New Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket Loox Coming Out?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?s=7a3561bc4634fc2756c9e7135ea29fe5&threadid=830' target='_blank'>http://firstloox.org/forums/showthr...e5&threadid=830</a><br /><br /></div>Fresh from the rumours department, FirstLoox.org has posted some very exciting information about a new model of Loox that we might see. Owning two Fujitsu laptops, I'm a big fan of them as a company, but of course we have yet to see them release a Loox in North America. I hope this is the one!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/new-loox.jpg" /><br /><br />"Sources have revealed to FirstLoox.org some details of the next generation Pocket Loox 610. According to our sources there will be two versions of the new Loox 610 - one with integrated Bluetooth and one with both Bluetooth and WiFi (802.11b) built-in! Both versions will have:<br /><br />• 64MB Flashable ROM (with all spare ROM available as a user accessible LooxStore)<br />• Transflective screen<br />• PXA255 400 MHz processor<br />• Dual CF type II/SD expansion slots - both at the top of the unit (as per the iPAQ h2210)<br />• 1500mAh battery<br />• Optional 3000mAh extended battery<br />• Removeable and replaceable battery!<br />• Possibly a replaceable backup battery too<br /><br />The Bluetooth version (Pocket Loox 610 BT) will come with 64MB RAM. The dual wireless version (Pocket Loox 610 BT/WLAN) will come with 128MB RAM. The 610 BT will be approx. 205g and the 610 BT/WLAN just 197g."<br /><br />More info on FirstLoox.org!

[jpaq]

This is as close as I've seen to my absolute ideal specs. Now, how much!!!!

:multi:

[The Half-Ling]

oh that wifi and bluetooth model loox pretty nice i gotta admit...

How much is a big question...

Cheers,
Jake

[Duncan]

This is as close as I've seen to my absolute ideal specs.

Not bad are they?! I just hope FSC get the thing released in N America this time (and that they are able to meet the release deadline).... :)

[AndyD]

Looks like I'm gonna put a hold on purchasing a 2215 for now :) Hopefully, the prices are reasonable.

[easylife]

Optional 3000mAh extended battery

3000mAh? 8O I don't know much about batteries, but 3000mAh sounds like an enormous battery capacity! :D Are there any other PPCs that have more?

[WillyG]

Optional 3000mAh extended battery

3000mAh? 8O I don't know much about batteries, but 3000mAh sounds like an enormous battery capacity! :D Are there any other PPCs that have more?

Yea, its huge. You can probably use it to jumpstart your car, if its battery are flat ;)

[WillyG]

Seriously, this thing loox a bit large...
As i previously owned a Loox600 and hold the size of the direction button, and crome-plate thing around it and its two nearest buttons, of that one, up against the new one (if they are the same size), this thing is h u g e

[JvanEkris]

Well, there goes my savings account again.........

Jaap

[The Half-Ling]

ya he is right about that 3000 mah. That is a pretty good. I wouldnt mind hearing the cost though lol...

Thats a lot of wifi use off a battery relat big.

Jake

[powder2000]

Looks kind of similar to the new casio ppc released overseas a while ago. I liked the curvy look of the old loox better, made it different looxing :lol: .

[donkthemagicllama]

is it safe to say there won't be a ppc with higher res than 320x240 until the next iteration of the os (if then)?

[david291]

The Axim's extended battery is 3400 mAh. Slightly disappointed this one is only 3000.

Price is key. $400 or lower street price is required to get me interested (WiFi + extended battery + cradle). It has more horsepower and memory than I need, so that price point is unlikely.

[Foo Fighter]

The specs look fantastic, but am I the only one getting just a bit tired these clone designs? :?

Come on folks, throw me a freakin bone here. Give me something unique.

[denivan]

The Bluetooth version (Pocket Loox 610 BT) will come with 64MB RAM. The dual wireless version (Pocket Loox 610 BT/WLAN) will come with 128MB RAM. The 610 BT will be approx. 205g and the 610 BT/WLAN just 197g."


So ...
Loox + BT + 64 Mb = 205 g.
Loox + BT + Wlan + 128 Mb = 197 g.

