PDA Corps Reviews DateLens [Archive]

Ed Hansberry

09-12-2003, 04:00 AM

<a href="http://www.pdacorps.com/default.asp?key=pages/datelenscalendar.htm">http://www.pdacorps.com/default.asp?key=pages/datelenscalendar.htm</a> "DateLens Calendar from Windsor Interfaces has been released, and unless I missed the party, it has snuck in to the market with not so much of a big bang as a muted whimper. In actual fact, it's my opinion that Windsor Interfaces have developed an interface here worth shouting about." <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2003/20030829-datelens.gif" /> You can also read about the discussion we had a few weeks ago <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17332">in this thread</a>.

Kevin Jackson

09-12-2003, 05:27 AM

I have to agree with the conclusions of the review. DateLens is one of the most intuitive and unique interfaces around. It goes beyond being a mere program and into the realm of great interface design -- it adheres to most everything I have learned about good user interface design.

Within days of loading it I registered it.

If you haven't checked it out yet I recommend you do yourself a favor and do so now.

I can't wait to load the desktop version (http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/datelens/), too.

JonnoB

09-12-2003, 06:36 AM

Animated GIF images don't tell the real story of what the product does. You need to see a video or demo to fully understand.

rhmorrison

09-12-2003, 09:06 AM

Up til now I haven't wanted to install the Compact .Net runtime due to the large memory requirements but I did to try out this baby. Looks like another $15 gone - very intuative interface! A real contender for a Pocket PC Thoughts "whateverthenameis" award :!:
:grouphug:

jwf

09-12-2003, 11:21 AM

I thought the .Net framework was supposed to hide the underlying processor architecture, like Java does. So why do they need separately downloadable .cab files for different processors?

Ed Hansberry

09-12-2003, 12:47 PM

mr_Ray

09-12-2003, 01:11 PM

I thought the .Net framework was supposed to hide the underlying processor architecture, like Java does. So why do they need separately downloadable .cab files for different processors?There is a difference between a common API and virtual machine. .NET is not the latter. :)

And neither is it the former, but it's very similar to both. :)

.NET applications compile to MSIL bytecode, which is then compiled to native code when it's run on the machine. Once Mono (.NET for Linux) is finished you'll be able to run the same .NET executable on both Linux and Windows. Unless MS have done something funny for the Comfact Framework, I can't see there being a difference here (apart from the bits that've had to be cut out to fit in the limited memory).

It is however also possible to pre-compile to native code (which can be both good and bad), which the developers might have done in this case. That would certainly explain the different downloads, and since it's suggested in the review that the app is slow to start up, they might have done this to shave a second or so off the startup time by having a pre-compiled binary.

Of course, there could also be some other explanation that I've missed somewhere. :)

Cypher

09-12-2003, 01:29 PM

I may have to eat these remarks after I play with this a bit more, but it looks a lot like Pocket Informant's calendar. Am I missing something? Or is it just that DataLens is a bit less expensive and just does calendar functions?

Peter Foot

09-12-2003, 01:30 PM

I thought the .Net framework was supposed to hide the underlying processor architecture, like Java does. So why do they need separately downloadable .cab files for different processors?

It does, however the minute you step outside the .NET Compact Framework and call external code you may be introducing platform specific code. In this example to integrate with Pocket Outlook requires a piece of native code because .NETCF cannot directly use the COM based Pocket Outlook Object Model API. Therefore a very small wrapper dll is required which exposes straight C functions which can be called from within .NETCF. This would explain the need for cpu specific cab files for the product.

Peter

pcause

09-12-2003, 01:51 PM

I'm still not certain what all the hype is about. PI has had an inline month view that provdes this style interface. You get the inline detail and the like. The nice thing about PI is that you get to choose what style you want. Some will love this interface, othgers not, and while it is great for a month view, there are times when an agenda are useful. The Day views appear to be the same. PI has the traditonal and graphical WV as well. And in PI, you can make the graphical WV a graphical 2 week view, etc.

But the *REAL* issue is that a PIM needs more then just a pretty WV. It is the richness ande capability of the TV (hierarchical tasks, group by, multi-level priorities, etc) and the contacts view, things like linking and fast global search and more that make a PIM worth more $$ then the built in stuff.

paris

09-12-2003, 01:55 PM

gorkon280

09-12-2003, 02:15 PM

It's a neat idea, but it kind of makes my head hurt! Maybe if it only showed the 2 days around the day your looking at it would be a bit easier on the eyes? The old eyes here are getting older and less tolerant to tiny type! :)

MobiliT

09-12-2003, 02:20 PM

Anyone know if purchasing DateLens entitles users to free (perhaps lifetime) upgrades?

09-12-2003, 02:50 PM

It's a neat idea, but it kind of makes my head hurt! Maybe if it only showed the 2 days around the day your looking at it would be a bit easier on the eyes? The old eyes here are gettign older and less tolerant to tiny type! :)
I'm with you there. I find that PI gives me more than enough detail. I wonder who really needs as much info as this app provides?

