Dell Axim 2003 Patch Available

[Ed Hansberry]

Dell has released the patch for the 2003 devices. This should fix the slowdowns that have been reported. It is just over 29MB, so get your broadband ready. This will not install on a 2002 device, so don't try. Don't reply telling you've hacked it either so it will install on a 2002 device. We don't support stolen software. :D <br /><br /><a href="https://support.dell.com/filelib/download.aspx?FileID=83897&c=us&l=en&s=gen&Category=0&OS=PPC&OSL=EN&SvcTag=&SysID=PDA_AXIM_X5&DeviceID=5288&Type=DRVR&ReleaseID=R64365">You can download here</a>.<br /><br /><b>Update:</b> No you can't. It seems it has been pulled temporarily. :? Just subscribe to this thread. I am sure one of our faithful readers will reply when it is back up.<br /><br /><b>Update 2:</b> Here is the official word from Dell, according to one of our members, on why the patch was pulled.<br />• First, nothing is wrong with the fix itself. It accomplishes what we wanted. <i>(So, if you've applied it, you are good to go.)</i><br />• Unfortunately, we are getting reports that some people with PPC02 have discovered a way to hack into the fix and obtain an unlicensed upgrade to PPC03.<br />• We are pulling the fix temporarily and will provide a more targeted distribution via of it to the customers who were truly affected by our PPC03 performance issue. As planned, we will begin proactively mailing a CD version of the fix beginning within two to three weeks.<br /><br />:roll: Takes a few jerks to ruin it for the rest of us.

[T-Will]

So the 2003 update isn't out yet for 2002 devices?

[Ed Hansberry]

So the 2003 update isn't out yet for 2002 devices?
Nope. That CD won't be available until Aug. or even early Sept. That is totally different. That will have the final code on it so I suspect any 2002-2003 CD's they have had printed to this date are in the dumpster by now since it presumably contained the defective firmware.

[kagayaki1]

Don't reply telling you've hacked it either so it will install on a 2002 device. We don't support stolen software. :D

Has this been a problem lately?

[T-Will]

DOH! Guess my roomate will be waiting for a while for the upgrade.

[Ed Hansberry]

Don't reply telling you've hacked it either so it will install on a 2002 device. We don't support stolen software. :D

Has this been a problem lately?
Yes, which is why I posted the comment. Ok, no more discussion on that issue. This is about the upgrade. I am really interested in hearing from 2003 Axim owners that apply this. :mrgreen:

[Thefo]

Update Posted by: [AximSiteAdmin] on 07-30-2003 07:27 PM
Because of the flaw with this patch. I was notified that the patch would be removed from the FTP server. I am awaiting an official announcement in writing now.





I just saw this over at AximSite....looks like Dell is pulling the patch :huh:

[dudeski]

Official word on Axim SiteOfficial Word from Dell Officials:
--First, nothing is wrong with the fix itself. It accomplishes what we wanted.
--Unfortunately, we are getting reports that some people with PPC02 have discovered a way to hack into the fix and obtain an unlicensed upgrade to PPC03.
--We are pulling the fix temporarily and will provide a more targeted distribution via of it to the customers who were truly affected by our PPC03 performance issue. As planned, we will begin proactively mailing a CD version of the fix beginning within two to three weeks.

[Kurt Hunciker]

I received an e-mail from Dell today informing me that my order for the Axim 2003 operating system upgrade CD has been delayed "until on or before 9/10/93." :cry:

This is consistent with Ed Hansberry's prior post. :way to go:

[The Half-Ling]

HAHAHA Dell Pulled a Compaq/HP...

The ol' Patch Pulling Scam ;)

Jake-

[Macguy59]

So much for all the DELL back slapping. :roll:

[GoldKey]

Wonder how they detected so quickly that it had been hacked? I bet they only shipped a somewhat small number of PPC 2003 devices and within a short time period they had more downloads than they should have for all the effected devices.

[TawnerX]

well, there goes 2k3 for X5 in Kazaa.

[Jonathon Watkins]

So much for all the DELL back slapping. :roll:

Why? Just because a few spoiled it for the rest does not mean that Dell should get blamed. If you paid for it - you will get it - just slower than it could have been due to the thoughtlessness of a minority. :|

[lmtuxinc]

Why? Just because a few spoiled it for the rest does not mean that Dell should get blamed. If you paid for it - you will get it - just slower than it could have been due to the thoughtlessness of a minority. :|

I disagree, it is entirely Dell's fault for not letting people pay and legally download the fixed WM2003 Rom for the X5. :evil: I ordered the upgrade as soon as it was available on June 26th and now i have to wait to the middle of September ! I cant blame people for doing what they can to fix it. :twisted:

It is faster to sell your old 2002 Axim on Ebay and order a new 2003 one from dell than it will be to get this stupid upgrade CD for which they are charging $40. :really mad:

[drop]

This really wasn't Dell's fault. There were plenty of "I had already paid for it so why can't I hack" attitude :roll: . Well, I had to admit it was entertaining to watch. I knew there was BAD, BAD thing going on, but I couldn't help following that thread like the latest thriller.

Those that successfully updated to A05 were raving out it. So we know the patch works. Way to go, Dell.

[dh]

I wish I had downloaded the file when I had the chance. I've ordered the upgrade so I would feel OK with actually getting it.

Why on Earth is Dell going through all the expense of making dumb CDs when the download obviously works. Mine is ordered with free shipping, it just makes no sense to me.

If I find a cracked copy I will be happy to use it and just put the CD on the shelf when it arrives.

[Ed Hansberry]

Why? Just because a few spoiled it for the rest does not mean that Dell should get blamed. If you paid for it - you will get it - just slower than it could have been due to the thoughtlessness of a minority. :|

I disagree, it is entirely Dell's fault for not letting people pay and legally download the fixed WM2003 Rom for the X5. :evil: I ordered the upgrade as soon as it was available on June 26th and now i have to wait to the middle of September ! I cant blame people for doing what they can to fix it. :twisted:
This has nothing to do with the upgrade. This is the patch for purchased 2003 devices. There is no charge for it. The purchased upgrade can just now get going since they have the final ROM ready to burn on CD and start shipping. I can blame people for doing what they can to "fix" it. My car has a headlight out but the auto store is closed. I should just break a window and go in and get a headlight because I can't wait until it reopens. :roll:

Theft is theft. No matter how you rationalize it.

[sgyee]

This has nothing to do with the upgrade. This is the patch for purchased 2003 devices. There is no charge for it. The purchased upgrade can just now get going since they have the final ROM ready to burn on CD and start shipping. I can blame people for doing what they can to "fix" it. My car has a headlight out but the auto store is closed. I should just break a window and go in and get a headlight because I can't wait until it reopens. :roll:

Theft is theft. No matter how you rationalize it.

So...you're saying that if I had a Dell Axim with PPC2002, I have a paid invoice showing that I purchased the upgrade, and I downloaded the WM2003 ROM patch image, that I'm a thief? Interesting viewpoint....

[Ed Hansberry]

So...you're saying that if I had a Dell Axim with PPC2002, I have a paid invoice showing that I purchased the upgrade, and I downloaded the WM2003 ROM patch image, that I'm a thief? Interesting viewpoint....
Technically, yes. The EULA with the patch is not the same as the EULA for the upgrade. It is also a violation of the DMCA to hack the patch so it works with an unintended device.

From a practial standpoint though, it is a distinction without a difference. You have paid for it. I don't think Dell is pulling this because they are afraid paid upgraders are going to jump the gun. :D

[isilver]

I have 2 comments on the issue. The first one is a little sour but touche to the people who cracked the path. It's impresive to find that people are able to take software that they have never seen before and crack it in such a short while. It really ensures quality products. I only wish these same hackers could have used there time a little more productivly and found why the PPC 2003 had a slow down.

The second comment goes to Dell. The patch was only out for a few hours and somehow they learnt that someone has hacked into it. Back when there web site was reporting the wrong price for the Dell Axim's It took Dell a few days to correct it. And then it took a few more days for a notice to be sent out telling current purchasers about the glitch.

[entropy1980]

It is also a violation of the DMCA to hack the patch so it works with an unintended device.
Since when has anybody on this site been a big proponent of the DMCA? As long as there is software there will be hackers and warez it's just a fact accept it and move on. :roll:

[WyattEarp]

I don't know how long the patch was up for but if it was only for a few hours then either Dell is keeping an eye on various websites, has insider information or their own people figured out how to do it. In either case they had to protect their investment. It was only meant for WM2003 devices not PPC2002 devices anyway. It is unfortunate though that everyone has to now wait even longer to get an upgrade CD in the mail.

[Ed Hansberry]

It is also a violation of the DMCA to hack the patch so it works with an unintended device.
Since when has anybody on this site been a big proponent of the DMCA? As long as there is software there will be hackers and warez it's just a fact accept it and move on. :roll:
There are a lot of laws I am not a fan of. I don't run out and break them though.

