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View Full Version : Can u use a single CF card in PDA and camera?


Prevost
08-03-2003, 08:08 AM
The question is, is it possible to take a CF card I use for keeping files in the PDA out of it for some shots with a digital camera?

Also, which format is better for PocketPC file storage: CF or SD? I won't need any wireless card here, just storage.

BTW, and in spite of all the ranting, if I can manage to convince architects of the convenience of having construction plans in the hand at everytime, soon I could become a PocketPC user! Hello everybody... :mrgreen:

Kati Compton
08-03-2003, 08:11 AM
I don't know about your PPC/camera setup, but it worked for me when I did it with my Axim and a Canon-something. A20, I think? I can't remember the model.

I don't see why it *wouldn't* work, though I would suggest testing it with CF data that you could easily replace/reconstruct.

As for CF vs. SD, that actually depends on how you plan to use the device, and what other compatible devices you have. Some people like to use SD for memory so that they can use the CF slot of accessories like WiFi. But I use a CF card for memory because I could get more storage per $.

bmhome1
08-03-2003, 08:34 AM
DON'T alter images on the card or format the card using the PPC. Only add, delete or format cards using the camera they will be used in. Differenct cameras use FAT16 or FAT12 with specific cluster and sector schemes. Changing the card's files out of the camera only invites possible or eventual card corruption, losing your photos or rendering the card unuseable at all. It happens all too frequently. Check Storage and Media forums at dpreview.com or robgailbrath.com for examples.

Anthony Caruana
08-03-2003, 10:57 AM
I've played with a few combos.

I have a Kodak DC3200 camera and have used the CF card from it in both my iPAQ 3850 with CF sleeve and in my iPAQ 2210. No issues.

I have also used my SD card in the DC3200 using the CF 4 in 1 adapter from Semsons (www.semsons.com). I have been able to use the SD card in the camera and then use it in my iPAQ. I did this because my SD card is bigger than any of the CF cards I currently have

Regards[/url]

Chadness
08-03-2003, 04:34 PM
I have a Canon A40 Powershot camera, which takes a CF card. So, I was wondering the same thing about the differences between a CF card and an SD card, since I just ordered a Toshiba e755, which has a slot for both types of media.

The guy at Best Buy I talked to took a CF card, put a file on it with a PDA, then took it over to the digital imaging counter and took some pictures with it. Seemed to work alright on both accounts.

He suggested for me to buy CF cards for the PPC, since I already had a camera that used CF cards as the storage medium. He said there's a negligible difference in speed between the CF and the SD card on the PPC, so it really wouldn't matter.

On top of that, the CF and the SD cards were the same price. So, I bought the CF cards instead. If I have a problem, I'll be sure to mention it here, though.

Prevost
08-03-2003, 11:33 PM
I don't know about your PPC/camera setup, but it worked for me when I did it with my Axim and a Canon-something. A20, I think? I can't remember the model.Well, I still do not own a PPC, but since as I told before I will probably need one, I would like an expansion card in CF format to use it also in my Canon A60 camera (the card included is only 16MB and also deadly slow)
DON'T alter images on the card or format the card using the PPC. Only add, delete or format cards using the camera they will be used in. Differenct cameras use FAT16 or FAT12 with specific cluster and sector schemes. Changing the card's files out of the camera only invites possible or eventual card corruption, losing your photos or rendering the card unuseable at all. It happens all too frequently. Check Storage and Media forums at dpreview.com or robgailbrath.com for examples.I feel I need to ask, why is it needed to format a new card?

What I want to do is to keep some files for recurrent use (or to save new ones) for working in the PPC and also being able to take it out and use the same card in the camera without losing the other files. I do not want to view or edit photos in the PPC.

hollis_f
08-04-2003, 07:38 AM
What I want to do is to keep some files for recurrent use (or to save new ones) for working in the PPC and also being able to take it out and use the same card in the camera without losing the other files. I do not want to view or edit photos in the PPC.
I've done exactly this with Canon, Nikon and Casio cameras. Each of those will require its own file structure. As long as you don'y play around with that you can copy other files to and from the PPC with no problem.

Then you'll probably find yourself doing what I've done. You soon realise that you need more storage (no matter how large a card you get). I started with a 32MB card that I used in my Psion and my (first) Canon. Then I bought a 64MB card that lived in the Psion and the 32MB card was for the camera. Then I bought another 64MB for the camera. Then 256MB for my iPAQ, Then....

Suffice to say - I know have a 1GB card in the iPAQ, 256MB in one camera, 2x64MB cards for the other camera and a 256MB card in my MP3 Player. There are also another couple of 64MB, a 32 MB, 1 15MB and three 8MB cards lying around the place. Each of the cards either came with a device or was the most I could afford at the time.

Prevost
08-04-2003, 02:01 PM
I intend to start with a 128MB Lexar 12x CF, to use it in my camera since I am going to travel soon. Back home I could use it in the PDA and sometimes in the camera. For my job needs, the supplied CF in the camera is fine.