Anyone know if purchasing DateLens entitles users to free (perhaps lifetime) upgrades?
It's probably as likely as buying a beer and getting free lifetime refills. :D

Crystal Eitle

09-12-2003, 04:10 PM

Does anyone use both DateLens and Pocket Informant? I really like PI, but I find its week view leaves a bit to be desired. The week view just does not show enough detail for me. I tried to fiddle around with it and find a better way to display it, but no luck.

So, is there anyone using both these programs? How's it working out?

Doug Raeburn

09-12-2003, 04:18 PM

I'm still not certain what all the hype is about. PI has had an inline month view that provdes this style interface. You get the inline detail and the like.

You really have to try DateLens to see the difference. The PI Inline Month view looks similar on the surface, but DateLens goes far beyond expanding on a single day in a 30 day month. There's tons of flexibility in the DateLens implementation that the PI implementation lacks. Frankly, I didn't understand the appeal of such a view when I used it in PI, but now that I've seen a more flexible and full featured implementation such as in DateLens, I see the appeal.

But the *REAL* issue is that a PIM needs more then just a pretty WV. It is the richness ande capability of the TV (hierarchical tasks, group by, multi-level priorities, etc) and the contacts view, things like linking and fast global search and more that make a PIM worth more $$ then the built in stuff.

I agree... once you get beyond the admitted very slick and flexible month/months view, DateLens is pretty barebones. Very limited editors, no tasks, no alarm notes, no contacts, no notes, no attendees, no links, etc. The seamless integration of these PIM components and the wide variety of views are where PI and AF really shine.

PJE

09-12-2003, 04:37 PM

Anyone know if purchasing DateLens entitles users to free (perhaps lifetime) upgrades?
It's probably as likely as buying a beer and getting free lifetime refills. :D

Not quite the same thing...

With beer you're buying the finished product.

With software you're sometimes buying the potential within the software with the hope/expectation that the software is developed further.

I think PocketInformant has got the upgrade cost structure correct, with even large upgrades being free for new users, with older users paying a small fee.

Sometimes developers put the program on the market too quickly, and the early adoptors are paying for its development. They should not be charged for upgrades to the same level of product they originally bought. If significant changes were made to the functionality (Tasks etc.. added in this case) then a case for a small upgrade fee could be made IF the cost of the software were increased.

09-12-2003, 04:48 PM

I think PocketInformant has got the upgrade cost structure correct, with even large upgrades being free for new users, with older users paying a small fee.
I agree with you. WebIS have gotten it just right. Indeed, I believe their upgrade policy is on the generous side, I would have expected to pay for the recent 4.5 ungrade since there were a ton of improvements.

I'll be happy to pay for an upgrade to 5.0 when it is done.

eappell

09-12-2003, 06:38 PM

I downloaded the PPC and desktop version and I can't get EITHER to work at all. I downloaded the .NET 1.1 Framework and installed it on my desktop, but when I start Outlook there's no sign of the toolbar add-in. I've uninstalled and re-installed and NOTHING shows up.

FOr the PPC, I installed the .NET Compact Framework, then the app, but when I click on the icon for it nothing happens. I tried clickling the file directly in file explorer and nothing. Anyone know what's the deal?

I'm using this on a iPaq 2215 and my desktop is XP Pro running Outlook 2002.

Thanks!

Eddie

Steven Cedrone

09-12-2003, 06:47 PM

FOr the PPC, I installed the .NET Compact Framework, then the app, but when I click on the icon for it nothing happens. I tried clickling the file directly in file explorer and nothing. Anyone know what's the deal?

I'm using this on a iPaq 2215 and my desktop is XP Pro running Outlook 2002.

Don't know about the desktop version, because since it's unsupported, I won't use it...

Your 2215 does NOT need the .NET Compact Framework!!!

Uninstall both of the programs you installed on your Pocket PC, then install the ARM version of the software...

You should be O.K. at that point...

Steve

eappell

09-12-2003, 07:03 PM

OK, just so I'm clear, download the ARMV4 file, right? I am using PPC 2003...