[Jason Dunn]

To all the people who think it's cool to hack a patch and get something you didn't pay for:

:twak:

Why do people think that just because they CAN do something they SHOULD do something?

Way to screw it up for everyone else! :evil:

[Jason Dunn]

Since when has anybody on this site been a big proponent of the DMCA? As long as there is software there will be hackers and warez it's just a fact accept it and move on. :roll:

Yeah, but in this case it's different. Think of what would happen if Microsoft pulled Windows XP from the store shelves once they realized people were hacking the product activation? In this case the people hacking the patch are causing everyone else to not get their legitimate upgrade (which I paid for and am awaiting).

[Paragon]

So, once again the honest guy gets the shaft because a bunch of fools, and idiots feel they have the God given right to take what isn't their's to begin with. Every time something like this happens it gives more fuel to those who want tighter DRM.

Are you really all that much further ahead in life because you got 30 bucks worth of software without payng or it?

There could be a good discussion going on here about what differences this fix made, but now that will be delayed because so few were able to get their hands on it......Good going guys!......Really well done! :roll:

Dave

[entropy1980]

Since when has anybody on this site been a big proponent of the DMCA? As long as there is software there will be hackers and warez it's just a fact accept it and move on. :roll:

Yeah, but in this case it's different. Think of what would happen if Microsoft pulled Windows XP from the store shelves once they realized people were hacking the product activation? In this case the people hacking the patch are causing everyone else to not get their legitimate upgrade (which I paid for and am awaiting).

But that's my point they didn't pull XP when it did happen!! They know a certain percentage of people will not abide by the rules(heck that's why they added Product Activation) I am not supporting people doing it, but just saying it's going to happen.

[Ed Hansberry]

I am not supporting people doing it, but just saying it's going to happen.
So? People are going to continue to steal, pirate, create viruses, worms and trojans, vandalize, . Does that make [i]any of it OK? No.

[Janak Parekh]

But that's my point they didn't pull XP when it did happen!! They know a certain percentage of people will not abide by the rules(heck that's why they added Product Activation) I am not supporting people doing it, but just saying it's going to happen.
They took countermeasures. XP SP1 didn't install with "hacked" setups or known publicly-used keys. The question is, what kind of countermeasures could Dell take to prevent unlicensed use yet keep licensed users working? They tried one, it didn't work. I agree they should try to fix it for real and republish it, but the hacking community might be too resourceful for that. ;)

--janak

[ctmagnus]

Drifting into the off-topic area again:

It is also a violation of the DMCA to hack the patch so it works with an unintended device.

So if the RIAA [insert dirty word here]s decide that they don't want you to listen to music on your preferred device (which happens to not be a CD player) then you can't "hack" your recently-purchased copy-controlled CD in order to extract the music to listen to on your preferred device?

Point of this post: This is why I'm glad I'm not a lawyer. Too many double standards.

[Steven Cedrone]

:nonono:

For me, it always comes down to this: No matter how you justify it, wrong is wrong (something I keep telling my kids)...

It's really a shame that Dell had to resort to this...

Steve

[lmtuxinc]

This has nothing to do with the upgrade. This is the patch for purchased 2003 devices. There is no charge for it. The purchased upgrade can just now get going since they have the final ROM ready to burn on CD and start shipping. I can blame people for doing what they can to "fix" it. My car has a headlight out but the auto store is closed. I should just break a window and go in and get a headlight because I can't wait until it reopens. :roll:

My point was that dell should have provided a download option of the new WM2003 rom (either A04 or A05) for those who have paid for it, instead of insisting on sending it out on CD.

When Microsoft puts out a large patch or service pack, it can be downloaded or ordered on CD, imagine what would happen if they made everybody pay for the windows updates and sevice packs and shipped them only out on CD's !

And you dont have to wait two months for them to throw out all the old headlights and make new ones just to get a new headlight like you do with these CD's, they could have just changed the installer for the new A05 rom and sell it as a download. And what about the people who live in countries where thay dont sell the axim and therefore the upgrade CD, what are they supposed to do?

As for the theft of the rom, what makes anybody think that people arent going to "pass around" the official CD version once it comes out. It's going to happen, its not right, but thats not going to stop them.

[PhMajerus]

Dell seems to have a strange idea of how to prevent people from installing 2003 using the patch:
Dell: Upgrade for Dell Axim X5, ENG (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?TabPage=overview&sku=310-4214&spagenum=1&category_id=5538&keyword=&c=us&l=en&cs=19&mnf=&prst=&prEn d=&mnfsku=&orderby=&searchtype=&pageb4search=&page=productlisting.aspx&instock=&refurbished=) (as linked from Microsoft Windows Mobile Web site).

I don't believe making it difficult for their customers to actually buy the upgrade will help in preventing them from using hacked patches ... did the legitimate upgrade order page really need to be pulled or moved without redirection ?

[Ed Hansberry]

So if the RIAA [insert dirty word here]s decide that they don't want you to listen to music on your preferred device (which happens to not be a CD player) then you can't "hack" your recently-purchased copy-controlled CD in order to extract the music to listen to on your preferred device?The RIAA is violating the fair use doctrine in that case.

But that doesn't matter. I won't buy a copy protected CD.

[Ed Hansberry]

My point was that dell should have provided a download option of the new WM2003 rom (either A04 or A05) for those who have paid for it, instead of insisting on sending it out on CD.

When Microsoft puts out a large patch or service pack, it can be downloaded or ordered on CD, imagine what would happen if they made everybody pay for the windows updates and sevice packs and shipped thm out on CD's !Two totally different things. MS never allows you to download a copy of the upgraded OS. You must buy Windows XP Upgrade for example.

Dell is giving the patch away for free, and no one said it would be on a CD. They said they would be contacting end users directly, so it may be password protected downloads or something similar.

[The Half-Ling]

This happened with HP/Compaq awhile back, there 37xx series ROM updates for ppc2002 and 36xx 2002 rom updates allowed users to update their iPAQ's without buying the update...It was a little tricky that the AXIM one maybe but the basis is stripping bytes of the rom image identifing the device usable in the update :twisted: so any ppc can be updated...I hope that isn't revealing to much :devilboy:

Jake-

[guinness]

I'm pretty sure that Dell pulling the patch has less to do with people hacking the 2003 rom than the fact that a lot of real 2003 Axim users couldn't get the update to even install coreectly. There were many theads on Dell's forum about people couldn't get past th 01/13 counter on the ROM updater, it's just Dell covering their butts again. The patch was posted on a publically available ftp server, what did Dell really expect to happen? That they could post a FULL rom image and someone wouldn't have figured out how to hack the image file?

Dell should've offered a secure way to download the PPC 2003 update, at least for most users, as they keep getting deleys due to having to press more cd's.

[huangzhinong]

I'm pretty sure that Dell pulling the patch has less to do with people hacking the 2003 rom than the fact that a lot of real 2003 Axim users couldn't get the update to even install coreectly. There were many theads on Dell's forum about people couldn't get past th 01/13 counter on the ROM updater, it's just Dell covering their butts again. The patch was posted on a publically available ftp server, what did Dell really expect to happen? That they could post a FULL rom image and someone wouldn't have figured out how to hack the image file?

Dell should've offered a secure way to download the PPC 2003 update, at least for most users, as they keep getting deleys due to having to press more cd's.

I definitely support you. I don't think the hacker is the real reason, although the upgrade may have been cracked. Dell only found a reason, a good reason to hide the truth that another bug exists in their upgrade program. They may need another 2 weeks to figure out why a lot of people can't flash the ROM smoothly.

Just a guess.

[Bob Anderson]

Wait a minute... do we know for a fact that Dell had to pay Microsoft for the PPC2003 software for each upgraded device?

I thought I recalled seeing something that said there was no charge for the software, and that it was up to the OEM's to determine what to do for upgrades...

If that's the case, then I think it's hilarious that people hacked the Dell upgrade ROM and used it on PPC2002 devices. It's kinda like David and Goliath if you ask me. If the OEMs get something for free, then turn around and charge for it, I have to say I'm not terribly upset that they got beat at their own game!

Score one for the hackers!

If in fact, Dell does have to pay for each PPC upgrade, well, then shame on the hackers, but Dell still over-reacted in my opinion.

Now, the other interesting part to all of this is the delay in the real upgrades... If hackers were really able to get the ROM update to work, why, why, why, do people have to wait until September to get a legitimate CD? It almost makes me think Dell wants to cash in on the individuals who always want the state of the art... and they fully know those people will just buy a new device with the new OS. Corporations and businesses won't buy the latest and greatest things until they've been on the market for a while, hence the upgrades with a cost! in a couple months!!

