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The Yaz
09-03-2003, 08:10 PM
This is not a paid advertisment, just a testomonial.

For those who have not taken the plunge and become a subscriber, I just wanted to show you what neat stuff joining gets you.

I signed up for the full subscription ($36).

Jason sent me a $20 online coupon for vaja cases. (my real subscription cost $16).

The coupon gave me the impetus to finally give up the cheap leatherette sleeve and get a nice case. I ended up getting the Vaja Universal Pouch which is awsome! It holds my Maestro, my CF Wireless Ethernet, my CF 56k Modem, and still has room for two SD cards and my business cards.

In addition, Jason has gotten some great software for free/or discounted. I ordered PDAMill's Snails for free through the discount page, which is a $9.95 value. (my real subscription price $6.05).

Once I get my technology budget replenished, (Accountants like to set money aside for our hobbies) I am going to use the 15% coupon at handango and get Handmark's Scrabble which will save me another $4.50 (my real subscription price $1.55)

So as anyone can see, I've already recouped my subscription in less than two weeks! This doesn't even factor in the automatic entries into giveaways, or discount opts down the road.

But the best part is knowing you can join a group of people that span the world to keep a forum that we enjoy together alive and growing (to further sate our need for PocketPC info!).

And if that don't convince you, I don't know what will.

Steve 8)

dean_shan
09-03-2003, 08:27 PM
The way I look at is that they are paying me to be a subscriber.

Jason Dunn
09-03-2003, 08:33 PM
The way I look at is that they are paying me to be a subscriber.

I never could get the hang of "the new math". :oops: :lol:

Thanks for the kind words! It's very, very gratifying for me to see that the value proposition is there for people. We've had a few people cancel before their trial period was up, and even though I've asked, no one has told me why they cancelled. I'd really like to know, because I want to make it SO valuable, no one will possibly think of cancelling. :mrgreen:

GoldKey
09-03-2003, 08:36 PM
The subscription service is definitely a win/win situation. Kudos to Jason and company for pulling off what very few other websites have been able to do.

Zensbikeshop
09-03-2003, 08:49 PM
I agree fully.

I'm happy to support websites I use so much and get so much value from; I can appreciate the work it must take to make Thoughts what it is.

And that is without the financial incentives - I too have made full use of my Subscriber discounts and look forward to the Big Thinker giveaway.

buckyg
09-03-2003, 08:53 PM
Okay, okay, I'm convinced! A site this good deserves support...

Actually, I was convinced before this. I'll have to wait a few weeks though. I've got several trips during this month. I get this "travel paranoia" if you will. It has nothing to do with fear of travel. I've learned the hard way: Before trips, be careful about spending "money" (both real & plastic) and also be careful installing new stuff on my laptop and PPC.

Will miss some good drawings, but that's my fault...

wocket
09-03-2003, 09:29 PM
Beats any magazine subscription hands down.

easylife
09-03-2003, 10:05 PM
OK The Yaz, here is some alternative math:

Subscription price: $36
Vaja Universal Pouch (http://www.vajacases.com/Vaja/catalogo.nsf/SelProdsEN/CUS705): $70 8O
Vaja Certificate Thingy: $-20
Scrabble (http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?productType=2&optionId=1_2_2&jid=X22C31FF14CB745CB9A25X1961B72DF2&platformId=2&siteId=1&productId=43204&sectionId=0&catalog=30&txtSearch=handmark+scrabble): $30
Money Back: $-4.50

Total Spent: $111.50! 8O Ouch!

So you see, while I like PPCT, I'm not ready to drop over $100 here right now. I'm sure you'll understand... :wink:

Janak Parekh
09-03-2003, 10:25 PM
So you see, while I like PPCT, I'm not ready to drop over $100 here right now. I'm sure you'll understand... :wink:
Don't worry, we understand. :) Everyone's budget is different. But if you have the budget to invest $$ into your Pocket PC, we'd like to make this site a better investment as time goes on -- we're always looking for feedback.