8O can someone explain why more hardware equals less weight ?

[donkthemagicllama]

The Bluetooth version (Pocket Loox 610 BT) will come with 64MB RAM. The dual wireless version (Pocket Loox 610 BT/WLAN) will come with 128MB RAM. The 610 BT will be approx. 205g and the 610 BT/WLAN just 197g."


So ...
Loox + BT + 64 Mb = 205 g.
Loox + BT + Wlan + 128 Mb = 197 g.

8O can someone explain why more hardware equals less weight ?

Well, the memory I'm sure uses the same physical package, so no difference there...

Perhaps there's a more expensive BT+WLAN combined chip that's lighter than a cheaper BT only chip...

At any rate, I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

[petvas]

The specs are ok...
There are a couple of things that FSC hopefully should have learned by now:

Screen Sensitivity
BUGS!!!! Backlight issues...
Screen...


After owning a Pocket Loox 600 for 4 months I said to myself that I would never buy anything different from an iPaq... Of course if FSC convinces me then...who knows :wink:

[Duncan]

So ...
Loox + BT + 64 Mb = 205 g.
Loox + BT + Wlan + 128 Mb = 197 g.

can someone explain why more hardware equals less weight ?

Whoops...! :oops: It is, of course, the other way around...!

[Looxer]

Past experience proved to me that Loox 600 had too many reliability problems, switching from Loox to iPAQ made me realize the big difference in performance and stability, this is something I really appreciate in iPAQ. These new models should’ve been released earlier (if they ever gonna be released sooner), the original Loox was there in the market for too long! It’s about time to see a new version! However I am not very excited, I am rather disappointed not to see the Loox Phone device. It is a nice update, but not earth shaking. :)

[ricksfiona]

How is the BT + WLAN version different from the IPAQ 5555? IMHO, the IPAQ looks better too.

[Pocket PC Dubai]

Looks kind of similar to the new casio ppc released overseas a while ago. I liked the curvy look of the old loox better, made it different looxing :lol: .

I agree, the old Loox is more stylish! I wonder how the pocket loox will be a player in the US market when it going to be hit by the rumored iPAQ 4100 series (the one which is recently has obtained its Bluetooth Qualification) unless it is offered at a very competitive price! :wink:

[Duncan]

How is the BT + WLAN version different from the IPAQ 5555?

Slightly lighter than the naked 5555, built-in CF slot, much smaller/lighter than a 5555 with added CF sleeve, bigger battery, larger ROM (therefore bigger File Store), replaceable back-up battery (I believe).

[donkthemagicllama]

It's interesting to see CompactFlash slots becoming more common rather than less. A year ago, the PPC sites were predicting the death of CF (no links, but I seem to remember reading about it)

New iPaqs are sporting CF slots... even Sony's starting to use CF on their new camera.

Any thoughts as to why?? More peripherals (rather than just storage) available?? Cheaper price??

[moaske]

It's interesting to see CompactFlash slots becoming more common rather than less. A year ago, the PPC sites were predicting the death of CF (no links, but I seem to remember reading about it)Any thoughts as to why?? More peripherals (rather than just storage) available?? Cheaper price??
A good explanation could be that CF has a much wider bus, thus reaching much higher read/write speeds and offering more stability. As PocketPC's become more and more 'real' computers that have to read and write vast amounts of data, the CF form factor is probably the only standard that can keep up with this. And ofcourse it's cheap cheap cheap !!! :D
Actualy the CF is a downsized PCMCIA card, so you could call it the standardized PC-card peripheral port for the PocketPC that all laptop's feature right now in it's older/bigger form factor.

Just a thought... ;)

[duncan888]

The size of this new loox just looks too big, compared to Ipaq 2215, and the upcoming Mitac 558, which also has built in BT+Wifi

[David C]

If HP comes out with a 2215 with BT+wifi, the machine would get old really quick. That is, hoping that seeing wifi+BT is becoming more common, HP would have the smarts to make such a device.