There's something "dirty" about this whole process. If the consumers really knew the intricacies of the deals between MSFT and the OEMs we'd probably all roll our eyes and shudder at the thought of us supporting it all. :roll: But here's to Pocket PC nirvana anyway!!! :lol:

[kagayaki1]

In talking point number 2, Dell states that they were "getting reports." Has anyone stopped to question where these reports came from? Perhaps they were observing enthusiast sites, but if that were true, they'd listen to more of our requests (such as the screen cover, which I don't support, but still like to indulge the rest of you). Where did the mystery messages come from?

Perhaps they already knew it was crackable and this whole thing was like cutting costs for the testing department. I know, it's a real conspiracy theory (which I also don't subscribe to much), but it's at least academic for us to question more than simply the end result.

[huangzhinong]

From Aximsite:
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18273&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

This fix is flaw and the tech support email from dell stated "Please do not install the file that you have downloaded. New
updated file is currently under development. please wait for
10 days until the new file is uploaded to the dell downloads
file library. we thank you for your cooperation."


Come on, dell, find a better excuse next time.

Another good news here:

There is still hope for the upgrade A04>A05
I just got off the phone with Dell. (I actually talked to someone that had a clue of what's been going on)

(From Tech support)
They told me that the "official" patch that was posted on thier site for approx. 1 hour was faulty. (Duh) The good news is that they already know what the problem is and have the fix for the patch in the works. It was fauly update .EXE files that for some reason didn't like all the hardware. The new update should be on their site by no later than Monday August 4th 2003.

So, anyone that already installed the R64365.exe do not need to worry. It was the correct ROM update, just a bad installer.
For those of us (Me included) that had the hang on the 1/13 issue, this will be resolved.

They are prolly going to try to make it more "hack" proof too, but I don't have a lot of faith that they can stop those kinda people.

Just FYI
-Kensupen

[entropy1980]

It is also a violation of the DMCA to hack the patch so it works with an unintended device.
Since when has anybody on this site been a big proponent of the DMCA? As long as there is software there will be hackers and warez it's just a fact accept it and move on. :roll:
There are a lot of laws I am not a fan of. I don't run out and break them though.
Some people aren't in the US and thus are not under it's lawful jurisdiction. I am not advocating breaking the law just stating it happens, and that your naive to believe it won't happen or that anyone is above having their software "hacked".

[Skitals]

Well I installed Windows XP Media Center Edition on my pc... didnt hack it, or illegally activate it or anything. The operating system comes with a 30 day 'grace' period... after that it just nags you to activate. At first it was like every 5 minutes. Now about once every other hour it pops up, and I just click the X.

Now would THAT be illegal? :lol:

[ethancaine]

Some people aren't in the US and thus are not under it's lawful jurisdiction. I am not advocating breaking the law just stating it happens, and that your naive to believe it won't happen or that anyone is above having their software "hacked".

You may want to check on that because many countries, including the US, Great Britain, Japan and France, have very explicit regulations on what can and cannot enter and exit their countries. Software, hardware, warez... any way you go, you should be sure that neither the country nor the OEM/copyright holder has a problem with you taking that software across political boundries.

We in the US military run into this problem often when trying to order from comercial websites. Between the shipping problems (many companies use FedEx or UPS exclusively, which often is not available overseas) and the copyright issues, we find we are very limited in our selection. For example: Hewlett Packard/Compaq will not ship the 2215 to us.

(It's just another way American capitalists are forgetting those who protect their right to capitalize.)

:soapbox:

[dh]

Sod it. I think I'm going to get an Ipaq instead.

[Ed Hansberry]

I am not advocating breaking the law just stating it happens, and that your naive to believe it won't happen or that anyone is above having their software "hacked".

Check out non sequitur (http://faculty.fullerton.edu/cibrahim/fallacies.html).

[mr_Ray]

Sod it. I think I'm going to get an Ipaq instead.
Join the club, it's the new "in-thing" for Axim owners everywhere :D

As for the fix, am I the only person thinking the release went something like this?

Engineer: Dude, this fix isn't ready yet. Give us more time.

Marketeer: I don't care if it works, we just need to release something so we look all brilliant and stuff for fixing the problems.

Engineer: But to intelligent people we'll look stupid for releasing something that most people can't actually install, and they get to hard reset their machine for the pleasure of it. That's immoral!

Marketeer: No, that's marketing. Give me the d*mn thing so we can release it now! Then we can release the proper fix when you've bothered to do it so we look twice as good. "Wow, two fixes in as many months! Kudos to Dell!" they'll say.

Engineer: I quit! I want to work for someone with more ethics than you. I hear Satan has a few vacancies.

[Marc Zimmermann]

Dell only found a reason, a good reason to hide the truth that another bug exists in their upgrade program. They may need another 2 weeks to figure out why a lot of people can't flash the ROM smoothly.

Just a guess.
And a bad one that is, indeed. Remember that Dell has alsready released ROM updates for Pocket PC 2002. There have not been reports about a significant number of failures, at least not to the number of failed iPAQ updates.

[Marc Zimmermann]

Wait a minute... do we know for a fact that Dell had to pay Microsoft for the PPC2003 software for each upgraded device?

I thought I recalled seeing something that said there was no charge for the software, and that it was up to the OEM's to determine what to do for upgrades...
The free upgrades are only for those who purchased their device on May 23 and later. All others need to pay as they are not covered by the "technology warranty" program.

[aroma]

Wait a minute... do we know for a fact that Dell had to pay Microsoft for the PPC2003 software for each upgraded device?

I thought I recalled seeing something that said there was no charge for the software, and that it was up to the OEM's to determine what to do for upgrades...

If that's the case, then I think it's hilarious that people hacked the Dell upgrade ROM and used it on PPC2002 devices. It's kinda like David and Goliath if you ask me. If the OEMs get something for free, then turn around and charge for it, I have to say I'm not terribly upset that they got beat at their own game!

Dell does have to pay a license fee to MS for the CE / PPC software. (Although it is a relatively small fee.) But even if they didn't pay any free to MS, it's not like they're just turning around and selling the same product to the end user. They is quite a bit of work and development that has to go into getting the embeded OS to run on their specific platforms. Shouldn't they be able to charge for that development and testing? Again... stealing is stealing... no matter how you try to justify it! If someone is offering a product, and you think its too expensive or they're are ripping you off, that doesn't give you the right to steal it; you just simply don't buy it.

- Aaron

[saabcaptain]

I do think this is Dell's problem and all the praise should stop. While I admire the fact they quickly discovered the problem with slow down on the Axim and WM2003 their resulting soultion, a nearly 2 month or more wait to get a fix for those who purchased a Axim unit with 2003 is unacceptable. While it is a crying shame that some must crack the patch posted to steal 2003 for their 2002 machines Dell should either A) have made the patch harder or impossible to crack or B) eat the losses in revenue that occur to satisify those customers who own a 2003 unit that is flawed.

Right now Dell is going to deliver fixes in the 2-3 month time frame from the first 2003 units shipping. For the moment and for the forseable future this makes their units less desirable that competitors units. Further those who ordered upgrades are having to wait longer and longer for the upgrade.

[PetiteFlower]

First of all--Even if Dell DID get the upgrade from MS for free(which is unlikely), god FORBID that they run a business and try to make money! Your mechanic (unless he's a friend) doesn't charge you his cost on parts for your car, he charges you the retail value, that's not unethical, that's good business sense. If he charges a HUGE markup then it's unethical but a normal retail profit margin is ok/expected. $30 is not a lot for an OS upgrade.

Anyway look at it this way--you're still most likely going to get your upgrades before the IPAQ users get theirs.....

[Ed Hansberry]

I do think this is Dell's problem and all the praise should stop. While I admire the fact they quickly discovered the problem with slow down on the Axim and WM2003 their resulting soultion, a nearly 2 month or more wait to get a fix for those who purchased a Axim unit with 2003 is unacceptable.
They discovered the problem in early-mid July. They fixed it within 2 weeks of determining it was the firmware. 2 weeks, 2 months, same difference if you are ranting eh? Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. :wink:

[mr_Ray]

First of all--Even if Dell DID get the upgrade from MS for free(which is unlikely), god FORBID that they run a business and try to make money! Your mechanic (unless he's a friend) doesn't charge you his cost on parts for your car, he charges you the retail value, that's not unethical, that's good business sense. If he charges a HUGE markup then it's unethical but a normal retail profit margin is ok/expected. $30 is not a lot for an OS upgrade.

Anyway look at it this way--you're still most likely going to get your upgrades before the IPAQ users get theirs.....

The issue here is Axim 2002 users waiting to get the 2003 upgrade, it's the Axim 2003 users waiting for Dell to provide them with a correctly working version of the product they thought they were ordering!
In that respect, HP customers are way ahead of Dell customers - all the 2003 units they've purchased currently work.

Oh, and it'll still be September or later before Axim2002 owners get a chance of getting the upgrade CDs anyway.

