iPAQ 4350?

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/preview_hp_4350.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/preview_hp_4350.asp</a><br /><br /></div>Pocket PC Italia has specs and a diagram of what might be a new iPAQ. Obviously, we have no confirmation -- but it certainly looks interesting!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20030916-iPAQ4350.gif" /><br /><br />The other specs seem fairly similar to the 2215, except that the unit is rumored to have both WiFi and Bluetooth, and a much larger battery (1560mAh, larger than any other previous iPAQ). And finally, is it me, or does this diagram look a little like the Treo 600?

[mscdex]

Looks spiffy, but I was never a fan of typing on a "thumb board." Guess I'm just too used to a normal keyboard setting ;)

[codesmith]

I too thought I could never really "get into" a thumbboard....until I tried out a sidekick for a few weeks. Man, once you got the feel for the keyboard, typing fairly long emails, posts and IM sessions was much easier. Still, I dont mind having only a SIP, keeps the size of the device down.

[David Prahl]

http://images.usatoday.com/life/cyber/_photos/sharp-zaurus-story-photo.jpg

:wink:

[HOLLYWOOD_]

It would need CDMA or GPRS as well to truely be a "Blackberry Killer."

[royisher]

Looks awesome :D

[bdegroodt]

:grouphug: Let us pray!

[egoz]

Does it look like the Treo? Sure, not that the Treo's keyboard location and design is anything but obvious. So, i'm not sure the iPaq design team is really stealing much in terms of design-ideas.

Anyway, nothin' like stealing a good idea. That's progress.

And, this unit (with a built in keyboard) will well be the most popular iPaq sold, when it/if is released. Just one more step closer to burying the Palm-esque species to the depths that they belong.

.rob adams

[PJE]

Hi,

Why do all PocketPCs with a keyboard need to be so long?

Here's what I'd like to see...

http://www.wwnet.net/~peter.elliot/ipaq.gif

Thoughts...

[HOLLYWOOD_]

Why do all PocketPCs with a keyboard need to be so long?

Here's what I'd like to see...


Amen PJE. My thoughts exactly. Size matters!

[apeguero]

They should at least switch the TAB Key with the Shift key. It doesn't make sense why they would switch it around like that only to keep the Caps Lock near it's original position.

[SandersP]

This is is so ugly it's hideous.

Note to designer: how about clamshell? That thing is too long.

[Jason Dunn]

Why do all PocketPCs with a keyboard need to be so long?Z

Because the aspect ratio of the screen isn't the same as that of a Palm - Palm has it easy with a square screen, whereas Pocket PCs have to contend with a portrait (tall) screen. I too would like to see something closer to your design, but it might not be possible to cram it all in without that extra height.

[bjornkeizers]

Looks like a Tungsten C if you ask me.

I've never been a fan of PDA's with keyboards. Too damn bulky if you ask me, and you can't properly type on one. At least a Psion Revo has an OK keyboard, but those damn thumb type things... Nah, I prefer screen space over keys any time.

[bdegroodt]

I've never been a fan of PDA's with keyboards. Too damn bulky if you ask me, and you can't properly type on one. At least a Psion Revo has an OK keyboard, but those damn thumb type things... Nah, I prefer screen space over keys any time.

This amazes me as an open topic still. It seems so divisive as a feature. Personally, I gave up my PPC for another BB. Reason, always on email and keyboard were paramount to my productivity. I'd come back in a heartbeat if HP would get a BB like device out the door. The keyboard is an excellent first step in my humble opinion.

[Jason Dunn]

This is is so ugly it's hideous.

It's also a line drawing with no real detail to speak of - it looks like it was drawn on an Etch-a-Sketch.

I remember everyone saying the 1910 was ugly when the first low-res mock-up of it leaked, and now everyone raves about the awesome design.

So just wait and see, shall we? :-)

[Myrddin]

Looks great 8O

I don't think i'd like it though, never been a fan of thumboards and apart from that it has everything my H5455 has! I dearly love my 5455 ;)

[mace]

It look OK to me, but I was hoping for a clamshell design. 0X

[Janak Parekh]

Does it look like the Treo? Sure, not that the Treo's keyboard location and design is anything but obvious. So, i'm not sure the iPaq design team is really stealing much in terms of design-ideas.
I didn't say they were stealing the idea. I just found the location of the d-pad with respect to the keyboard similar to the Treo 600. Time will tell how useable this particular setup is (compared to the C, W, and Zaurus, which have the d-pad below the keyboard).