[moaske]

Com'on.... we're talking Loox here
Not the ever-dominant HP's :evil:
And true; the new Mitac is a very cool device as wel :D
But having a whopping 128MB RAM and app. 40 Megs of file-store in ROM is combined with the dual slots and dual wireless is absolutely killer... I'm willing to sacrifice good loox for this functionality :D

[JvanEkris]

Well,

Personally i like the form-factor of the old Loox. It's shape fits my hand, and this brick-shaped PocketPC could be a dissapointment in that area. Also i'm a bit sceptical about the screen. Although Translective is more saturated, but it is less good in direct sunlight.......

Jaap

[altden2002]

is it safe to say there won't be a ppc with higher res than 320x240 until the next iteration of the os (if then)?

It is. Current OS does not support anything higher than that. :evil:

[jaja_75]

Loox 610 BT/WLAN ( & Mio 558 ):

. 128 Mo RAM, 64 Mo ROM (Mio 558 : 64 Mo RAM, 64 Mo ROM)
. WiFi & Bluetooth built-in (as Mio 558)
. CF & SD (as Mio 558)
. apparently only USB client (Mio 558: USB client & host)
. apparently only IrDA (Mio 558: IrDA & CIR)
. 200 g (Mio 558: 150 g ; lighter)
. 147,5 * 78 * 18,2 (Mio 558 : 124 * 72 * 15,3 ; thinner)
. PXA255 400 MHz (PXA263 400 MHz ; smaller chip, decreased power consumption)

[beq]

^ Can you add battery size comparison and also that this Loox uses replaceable?

[Christian]

I have to say that I agree that this new Loox looks considerably too large. Size has been one of my favorite attributes of my new 2210, and I doubt I would give it up for the added RAM + WiFi. Also, I agree that a future 2xxx device with WiFi would make this one look old pretty quickly. Although the large ROM file storage is nice.

[Gremmie]

I have to say that I agree that this new Loox looks considerably too large.

The dimensions are 147.5 x 78 x 18.2 mm.

147.5mm is about 5.75 inches, this is one lllloooonnnngggg device, does anyone know if this would include the antenna?

[maximus]

• 64MB Flashable ROM (with all spare ROM available as a user accessible LooxStore)


Now now, dont say 'flashable' or people will think that ROM upgrades are guaranteed.

• 1500mAh battery
• Optional 3000mAh extended battery


Fujitsu finally learned something from Dell.

• Removeable and replaceable battery!
• Possibly a replaceable backup battery too


You mean, all these time they dont have that ? 8O

[Prevost]

Well,

Personally i like the form-factor of the old Loox. It's shape fits my hand, and this brick-shaped PocketPC could be a dissapointment in that area. Also i'm a bit sceptical about the screen. Although Translective is more saturated, but it is less good in direct sunlight.......

JaapI have the same concern about sunlight usability with transflective displays.

For the moment, I'd say we'll need to wait for this technology to improve light reflection standard and in the meanwhile accept it as it is. For me outside viewability is at least as important as screen resolution, maybe more.

By the way, this thing is almost 6 inches long and a bit over 3 inches wide. That is large, and I don't think specs make up for that oversized body. I'd stay with 2210 series.

[Janak Parekh]

I have the same concern about sunlight usability with transflective displays.
While transflective isn't as "rich" as reflectives outside, it's extremely useable. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

--janak

[Pocket PC Dubai]

Maybe pictures and spec sheets alone cannot do justice to FSC’s new Loox. It must be seen in person; it must be touched. Based on the discussion here I can say that the new Loox seems to be a stunning gadget full of great features such as memory, wifi, BT and CF slot. However, as of today we anticipate Pocket PCs to be smaller and thinner, take for example the iPAQ h2210 (115.4 x 76.4 x 15.4 mm) it is a fairly thin PDA though not quite as thin as the h19xx line of iPAQs (the first iPAQ to truly challenge Palm OS devices in size, weight, and price), I would like to see the same form factor applied with the new devices that comes with groundbreaking design and engineering attributes, I believe we are not very far away from that. I will save my money for a newer PPC! :wink:

[juni]

I've sworn never to buy another Loox after all the unstability issues with the 600. I got one pretty much when they were released and just about now (after how much time and how many flash updates?) is it getting to be reasonably stable. And what is it with the 70 euro upgrade to Windows Mobile Premium price? Jeez.