I do agree though with Dell being able to charge what they want for the upgrade - I'd be happy with them charging a few hundred for it, perhaps even as much as the Axim itself. They can charge what they want, people don't have to buy. Too many people seem to forget that one of the cornerstones of capitalism is "lack of ethics". good luck to them.

[mr_Ray]

I do think this is Dell's problem and all the praise should stop. While I admire the fact they quickly discovered the problem with slow down on the Axim and WM2003 their resulting soultion, a nearly 2 month or more wait to get a fix for those who purchased a Axim unit with 2003 is unacceptable.
They discovered the problem in early-mid July. They fixed it within 2 weeks of determining it was the firmware. 2 weeks, 2 months, same difference if you are ranting eh? Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. :wink:

Here's one back atcha. :wink:
Choose one of the two possible reasons for this whole mess:

1 - Dell never found the problem - it's poor customers found it. Dell eventually listened to them when the media got involved.

2 - Dell knew that they put out a faulty release in order to seem like they were on the ball with an immediate upgrade avaiable. No "finding" as they always knew it was there. (personally I believe this one to be the case)

In no possible truth in this whole episode can anyone reasonably claim that Dell have done well. In no way can Dell claim to have found the problem. From what I hear, they're yet to provide a working fix, too (currrent "fix" doesn't work for majority of users and has been withdrawn allegedly because of piracy).

Yeah, well don, Dell, I love you!! :mrgreen:

[Ed Hansberry]

Here's one back atcha. :wink:
Choose one of the two possible reasons for this whole mess:

1 - Dell never found the problem - it's poor customers found it. Dell eventually listened to them when the media got involved.
Except Dell said they were looking into it before CNet ran the first article.2 - Dell knew that they put out a faulty release in order to seem like they were on the ball with an immediate upgrade avaiable. No "finding" as they always knew it was there. (personally I believe this one to be the case)Yeah, that is the most likely. They were looking to foster ill will and wanted to shut down a production plant. Pssst. Watch out for that guy behind the grassy knoll over there! :lol:

[mr_Ray]

Here's one back atcha. :wink:
Choose one of the two possible reasons for this whole mess:

1 - Dell never found the problem - it's poor customers found it. Dell eventually listened to them when the media got involved.
Except Dell said they were looking into it before CNet ran the first article.2 - Dell knew that they put out a faulty release in order to seem like they were on the ball with an immediate upgrade avaiable. No "finding" as they always knew it was there. (personally I believe this one to be the case)Yeah, that is the most likely. They were looking to foster ill will and wanted to shut down a production plant. Pssst. Watch out for that guy behind the grassy knoll over there! :lol:

Maybe you were treated special, but for the rest of us right up until a little while after the cnet article, tech support were still acting all shocked if you dared to suggest that your PPC wasn't 100% perfect. The register and the inquirer were also informde by Dell that there had been no complains.
Lying scum! :mrgreen:

And don't worry about that guy behind the grassy knoll, I've had my eye on him for some time now... :snipersmile:

[Bob Anderson]

Wait a minute... do we know for a fact that Dell had to pay Microsoft for the PPC2003 software for each upgraded device?

I thought I recalled seeing something that said there was no charge for the software, and that it was up to the OEM's to determine what to do for upgrades...

If that's the case, then I think it's hilarious that people hacked the Dell upgrade ROM and used it on PPC2002 devices. It's kinda like David and Goliath if you ask me. If the OEMs get something for free, then turn around and charge for it, I have to say I'm not terribly upset that they got beat at their own game!

Dell does have to pay a license fee to MS for the CE / PPC software. (Although it is a relatively small fee.) But even if they didn't pay any free to MS, it's not like they're just turning around and selling the same product to the end user. They is quite a bit of work and development that has to go into getting the embeded OS to run on their specific platforms. Shouldn't they be able to charge for that development and testing? Again... stealing is stealing... no matter how you try to justify it! If someone is offering a product, and you think its too expensive or they're are ripping you off, that doesn't give you the right to steal it; you just simply don't buy it.

- Aaron

My whole point here is to point out a problem that the PPC community is going to be facing, rather than to imply that hacking the upgrade for a PPC2002 device is OK. (Although, admittedly, I admire the tenacity and technical skills hackers continue to demonstrate in the tech world.)

The reality is that having the manufacturer become a key part of the OS AND the hardware is like suggesting that GM should be a tire manufacturer for their vehicles. Sounds good, until you realize their core competency is not making tires. Stick to your field of expertise for the good of everyone.

Message to MSFT: Figure out a way to let hardware manufacturers innovate, build, and support the HARDWARE. Then you specialize in the SOFTWARE/FIRMWARE.

Maybe then we can resolve a couple of nagging issues that OEMs keep haunting us with:

1) No upgrades (Thanks Toshiba)
2) Delay ... Delay ... Delay in getting upgrades!

DISCLAIMER: Even with all my griping here, I am a very happy owner of an iPaq 3635 and 5455. I don't own or plan to own a Toshiba or Dell PDA, but do like to point out how their missteps could cause grief for the PPC community in general.

[Jason Dunn]

My point was that dell should have provided a download option of the new WM2003 rom (either A04 or A05) for those who have paid for it, instead of insisting on sending it out on CD.

Sure, they SHOULD have, but they didn't - but just because someone doesn't do what you want doesn't give you the right to take it from them. Although you'd think it would be easy for Dell, do they even have any other purely digital item for sale? People forget that the big companies are still new at ESD (electronic software distribution). Microsoft's FIRST digital sell-through product was the recent Digital Media Plus! pack, and even then it was only sold in the US. I know it seems strange to us that these large companies can't do what little shareware authors do every day, but the ESD world is completely new to companies who are used to selling a physical product.

It still doesn't make it right to hack a product because you're impatient.

[entropy1980]

I am not advocating breaking the law just stating it happens, and that your naive to believe it won't happen or that anyone is above having their software "hacked".

Check out non sequitur (http://faculty.fullerton.edu/cibrahim/fallacies.html).
Check out reality (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary).

[mr_Ray]

My whole point here is to point out a problem that the PPC community is going to be facing, rather than to imply that hacking the upgrade for a PPC2002 device is OK. (Although, admittedly, I admire the tenacity and technical skills hackers continue to demonstrate in the tech world.)

The reality is that having the manufacturer become a key part of the OS AND the hardware is like suggesting that GM should be a tire manufacturer for their vehicles. Sounds good, until you realize their core competency is not making tires. Stick to your field of expertise for the good of everyone.

Message to MSFT: Figure out a way to let hardware manufacturers innovate, build, and support the HARDWARE. Then you specialize in the SOFTWARE/FIRMWARE.

Maybe then we can resolve a couple of nagging issues that OEMs keep haunting us with:

1) No upgrades (Thanks Toshiba)
2) Delay ... Delay ... Delay in getting upgrades!

DISCLAIMER: Even with all my griping here, I am a very happy owner of an iPaq 3635 and 5455. I don't own or plan to own a Toshiba or Dell PDA, but do like to point out how their missteps could cause grief for the PPC community in general.

Considering that the contents of the rom is (yeah, I know I'm simplifying here) essentially OS + h/w drivers + oem customisations, I don't think that the current way of things is expecting much of the oem at all. If Dell/Toshiba/whoever want to use unusual (ie - cheap) h/w that is problematic to get working, they should have to incur the cost of getting it to work properly, not Microsoft.

Although I agree MS could go a bit further to making things easier - 100% driver/application compatibility between OS versions would be nice.

Also bear in mind the back and forth that could ensue if MS had responsibility for the firmware side of things - MS says blame the OEM, the OEM says blame MS. I certainly don't want that to happen!

Maybe if we just imposed enormous fines for releasing s**t products, to force them to properly test before releasing would be the best option.

[Jason Dunn]

If the OEMs get something for free, then turn around and charge for it, I have to say I'm not terribly upset that they got beat at their own game!

But what about the time Dell software engineers put into tweaking & testing the OS for their hardware? Or the costs involved with making the CD, distributing them, billing, customer service, etc.? Nothing is truly free - someone is always paying for it. Even if Dell got the software for free (which I highly doubt), there's always a cost involved somewhere. I don't think this justifies the hacking.

[mr_Ray]

My point was that dell should have provided a download option of the new WM2003 rom (either A04 or A05) for those who have paid for it, instead of insisting on sending it out on CD.

Sure, they SHOULD have, but they didn't - but just because someone doesn't do what you want doesn't give you the right to take it from them. Although you'd think it would be easy for Dell, do they even have any other purely digital item for sale? People forget that the big companies are still new at ESD (electronic software distribution). Microsoft's FIRST digital sell-through product was the recent Digital Media Plus! pack, and even then it was only sold in the US. I know it seems strange to us that these large companies can't do what little shareware authors do every day, but the ESD world is completely new to companies who are used to selling a physical product.

