Bluetooth Keyboards

[Jason Dunn]

Ok, pop quiz time: who's working on a Bluetooth keyboard for the Pocket PC?<br /><br />The answer? I have no idea! <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Pocket+PC+Bluetooth+keyboard%22">Google has no idea!</a>. It seems like the most obvious solution in the world to me, and others, yet no one has stepped up to the plate.<br /><br />What's up with that?

[Excalliber]

Possibly the only thing i was looking forward to using Bluetooth for, and no-one even announced it's in the works? :?

[Paragon]

I believe Pocketop are.......it's down the road a ways yet though.

Dave

[surur]

The first Bluetooth keyboard to be rollable? (http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1051)

Dawn of the Bluetooth Keyboard (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Dawn_of_Bluetooth_Keyboards)

Bluetooth keyboard Adapter for Foldable PDA keyboard (http://www.bluelogic.co.kr/english/keyboard.htm)

Flexis Announces Bluetooth Keyboard (http://www.pdahandyman.com/archives/000573.html)

and here, a huge collection of links Bluetooth Wireless Keyboards (http://bluetooth.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$513?mode=day)

Jason, next time try to be less specific, try bluetooth keyboard pda (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=bluetooth+keyboard+pda&btnG=Google+Search)

Surur

[brntcrsp]

A BT thumbboard would be pretty cool too.

[szamot]

I think it is because it is too obvious, that's why no one has thought of it. I think BT is fantastic for this sort of application. What kills me is that they have earbuds/microphone sets but not this. :!:

[Jason Dunn]

The first Bluetooth keyboard to be rollable? (http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1051)

Dawn of the Bluetooth Keyboard (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Dawn_of_Bluetooth_Keyboards)

Bluetooth keyboard Adapter for Foldable PDA keyboard
(http://www.bluelogic.co.kr/english/keyboard.htm)

Cool! All is not lost! :-) I really don't like the "floppy" keyboard designs though...

[JoeMoon]

Here are a few of my guesses...

Manufacturers believe that if they made a bluetooth keyboard there would be no need to upgrade the keyboard the next time you upgraded your PPC...

Manufacturers think keyboards are consumable items - as a result, they believe they would lose the residual income as they roll out new PPCs...

PPC manufacturers don't want you to use the keyboard they made for their PPC on a competitors PPC...

PPC Keyboard manufacturers don't know bluetooth exists?!

Joe...

[OneAngryDwarf]

I don't know when it is supposed to come out or if it is already out but there is a bluetooth keyboard made by the company who is providing the keyboards for the new MS Smartphones being released by Orange over in the UK... don't remember the name of the company but they did have a picture on the site... its small and flexible and i would assume it works/will work w/ ppc since they seem to target MS products...sorry i don't feel like going and looking for it :(
On a side note... i think one reason why we aren't seeing many is simply because of the form factor - most of the current keyboards allow u to have you handheld vertical which is very nice... if u did that w/ a blootooth keyboard u would be losing the only advantage that BT has... not having to attach the handheld to something... still i think they should be made available though

[Chris Spera]

This is why I made my original post (accidentally to the front page :oops: ) the other day. This is a HUGE hole in the Pocket PC world.

With new PDA's like the iPAQ 1940 and 1930 that don't have serial support, but do have BlueTooth, this is a solution that is BEGGING for a developer to take care of it.

Utimately, it should be foldable or rollable, but I know I'd pay for a keyboard that I could bounce from PDA to PDA (or even PC to PC for that matter, provided BlueTooth is BlueTooth between devices, and the appropriate PC drivers existed...). This could be the true beginning of universal accessories for PDA's.

I sure hope someone picks this up and runs with it.

Kind Regards,


Christopher Spera

[surur]

JoeMoon, I like your conspiracy theory, but as most keyboards are third-party I initially did not think the revenue stream would be an issue.

Then it occurred to me that even the keyboard manufacturers benefit from our PDA turnover, so one could potentially have 3-4 Stow-away's in as many years...