Thanks - e.

eappell

09-12-2003, 07:40 PM

I uninstalled the .NET Compact Framework and Datelens. Then I did a soft reset and reinstalled Datelens. I get the same thing. When I tap the icon for the program NOTHING happens! I am having no other problems with my device right now, so I'm stumped...

bederson

09-12-2003, 08:51 PM

I thought the .Net framework was supposed to hide the underlying processor architecture, like Java does. So why do they need separately downloadable .cab files for different processors?
We're actually following the advice of Microsoft, but I agree that it doesn't seem like it ought to be necessary. We'll check into it to see if the multiple .cab files can be avoided.

bederson

09-12-2003, 08:57 PM

Animated GIF images don't tell the real story of what the product does. You need to see a video or demo to fully understand.
I totally agree with you JonnoB so here is the link so everyone can see the demo and understand what this application is all about and why its damn cool. http://www.windsorinterfaces.com/datelens-demo.html
Our vision has always been to keep it simple, and do the most important things well. We have found that we heavily rely on our Pocket PC calendars, but all the other PIM stuff is more frequently performed on the desktop. And so, we concentrated on building the best calendar we could. Of course, this is our personal view, and DateLens isn't for everyone. But I would bet a majority of Pocket PC users use their calendar much more than the other PIM types. And for those users (like me), we hope that DateLens is exactly what is needed.

bederson

09-12-2003, 09:00 PM

Anyone know if purchasing DateLens entitles users to free (perhaps lifetime) upgrades?
We plan on giving free upgrades for the forseeable future. When we get to the point where we do a major change, we'll consider charging a smaller fee to existing users.

bederson

09-12-2003, 09:03 PM

I downloaded the PPC and desktop version and I can't get EITHER to work at all. I downloaded the .NET 1.1 Framework and installed it on my desktop, but when I start Outlook there's no sign of the toolbar add-in. I've uninstalled and re-installed and NOTHING shows up.
...
Eddie
Sorry about this. We've had a few reports of people that don't see the DateLens button in the Outlook desktop toolbar. Naturally, it works perfectly for us on a number of test machines :?, but we'll try to figure out what the problem is, and post here when we get it fixed.

bederson

09-12-2003, 09:08 PM

OK, just so I'm clear, download the ARMV4 file, right? I am using PPC 2003...

Thanks - e.
That's right. We've had only two reports of people that couldn't get DateLens to run. One did a hard reset and it magically started working :cry: :cry: :cry: We didn't hear back from the other.

So, there may be an occasional bug in MS's compact framework - or maybe it is something else. In any case, we'll continue trying to hunt it down, and will let you know if we figure it out. And, while I wouldn't ask you to do a hard reset, if you do, please let me know if it works. Sorry.

eappell

09-12-2003, 09:23 PM

Right, as I said, everything else is working fine, so I wouldn't want to do a hard reset on the system and have to restore everything. But let me know if you figure it out, and I'll let you know if it starts working for me! I'd like to try it out...

Thanks,

Eddie

SassKwatch

09-13-2003, 02:22 AM

We have found that we heavily rely on our Pocket PC calendars, but all the other PIM stuff is more frequently performed on the desktop.
That might make an interesting poll somewhere. I would *guess* that Contacts are at least as important for most users as is the Calendar....hard to have much of a Calendar w/o Contacts.:)

And though I may actually perform most of my 'Tasks' on the desktop, I want/need to be able to track them on both the desktop and PPC. In fact, for *me*, it's more important to be able to track them on the mobile device as that goes with me everywhere.

I would *love* to see similar functionality developed for Tasks. Heck, someone has to actually do all the Tasks that are talked about by the meeting junkies. :)

Jeff Rutledge

09-13-2003, 02:51 AM

That might make an interesting poll somewhere. I would *guess* that Contacts are at least as important for most users as is the Calendar....hard to have much of a Calendar w/o Contacts.:)

I hardly ever use my Contacts. Almost all of my appointments are either stand-alone or meeting requests which I create or accept on my Desktop computer. I think part of it is that I have a good memory for numbers so I hardly ever have to look up a number on my PPC.

And though I may actually perform most of my 'Tasks' on the desktop, I want/need to be able to track them on both the desktop and PPC. In fact, for *me*, it's more important to be able to track them on the mobile device as that goes with me everywhere.

Ditto. I'm a heavy task user and more than half of the time I'm performing Task functions on my PPC.

gorkon280

09-13-2003, 04:01 AM

I mean It's neat and all, but I am really happy with Pocket Outlook. It does what I need it to do, no more, no less. I also don't want to see all of the detail on the screen at the same time. It's just too damn small of a screen for that.

SassKwatch

09-13-2003, 09:39 AM

I hardly ever use my Contacts. Almost all of my appointments are either stand-alone or meeting requests which I create or accept on my Desktop computer.
I could pretty much ditto that....though more and more all the time I also want to know who the other attendees are at the meeting and hence wish to link to their contact info.

Ditto. I'm a heavy task user....
<tongue in cheek mode on>I'm glad to hear that. I was beginning to think maybe I was the only one left in the world who actually did any of the work all the meeting junkies are constantly meeting about. </tongue in cheek mode off> :)

Their *seems* to be something of a tendency amongst developers to be Calendar-centric when working on PIM projects. And while I don't doubt there are a sizable number of their users who are high level execs whose life revolves around meetings/appointments, it would seem likely there are at least as many (hopefully more) users for whom Tasks are the dominant need.