It still doesn't make it right to hack a product because you're impatient.

That's a fair point about the e-distribution, but then they've all had many years of experience doing so with patches, driver updates, etc. But then again I guess that doesn't really have any need for protection. Maybe they should offer the WM2003 upgrade through handango, then? :wink:

I agree 100% about those hacking the upgrade for their 2002 Axims - they don't have any right to do so and are in no way entitled to it no matter what they may think. although Dell were pretty naive.

[Jason Dunn]

Well I installed Windows XP Media Center Edition on my pc... didnt hack it, or illegally activate it or anything.

The only place you could get that, and the only way it's distributed AFAIK, is through MSDN. It's not a retail product you can buy, so unless you're an MSDN subscriber, I don't think it's legal. :roll:

[aroma]

The reality is that having the manufacturer become a key part of the OS AND the hardware is like suggesting that GM should be a tire manufacturer for their vehicles. Sounds good, until you realize their core competency is not making tires. Stick to your field of expertise for the good of everyone.

Message to MSFT: Figure out a way to let hardware manufacturers innovate, build, and support the HARDWARE. Then you specialize in the SOFTWARE/FIRMWARE.

In the embedded word (CE/PPC is an embeded OS) manufacturers are always going to have to do work in getting an embedded OS to work with their devices. Your comparison above is irrevelent. MS is not asking the OEMs to manufacture the OS. They are providing the OEMs with a core OS, then the OEMss have to tweek the OS and add the appropriate components and drivers to accomplish their desired end result. It is impoosible for MS to offer a Win CE build to cover every possible scenario and hardware platform in which it is used.

[dangerwit]

:soapbox:
Everyone seems to think hacking is bad and taboo, but everyone does it in their own way. People modify and trick-out their cars, improve lawnmowers, build their own PC's, etc.

I'm posting because I resent the implication that "hacking is fundamentally and morally wrong" attitude when we do it on other things on a daily basis.

If I buy a '02 car, then get an '03 engine and put it in the old car, how am I "ruining" the opportunity to buy the '03 engine for other people?

What Dell did by pulling the patch is wrong -- blame the consumer. :twak: All they had to [rightfully] say was, "You paid $ for it, then hacked it to work on your old handheld. Bless you and congratulations. However, we cannot provide support."

I believe that once I buy "it", I can do whatever I want with "it". It's MINE. If I change it, it simply becomes 'unsupportable' (and shouldn't be resold under the same name). But I shouldn't be prevented from 'opening it up' as though I were a 2-year-old.

What I don't agree with is stealing -- if you try it and like it, you buy it. If someone illegally obtained the PPC upgrade, hacked it, then used it without paying $$$, that's theft, plain and simple. If you have a $200 PPC, you can shell out $20 or so for the upgrade.

*Phil

[AZMark]

Yea!

Like he said. You buy a sandwich at Subway and you take a bite out of it, don't you?

Hack that sandwich. Hacking sandwiches rules!!!!!!

Who gives these people keyboards?

[Ed Hansberry]

:soapbox:
Everyone seems to think hacking is bad and taboo, but everyone does it in their own way. People modify and trick-out their cars, improve lawnmowers, build their own PC's, etc.

I'm posting because I resent the implication that "hacking is fundamentally and morally wrong" attitude when we do it on other things on a daily basis.
Come on. Everyone knows we are talking about hacking in the sense to get something for nothing. Tricking out your car isn't illegal unless you used a 5 finger discount or are violating emission laws or other taking your vehicle out of saftey compliance. Totally different.

The patch is to fix existing 2003 Axims. Not for upgrading. Plain and simple.

[entropy1980]

The patch is to fix existing 2003 Axims. Not for upgrading. Plain and simple.

Do you think it's wrong if someone had purchased the upgrade and just didn't want to wait for Dell to get the CD's out? I for one don't think that in that case it is wrong what so ever, you have already paid for the update.

[Ed Hansberry]

Do you think it's wrong if someone had purchased the upgrade and just didn't want to wait for Dell to get the CD's out? I for one don't think that in that case it is wrong what so ever, you have already paid for the update.

I already answered that (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=144654#144654). What you never answered is your flawed logic in claiming I am naive. Instead, you went with another bit of logical fallacy called a red herring, or perhaps simply an ad hominem.

[entropy1980]

There was no "flawed logic"just ignorance on your part. The fact is as long as there has been software there has been people illegally hacking, cracking, and distributing. That's proof by example not a red herring , not ad hominem. Instead of sending me links to dictionaries maybe you should point me to some examples of software that doesn't get cracked or maybe a universal agreement by everyone in the world that says "there shall be no more hacked software" believing that people aren't going to hack software is naive or maybe just short-sighted.

[huangzhinong]

You guys are all correct. Let's see the fact: Almost all softwares got cracked, you can download full copy or warez in edonkey anytime(from advanced windows server edition to xcpusclar). You won't do that because you are a honest good guy, but it doesn't mean other people won't.

I never saw a software development got stopped because of software cracking.

Dell of course know the FULL UPGRADE IMAGE will got cracked sooner or later. Let's back to this topic. Is dell honest in this issue since they know the real reason to pull out the fix but still used another irrelevant excuse?

[guinness]

Another question: Can the PPC OS only be updated through a complete flash of the ROM image and not just through a small patch (several MB's). Because if this was possible, Dell could've avoided the hacking mess altogether (altough it provided them with another good excuse to why something didn't work).

[huangzhinong]

Another question: Can the PPC OS only be updated through a complete flash of the ROM image and not just through a small patch (several MB's). Because if this was possible, Dell could've avoided the hacking mess altogether (altough it provided them with another good excuse to why something didn't work).

Yes, of course, it is the EXCUSE dell has applied in this issue.

[Ed Hansberry]

There was no "flawed logic"just ignorance on your part.
And there is your flawed logic. No where did I say there wouldn't be hacking. Expressing disappointment or disgust at it doesn't mean I don't think it will happen.

[dh]

Well, a Dell Dude just called and left a message that my upgrade CD will be shipped on August 27th.

I don't recall seeing a charge from Dell on my credit card bill, so I'm sure I haven't paid for it yet. I still wish I'd downloaded the file while I had the chance.

[entropy1980]

There was no "flawed logic"just ignorance on your part.
And there is your flawed logic. No where did I say there wouldn't be hacking. Expressing disappointment or disgust at it doesn't mean I don't think it will happen.
And there is yours :roll: , I said You (and anyone for that matter) would be naive to think it wouldn't get hacked it was a statement not an arguement. I wasn't saying anything about what you were saying other than it was no suprise it got hacked. I was merely commenting on the fact no one should be suprised. Enough :nonono: I think we have dragged it OT far enough and we aren't going to see eye to eye (except I think we both agree suppporting warez isn't a good thing) :D

[Ed Hansberry]

And there is yours :roll: , I said You (and anyone for that matter) would be naive to think it wouldn't get hacked it was a statement not an arguement.
Except that isn't what you said.I am not advocating breaking the law just stating it happens, and that your naive to believe it won't happen or that anyone is above having their software "hacked".
Since I assume you meant to say "you're naive" and not "your naive" (indicating it is my naive to own, which makes no sense) you essentially said I am naive and not would be naive. That is what got my dander up. :takethat:

[PetiteFlower]

Dell(and almost all internet companies) charges when they ship, not before. Charging your card when the merchendise is still in their custody and not on its way to you is unethical and *possibly* illegal. So that's why you haven't been charged yet.

And the main reason *I* think it was wrong for people who ordered the update but haven't gotten it yet to hack the upgrade is because Dell knows how many CDs they shipped, and they know how many people downloaded the patch. Obviously the second number is a lot bigger then the first. They can't tell the difference between someone who ordered the CD but hasn't gotten it and someone who's just trying to get something for nothing; even if you're entitled to the software it LOOKS like you're not and therefor you helped ruin it for the people who the patch was intended for (people who received and installed the CD already).

And also because you technically have NOT paid for the upgrade yet, you just ordered it, they don't charge till they ship, and you could cancel your order before then and still scam them. Even if you don't intend to, you still COULD so it's understandable that Dell would want to discourage this practice.

[Ed Hansberry]

Dell(and almost all internet companies) charges when they ship, not before. Charging your card when the merchendise is still in their custody and not on its way to you is unethical and *possibly* illegal. So that's why you haven't been charged yet.
Excellent point. No one has paid for this yet. :way to go:

[entropy1980]

And there is yours :roll: , I said You (and anyone for that matter) would be naive to think it wouldn't get hacked it was a statement not an arguement.
Except that isn't what you said.I am not advocating breaking the law just stating it happens, and that your naive to believe it won't happen or that anyone is above having their software "hacked".
Since I assume you meant to say "you're naive" and not "your naive" (indicating it is my naive to own, which makes no sense) you essentially said I am naive and not would be naive. That is what got my dander up. :takethat: :oops: woops I could see how that could get you uppity got to watch my words... (they make sense in my head I swear!) Well anyway enough is enough let's try to get thread back on track if there is any hope for that!

