OS a bit but still too slow for real multimedia aplications) and the small screen real estate.

Yes, I had the exact same sentiments. Zire 21 - no backlight, monochrome screen, piezo-electric speaker .. what on earth is it doing with a 126MHz processor? The only time you'd need such power is for playing games or other multimedia programs, and yet you wouldn't with the zire 21 because it's not built for such applications. Plus, the faster processor appears to have cut down on the battery life significantly, which I assume would have been the original appeal of this device in the first place (that and the price). Just looking at the battery tests that InfoSyncWorld did for the Zire and Zire 21 - using the same test, they got 13+ hours out of the Zire and only 7 hours out of the Zire 21. 8O

Then there's the Tungsten E. Brilliant 320 x 320 transreflective screen, capable of video and MP3 playback, and yet has the same processor and battery of the Zire 21. Additionally, even though the E and the 21 both use the same mini-USB connector for HotSyncing, only the Zire 21 can sync and charge from the cable at the same time - for some reason they didnt' enable this in the E, even using the 21's cable.

Finally, I wish that palmOne had seen fit to put a bigger battery on the Tungsten T3. On my battery tests, even the Tungsten E pulled out better, by a whole hour. You can have the biggest screen in the world but if you need to be running to a power socket to charge the thing up every 2 hours, then it's not very portable, sliding design notwithstanding.

That being said, kudos to palmOne for their aggressive pricing :D Can only benefit us Pocket PC users when the PPC OEMs try to one up them.

lapchinj

10-02-2003, 11:30 PM

Arguing Palm vs. PPC is futile...

Your absolutely right there is no sense arguing - PPC Rules! Palm ... OK! OK! I won't do that to you but I had to say something, it was so tempting. :wink:

Anyway, I've been doing work with the Sharp SL5000 series PDA's and at first I thought that slide that covered the thumb board was cool. I had some (not too much) problems with it coming off the track when it wasn't handled correctly and I would always be conscious of possible problems when it was opened. It still is a good way of making the best possible use of the available real estate.

The T3 also has a slider that covers a portion of the screen. It seems that there would be a lot more trouble with this since it is being constantly opened and closed. At least with the Sharp a person didn’t always use or need the thumb board so there wasn’t that much wear and tear or chance of mishandling.

I would imagine that the best design is the one with the least moving parts. Even my iPAQ 3755 had problems with the stylus lock.

Jeff -

Kati Compton

10-03-2003, 03:34 AM

Okay - a bunch of posts have been moved to the Hall of Flame and Shame. Please don't make me do this again. It's giving me a headache.

Keep it calm.

Deslock

10-03-2003, 04:22 AM

Not that it matters much, but I noticed something curious today:

The T3 screen actually has more than 320x480 pixels.

There is a white 2-pixel-wide border around everything; I brought screenshots into a graphics program and confirmed that they're 320 wide without the border. I wonder why Palm did that...

Kati Compton

10-03-2003, 04:26 AM

The T3 screen actually has more than 320x480 pixels.

There is a white 2-pixel-wide border around everything; I brought screenshots into a graphics program and confirmed that they're 320 wide without the border. I wonder why Palm did that...
So they can say "Now with 2% more pixels!"...? ;)

lapchinj

10-03-2003, 03:07 PM

… still the battery performance is one of the main reasons why I buy PDA’s…

I’ve always depended on 3rd party accessories. I’ve had iPAQ’s now for a couple of years and always had them in some sort of sleeve. My latest is a 3850 with a Memplug 2 CF cards slots. I have a Viewsonic V37 but don’t use it so much (only development) since there are not really any accessories for it. My iPAQ packs (no pun intended) 2-256 meg CF cards and a 256 meg SD card and a mess of apps. :ppclove:

As far as batteries are concerned an outlet or a 12v power supply is not far away so poor battery life shouldn’t deter you from buying one. I even have a battery that clips to my belt just like the professional photogs use and with that I can go for days if need be (backpacking). Yeah I know the PDA becomes bulky but the advantages of having a PDA outweigh the cons of not using them.