--janak

[SandersP]

Size:

138.7 x 74.6 x 14.5 mm (h4350)
138 x 84 x 15.9mm (h5550)

This thing is as long as h5550, and uses 3.5 inch screen. The bottom area is almost as long as the screen. This gadget might as well be a handheld calculator with such proportions and buttons.

...eeck!

[manywhere]

I suppose that HP will not be able to make international-keyboard-versions of that iPaq. :roll: Additionally, there is no room for my Swedish/Finnish letters! :|

My previous Philips Velo did have the letters 'å', 'ä', and 'ö' crammed in, but using them required also pressing an 'Alt Gr' key to get them; which wasn't ideal. Here's how my desktop keyboard looks right now (well, sort of)
http://www.filips.net/images/keyboard.JPG

Hey, PJE, why don't you send your design to HP and also remind them of the need for international keyboards? :lol:

[phenderson]

I think this unit shows promise in that it is able to provide everything that the a power PPC user needs. The only thing it is lacking is Cellular wireless and compact size. So what that is what a cell phone is for. YOu want a smaller unit, get an h19xx. You want something to game, type, work on, that can sort of take the place of a notebook. Get one of these.
I love the intergrated thumb board. I also love the d-pad. Many of the models with build in thumb boards lack the d-pad. I am a gamer as well as a IT person so I would love to get my hands on this baby. With the built in wireless and faster CPU it should take the place of the 5555 and 5540....

[greenmozart]

I, too, am a fan of the thumb boards. They give us a choice of input methods. The problem with most of them these days is they are too bulky. But I think if HP can design the 1910 to be small they can probably do a decent job keeping this one small enough to pocket. Obviously it can't be as small as the 1910, but NO OTHER PPC IS! I'll take the slightly larger form if I can have a REAL input method like the thumb board. Now just add a cover like the old Jornada 568 and I'll be in heaven!

The key here is CHOICE! HP is doing a decent job following the Sony model of offering consumers a wide variety of devices to choose from. Sony takes it a bit too far, I think - effectively cutting off support for several devices due to the high shelf turnover rate. I very much look forward to seeing what the hp 4000 series PPCs actually look like.

[hshortt]

Wow, I can't believe how rubbish this is.

Honestly, it's just a thumboard slipped onto the bottom of a 2210/15. Nothing else. It does not even *look* integrated.

The form factor is terrible, this device would be far to long, PJE made a great transition in a couple of photoshop sessions. I can't believe that device designers would ever let this unit get out the door, without these types of modifications.

Why oh why are we just copying PALM, this is so much like the Tungsten TC. PPC really needs some injection of excitment in the design area. I find that Sony are the most radical in their designs of PALM devices, I'd love to see them make a PPC.

Cheers

[Jeff Rutledge]

To me, including a thumb keyboard without including GPRS or CDMA is useless. Hopefully that model is in the works.

[Stephen Beesley]

For me the keyboard would just get in the way most of the time as I tend to use Transcriber a lot. That said I would really like the option of having the keyboard when I need it.

The Sharp SL5600 layout (a picture of which appears earlier in this thread) with the retractable keyboard would be ideal for my needs.

Goldtee

[Stephen Beesley]

For me the keyboard would just get in the way most of the time as I tend to use Transcriber a lot. That said I would really like the option of having the keyboard when I need it.

The Sharp SL5600 layout (a picture of which appears earlier in this thread) with the retractable keyboard would be ideal for my needs.

Goldtee

[szamot]

To me this looks very Apple-ish - doesn't it? I am intrigued to see what the final product will be.

[Ed Hansberry]

Future of handheld computing and Palm concept device discussion moved to http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18142

:nonono:

[HOLLYWOOD_]

"RIM had 463,000 BlackBerry subscribers as of Nov. 30, 2002, according to company figures, and expects to add another 60,000 to 70,000 subscribers in the next quarter."