[dh]

I hear you PF but a lot of people are saying that they feel entitled to use the 03 upgrade on their 02 devices because they claim to have paid for the upgrade.

I'm sure that most, if not all, are in the same position as I am, ie provided CC number to Dell knowing it will be charged on shippping.

I'm sure Microsoft can't be too impressed with the way their OEMs have screwed up the WM2003 introduction and hacked ( :D) off so many end users.

The only happy 03 customers must be those who bought new Ipaqs from HP and a lot of those are not exactly jumping for joy either.

[entropy1980]

Dell(and almost all internet companies) charges when they ship, not before. Charging your card when the merchendise is still in their custody and not on its way to you is unethical and *possibly* illegal. So that's why you haven't been charged yet.

And the main reason *I* think it was wrong for people who ordered the update but haven't gotten it yet to hack the upgrade is because Dell knows how many CDs they shipped, and they know how many people downloaded the patch. Obviously the second number is a lot bigger then the first. They can't tell the difference between someone who ordered the CD but hasn't gotten it and someone who's just trying to get something for nothing; even if you're entitled to the software it LOOKS like you're not and therefor you helped ruin it for the people who the patch was intended for (people who received and installed the CD already).

And also because you technically have NOT paid for the upgrade yet, you just ordered it, they don't charge till they ship, and you could cancel your order before then and still scam them. Even if you don't intend to, you still COULD so it's understandable that Dell would want to discourage this practice.
Yeah but they should have targeted the update to only those who had already recieved shipment of a 2003 Axim (not on a public FTP for everybody to have at it), it's not that hard to setup an FTP site that only allows authorized users to access(ie those who have a slow 2003 Axim), although doesn't stop people from re-distributing the download after the fact.

[Ed Hansberry]

Well anyway enough is enough let's try to get thread back on track if there is any hope for that! :beer:

[Ed Hansberry]

Yeah but they should have targeted the update to only those who had already recieved shipment of a 2003 Axim (not on a public FTP for everybody to have at it), it's not that hard to setup an FTP site that only allows authorized users to access(ie those who have a slow 2003 Axim), although doesn't stop people from re-distributing the download after the fact.
That is what they are going to do, at least according to the comments from those that have talked to Dell. It is a pain though. Somehow Compaq provided 2002 ROM updates for 3600's that are on the public site that can't be applied to non-upgraded 3600's.

The targeted update is a pain for Dell and the end user, especially for end users that didn't buy directly from Dell - gifts, from employers, ebay, etc.

[entropy1980]

Yeah but they should have targeted the update to only those who had already recieved shipment of a 2003 Axim (not on a public FTP for everybody to have at it), it's not that hard to setup an FTP site that only allows authorized users to access(ie those who have a slow 2003 Axim), although doesn't stop people from re-distributing the download after the fact.
That is what they are going to do, at least according to the comments from those that have talked to Dell. It is a pain though. Somehow Compaq provided 2002 ROM updates for 3600's that are on the public site that can't be applied to non-upgraded 3600's.

The targeted update is a pain for Dell and the end user, especially for end users that didn't buy directly from Dell - gifts, from employers, ebay, etc.They have a list of every 2003 Axim that shipped merely need to setup a FTP site have the authentication be the SN....1 time use you get 1 download. Keeps people a little more honest and isn't a huge headache to setup.

[guinness]

Dell has all the users Serice Tags, with the Axim's original configurations, it would've been wiser for Dell to have the upgrade path setup that way then posting the fix on a public server.

Have the users sign into their account, and based on their service tag, the appropriate updates will listed.

I don't see what would be so hard in doing that, but hopefully Dell will learn from these mistakes.

[Ed Hansberry]

I don't see what would be so hard in doing that, but hopefully Dell will learn from these mistakes.
Agreed. Cut them a bit of slack. This has never been an issue with them before. No harm in 2002 ROM updates as those were free. All BIOS updates and driver patches are also free. Even OS upgrades and Office upgrades were free to qualified buyers, but via CD only.

This is a unique product in Dell's line. I guess they will have to learn how to handle this better because it doesn't fit into any other distribution model they have.

[ctmagnus]

Check out reality (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary).

From your link:

No arguments in request

:rotfl:

[Kati Compton]

Check out reality (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary).

From your link:

No arguments in request

:rotfl:
I think that's a hint that the argument ended. ;)

[entropy1980]

Check out reality (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary).

From your link:

No arguments in request

:rotfl:

Dang I am good! :drinking:

[Macguy59]

I do think this is Dell's problem and all the praise should stop. While I admire the fact they quickly discovered the problem with slow down on the Axim and WM2003 their resulting soultion, a nearly 2 month or more wait to get a fix for those who purchased a Axim unit with 2003 is unacceptable.
They discovered the problem in early-mid July. They fixed it within 2 weeks of determining it was the firmware. 2 weeks, 2 months, same difference if you are ranting eh? Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. :wink:

Except that they haven't fixed it yet :wink: Nevermind that the problem shouldn't have existed in the first place :wink:

[Macguy59]

Dell(and almost all internet companies) charges when they ship, not before. Charging your card when the merchendise is still in their custody and not on its way to you is unethical and *possibly* illegal. So that's why you haven't been charged yet.
Excellent point. No one has paid for this yet. :way to go:

I think DELL has found their new spokesperson :lol:

[mr_Ray]

Dell(and almost all internet companies) charges when they ship, not before. Charging your card when the merchendise is still in their custody and not on its way to you is unethical and *possibly* illegal. So that's why you haven't been charged yet.
Excellent point. No one has paid for this yet. :way to go:

I think DELL has found their new spokesperson :lol:

The way I've personally been treated (and others) by Dell tech support and customer care these past few weeks, I think that a certain Iraqi Information Minister should be their new spokesperson.

"There are no bugs in the new Axim!!"
"We will release a fix this Friday!"
"We will release a patch on Wednesday"
"We will release a patch on Thursday"
"There is no Axim!"
8O

[Macguy59]

I think DELL has found their new spokesperson :lol:[/quote]

The way I've personally been treated (and others) by Dell tech support and customer care these past few weeks, I think that a certain Iraqi Information Minister should be their new spokesperson.

"There are no bugs in the new Axim!!"
"We will release a fix this Friday!"
"We will release a patch on Wednesday"
"We will release a patch on Thursday"
"There is no Axim!"
8O[/quote]

There is no spoon :drool:

[PetiteFlower]

I'm not necessarily pro-Dell(though as a company I like them very much), I'm just anti-whiner, and I think most of the people kvetching in this thread have unreasonable/unrealistic expectations of them. Getting upset because something is not living up to your inflated expectations is, IMO, whining. Having realistic expectations, and being flexible/understanding if something goes wrong with them, is mature. Obviously there is a point where you can say that a company was completely wrong and unprofessional and should never be dealt with again, but Dell has hardly reached that point. Did they make a few mistakes? Yeah, but are they doing a reasonable job at fixing the situation so everyone gets their working upgrades as soon as possible? Yes! Perhaps they could stand to make some improvements, but one certainly can't say that they did the worst job possible either; for a company that has never dealt with this kind of product/upgrade before, I think they're doing a pretty damn good job.

:twak: Now quit whining!

[qmrq]

Ehm. Couldn't device serial numbers be used for verification?

[dh]

One thing that seems odd to me with the Dell situation is the delay with the upgrades for '02 users.

The other OEMs are using WM2003 in new models so I can understand that there might be a bit of a delay in preparing the upgrade for older models.

Since Dell only has one hardware model to worry about, the same ROM version works in every Axim.

There is no reason why the upgrade for the PPC2002 customers should not be available as soon as the '03 patch is ready.

The having to wait for a CD is the most annoying part of this whole thing.

[Jason Dunn]

The having to wait for a CD is the most annoying part of this whole thing.

You know, I remember a time, years ago, when people actually had patience. What's happening to us as a society where EVERYTHING has to happen RIGHT NOW. Why can't people be patient? You know it's coming, and it's not like your Axim broke the day 2003 was announced. :wink:

[Bob Anderson]

The having to wait for a CD is the most annoying part of this whole thing.

You know, I remember a time, years ago, when people actually had patience. What's happening to us as a society where EVERYTHING has to happen RIGHT NOW. Why can't people be patient? You know it's coming, and it's not like your Axim broke the day 2003 was announced. :wink:

That's a good point... but don't blame the consumers... blame the manufacturers... they tell us they are going to do upgrades, first a small delay, then a big delay, then not a complete package. They hype the products under development (not openly... but intentionally nonetheless) and finally, they (particularly in software) tend to tell us that what we find as problems are really features, and that the new version (due out next quarter) will fix that problem. So who wouldn't be IMPATIENT?

