Why isn't SD evolving? [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

whydidnt

08-19-2003, 03:10 PM

Is SD Memory technology already near the end of it's technology cycle? The reason I ask is it seems like the 512MB cards have not dropped in price like CF or even proprietary Memory Stick Cards. We also have yet to see any 1GB SD cards.

I'm just wondering if there is some sort of technical limitation within the SD cards that is preventing them from evolving as quickly as these other competitors. I hope not since it seems it has become the defacto standard for handhelds. I'm just sick of waiting and waiting for pricing to get near other forms of memory. :evil:

Whydidnt

egads

08-19-2003, 03:22 PM

I know what you mean. I wanted to but a 512Meg SD card but just could not part with >$200 for only 512Meg. I ended up buying a 1Gig CF card for $160 (after rebate). This is going into a Dell Axim, so I have the slot, but I was hoping to stick a GPS in the CF. Guess I'll go for one of the serial GPS's now.

You can bet now that I've purchased a 1Gig CF card the flash prices will drop to half of what they are now :evil:
Never fails...

SHoTTa35

08-19-2003, 04:07 PM

technical limitation? well maybe not, try physical limitation. Let's see you try fitting one more clown in that VW Bug. Getting 512MB out of something that small a couple years ago was considered impossible. Just Imagine, in 2000, a Machine with 600Mhz and 128MB of ram was considered to be the king of the block.

512MB of ram is a luxury if you ask me and commands the right to cost that much. 4GB CF card; on a PPC? I dunno but but having that much on a device that small isn't even a plus, it's more of a headache. Managing all that data can't be an easy task. If it's just like 10 or so Divx movies to watch in PocketMVP then i say no flight anywhere is that long and you'd be sleeping half way thru that anyways. MP3s, it's good to have alot with you but 48hrs of music? Still, if you ask me that's overkill as 80% of that you might listen once a year!

256MB card here and it's still not full. I have about 50 songs on it, couple videos, and other stuff which i consider useful.

Janak Parekh

08-19-2003, 04:17 PM

Don't worry too much; 1GB SD cards are on their way (I've heard reports of people beta testing them). Once they're out, you'll see 512MB start to drop.

Nevertheless, SD will always remain behind CF -- the small form-factor requires time for miniaturization to catch up.

--janak

Jason Dunn

08-19-2003, 04:19 PM

Is SD Memory technology already near the end of it's technology cycle? The reason I ask is it seems like the 512MB cards have not dropped in price like CF or even proprietary Memory Stick Cards. We also have yet to see any 1GB SD cards.

Yes, it does seem like it's slowed down, hasn't it? If you look on page six of this PDF document (http://www.symbian.com/events/devexpo00/pres-uk00/Business%20Day%201/Business1-4Matsu****a.pdf), they thought they'd be at 2 GB by 2003. We haven't even hit 1 GB yet!

It must be a technical limitation of some sort, but I'm sure they'll over come it. I hope. :wink:

trachy

08-19-2003, 04:38 PM

In the September issue of PC Magazine, Bill Howard discusses flash memory in general. He claims SD is the memory of the future, and that projections are for them to be as large 16GB by the end of 2005. I'd reference the article, but I couldn't see where they'd posted it online yet.

whydidnt

08-19-2003, 04:50 PM

If it's just like 10 or so Divx movies to watch in PocketMVP then i say no flight anywhere is that long and you'd be sleeping half way thru that anyways. MP3s, it's good to have alot with you but 48hrs of music? Still, if you ask me that's overkill as 80% of that you might listen once a year!

I guess I'm just lazy. I don't want to have to pick and chose which songs to take with me at any given time., or which programs to install/uninstall. I want to have a large selection with me at all times, plus I'd like to be able to install a large number of programs on the card. I've got a Wifi Card for my CF slot, which means I have to cram everything onto the SD card.

At least it sounds like they are still talking about improving the spec - 16 GB in two years would be awesome! :D But, it seems like of all the flash technologies, SD is evolving the slowest right now. That really seems odd to me since, it also seems to be the most prevelant.

Whydidnt

shindullin

08-19-2003, 09:26 PM

I think that the market for CF is also larger which may provide greater incentives for the memory manufacturers to put more money in CF R&D. SD is highly prevalent in PPC's but CF's are pretty popular too. Plus, CF is present in the digital photography world where more people are willing to pay big bucks for massive storage on a single card. I have a 128MB SD and a 256MB CF card on my dual slot GenioE and if I needed more I'd probably just get another card. Maybe another CF card just for music and one just for games and pictures or something like that. I wouldn't go SD bc of the cost factor which is sort of a self perpetuating circle of increased consumption lowering costs).
Also, aren't CF cards generally faster that SD cards? I remember reading something like that on the PPCT boards. So if speed is an issue bc you're launching applications off the cards or pulling up big pictures, CF may be the only way to go for some.

Excalliber

08-19-2003, 10:22 PM

I just ordered a 256 Lexar SD card rated at x32... it was $79.99, but if I want to be happy with apps on it, I decided to pay the premium...

hmmm... I thought I remember there being a limitation in SD's design that would make it stop at 4 Gb... This is from the Panasonic site: "SD Cards are now available up to 512mb with the possibility of up to 4 gigabytes in the near future."

maximus

08-20-2003, 02:27 AM

technical limitation? well maybe not, try physical limitation. Let's see you try fitting one more clown in that VW Bug. Getting 512MB out of something that small a couple years ago was considered impossible.