But there is now a question: since you say each device (cameras for this instance) will have its own file structure, are there kind of "sectors" in the memory card reserved for each device, each one with its own file structure, so you are unable to fill the card beyond the limits of each "sector"?

hollis_f
08-04-2003, 07:48 PM
But there is now a question: since you say each device (cameras for this instance) will have its own file structure, are there kind of "sectors" in the memory card reserved for each device, each one with its own file structure, so you are unable to fill the card beyond the limits of each "sector"?No, not at all. The camera will create a folder structure in which it stores pix and info. But these are just ordinary folders. There's no restrictions on how much data your store in the camera's folders and how much you store elsewhere.

Prevost
08-04-2003, 08:27 PM
Thanks, I am clear now.

Does today's PocketPC support the claimed 4X or 12X or anything X writing speed claimed by Lexar or does it work only with certain cameras?

Alicatt
08-04-2003, 08:34 PM
It works fine with my Sony DCR-TRV620 camcorder too, as long as I format the memorysticks in the camera first. I can write pictures to the memorystick with the PC and get the camera to show them, but you have to keep them in the right format or they don't show properly in the camcorder.

hollis_f
08-05-2003, 07:19 AM
Thanks, I am clear now.

Does today's PocketPC support the claimed 4X or 12X or anything X writing speed claimed by Lexar or does it work only with certain cameras?The PPC will support any CF card that will work in any camera, AFAIK. I still have great doubts about Lexar's speed branding.

Here's a good article about CF cards with speed comparisons. (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/mediacompare/)

bmhome1
08-05-2003, 07:05 PM
There is a noticeable write-to-card and buffer cleared for another photo speed decrease even when switching from my Lexar 12X to a Lexar 1OX card. Not a huge amount, but I could tell which one was switched blindfolded. And going from 12X immediately to a 4X Lexar, a 5 year old would notice the slow-down.

Lexar's speed ratings are simply a grading system to assign the card's writing MB/per seconds capability. They are too well respected in the professional photographer market to play with bogus speed claims. Guess who buys those high-priced, high-speed rated cards? And not because they are suckers for glitzy advertising. Because they need to have their camera ready to shoot as fast as money can buy, and what ever really works.

Actually, there is a levelling off of ever faster speed cards now because the pro camera's buffers are greatly increasing in size, decreasing the importance for card's writing speed.

But still more important for consumer cameras (with small buffers) as their available high quality file sizes continue to grow.

AS far as PPC's, I find much less noticeable differences between 12X to 1OX, but 12X is still definitely speedier than 4X.

This is based on extensive use of CF cards, both as a pro photographer and an owner of an iPaq 3955 who wants best performance with it. As a photographer shooting many thousands of digital images, I find the real day-to-day experiences far out-weight the chart-based, number crunching tests performed in a lab (such as the dpreview's and his conclusions particularly).

hollis_f
08-05-2003, 07:28 PM
Lexar's speed ratings are simply a grading system to assign the card's writing MB/per seconds capability. They are too well respected in the professional photographer market to play with bogus speed claims.
So you're saying that a x12 card is definitely 3 three times as fast as a x4 card? Because that's not my experience.

However, personal impressions are notoriously unreliable. So let's look at some benchmarks (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-6111).

Ooh look!

40x card - write speed: 1265 k/s
32x card - write speed: 1274 k/s
24x card - write speed: 1180 k/s
12x card - write speed: 1067 k/s
4x card - write speed: 1012 k/s

bmhome1
08-06-2003, 04:48 AM
No Hollis, you jump to your own conclusions. I only said what I said. Anything not said was very intentionally so. I know very well the peril of arm-chair chart browsers more interested in the inspection of numerical data than actually getting one's hands soiled USING the product being discussed.

I saw your selected posted data two years ago. It still makes me smile. Like when you see the silly conclusions Consumer Reports comes to using faulty test procedures that makes very distinctly separated products appear unremarkable and equal.

BTW, what "experience" have you had with Lexar cards? I shot 16,000 shots on my arsenal of Lexar cards the past four weeks. About 75,000 the past two years. That's what my "impressions" of speed are based on. And yours is from what exactly? Not that it matters, of course.

hollis_f
08-06-2003, 07:37 AM
No Hollis, you jump to your own conclusions. I only said what I said.
And what you said was ... "They are too well respected in the professional photographer market to play with bogus speed claims". Which suggests to me that you believe that a x12 card is three times faster than a x4 card - otherwise Lexar's claims about relative speeds would be bogus.

Now, my experience with Lexar's cards (although not as extensive as yours) gave me the impression that these speed claims were not justified when it came to real-life use. I also tried a few measurements, which backed up my impressions.

I didn't bother collating all my data, but others have. That's why I posted the data I did (although I'm confused - how could you have seen this data two years ago? Lexar only released the x40 cards in 2003??).

But this is real data, measured by a real person, duplicating real usage. Obviously it's totally useless and I should ignore it in favour of your extensive experience.

Kati Compton
08-06-2003, 04:12 PM
Please try to tone it down a bit...

bmhome1
08-06-2003, 07:55 PM
Kati,

My entire history here has always been one of constructive and informative posts. I do not engage in hostile and personal attacks ever. This is the first time I have been the focus if this individual who has a long history of that very thing ever since I have been a poster here. I will simply ignore any provocation from him ever again.

Kati Compton
08-06-2003, 10:12 PM
I wasn't berating, just warning, and not to anyone specific. Just looked like soon it might get out of control. No worries.