FS hasn't convinced me that they can support a device and meet the demands to have something that actually works out of the box.

[maximus]

I've sworn never to buy another Loox after all the unstability issues with the 600. I got one pretty much when they were released and just about now (after how much time and how many flash updates?) is it getting to be reasonably stable. And what is it with the 70 euro upgrade to Windows Mobile Premium price? Jeez.

FS hasn't convinced me that they can support a device and meet the demands to have something that actually works out of the box.

Their laptops are nice though. Perhaps the product management of loox needs be dissolved and replaced by the laptop product management.

[hollis_f]

I've sworn never to buy another Loox after all the unstability issues with the 600. I got one pretty much when they were released and just about now (after how much time and how many flash updates?) is it getting to be reasonably stable. And what is it with the 70 euro upgrade to Windows Mobile Premium price? Jeez.

FS hasn't convinced me that they can support a device and meet the demands to have something that actually works out of the box.

Yup, FSC burned me with the Loox. The screen surface felt like jelly (jello to American friends) and had about the same sort of responsiveness. The BT implementation left lots to be desired (like the ability to ActiveSync with anything except an FSC laptop). Promised hardware add-ons remained promises. Sometimes I almost pity the person that stole it.

They'll have to have really improved if I'm gonna even look at this one.

[JvanEkris]

Maybe pictures and spec sheets alone cannot do justice to FSC’s new Loox. It must be seen in person; it must be touched. Based on the discussion here I can say that the new Loox seems to be a stunning gadget full of great features such as memory, wifi, BT and CF slot.I want to see it, before i buy it as well. On the other hand, Ipaq's becom that bulky as soon as some sleeve gets added as well, so there isn't musch of a problem there...

Siemens has improved a lot to the Loox 600 series, and their official statements indicate that they want to learn as much as possible from the 600 to copy to the 610. So probably the Loox 610 will have the same code in it (besides the WiFi bit).

Jaap

[Looxer]

I've sworn never to buy another Loox after all the unstability issues with the 600. I got one pretty much when they were released and just about now (after how much time and how many flash updates?) is it getting to be reasonably stable. And what is it with the 70 euro upgrade to Windows Mobile Premium price? Jeez.

FS hasn't convinced me that they can support a device and meet the demands to have something that actually works out of the box.

Me too! I don’t think I will ever go back to Loox, unless there are some real improvements! I am totally not satisfied with the Loox performance, and there was a time when I wanted to convert! To Palm! Lucky me I tried iPAQ and I got attached to it. :ppclove:

[Duncan]

I think, in fairness, we should remember that the Loox 600 was FSCs first Pocket PC and they have worked hard to sort out bugs/issues with it. If we were to judge FSC on the Loox 600 then should we judge Casio on the E200 (and forget the E10x), Toshiba on the e740 (and forget the e750), Compaq/HP on the 38xx (and forget the other models)? Much seems to depend on the actual manufacturers of the units (Wistron etc.)....

As for FSC support - they are offering the WM2003 upgrade to everyone, at a price comparable to that charged by other European Pocket PC companies, they have never sought to hide any issues or bugs and have worked to find solutions to them. They are by no means a company with poor support and they compare very favourably to Toshiba over the e740 and Compaq over the iPAQ 38xx (and how many swore they would never buy another iPAQ after getting burned with that one, eh?)

[juni]

They are by no means a company with poor support and they compare very favourably to Toshiba over the e740 and Compaq over the iPAQ 38xx (and how many swore they would never buy another iPAQ after getting burned with that one, eh?)