If HP plans on targeting the half million BlackBerry users, they will need CDMA, GPRS built in. Not to mention, they could steal market share from Treo as well.
[/quote]

[mr_Ray]

Would we not be better with just a solid locking mechanism for a plug in keyboard? I doubt that many people would want the keyboard 24/7 (most PPC use I would guess at 90% output / 10% input)?

If it locked on securely, and had a pass-through for the coms socket, you could either leave it on all the time, or take it off when the smaller form-factor is more important than having the keyboard. Sure you 'd need two different cases, but the flexibility IMHO would be worth it.

Since keyboards are so simple, perhaps they could even have another SD slot or something, but that's perhaps too adventurous for the don't-rock-the-boat PPC market. ;-)

I just think that I'd love a usable keyboard 5-10% of the time, but the rest of the time a smaller unit is preferable, and this would seem to be the ideal solution.
As I said though, the add-on keyboard would have to look integrated, be a solid fit, and have pass-through - otherwise it'd end up more of a liability.

[JonnoB]

Hi,

Why do all PocketPCs with a keyboard need to be so long?

Thoughts...

No dpad, no PDA for me.

[arb]

Hello:
I have been using Compaq's and HP units for quite a while, Having owned all the models made by both companies I found that features on one was better than the other and vise versa.... Now comes the present...

Since the picture that is posted is a line drawing the reality of this H4350 being real production model is about 80%. So what are the problems with this unit.
Well personally there isn't any problem, this model is a keyboard edition to their growing line.. as the 5000 series ends its life and the 3xxx/5xxx series come to EOL cycle for HP, the new standard is going to be the 2xxx platform. why, because this is what most people want, small PDA with great expandability. So why a keyboard edition? Simplily because that is where the market is being pushed to. I would say that HP has though about this design after months of research in a corporate environment.

I like the edition of a keyboard line it saves space and there are less things to carry around. Does this PDA need a GSM/GPRS module installed, No... having two peice units are more reilable then one. ( also, all the palm units that have phones built in need an ear peice to work and even if they have bluetooth built in, it will not re-route the audio to a BT-Headset.)

If I could make a change to the h4350 design it would be to have all the application buttons moved to the side of the unit, either right or left and a jog dial that acts like a scroll and volume.
Also change the D-pad to the mini-joystick that Zire71 has.

Thats my 2 Cents! :mrgreen:

[anthonymoody]

Surprised no one's mentioned the Sony Clie UX50...IMO that's the most similar device to this one: BT, WiFi, and a hard keyboard. Yes, the form factor and overall design is different (much better on the UX50 IMO), not to mention the different OS.

I recently switched from an XDA to a UX50+BT phone and am happy I did. I only need my PDA some of the time, but my phone all of the time. Going back to 2 devices gives me that flexibility.

I might consider such an HP device, but it's WAY too tall if those specs are correct. 5.5 inches? Please.

TM

[apeguero]

Also, why can't the right side of these Pocket PCs be used? I mean, why not place the short cut buttons on the right side? I only use the thumboard when playing games which would be 10% of the time that I use these for. I guess a model like what PJE drew would be really great especially since it would have a scroll wheel on the left side.

[apeguero]

Hi,

Why do all PocketPCs with a keyboard need to be so long?

Here's what I'd like to see...

http://www.wwnet.net/~peter.elliot/ipaq.gif

Thoughts...

You should copyright this :D then send it to HP for consideration. I'd buy this one.

[HOLLYWOOD_]

No... having two peice units are more reilable then one.

This is not true for the masses. The reason why BlackBerry has been so successful is the ease of setup and use. Integrated always-on email attracts the corporate customer.

[thrush]

if i would really need a thumb keyboard, i would buy it seperately. hey, i'm not writing mails all the time! my idea of a perfect ppc is a slightly smaller and less bulkier 2215 with scroll button. and don't forget to exclude the stupid rubber grip thing which comes off after only 1 month. 8O this is driving me nuts!!

[Bruno Figueiredo]

For those missing application launchers, task switchers and a D-Pad I have a design proposal:

http://gaudi.fa.utl.pt/~bfigueiredo/ipaqred4350.gif

The keyboard functions only after pressing that lower left disc button.

So, what do you think?

[PJE]

No dpad, no PDA for me.
It should be possible to integrate a workable d-pad into the keyboard.