Why don't MSFT and the manufacturers work together to release a coordinated roll-out? So that everything is ready to go... at the same time? They could do wonders for the PPC community AND their customer relations... Here's why they don't...

Manufacturers want us to buy right now... and waiting for an upgrade is one way to get some consumers to downplay the whole upgrade issue, and in turn, the early adopters will just plunk out the cash to buy a new device.

If this wasn't the "plan" then why wouldn't the manufacturers take care of exisiting customers first; that is, they could devote energy to release the updates for their loyal customers AND then release new products?

(Hint... the reason is that customer loyalty isn't as valuable as new sales!)

The reason we are in this position is due to the marketing/sales gurus exerting way too much influence in the corporate strategy these companies follow. The quality of products and the timing of customer service issues can be traced to this phenomenon. Don't try and blame the consumers for reacting to the marketplace the marketing gurus created for them.

[qmrq]

The having to wait for a CD is the most annoying part of this whole thing.

You know, I remember a time, years ago, when people actually had patience. What's happening to us as a society where EVERYTHING has to happen RIGHT NOW. Why can't people be patient? You know it's coming, and it's not like your Axim broke the day 2003 was announced. :wink:

Too much internet.

[Jason Dunn]

Too much internet.

I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with you before. 8O :lol:

[Shrink]

I was inadvertently in the middle of the fiasco over at Aximsite but am not going to get into a discussion related to whether what we did was right or wrong. The three or four of us, in a single thread, just were curious as to whether it would work, or could work, on Axims with PPC 2002. That said, the data collected so far from people who upgraded A04 roms to A05 reveal that over Thirty five percent of the upgrade attempts were unsuccessful because of a problem with the installer not functioning properly. For those people who successfully flashed from A04 to A05, it was fine, for the others, the installs were stalled during the rom copy process and they were left having to hard reset their devices. They reported that Dell Tech couldn't figure out why it was happening and a number of them called in.

It is my belief that Dell, very smartly, withdrew the file from their ftp site because of the problems with the file. To obscure that, they also intelligently cited the "hacking" of the file as reason for pulling it.

Again, rightly or wrongly, no harm was intended by the few of us discovering the hack and my apologies to those individuals who have been affected by the whole fiasco. :?

[dwildone]

Too much internet.

I've tried hard to keep out of this whole discussion b/c I don't have an Axim, but I have to agree with Jason and qmrq. We have become so impatient as a society that there are actually people justifying theft because a company does not provide an instant upgrade (not ROM revison or bug fix but an OS Upgrade). I may be wrong, but I don't remember Dell advertising that all Axims that were shipped with PPC 2002 would be eligible for lifetime (or any for that matter) OS upgrades. Nevermind the fact that they have to spend time (and therefore money) trying to prevent people from stealing (you can call it what you like) an Upgrade from a ROM update for a product that came with the new OS.

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of listening to all the complaining :boohoo: . Just my .02 though.

[PetiteFlower]

No one expects to be able to download, say, the upgrade from Win98 -> WinXP, do they? Of course not, they have to get a CD. This is no different.

[jeff]

The having to wait for a CD is the most annoying part of this whole thing.

You know, I remember a time, years ago, when people actually had patience. What's happening to us as a society where EVERYTHING has to happen RIGHT NOW. Why can't people be patient? You know it's coming, and it's not like your Axim broke the day 2003 was announced. :wink:

That's a really easy thing to say when you've had a 2215 weeks before they were available to the general public. There are some Axim owners out there who would really like to play with the new OS, but can't justify buying a whole new Pocket PC. And why do they want to get the OS so badly? I'd guess the huge amount of coverage it got on this site was the main factor. All those pages of benchmarks showing how much faster PPC 2003 is, the stories about people switching over, and Ed's series of posts about neat things he's found in the upgrade would make anyone with an older Pocket PC feel they're being left behind. So don't go telling people to be patient out of one side of your mouth while hyping all the great things they're missing out on out of the other side.

No one expects to be able to download, say, the upgrade from Win98 -> WinXP, do they? Of course not, they have to get a CD. This is no different.

It's completely different. You don't put the CD into your Pocket PC to install the upgrade; it's done through a computer. Why does the media used to get the installer to the computer matter? And it's a matter of 20-30 MB versus 500 - 600 MB. Big difference.

Jeff

[jeffmd]

It's completely different. You don't put the CD into your Pocket PC to install the upgrade; it's done through a computer. Why does the media used to get the installer to the computer matter? And it's a matter of 20-30 MB versus 500 - 600 MB. Big difference.


The cd format is being used because it is a physicle form of copy protection, not because of it's file size capabilities. It is harder for a cracker to get ahold of the disc then to download it.

[Jason Dunn]

That's a really easy thing to say when you've had a 2215 weeks before they were available to the general public.

Well, for what it's worth, the 2215 is the FIRST Pocket PC that I've ever received before the general public. I normally don't get things until much, much later - if ever. Most of the OEMs ignore me (other than HP and Samsung), and I don't normally get new stuff. Heck, it took me 6+ months to get my first Xscale Pocket PC while everyone was talking about it. ;-)

And remember that I'm an Axim owner who ordered and is waiting for 2003 myself - I might have it on other devices, but my Axim is currently still my main Pocket PC, so I really want to get 2003 on there too...

Yeah, I can understand why you want it. But that doesn't excuse hacking and stealing for those that did it. The equivalent would be someone hacking into an under construction subscriber portion of this site and saying "Oh, well, I was going to subscribe anyway, so I'm sure it's ok that I'm taking these discount coupon codes..." :|

[dwildone]

No one expects to be able to download, say, the upgrade from Win98 -> WinXP, do they? Of course not, they have to get a CD. This is no different.

It's completely different. You don't put the CD into your Pocket PC to install the upgrade; it's done through a computer. Why does the media used to get the installer to the computer matter? And it's a matter of 20-30 MB versus 500 - 600 MB. Big difference.

Jeff

You're missing the point- she is talking about the concept, not the amount of data that is in question. Plain and simple, this is an operating system upgrade- the only difference between the 98 -> XP and PPC 02 -> WM 2003 upgrades is the file size. Operating system upgrades, at least from MS (or the OEMs using a MS license) have always come later than the actual relase of the new OS, have always been on CD to limit piracy (among many other reasons), and, at least in most cases, have not been free unless the OS being upgraded was purchased within a certain period of time surrounding the relase of the new OS. If you want the new OS that bad, buy new hardware and sell your old.

[ctmagnus]

You know, I remember a time, years ago, when people actually had patience. What's happening to us as a society where EVERYTHING has to happen RIGHT NOW. Why can't people be patient? You know it's coming, and it's not like your Axim broke the day 2003 was announced. :wink:

I blame it all on IM. Especially AOLIM. Blame everthying on AOL. The creators of South Park should do a remix of "Blame Canada" entitled "Blame AOL".

[dh]

I still think it's dumb for all concerned for Dell and the other OEMs to mess around with CDs for these upgrades. I've already upgraded the ROM in my Axim twice and it worked great.

Dell could simply issue these 2003 upgrades in the same way, on a secure site with access by device service code. It would save them the cost of producing and distributing all these CDs. Why not do it as MS does for some of their IE upgrades, one price for download, a higher one for disc reflecting the increase in production and shipping costs.

Also, as I mentioned befoe, if Dell has a working WM2003 ROM for '03 Axims, there is no reason at all it can't be issued for the '02 Axims because it's the same device.

Having said all this, I bet all our '02 Axims that are working nicely now will have problems to sort out after upgrading.

[jeff]

It's completely different. You don't put the CD into your Pocket PC to install the upgrade; it's done through a computer. Why does the media used to get the installer to the computer matter? And it's a matter of 20-30 MB versus 500 - 600 MB. Big difference.

Jeff

You're missing the point- she is talking about the concept, not the amount of data that is in question. Plain and simple, this is an operating system upgrade- the only difference between the 98 -> XP and PPC 02 -> WM 2003 upgrades is the file size. Operating system upgrades, at least from MS (or the OEMs using a MS license) have always come later than the actual relase of the new OS, have always been on CD to limit piracy (among many other reasons), and, at least in most cases, have not been free unless the OS being upgraded was purchased within a certain period of time surrounding the relase of the new OS. If you want the new OS that bad, buy new hardware and sell your old.

And you completely ignored my first point. The main difference is that you don't stick a CD into the Pocket PC to install the operating system. Everything is flashed at once by another computer. Windows XP comes on CD so you can take a new computer with no operating system on it by sticking the CD in the drive. And it doesn't install all the components at once, so you need the CD sitting around in case you want to add IIS or a language pack or whatever. Pocket PCs aren't like that at all.

Think about this, if a Pocket PC OS is no different in distribution than desktop Windows, why didn't you get a reinstallation CD when you purchased your new Pocket PC?