--janak

petvas
09-03-2003, 10:40 PM
I would become a subscriber anyway!!! I don't need any discount to decide that... 8)
I love supporting PPC Enthusiast Sites...

dh
09-03-2003, 10:52 PM
We've had a few people cancel before their trial period was up, and even though I've asked, no one has told me why they cancelled. I'd really like to know, because I want to make it SO valuable, no one will possibly think of cancelling. :mrgreen:

I actually did cancel my subscription during the trial period. I forget why, I'm sure it was one of your comments annoyed me at the time. I started it again the next day. Checking the BBC News and the Mobile Forums is my first job most mornings, before even leaving the bed.

I haven't taken advantage of any of the discounts or freebies yet, nothing I really needed so far, but I'm sure there will be. Might have to get hold of that Vaja coupon. Even without that, it's a good thing to subscribe to.

dean_shan
09-03-2003, 11:01 PM
Be sure to snag snails dh. That game is fun. I'm still waiting for the real thing (Worms World Party) to come out. That I will buy.

ux4484
09-03-2003, 11:08 PM
Sorry, but Public TV (WTTW Chicago) and NPR get subscription checks, and I watch/listen to them WAYYYY more than I'm here. I'm sure the value is here at PPCT for some, but not for me.

mirkazemisaman
09-04-2003, 01:57 AM
I'll subscribe as soon as I get home (at camp right now). What's got you guys talking about discounts and $#%@. IMHO that nifty little subscribers icon is worth millions of dollars alone :lol: .

maximus
09-04-2003, 02:02 AM
I started it again the next day. Checking the BBC News and the Mobile Forums is my first job most mornings, before even leaving the bed.

BBC news, mobile forum, and then dunking the bread into the fry pan ? :D

PetiteFlower
09-04-2003, 03:39 AM
I did get the free game from PDAMill, but it's something that I wouldn't have gotten if it wasn't free. And I didn't get the full subscription because I knew I wouldn't be able to afford a Vaja case even WITH the coupon so there wasn't much use of that for me(that and I didn't feel the need for the extra features it provided). I didn't subscribe to get free stuff though(well I did want to be able to enter the contests!), I subscribed because I wanted to support this site and because I wanted to be able to use the mobile forums!

Jason Dunn
09-04-2003, 03:42 AM
I'm sure the value is here at PPCT for some, but not for me.

That strikes me as sort of a funny statement coming from someone that has posted 277 times - that's not a small number! I think you're here more often than you think. :wink: :lol:

Jason Dunn
09-04-2003, 03:43 AM
I actually did cancel my subscription during the trial period. I forget why, I'm sure it was one of your comments annoyed me at the time. I started it again the next day. Checking the BBC News and the Mobile Forums is my first job most mornings, before even leaving the bed.

Hmm. Thanks for letting me know that. Note to self: don't piss off subscribers, they're paying your bills. :lol:

dh
09-04-2003, 03:44 AM
BBC news, mobile forum, and then dunking the bread into the fry pan ? :D
Some of us just know how to start the day. :lol:

Janak Parekh
09-04-2003, 03:46 AM
I'm sure the value is here at PPCT for some, but not for me.
That strikes me as sort of a funny statement coming from someone that has posted 277 times - that's not a small number! I think you're here more often than you think. :wink: :lol:
Maybe ux just types fast, so it's only a few minutes' worth of posts. :) Of course, value is all relative. Just keep on losing money, Jason, and eventually we'll have 11,000 subscribers. The only problem is that you will be paying them, not the other way around. 8O :razzing:

--janak

dh
09-04-2003, 03:54 AM
I actually did cancel my subscription during the trial period. I forget why, I'm sure it was one of your comments annoyed me at the time. I started it again the next day. Checking the BBC News and the Mobile Forums is my first job most mornings, before even leaving the bed.

Hmm. Thanks for letting me know that. Note to self: don't piss off subscribers, they're paying your bills. :lol:
I would look at it from the other direction. The only way to never annoy anyone is to have a personality bypass operation, which is a very bad idea.

One of the things I like about this site is that it is growing into a great community with all kinds of characters. I would prefer being pissed once in a while to being bored anyday.

Like Petite Flower said, supporting PPCT is a good thing with or without the discounts.