How about this.

http://www.wwnet.net/~peter.elliot/ipaq_dpad.gif

The D-Pad is at an angle, but should be comfortable to use. A mirror image on each side would suit left/right handed users.

[jnunn]

This device is as long as the 5555 (to within a mm) but lacks the exaggerated curvature of the 5555. Hence it will seem much longer in your hand.

When the device is in your hand it will feel like the longest iPAQ ever made. Have you ever held a Toshiba? They seem much larger than their dimensions due to lack of curvature. The 4350's slight curvature will make is seem longer than the 5555's exaggerated curvature.

I think this device shows a absence of immagination. The Palm OS form factors are immaginative: can't HP at least copy? HP had made great progress with the 1910 and 2210 form factors so HP should continue its momentum instead giving it up.

[SandersP]

Well they try to hide the length using two tone chasis design. BUt it'll still look rediculous I bet.

[Kevin Daly]

So to summarise feedback to date:
"Grizzle grizzle, whine, 'That's Rubbish!', whinge whinge".

Good to see we're maintaining standards.
(Just kidding. Really. No, honestly I am :) ).

Actually, to me it looks like a line drawing of a 2215 with one of the new slim thumb keyboards slipped on the bottom (does anyone know whether that combination is possible by the way? I'd like that).

A clamshell would be nice (although 'fess up, how many of you would complain about it making the machine too fat?), it just looks like it'll be a little while before any of the vendors break ranks to that extent with their PPC designs. Maybe Motorola (could be a song title there).

The rumour as I understood it was that HP were going to produce one new model with the thumb keyboard and one without...so people who want the integrated keyboard can buy one of these (er, the PPC, not the drawing) if they want, while those who don't will not be forced by sadistic whip-wielding HP enforcers to hand over their hard owned cash for something they don't want (or apparently loathe in some cases).
I also have it on good authority that they will not be breaking into people's houses in the dead of night and soldering desktop keyboards onto the bottom of their iPaq 1940s.

Freedom of choice.
0X

[Kevin Daly]

Why do all PocketPCs with a keyboard need to be so long?Z

Because the aspect ratio of the screen isn't the same as that of a Palm - Palm has it easy with a square screen, whereas Pocket PCs have to contend with a portrait (tall) screen. I too would like to see something closer to your design, but it might not be possible to cram it all in without that extra height.

The Palm devices have another advantage in this area stemming from what I regard as a disadvantage of their non-keypad designs: the original form factor includes a hardware graffitti entry area (or something like that...I apologise to the Palm community for any inaccuracy, but you know the thing I mean). Keypad-enabled versions can reclaim the space this occupies.

I always liked the Psion clamshell form factor to be honest...I'd quite like a Pocket PC with a right- or left-hinged keyboard-cum-cover that could be used in a switchable landscape mode.

[arb]

I did a little Photoshop croping here with h2215 and that h4350 and came out with this look

The buttons are on the side of the screen, which make it easier to do one hand operation, a jog dial ( not shown ) and the screen is moved up a little to accomendate the keyboard, the unit is the same size as the 2215 but with the keyboard added and buttons moved and the familar h5555 WiFi stump at the right side as opposed to the left... oh and the screen is moved over a little bit to squeeze the action buttons in :)


... I do not see how to post an image on this site???

[/img][/code]

[Janak Parekh]

... I do not see how to post an image on this site???
You need to host it somewhere else -- and then you can use the IMG tag to refer to it.

--janak

[arb]

I posted the picture on other PDA website, but can i link you guys to it from here????

[madbart]

Unlike some others in the group i am not under an NDA so i can tell you taht this unit will be released at Xmas or shortly there after. Also being release at the same time will be a clamshell designed unit.

[Fzara]

Looks photoshopped to me-you can easily the instant lines on the thumboard, and it seems like it's a cut and paste from the thumboard accessory.

I don't see how this could fit into the Ipaq line-2215 form factor, WiFi, BT, and a thumboard. Seems like there is no product differentiation between the Ipaq 5550 to me, except for the lack of a thumprint scanner.

[Autarch]

Disappointing. I was hoping for more RAM and ROM and a flip cover. Giving up a CF slot to get built-in WiFI seems like a poor trade to me, and I wouldn't upgrade just for a thumbboard.