Heh, I gave my Loox to my wife and dug out my trusty old Ipaq 3650 from the closet and installed Opie on it. Never been happier - it is fast, has landscape on the fly + I already have all sleeves and gadgets for it. ;)

[Looxer]

Heh, I gave my Loox to my wife and dug out my trusty old Ipaq 3650 from the closet and installed Opie on it. Never been happier - it is fast, has landscape on the fly + I already have all sleeves and gadgets for it. ;)

That’s true! As of today Loox is still Loox 600, and FSC they must learn from hp and Toshiba if they really want to improve their Loox. The new Looxes are not released yet, maybe they carry many improvements and nice features, but as far as I know they are not innovative anyway

[hollis_f]

As for FSC support - they are offering the WM2003 upgrade to everyone, at a price comparable to that charged by other European Pocket PC companies, they have never sought to hide any issues or bugs and have worked to find solutions to them. They are by no means a company with poor support and they compare very favourably to Toshiba over the e740 and Compaq over the iPAQ 38xx (and how many swore they would never buy another iPAQ after getting burned with that one, eh?)

Yup, I said I'd never get another iPAQ after the 3850. then I saw the 3970, placed it next to my Loox and removed my wallet to buy one. The 3970 was all that the Loox promised - and more.

I really hope the new model Loox is great. All I'm saying is that FSC are gonna have a hard time persuading lots of users that we can trust them.

[petvas]

Yep, the 3970 was the perfect Pocket PC. Only the H555x surpasses it and not by far. I cannot believe that we are sold to the idea that because a company brings a new device for the first time we should be so forgiving.. If they want beta testers they can ask for it and not charge for faulty devices that do not work as intended. The 38xx iPaq had a lot oof problems but not up to the point that the device wasn't usable anymore. The Loox did have such problems:
Backlight Issue
Screen Sensitivity
Slow
Unstable
Bluetooth Implementation the worse I've seen...

[Duncan]

My 3870 did have such problems as to make it hard to use. My Loox, on the other hand, has been relatively well behaved. My colleague, who has an e740 frequently wishes he could afford to smash it with a hammer...! There are many different experiences for each Pocket PC model!

My point about the Loox 600 being the first for FSC is not to say that faults can be forgiven but simply that (and this is neither a good, nor a right thing) it is a fact that almost every company has produced a Pocket PC that has had too many issues. At least FSC have done so with their first device (so they have not had the chance to learn from mistakes) - unlike most - and at least they have shown a willingness to fix bugs/errors - unlike Toshiba's head-in-the-sand approach with the e740 or Compaq's arrogance with the e740. That doesn't make FSC saints - but it is all too easy to judge them unfairly against companies that have been at the PPC game long enough not to be making bug-ridden machines.

In truth it is a level playing field in which we can only judge each model on its own merits - past PPCs seem a poor guide to future quality...

[Pixelnose]

They are by no means a company with poor support and they compare very favourably to Toshiba over the e740 and Compaq over the iPAQ 38xx (and how many swore they would never buy another iPAQ after getting burned with that one, eh?)

Heh, I gave my Loox to my wife and dug out my trusty old Ipaq 3650 from the closet and installed Opie on it. Never been happier - it is fast, has landscape on the fly + I already have all sleeves and gadgets for it. ;)

And the wife will take great pleasure in throwing it against a concrete wall when she can finally replace this one. Of the Jornada 680, 568, Palm IIIc, Tungsten, Clie 770c, Psion Revo and iPaq 3650 - this is the sorriest PDA I have ever used. Nothing works as it should. I made a list of things that don't work but it was moderated since I hit a raw nerve about a certain place. Doesn't make it any less true though. FSC is gonna have an uphill battle with this Cassiopeia knock-off. 0X

[maximus]

My point about the Loox 600 being the first for FSC is not to say that faults can be forgiven but simply that (and this is neither a good, nor a right thing) it is a fact that almost every company has produced a Pocket PC that has had too many issues.

psst. psst. DELL. :rock on dude!:

[Pixelnose]

Yeah, I'd trust Dell more than I would FSC myself at this point. And while it's Dell's first time out, I can't say the same for FSC. What about the Siemens x45? IMO that should count.

[Duncan]

Yeah, I'd trust Dell more than I would FSC myself at this point. And while it's Dell's first time out, I can't say the same for FSC. What about the Siemens x45? IMO that should count.

I did say 'almost'. Dell seem to be an exception so far - but then let's see what the 'X7' or 'X3' turn out like shall we? The whole point I'm making is that one PPC (for in truth that is all Dell have so far) is no indicator future PPC quality. I would say that is pretty much inarguable!