The T3 should get a lot of people thinking about a new era of PDA’s. For developers it should be great I’ll look forward to developing apps for the T3. My company has deployed hundreds of Palms (they didn’t ask me before hand) and it was always pain to do development on them. For some one spoiled with the PPC going from PPC to Palm always felt like going from Windows to Dos. Now I might even break down and take a company Palm – only a T3. Since I’m a developer I’ll of course I must have the latest and greatest. :wink:

Jeff -

Janak Parekh

10-03-2003, 04:23 PM

I bought the T3 on the spot. I'm gonna try it out for a couple weeks and decide if I want to keep it or not, but so far I'm mucho impressed with it.
Let us know how the battery fares. :) Is it better or worse than your 1910?

--janak

Ed@Brighthand

10-03-2003, 09:16 PM

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Hands_On_The_Palm_Tungsten_T3

<snip>

• This quote was odd. "I've found that I get about three hours of use out of each charge. That's enough for one day's use for me, but I have to remember to recharge it every night." In this article from 2001 (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Does_size_really_matter) the battery life of the original iPAQ 3600 is criticized, which on a bad day had 6 hours of life. Other articles and threads contain similar criticisms of the battery lives of various Pocket PCs over the years compared to Palm counterparts. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the diminutive Audiovox Maestro had under 4 hours of battery life. I guess bad battery life is in the eye of the beholder, and then it depends on which device they 'beholding. :wink:
Ed, you seem to have skipped over the paragraph before that, where I said "While the Tungsten T3 is an outstanding handheld in many ways, its battery life is below average. " And later I said it was "sub-par".

Brighthand gives Sony kids glove treatment on their review. All Sony devices never get bashed about weak battery despite being shorter than PPC.

Here's a quote from my recent Sony UX50 review:
"There's just no other way to say it: the UX50's battery life is a disappointment. "

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Sony_UX50_Review

Here's a review I did of the HP h1940:
http://www.brighthand.com/article/HP_iPAQ_h1940_Review

Please point out any Pocket PC bashing in it.

drac

10-04-2003, 12:38 AM

And I in particular would like to see those quotes where Palm bashed colour screens.

Mind you, I got utterly frustrated with Palm during the "dark years".

Still, though, I'd like to make sure they aren't being misquoted.

lapchinj

10-08-2003, 02:14 AM

...Linux? I read a BrightHand review of the Zaurus C760 wherein he states that he used the Zaurus for weeks for the review and never once had to reset it...

I have a Sharp SL5000 series PDA and while it's a solid OS just like the Linux desktop there is still not an overwhelming selection of apps. True mine has both a CF and SD slot while the iPAQ has only a SD (pitiful). I added a Memplug dbl. CF card slot sleeve and it's the best PDA I've ever owned.

But apps produced by the manufacturers are not enough. If a platform is to be successful then you have to have 3rd party software being written. Those are the people where you get the apps like PI, AF and Sprite Backup/Clone. I think that the PPC is still #1 in that regard and will be hard to beat even with PDA like the T3. But the Sharp is great if you're into hacking the PDA and writing bash scripts. Oh yeah, I can't remember exactly when I reset my Sharp last but I know that it wasn't in 2003. But then again I don't exactly remember when I reset my iPAQ either. I do know it wasn't today (yet) but it was definitely this week. :wink:

Here's a review I did of the HP h1940:
http://www.brighthand.com/article/HP_iPAQ_h1940_Review

Please point out any Pocket PC bashing in it.

This was a nice review (my 2c) I don't think anyone could complain, I don't see any bashing there. Anyway, I haven't read all of Ed's reviews but I never thought he was taking sides in the ones that I have read.

I prefer to write code for the PPC since with .NET and Visual Studio .NET it makes writing a pleasure (C#, VB.NET and of course Java). I would love to tackle the T3. And if the T3 is as nice as I hear I'm willing to pluck down a few bills and take a chance to see if my company will let me write for it (and hopefully pay for it also).

This is where I think that reviews like Ed's come in handy. If someone thinks his reviews are bashing then that's OK (at least with me) but I find that when I see a product that interests me I read all the reviews possible - even from a basher. But more important is that we have to be able to read around the parts we don't agree with.

Besides this was a good thread on the T3 not a thread on review bashing so what happened to it? It sort of just dropped dead. It would be a shame if it can't be revived.