[Ed Hansberry]

Bill sent this in. He is unable to post but is the one that alerted me that the update was available earlier this week prompting this whole thread.

For what it's worth, and because there hasn't been a meaningful "Did it work?" posting that I could find, the upgrade that Dell produced (1) works and (2) is wrapped in a poorly-designed installer. I'm one of the few who got the update on Wednesday and, as of this morning, have performed the update.

Though I thought it was normal for a device to take a while to do things (my previous/current PDA is a Newton MessagePad 2100--I just can't cut the cord!), I did think the Axim was a tad, er, sluggish. Now, it's positively lively and PalmReader now takes a mere 1s to turn a page compared to the previous 15-20s, apparently processor throttling-induced or something similar.

But the installer package was a poor excuse for a well-built, robust program. First, browsing for a place to save the previous ROM image caused it to crash. Second, despite the warnings to the contrary, you _do_ (or did, with this version anyway) have to interact/use your Axim to allow the installation process to proceed. When PPC rebooted, it wanted to realign the screen--and wouldn't proceed with the update until it had been done. And several times, a tap was required (as best I could tell) just to make things get along. And once, the Axim said "Invalid ROM file. Deleting ROM file" (or some mumbo-jumbo like that). Yikes! That can't be good!

So, Engineer, get back to work! You've earned the reprieve of a few days. And, Marketer, get off her back! Let her develop a more robust installer so that there aren't a bunch of Axims being returned for fixin'. Besides, black eyes don't cover all that well with makeup, and Dell doesn't need any more than it already has.

Sort of surprised about the poor installer. I've been impressed with the 2002 ROM updates that Dell has released.

[mr_Ray]

Bill sent this in. He is unable to post but is the one that alerted me that the update was available earlier this week prompting this whole thread.

For what it's worth, and because there hasn't been a meaningful "Did it work?" posting that I could find, the upgrade that Dell produced (1) works and (2) is wrapped in a poorly-designed installer. I'm one of the few who got the update on Wednesday and, as of this morning, have performed the update.

Though I thought it was normal for a device to take a while to do things (my previous/current PDA is a Newton MessagePad 2100--I just can't cut the cord!), I did think the Axim was a tad, er, sluggish. Now, it's positively lively and PalmReader now takes a mere 1s to turn a page compared to the previous 15-20s, apparently processor throttling-induced or something similar.

But the installer package was a poor excuse for a well-built, robust program. First, browsing for a place to save the previous ROM image caused it to crash. Second, despite the warnings to the contrary, you _do_ (or did, with this version anyway) have to interact/use your Axim to allow the installation process to proceed. When PPC rebooted, it wanted to realign the screen--and wouldn't proceed with the update until it had been done. And several times, a tap was required (as best I could tell) just to make things get along. And once, the Axim said "Invalid ROM file. Deleting ROM file" (or some mumbo-jumbo like that). Yikes! That can't be good!

So, Engineer, get back to work! You've earned the reprieve of a few days. And, Marketer, get off her back! Let her develop a more robust installer so that there aren't a bunch of Axims being returned for fixin'. Besides, black eyes don't cover all that well with makeup, and Dell doesn't need any more than it already has.

Sort of surprised about the poor installer. I've been impressed with the 2002 ROM updates that Dell has released.

I guess that's what happens when you rush things. Fixes to 2002 probably came along when they were finished and ready.
The WM2003 Axim was likely rushed to meet the WM2003 release deadline, hence it is utter pants.
The upgrade installer by all accounts seems rushed and grossly inadequate, however good or bad the ROM itself may be.

Releasing a good product a week or two behind everyone is way better than rushing it out before it's working in order to meet an artificial marketing deadline, and spending twice as long to fix it and doing inevitable harm to your image. If only they'd realise that :)

I for one would pay more $ for the promise (that they live up to!) of a solid product with solid upgrades, even at the expense of being a few days behind everyone else.

[jeffmd]

Think about this, if a Pocket PC OS is no different in distribution than desktop Windows, why didn't you get a reinstallation CD when you purchased your new Pocket PC?

because the PPC OS does not give you the liscense to install ppc2003 on ANY ppc. It is only an upgrade ment to be discarded since you cannot downgrade the pocket pc. The upgrade wont flash again.

[dh]

Think about this, if a Pocket PC OS is no different in distribution than desktop Windows, why didn't you get a reinstallation CD when you purchased your new Pocket PC?

because the PPC OS does not give you the liscense to install ppc2003 on ANY ppc. It is only an upgrade ment to be discarded since you cannot downgrade the pocket pc. The upgrade wont flash again.

Actually you can (at least could) downgrade a PPC. A friend of mine had problems with the A03 ROM so he reinstalled the A02 version which is working fine to this day.

I hope this still works, because if I have problems when my 2003 A05 ROM arrives, I want to be able to install the A03 again as Plan B.

[jeff]

Think about this, if a Pocket PC OS is no different in distribution than desktop Windows, why didn't you get a reinstallation CD when you purchased your new Pocket PC?

because the PPC OS does not give you the liscense to install ppc2003 on ANY ppc. It is only an upgrade ment to be discarded since you cannot downgrade the pocket pc. The upgrade wont flash again.

So there's no use for a CD and the upgrade could just as easily be a download. As a matter of fact, the CD is just landfill after its first use. So why use it?

[ctmagnus]

So there's no use for a CD and the upgrade could just as easily be a download. As a matter of fact, the CD is just landfill after its first use. So why use it?

Reflectors on lifejackets, of course! :wink:

[Jonathon Watkins]

Dell(and almost all internet companies) charges when they ship, not before. Charging your card when the merchendise is still in their custody and not on its way to you is unethical and *possibly* illegal. So that's why you haven't been charged yet.
Excellent point. No one has paid for this yet. :way to go:

:? Ummm, beg to differ. Dell charged my credit account two weeks ago. Don't see a silver disk on my doormat yet....... :|

[Jonathon Watkins]

You know, I remember a time, years ago, when people actually had patience. What's happening to us as a society where EVERYTHING has to happen RIGHT NOW. Why can't people be patient? You know it's coming, and it's not like your Axim broke the day 2003 was announced. :wink:

Well, actually it did - really! Sort of anyway. I have been waiting till now to get all of my hard-resetting all over in one go - firmware & OS. But I am still waiting, limping on with a poorly Axim.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Ummm guys, I got my 2003 upgrade CD today. It was shipped on the 1st of August from the UK and arrived at my door this afternoon. The disk says:

"Dell Axim X5. Pocket PC 2003 Companion CD. This CD incudes: Microsoft Outlook 2002 and Microsoft ActiveSync 3.7. Contents: Pocket PC Enhancements.

There is no version number on the CD

So, should I install it? Can it be the corrected PPC 2003 update - this soon??? 8O

[Sunnyone]

Whoopppeeee! Maybe mine's coming soon!

[Kati Compton]

So, should I install it? Can it be the corrected PPC 2003 update - this soon??? 8O
You could call Dell and ask...

[Jonathon Watkins]

It's currently 19.13 in the UK and thier tech support is closed. I will call tommorow.

[ctmagnus]

It's currently 19.13 in the UK and thier tech support is closed. I will call tommorow.

No, call now. They'll love you for it. Make sure you it's their home numbers you're calling, though! :mrgreen:

[PPCRules]

Umm, Gerbil, please confirm something ...

You say 'CD', 'disk', like singular. I understood it was to be a 2 CD-ROM set. Probably the operating system flash stuff on one CD and the 'Extras' on another. What you discribe sounds like extras ("Companion"). Do you see an OS code file anywhere?

[PetiteFlower]

I thought they were sending out the fix as a separate CD to those who had been shipped the original faulty upgrade but just one CD with the working upgrade to the new orders.

Anyway they stopped shipping the faulty upgrade when they discovered the problem so I highly doubt it's that. But call. They don't have 24 hour tech support in the UK?

[Jonathon Watkins]

PPCRules - yes - when I opened up the package I saw another CD behind the first one. The second CD said "Microsoft PocketPC 2003 Premium Eddition. For upgrading the Pre-installed Software on your Dell Axim X5. P/N U2493"

I spoke to Dell tech support today and they confirmed that the CD contains the patched upgrade code and to go ahead and upgrade.

They don't have 24 hour tech support in the UK?
You mean they have 24 tech support in the US? 8O

I beleve Dell tech supprt is 08:00-19:00 over here.

BUT - I have a LOT to do tonight and have no time to upgrade. :oops: (I need my PPC to completely work tommorow anyway & don't have time to install all the SW afterwards.) I will try to upgrade tommorow night.

[Sunnyone]

BUT - I have a LOT to do tonight and have no time to upgrade. :oops: (I need my PPC to completely work tommorow anyway & don't have time to install all the SW afterwards.) I will try to upgrade tommorow night. How did your upgrade go?