Well, the technology of silicon slice-n-dice is getting better by the day. Which means that in the future, the clowns will be much smaller than the present. Hence with every advancement in silicon technologies, you will be able to fit more clowns into that VW. I think the size that can be fitted into an SD card is limitless.

hollis_f

08-20-2003, 07:20 AM

512MB of ram is a luxury if you ask me and commands the right to cost that much. 4GB CF card; on a PPC? I dunno but but having that much on a device that small isn't even a plus, it's more of a headache. Managing all that data can't be an easy task. If it's just like 10 or so Divx movies to watch in PocketMVP then i say no flight anywhere is that long and you'd be sleeping half way thru that anyways. MP3s, it's good to have alot with you but 48hrs of music? Still, if you ask me that's overkill as 80% of that you might listen once a year!

256MB card here and it's still not full. I have about 50 songs on it, couple videos, and other stuff which i consider useful.
Who was it who said "Nobody could ever need more than 640kB of RAM?

I have a 1GB card that's over half-full. And it wasn't difficult - 1 video, 30 MP3s and GPS maps for the UK and a small part of Europe. When I go away next month it'll have another couple of videos (to watch when the hotel movies are too dull) and will be creaking at the seams.

Mandrake

08-20-2003, 09:31 PM

Who was it who said "Nobody could ever need more than 640kB of RAM?

Wasn't it a Mr W Gates?

nosmohtac

08-21-2003, 06:58 AM

What I would really like to know is, why isn't anyone making flash memory in the pc card format? I know that toshiba and kingston, have the pc card harddrives, but why not a 5 or 10 gig pc flash memory card?

one they would be much cheaper than cf or sd.
They would be a good boost in sales for the ipaq pc card plus sleeve for ipaqs or those cf to pc card adapters.
They would be much easier on the battery.

maybe not, :roll: Just my .02

hollis_f

08-21-2003, 07:29 AM

Abba Zabba

08-21-2003, 07:32 AM

I thought Sandisk started making 1GB SD cards :?:

nosmohtac

08-21-2003, 08:03 AM

What I would really like to know is, why isn't anyone making flash memory in the pc card format? I know that toshiba and kingston, have the pc card harddrives, but why not a 5 or 10 gig pc flash memory card?

one they would be much cheaper than cf or sd.

But not cheaper than a hard drive (by quite a large margin)
They would be a good boost in sales for the ipaq pc card plus sleeve for ipaqs or those cf to pc card adapters.

But the PC card makers don't care about the sales of those items because they don't make them. Besides the market would be tiny.

I don't know what you're basing this on, because the 1G CF card was at one time much more expensive than a microdrive, but now you can often times find a CF card cheaper than the microdrive. If you take the wafer layering technology that is being used in the SD and CF card manufacturing, and applied it to a memory card the size of a PC card, you could have 10GB without even trying hard.

I don't know, I could be wrong. I'm just saying what makes sense to me.

nosmohtac

08-21-2003, 08:12 AM

But the PC card makers don't care about the sales of those items because they don't make them. Besides the market would be tiny.

I wasn't very clear on this point. :oops: I meant that this could be something that HP could start developing. If they were the only manufacturer that had a PPC with a way to use PCMCIA cards (expansion sleeve) and they developed (or co-developed) this type of memory card, then it would be tough to beat having an iPAQ.

What's your PPC packin? Oh....15GB...give or take a few Gigs.

I know that the iPAQ is not the only PPC that can use PCMCIA cards, but the CF to PC adapter is not going to be for everyone; e.g. having the PC card stick up from your CF slot, making your device twice as long.
I also have nothing against the PCMCIA hard drives, other than sucking more power, and being more susceptible to data loss.

Sorry I should have started another thread on this.

PetiteFlower

08-21-2003, 01:17 PM

nosmohtac

08-21-2003, 09:48 PM

I know that the iPAQ is not the only PPC that can use PCMCIA cards, but the CF to PC adapter is not going to be for everyone; e.g. having the PC card stick up from your CF slot, making your device twice as long.

So instead you'd rather have a sleeve that makes your already large device twice as thick? Ew no thanks.

Not really. I don't consider the ipaq a large device. The 22xx and 19xx are very sleek and small, making my 3970 seem large in comparison.

I do consider it to be very bulky with a sleeve on it, but there are some good mods being done to reduce the bulk of the sleeve. Here's (http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/whitney-ipaq-sleeve-modifications-review.html) one way, and it still has the built in battery.

I have emailed Whitney Lubean, and he also does a different mod now, where he just uses the back of the expansion pack, and attaches the sides and front from aleather case.
Maybe too bulky for many, but it's another expansion possibility, which is, after all, the main reason that the ipaq became so popular.

maximus

08-22-2003, 02:16 AM

the CF to PC adapter is not going to be for everyone; e.g. having the PC card stick up from your CF slot, making your device twice as long.

Well, the CF PCMCIA adapter can be folded onto the back of the PPC, hence it only adds 2-3 milimeters to the thickness of the PPC.

Gremmie

08-22-2003, 03:39 AM

I guess I'm just lazy. I don't want to have to pick and chose which songs to take with me at any given time., or which programs to install/uninstall. I want to have a large selection with me at all times, plus I'd like to be able to install a large number of programs on the card. I've got a Wifi Card for my CF slot, which means I have to cram everything onto the SD card.

Same here, as soon as I don't put something on my MicroDrive is when I would want it, at that point the PDA is no longer convienent.