Jeff -

lapchinj

10-10-2003, 03:05 AM

Hellllllllllooooooooooooooooo, Anyone there?

I guess not. :idontthinkso: Since I'm the last one here I'll shut off the lights.

Jeff -

CLICK :sleeping:

Gakusei

10-10-2003, 11:59 PM

Well, since my PC hard drive crashed and I forgot to charge my Toshiba e310, I lost all of my phone numbers, appointments, to-do's, grades, etc. It's partially my fault for not backing up/charging, but it's also part Microsoft's for having a secret program that targets Mac users. :mecry:

I switched back to the Palm so I could use it with my PowerBook 12", and decided on the T3. I'd honestly have to say that the Palm OS has come a long way and is much more intuitive (to me). The T3 is amazing, I've never seen a screen so sharp before, and I'm able to use the Bluetooth to sync and download Avantgo content (also browse the web). The battery life, as far as I can tell, is incredible. I don't know why people have been so down on it, I've used it for 45 minutes before with it just dropping down to 95% life (with bluetooth off and screen brightness at 25%, which is still a lot brighter than my e310 was).

I can't really do a full review, because I haven't had it for more than a couple weeks now, and I'm not really qualified. I like it, though, and I think people who might be thinking of going to (or going back to) Palm should give it a look.

Oh, and I like the slider, it makes it more compact in my pocket and less akward to hold in one handed operation. :)

lapchinj

10-13-2003, 03:26 AM

I finally saw my son's T3 (but he does own an iPAQ so he's still got a shot at inheritance) and I must admit it is very nice. The slide is solid much better than the Sharp SL5xxx series. The screen is a killer - I love the way you can change the orientation of the screen. Now that's really cool.

The one BIG complaint I have is not really with the T3 but with whoever designed the case that comes with it - those guys should all be shot. The whole top is open so there's no protection at all if it falls or gets bumped around. It's not that it's open but it sticks out like an eraser on a pencil (just looking for trouble). And it is only secured into the case by two hooks and a spring. While I was fooling around with it the T3 released from the hooks (while the case was closed) when I opened it the T3 just fell out (I caught it, Whew). If the securing hooks are not engaged it can just slide out the end of the case also. Very poor design. Before I gave it back to him I put Velcro on it and the case. That should hold him over until he gets a case that works.

Even though it’s cool I still don’t think that it’s a replacement for my iPAQ. I think that it’s superior to my Sharp SL5000 but the Palm OS can’t beat Linux and they still don’t have the apps – either of them. Now if you could take my iPAQ with the apps and Memplug dbl CF slot sleeve, run the Linux OS, add to that the T3 screen and the Sharp thumb pad then I might consider switching away from my iPAQ. That's what I call really COOL. 8) 8) 8)

Jeff -

Phronetix

12-04-2003, 07:28 PM

Jeff wrote:
Even though it’s cool I still don’t think that it’s a replacement for my iPAQ. I think that it’s superior to my Sharp SL5000 but the Palm OS can’t beat Linux and they still don’t have the apps – either of them.

Which apps? Palm OS has a fairly complete set of apps out there.

Unreal32

12-05-2003, 07:32 PM

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Hands_On_The_Palm_Tungsten_T3

In this article from 2001 (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Does_size_really_matter) the battery life of the original iPAQ 3600 is criticized, which on a bad day had 6 hours of life. Other articles and threads contain similar criticisms of the battery lives of various Pocket PCs over the years compared to Palm counterparts. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the diminutive Audiovox Maestro had under 4 hours of battery life. I guess bad battery life is in the eye of the beholder, and then it depends on which device they 'beholding. :wink:

It might, but the iPaq 3600 would also often lose its data after a day or two of non-use, due to its battery drain being an ongoing thing. I've left my palm for an extended weekend, in a freezing car, with a 20% charge. When I turned it on after the hunting trip was over 5 days later... guess what? 20% charge still.