PetiteFlower
09-04-2003, 04:06 AM
Note to self: don't piss off subscribers, they're paying your bills. :lol:

I know you're joking, but seriously, don't start trying to please everyone just because now some of us are paying customers. Keep being honest and writing about what you think is important, that's what makes this site grand!

bazza
09-04-2003, 08:51 AM
I think PPCT is a fantatsic site!! The decision to subscribe should be based on maintaining the excellent service it provides, not on the potential to receive discounts. I think that the site alone provides "bangs for your bucks" and is well worth the subscription. I agree with Petite Flower - stop trying to please everyone and keep the honesty going!!! :D

The real question is what would you pay to have a site like this if it didn't exist. I think that after you visit some of the "Crappy" sites out there the subscritpion fee is fair. Having said that, this site is still offered as a free service!!

Also. it is one thing to subscribe and then complain - another to access the service for free and "Bitch" that it isn't worth it!! Those people should go and whinge elsewhere!!! Or alternatively charge them a democratic whining fee so that we get a discount (Oh No! I said the D word) :wink: for the time we waste reading their petty complaints!!! :twak:

ux4484
09-04-2003, 02:40 PM
Also. it is one thing to subscribe and then complain - another to access the service for free and "Bitch" that it isn't worth it!! Those people should go and whinge elsewhere!!! Or alternatively charge them a democratic whining fee so that we get a discount (Oh No! I said the D word) :wink: for the time we waste reading their petty complaints!!! :twak:

hmmm.......just the type of bashing that can be generated by a multi-tiered membership system.

bazza,

Janak and Jason made much better points with a little sarcasm (I actually was laughing and considered it for a minute, until I read your post). The board is still open and would clearly suffer (IMO) if it were not so. Comments like yours widen the divide between subscribers and "the others". Value is a very individual thing, and for me when I look at my yearly donations/subscriptions and say to myself who needs this more: Two places I've been supporting for years that consistantly provide entertainment/education for myself and my family (Public TV and Radio), or a news and message board I've visited for the last 10 months (in which I often end up as a sparring partner for the heavy hitters). The answer for me is obvious. While I may consider it in the future, right now it's not worth it for me, as I said originally, it is clearly worth it for some.
This is a good site, please don't sully it by looking down your nose at non-subcribers.

Steven Cedrone
09-04-2003, 03:02 PM
Janak and Jason made much better points with a little sarcasm

By the time this thread is done, you'll be over 300 posts... :wink: :wink: :wink:

Those people should go and whinge elsewhere!!!

Bazza: This is an equal opportunity whining forum, we don't discriminate here!!!

Steve

CTSLICK
09-04-2003, 04:12 PM
Bazza: This is an equal opportunity whining forum, we don't discriminate here!!!

Unless its a contest. Nearly every contest description ends with the words "No Whining" :wink:

Sorry...what was the topic again...oh yes...subscribing...which I have done since the value for me was in the mobile format, email blast and the ability to get rid of the ads. The PDAMill certificate and the Vaja Coupon were all just bonus material.

Thinkingmandavid
09-04-2003, 04:40 PM
I think this is a great site, out of all the sits I visit, this one get most of my atttention. I think for the most part people are willing to help out and I think it is great. I know it is impossible to please everyone, so please keep up the good work and give your opinions and the truth about everything ppc and pda. I look at it that there is always someone who will complain, and maybe in a different way we have all complained. So I dont have the desire to list one person or point them out when in reality we are just different people. I agree wtih petite flower, and I also agree with ux4484 about value beign different for everyone. When the time for some or many they will become a subscriber. I havent checked into it yet, but I do get the impression it is worth while. when people ask for help with their ppc, I ALWAYS recommend this site to them because it is "user friendly", meaning people are willing to help and cooperate. I think we do ourselves a service and others by what we share. Keep up the good work PPCThoughts Team!:)

famousdavis
09-04-2003, 06:25 PM
What drew me to this site is the helpful info found in this forum -- and it was available to me, a non-subscriber (at the time)! After posing some questions and receiving some very helpful replies from community members (and non-members), I thought it was good to subscribe to retain this site as a resource. I don't mind paying a modest sum to the few sites I go to for information on a consistent basis. I think Jason has struck an excellent marketing plan by making much of this site "free" to everyone, but adding additional value to those who are willing to invest into this site. Well done, Jason!