[Gavin Henriques]

Madbart,
Do you know anymore info on the clamshell? Will it run pocket pc or handheld pc software? Will it be similar to the old jornada 600/700 series?

[bradolson]

looks like a nice device to me. has everything i want (except for gprs).

brad

[madbart]

According to my rep at HP the unit will be released next month.

[JonasGrumby]

I was just part of an HP multimedia presentation at work (Office Depot), and indeed this is the actual new iPaq.

The step-down, the 4100, looks similar to the 1900 series, basically the 4300 minus the thumbboard.

http://home.comcast.net/~jjcain5/lineup.gif[/img]

[Pocket PC Dubai]

JonasGrumby,

From the picture the 4355 model looks like it comes with a keyboard slides-out, I hope this is true?!!

[Fishie]

JonasGrumby,

From the picture the 4355 model looks like it comes with a keyboard slides-out, I hope this is true?!!

Keyboard slides out, keyboard holds battery.
Just a guess :P

[mark77]

so let me get this straight.... from the picture you just provided, the 4100 doesn't have CF, just SDIO.

So I guess the rumors were incorrect? Otherwise, other than the different formfactor and CF, it is what was predicted: wifi, SD, 3.5 screen


disapointing....

[AhuhX]

I was just part of an HP multimedia presentation at work (Office Depot), and indeed this is the actual new iPaq.

The step-down, the 4100, looks similar to the 1900 series, basically the 4300 minus the thumbboard.

http://home.comcast.net/~jjcain5/lineup.gif[/img]

Does that thumbboard slide out on the 4300? It would be awesome if it did.

[AhuhX]

I don't see why everyone keeps saying on various sites that this looks like a 2200.. Clearly it's coming from the same factory that does the 1900 line... look at the power button... does that look like the 2200's or the 1900's? :?

[Bruno Figueiredo]

So, i'm guessin it would be like this?

http://gaudi.fa.utl.pt/~bfigueiredo/ipaq4350slide.gif

Man, it would be sweet...

:drool:

[Kevin Daly]

JonasGrumby,

From the picture the 4355 model looks like it comes with a keyboard slides-out, I hope this is true?!!

I have my doubts...if the keyboard slides out, then based on the illustrations the lower half of the buttons would seem to be hanging in mid-air.

[yslee]

Argh, no CF slot. Why, HP, why? :( With that sliding keyboard (if it is one), it'll be a real killer!

[Kevin Daly]

Argh, no CF slot. Why, HP, why? :( With that sliding keyboard (if it is one), it'll be a real killer!

A CF Slot, WiFi, sliding keyboard...might it not be deeper than it is wide in that case?Just guessing.

If the keyboard is not a sliding one (and I hope it is, even though I don't think sofor the reasons I stated earlier), I think the reason that it adds so much lengh to the device is that the 4355 appears to retain a fairly normal set of hardware buttons including the D-pad, whereas these are obscured by HP's nifty new micro keypad+cover for the 38xxx-55xx series (if a modified version of that was available for the 2210 I'd be in heaven).
The combination of keypad + largely unmodified button set looks so clunky that either I'm wrong and the keypad does slide out, or what we're looking at are designs for an early conceptual mock-up made by splicing a keypad onto the bottom of a fairly standard device.

[zul277]

I was just part of an HP multimedia presentation at work (Office Depot), and indeed this is the actual new iPaq.

The step-down, the 4100, looks similar to the 1900 series, basically the 4300 minus the thumbboard.

http://home.comcast.net/~jjcain5/lineup.gif[/img]

I'm planning to get the Ipaq 2210 at the end of this month when I'm in singapore. I was tempted to wait for the 4100 series but looking at this presentation it seems like HP has traded off the CF card slot for the wireless. I seldom use wifi except at home and maybe in coffee shops and headquaters at work. Even then I would have my trusty notebook with me. So wifi is not really important.

So if this presentation is acurate, it would be better to get the 2215(US$370) and a CF wifi module (US$75). I wouldnt mind waiting for the 4100 if there is also a CF slot to use with my other CF memory cards but it may become too big for me. And no I will not use sleeves...