Ed Hansberry

12-05-2003, 09:48 PM

It might, but the iPaq 3600 would also often lose its data after a day or two of non-use, due to its battery drain being an ongoing thing.
This is simply not true unless your device is defective. My 3600 up until about 4 months ago was holding a charge for 7 days minimum of non-use. REcently, it is down to 5 days but the battery and unit date back to 2000, so I suspect she is just about dead. I used to charge it every week to keep the battery and data alive for testing purposes and that is how I know it would last at least 7 days. Now, I have to do it every 5 days and have really given up on fooling with it. Any more testing and I'll just use it while plugged in.

shawnc

12-05-2003, 10:08 PM

lapchinj

12-07-2003, 04:49 AM

Which apps? Palm OS has a fairly complete set of apps out there.
Yeah you could say that they do have a complete set but then comparatively the PPC side is drowning in complete sets – IMHO. I didn’t do any research but just browsing Handango gives one a good idea what’s out there.

DateBook which is full featured and known as “mother of all PIMs” (I personally think that it’s in second or third place) doesn’t give me that slick feel that PI or AF does. DateBook should have been unbeatable with all the features it has but Palm and the Palm OS has stymied the development and proliferation of apps such as DateBook not the developers - but again that’s my opinion. Maybe the T3 will change that a little but until Palm comes up with a better OS a change in hardware will not bring in more developers.

As far as Linux goes there is no question that Palm has them beat as far as apps go but the Linux OS is still far better. (But then what is a fantastic OS without apps.)

Jeff - (Try Linux on an iPAQ it's a blast :way to go:)

Ed Hansberry

12-07-2003, 05:17 AM

Not impressed. Seems none of the PIM apps were updated to take advantage of the long screen. You just get an on-screen qwerty keyboard. Whooope! :?

lapchinj

12-07-2003, 05:34 AM

Not impressed. Seems none of the PIM apps were updated to take advantage of the long screen. You just get an on-screen qwerty keyboard. Whooope! :?

That's why I think that it's Palm that's holding up the show not the developers. I don't get the impression that it's a small thing to get the apps to display full screen on the T3. It smells from having to support two sets of code :roll:.

Jeff -

Ed Hansberry

12-07-2003, 02:52 PM

That's why I think that it's Palm that's holding up the show not the developers. I don't get the impression that it's a small thing to get the apps to display full screen on the T3. It smells from having to support two sets of code :roll:.

Two? Just two? I don't think so. Check out this quote from http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6288
To be fair, we should note that pretty much every Palm OS developer is really angry about the state of compatability -- sure, the core OS is usually the same on every device, but that by no means makes it easy to port any half way involved application. At least PalmSource is awar of the situation and striving to stop it (whew!).

Sony uses a proprietary sound API (until very recently) (so not only do we have to check if its a Sony or not, we have to check the versions to know which API to use..)

Sony uses a proprietary highres API (since they came to game first)

Handera uses proprietary highres

Dana uses proprietary highres

Handspring (Treo) uses proprietary 5-way API

Even Garmin and T|T3 which uses the PalmSource modern screen APIs do things a little differently...

PalmOne uses proprietary 5-way API

Sony uses proprietary jogdial API

Handera uses proprietary jogdial API

... etc etc ...

(Zodiac is exempted, since it deliberately goes out of bounds for good reasons)

So when we build an application, we're bombarded with requests to support this or that, and its custom work every time. My apps all have support for a half dozen jog dials and 5-ways, 4 or 5 different screen layout systems, multiple sound systems.. I get my main app latest revision out, and not days later find out the Treo 600 uses a custom 5-way API, so more work to go. Palm OS is immensely expensive to support.
That is insane. Nagel was way understating things when he said things were a "little" chaotic in the short run.

lapchinj

12-07-2003, 03:45 PM

Two? Just two? I don't think so... Maybe I should have said “It STINKS from having to support multiple sets of code”. :jester:

Wow! I didn't think it was that bad. I really haven't kept up with their OS and I'm glad I got away from the Palm platform a couple of years ago. I was trying to do some java stuff and I thought it was kind of hopeless trying to develop for it at the time. I'm glad I didn't wait around. Besides I really got hooked on the PPC in the mean time and sort of forgot all about the Palm.

This sort of stuff reminds me of the PC platform in the very early 90’s when everyone would be doing their own thing like writing to video memory at wherever address the manufacturer felt like putting it – no central standard/API. At that time we had to write to the hardware more often than not and that’s what it looks like is happening on the Palm platform today. Today on “almost” any platform you can abstract out any piece of hardware you want.