Janak Parekh
09-04-2003, 08:27 PM
The board is still open and would clearly suffer (IMO) if it were not so.
Agreed 100%. How could one even get subscribers otherwise? As Steve says, people who aren't subscribers as just as welcome as those who aren't -- anyone who makes a contribution (and I don't mean just monetary) to the community is welcome. :)

The answer for me is obvious. While I may consider it in the future, right now it's not worth it for me, as I said originally, it is clearly worth it for some.
And as I've said, different people have different budgets. To some the subscriber services are a deal, but to other it's a cost they really honestly can't afford or justify right now. That's fine. 8)

--janak

easylife
09-04-2003, 08:35 PM
And as I've said, different people have different budgets. To some the subscriber services are a deal, but to other it's a cost they really honestly can't afford or justify right now. That's fine. 8)
Hmm... there is always the third possibility that someone really does have enough money to subscribe but doesn't WANT to because they don't see enough reason to and would rather keep their money. Sometimes I think that you guys thing that non-subscribers want to subscribe but don't have the money - I'm just saying that people may not want to subscribe in the first place. :?

BTW - I'm a firm believer that the Internet was created as a free way to share information and that those same values should still apply today. 8) I also like recursive acronyms like GNU and PHP... :silly:

Janak Parekh
09-04-2003, 08:41 PM
Hmm... there is always the third possibility that someone really does have enough money to subscribe but doesn't WANT to because they don't see enough reason to and would rather keep their money.
Right -- but that's been implicit all along.

Sometimes I think that you guys thing that non-subscribers want to subscribe but don't have the money - I'm just saying that people may not want to subscribe in the first place. :?
That's fine, although Jason's always looking at ways to lose more mone...err...trying to "increase value" to those who don't find it valuable yet. :lol:

BTW - I'm a firm believer that the Internet was created as a free way to share information and that those same values should still apply today. 8)
Hrm? Remember the Internet was initially only governmental and academic institutions. Should it stay that way? ;) If it involves the rest of the world, there are huge costs to defray that government grants, etc. just don't cover.

--janak

easylife
09-04-2003, 08:46 PM
Hrm? Remember the Internet was initially only governmental and academic institutions. Should it stay that way? ;) If it involves the rest of the world, there are huge costs to defray that government grants, etc. just don't cover.
I have no problem paying for access to the Internet, but once I'm on it would be nice to have access to everything it offers... but I know that in today's society everything we do basically earns or spends money. :|

Janak Parekh
09-04-2003, 08:48 PM
I have no problem paying for access to the Internet, but once I'm on it would be nice to have access to everything it offers... but I know that in today's society everything we do basically earns or spends money. :|
Remember, the Internet is run on telecommunication links, many of which are expensive (running cables under the sea isn't easy!). The cost for you to get on, accesswise, is a fraction of what Jason pays for server-side bandwidth. That money doesn't grow on trees. By having a large consumerbase, it's an intrinsic cost.

If you're arguing that the capitalistic model that runs under this and everything else is flawed, that's a different topic entirely from this thread, and we should leave it alone or start another thread about it.

--janak

easylife
09-04-2003, 09:06 PM
If you're arguing that the capitalistic model that runs under this and everything else is flawed, that's a different topic entirely from this thread, and we should leave it alone or start another thread about it.
Because humanity is flawed, capitalism isn't. However, if we are able to reach the point where "we work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity" -Captain Picard, ST:FC instead of working for our own gains, then the capitalistic social archetecture would be flawed and communism (the good kind) would be the preferred venure of government - but enough of that, it's for another thread :wink:

Back on topic,

Yeah, but Jason pays for his content to have access to the Internet, the one thing that I think people should pay for. That is his choice. However, I think that people nowadays exploit the Internet to make money - they take advantage of the interconnectedness of the world to peddle their own services and goods. When the Internet was formed for government/academic purposes, once the institutions paid the money necessary to connect themselves to the network, they were able to access all the information on it. Now it's not so anymore, but because of our money-driven society, there is no way for the shift towards open information to happen again... :|

If it makes you feel better, I rely on broadcast television. :wink:

Janak Parekh
09-04-2003, 09:08 PM
Now it's not so anymore, but because of our money-driven society, there is no way for the shift towards open information to happen again... :|
Not true IMHO. All of the stuff that was free on the 'Net in the old days is still largely free. The difference it that there is a lot more you can get, some of which isn't, or some of which is commercially-oriented. I do miss the simplicity of the "old" Internet occasionally, but then I wake up and see what I'd have been missing. You can find nearly anything you need to know on the 'Net nowadays. Actually, you can find most of it here. :lol:

--janak

GoldKey
09-04-2003, 09:49 PM
When this site went subscriber, nothing was taken away that was previously free. More services were added that a certain portion of the user base wanted. There were 3 options for Jason a) don't provide those services b) provide them and eat the cost of providing those services or c) provide those servcies for a charge. Only option c makes sense and gives everyone what they want.