As for the SX45 - I'm afraid that was nothing to do with Fujitsu-Siemens who merely brought a combined Casio/Siemens (not actually the same people - though related - as Fujitsu-Siemens) project into their portfolio in lieu of having an in-house PDA to offer (and somewhat reluctantly at that).

[Pocket PC Dubai]

Duncan,

We need to focus on the new products FSC will offer; this thread is drifting into a debate on why we should buy Pocket Loox ever again. Clearly, FSC will have tough time winning customer trust again and that’s – to me – convincing. We don’t have to sympathize with FSC or blame them for such a terrible experience with Loox. It just happened to be a bad marketing or project plan, and that could occur in any large organization in the world but that doesn’t mean customer expectations are not affected. Did it ever occur to you how did they recover from that?! As a matter of a fact I don’t blame previous Loox owners (and there are many of them out there) to become Loox haters – if I may put it this way –, because that’s an obvious and comprehensible backlash you would expect from any customer. An average customer will buy a PPC and may complain, simply you need to listen, not to justify that it is okay to accept these deficiencies just because an iPAQ or Toshiba were once horrible PPCs or Dell is just newly born in PPC world and they need to prove with their new devices. Do you know how much those companies paid to recover from that? Do you know what they did to regain their reputation? With all due respect, based on your comments and specially that you have a Loox enthusiast site you seem to be biased.

[Duncan]

With all due respect, based on your comments and specially that you have a Loox enthusiast site you seem to be biased.

Spy Eagle,

If I am biased it is not so strong that I don't openly admit to the weaknesses of FSC's first offering. Clearly they need to do better next time. I did say, very clearly, that none of the companies have an excuse for releasing PPCs with issues. I don't recall asking for anyone to sympathise with them - nor do I blame those who had a bad experience for saying so!

You say 'We need to focus on the new products FSC will offer' - that has been precisely my point. Rightly or wrongly past experience with a company's PPC cannot be a factor in future PPC purchasing decisions... cf. those Toshiba e740 owners who have reluctantly decided that only the e750 offers the feature set they want, or those of us who swore never again would we buy Compaq after the 38xx series and then did.
models).

In the interests of balance, however, it should be stressed that I and many others have had a positive experience with the Loox and I know of more than a few who are thinking of buying the Loox 610 on the strength of their experiences with the Loox 600 (though some have the obvious caveat of wanting a better Bluetooth implementation next time! - myself included). You may choose to take that with a dash of scepticism - but I run two Pocket PCs (my second is an iPAQ 2210) and if I did not see value in the Loox, or find it supportable, it would be easy enough to pass on the website to someone else - my loyalty to the Loox is based solely on experience not blind bias!

My point again (and here I think I bow out of this) - we need to judge the Loox 610 on its own merits alone - as we had to do with the Toshiba e750 or the iPAQ 39xx.

[maximus]

Lets hope that the upcoming loox 610 is not just another cosmetic upgrade to the faulty 600. You will have hard time convincing people by saying ... well, it is a second product of FS .. :wink:

[petvas]

Competition is good, it drives innovation!!!! Let's hope that the Pocket Loox 610 will make HP produce even better iPaqs!!!! 8)

[dinoalbert]

Ive been using the Loox600 for over a year now and I have so many frustrations with it....especially its speed (as compared to my old Jornada568!) the screen and its sensitivity. Ive been waiting for a new PocketPC to replace it until I found this new Ipaq2210...wow same as the Loox! Dual memory slots is really a turn on for me! I cant believe iPaq would release such feature on their PPCs. Its small but it has everything I want...and the screen is the reason why I envy iPaq users. I am now planning to buy the iPaq2210

Now here comes a new Loox. You see, I was very proud of my Loox600 stylish design, weight and size...but with the upcoming Loox, what happened? Im just hoping now that the speed and screen sensitivity issue is addressed in this new model. I thought the new Loox will let me forget about the iPaq2210 and stay loyal with Fujitsu-Siemens. Hmmm I dont think so :(