But looking on the bright side “practice makes perfect”. I remember having to write the same hardware routines over and over for different PC manufacturers. I had work up the yang and enjoyed every minute of it ( :shocked!: stressed out though :shocked!: ) but alas my employer was not a happy camper. It does not seem like the Palm platform has advance very far from those days either and I for one would like to just remember them as good memories – not to be replayed.

Jeff -

Linux_Zen

01-01-2004, 11:59 PM

I can't post threads in the COMPETITION thing, but maybe I can raise some flags!

http://www.officedepot.com/txtSearchDD.do?searchTxt=tungsten+t3&x=0&y=0

Look over that way. The T|T3 is a mere -- $200 -- at Office Depot. Maybe it's an error, maybe not. I was browsing PIC just as the news broke:

http://palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19744

Just sayin'.

lapchinj

01-02-2004, 02:39 AM

...The T|T3 is a mere -- $200 -- at Office Depot.

If that's true I'm sure it will generate a lot of new T3 owners. The world is not full of geeks but rather full of people looking for a good deal and product. It's a shame those types don't have the taste buds to appreciate a good PPC.

Jeff -

Linux_Zen

01-02-2004, 02:44 AM

As I've said, I'm not a troll--but tell me why any PPC at $200 is better than the T|T3 at the same price?

Janak Parekh

01-02-2004, 03:25 AM

As I've said, I'm not a troll--but tell me why any PPC at $200 is better than the T|T3 at the same price?
Depends on what you want to do. The T3 doesn't have WiFi capability (yet), no multitasking, limited expandability, limited filesystem, only 15 categories, etc. Most of these stem from the PalmOS design.

From a hardware standpoint, though, it's a steal at $199. I'm pretty sure it's a typo, but it's a darn tempting one if PalmOS meets your needs. ;)

--janak

Linux_Zen

01-02-2004, 04:08 AM

It's definitely a typo (they have the Tungsten|E listed at $400 instead of $200) but maybe I can get it for that price anyway? It's still uncorrected and I have a printed version just in case that can sway them (?)--do you think they'd let me take it for that much? With other stores (allbeit with lower-scale ~$5 products) they let ya buy products for the listed price rather than the should-be-price.

Wait--this happened at Office Depot! It was with a set of ball-point pens sure, but maybe it's policy?

Yes, I think that, despite the limitations of Palm OS, I will be able to pull thru. HVGA is also appealing 8) .

lapchinj

01-02-2004, 04:12 AM

As I've said, I'm not a troll--but tell me why any PPC at $200 is better than the T|T3 at the same price?

I don't know if I want to get into rehashing that type of discussion point by point. But it's like Janak mentioned it just depends on what you want to do with a PDA. My boss has a Palm V and he wouldn't go anywhere without it and he wouldn't switch either. But then the only thing he wants is his Datebook4. He'd forget his pants before he forgot his Palm. IMHO I think you get more bang for the buck taking the PPC over the Palm even when the price is the same.

Jeff -

Linux_Zen

01-02-2004, 04:39 AM

Just was reading over at PIC--caught this edit of "Palm Cow" fresh:

I won't be able to jet over to Office Depot tonight, but I'll try tomorrow!

Dang it ... the error is not obvious.

As of now, http://www.officedepot.com/txtSearchDD2.do?navType=navText&level=CT&id=3601 mixes up the T3 and E "Our Price"'s. But I can still try!

2nd Edit--at 10:26 Eastern the T3 price at Office Depot.com flashed up to $598.98 for a moment, with "Low Availability," then ... uhh ... it stayed at that for at least 10 mins--after 10 minutes of constant refreshing I gave up. Sufficed to say, sales are going to go back down tonight, at 99.99 more than 399.99. No ... 199.99 more. It seems that they added 399.99 to the 199.99 that was there before. Ah well.

Chess or Chyes
Palm Cow loves it.
CHYES! [email protected]

Edited by - Palm Cow on 01/01/2004 7:13:49 PM

Edited by - Palm Cow on 01/01/2004 10:42:52 PM

So I wonder if still, they would let me cash in my beautiful print-out for a major discount ... I'll find out tomorrow!