If it makes you feel better, I rely on broadcast television. :wink:

In the same vein, that is fine if you just want to rely on the free service. Because of that, even though I desire more content which costs more to produce, should I be denied the ability to willingly pay for it?

easylife
09-04-2003, 09:59 PM
In the same vein, that is fine if you just want to rely on the free service. Because of that, even though I desire more content which costs more to produce, should I be denied the ability to willingly pay for it?
Hmm... that's a valid point. However, when something is designed to be free and then people change it into an economic industry, things are lost. However, if something is designed from the ground up as an economic industry, you pay for it.

Just remember that the best things in life are free... so Jason't subscriber services are certainly not among them. :|

Janak Parekh
09-04-2003, 10:00 PM
Just remember that the best things in life are free...
Let's please stop with this line of thinking, because not only is it not relevant to the thread, but you couldn't post this opinion without a non-free computer using a non-free Internet connection using a non-free telephone line sitting in a non-free living space in a non-free country. The Internet was never free and never will be. In the old days, taxpayers and students paid for it (i.e., government and education).

--janak

easylife
09-04-2003, 10:10 PM
I will stop voicing my line of thinking, but I won't stop thinking it, ok BigDaddyJ? :wink:

Janak Parekh
09-04-2003, 10:12 PM
I will stop voicing my line of thinking, but I won't stop thinking it, ok BigDaddyJ? :wink:
I'm not asking you to think in a particular way -- if you feel this needs more discussion on PPCT, feel free to start an Off-Topic thread. But it's not ultimately not going to be about subscriber services; it's more of a general social commentary, IMHO.

--janak

easylife
09-04-2003, 10:13 PM
Well I think I'm done anyways... :?

bazza
09-04-2003, 10:20 PM
Comments like yours widen the divide between subscribers and "the others". Value is a very individual thing, and for me when I look at my yearly donations/subscriptions and say to myself who needs this more: Two places I've been supporting for years that consistantly provide entertainment/education for myself and my family (Public TV and Radio), or a news and message board I've visited for the last 10 months (in which I often end up as a sparring partner for the heavy hitters). The answer for me is obvious. While I may consider it in the future, right now it's not worth it for me, as I said originally, it is clearly worth it for some.
This is a good site, please don't sully it by looking down your nose at non-subcribers.

It is funny how a counterpoint is instantly labelled as elitist or discriminatory!!! :twak: I did make the comments "tongue-in-cheek". :wink: This site is fantastic and benefits from both non-subscribers and non-subscribers and I definitely do not look down on either!! There is some constructive reasoning behind your decision-however, I was trying to make a distinction between constructive criticism and .......(I hate to say it) ......whining- there I said it. If people choose not to subscribe - fair enough (it is a democracy) but justifying the decision with comments relating to lack of value....hmmm

This topic is one that seems to leave no room for ambivalence and instead leaves alot for humour???!!!

Incidentally, quality is like value- perceived!! What price for quality? Is something better because it is free or is it better because we pay for it?

I apologise if I have sullied this discussion with sub-standard repartee.

maximus
09-05-2003, 01:58 AM
Just remember that the best things in life are free... so Jason't subscriber services are certainly not among them. :|

It is funny of you to say that. I always believe that nothing in this life is free. There is always a price you have to pay for everything that you do in life.

Thorsten
09-05-2003, 03:03 PM
It is funny of you to say that. I always believe that nothing in this life is free. There is always a price you have to pay for everything that you do in life.

You're 100 % right. I have subscribed because I know how much time, effort, dedication and money it costs to create great content. I wanted to give everybody involved an incentive to maintain this effort. And I also do hope that this site makes money or otherwise it will not be around for long. Face it, that's how our system works and the internet is no exception.