Linux_Zen

01-03-2004, 02:23 AM

Didn't work out. If my dad hadn't been working last night maybe it would have but--alas. They had corrected the site and the people at Office Depot wouldn't sell it to me at that price.

So, I took a trip to Circuit City and told them the whole truth (including being denied it being sold to me!) and they wouldn't price-match (duh! I was just checking).

Ahh well it looks like Palm OS devices with the specs I want are a bit out of range for now. But that screen sure is gorgeous ...

sracer

01-03-2004, 03:26 AM

As I've said, I'm not a troll--but tell me why any PPC at $200 is better than the T|T3 at the same price?

It depends upon your needs. If you need a personal information manager, then a Palm device edges out the PPC. However for multimedia, expandability, and all-out usefulness I'll take my iPAQ 2215 over any Palm device. But that is based on what I use a PDA for.

Another thing I dislike about Palm devices is the hard input area. It's a waste of space IMO and makes using add-on input software less useful.

Janak Parekh

01-03-2004, 04:14 AM

Another thing I dislike about Palm devices is the hard input area. It's a waste of space IMO and makes using add-on input software less useful.
The T3, though, is one of a few Palms that does not have this problem -- it has soft Graffiti 2.

--janak

Linux_Zen

01-03-2004, 05:58 AM

Don't bash the "average" Palm OS device and apply your steriotypes to it--I was specifically talking about the T|T3 which doesn't ... well, it doesn't have an CF slot, but ...

It depends upon your needs. If you need a personal information manager, then a Palm device edges out the PPC. However for multimedia, expandability, and all-out usefulness I'll take my iPAQ 2215 over any Palm device. But that is based on what I use a PDA for.

The T3 has excelent multimedia capabilities (and twice the resolution of any PPC save the e80X)--and although it doesn't have a CF slot ... at $200, itsn't that a good deal? Of course they wouldn't sell it to me for that (see previous post) ...

Another thing I dislike about Palm devices is the hard input area. It's a waste of space IMO and makes using add-on input software less useful.

UGH! Man, don't do stereotypes!

http://palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-t3/photos/images/04.jpg

Note the double-your resolution! And the no-soft-reset-works-with-almost-all-its-PIM-apps Landscape too!

So don't stereotype! People or PDAs or anything!

There I'm done.

Janak Parekh

01-03-2004, 07:16 AM

The T3 has excelent multimedia capabilities (and twice the resolution of any PPC save the e80X)--and although it doesn't have a CF slot ... at $200, itsn't that a good deal? Of course they wouldn't sell it to me for that (see previous post) ...
And, as per your last post, let's not compare it as a $200 device, which it isn't. As for multimedia, the Pocket PC OS still has better support, with (streaming!) .WMV and DivX, among others. I don't think either is available on Palm.

UGH! Man, don't do stereotypes!
I already pointed this out... ;)

--janak

Linux_Zen

01-03-2004, 07:48 AM

True ... it isn't a $200 device, but the guy made the post with that "knowledge" (incorrect as it mat have been) ... anyway ... back to hunting!

I am on PalmOS right now where 32MB is quite a lot, and 300MHz is a ton but ... how much is it, really on PPC? Is it enough for student use?

Janak Parekh

01-03-2004, 07:55 AM

I am on PalmOS right now where 32MB is quite a lot, and 300MHz is a ton but ... how much is it, really on PPC? Is it enough for student use?
32MB is adequate, but 64MB is preferable on Pocket PC. 300MHz is OK... although the type of processor matters as much as the speed, so the Samsung 266MHz in the 1940 is comparable in performance to 400MHz XScales.

--janak

mangochutneyman

01-05-2004, 04:09 AM

And, as per your last post, let's not compare it as a $200 device, which it isn't. As for multimedia, the Pocket PC OS still has better support, with (streaming!) .WMV and DivX, among others. I don't think either is available on Palm.
--janak

Actually, you can get the T3 for $339 right now at Best Buy. It's apparently been discounted in anticipation of the release of the "T4". As far WMV, it's true there is no PalmOS support, but that's mainly due to high lisencing structure MS charges for non-windows platforms (somthing like $10,000) which makes it economically unfeasible for most third party devs. MMplayer supports DivX, Mpeg etc and you can stream via proprietary formats like Kinoma and Fireviewer. Not the best solution, but something...