So in short, we may be out of luck

Surur

[barky81]

This is not really a practical idea yet, is it? You will need multiple simultaneous connections to use it properly: typing an e-mail via the bluetooth keyboard, while bonded to your t68 gprs via bluetooth using the internet interactively...

www.networknews.co.uk/Analysis/1141976
"Bluetooth version 1.2 is still being tested and is not likely to be ratified before November at the earliest; and the first Bluetooth 1.2 products are not expected until March 2004, according to experts.

"The forthcoming Bluetooth 1.2 standard adds adaptive frequency hopping (AFH) to improve tolerance to interference, especially when close to 802.11b wireless LAN (WLAN) kit that shares the same 2.4GHz portion of the radio spectrum. There are also improvements to quality of service for voice functions. Bluetooth version 1.2 supports multiple simultaneous connections - which will enable a user to take a call using their Bluetooth headset while their phone is synchronising with their laptop."

[Timothy Rapson]

There are bluetooth keyboards rolling off assembly lines in SEA right now from Belkin, Stowaway, and HP.

Of course they are not going to announce them with only four or five bluetooth PDAs on the market. How would they keep selling you the IR hard wired ones. But, they are surely coming and when they do, there will be little left of the hard wired market.

Just my prediction that makes some sense of the excellent observation Jason makes.

When things are just too improbable to believe (that there are no bluetooth keyboards already in the making) they are probably wrong.

I see three months until they arrive and take over.

[Jeff Rutledge]

I am really surprised we didn't see one of these shortly after the 3800's were released. I think the iPAQ sales of the 3800 and 3900 series' would have been enough to indicate a market was there.

Maybe the technical implementation was tougher than we think it should be?

[Foo Fighter]

I'd rather see a solution to make existing BT desktop keyboards, such as Microsoft's, work with PPC. That would be cool! 0X

[DarkHelmet]

I thought Microsoft makes a BT keyboard and mouse - for the PC.
Seems like a PPC driver should be a no-brainer for them.

[piperpilot]

This is kind of off-topic, but more than a BT keyboard, I would like to see BT headphones so I don't have to worry about the headphone wires catching on other things and ripping the headphones off my head. Plus, I don't like the location of the headphone jack on my iPAQ 5455. BT headphones would solve both problems.

[Cypher]

OK,
Help me out here. Does a BlueTooth keyboard have to be specifically Pocket PC compatible? Doesn't the Human Interface Driver Profile take care of that? You could, of course, build a driver on top of the BlueTooth serial port just like the plug-in keyboards do with the hardware serial port and/or serial IR port but it sounds kind of like a kludge.

[aroma]

Who needs a BT keyboard? Bring on the "projection" keyboards! ;)

[surur]

I'd rather see a solution to make existing BT desktop keyboards, such as Microsoft's, work with PPC. That would be cool! 0X

I agree. Some-one has already done the same for Linux. A pertinent quote from his web page is

The moral of the story, if any, is that a little persistence can turn the "Windows XP Only" label on a cool device's box into a lie.

Check it out here: How I connected a Microsoft Bluetooth keyboard/mouse to Linux (http://www.visi.com/~pmk/msbtkb-linux.html)

All we need now is some enterprising PPC programmer to convert this to our favourite devices. Lets hope...

Surur

[beq]

Are we sure most BT PDAs have profile support for this already? The answer is no (unfortunately) for even basic headset, so I doubt it...

[Wuss912]

I know of someone who is working on a bluetooth keyboard
(to pull a jason) but i cant telly you who or when..
:evil:

[suhit]

Hmm, if Google doesn't know, then I think we need to accept the fact that it doesn't truly exist :)

Suhit

[hashemc]

Aside from the "cool factor" how practical would this be? You still have to be in close proximity of the PPC screen when typing. :roll:

[Bandito]

On Topic:
Bar none (for touch-typists at least), the Senseboard is the king of BT keyboards ( http://www.senseboard.com/ ). Too bad it seems to be in the vaporware category thus far.

Off Topic:
This is kind of off-topic, but more than a BT keyboard, I would like to see BT headphones so I don't have to worry about the headphone wires catching on other things and ripping the headphones off my head. Plus, I don't like the location of the headphone jack on my iPAQ 5455. BT headphones would solve both problems.

I couldn't agree more. And this product will solve your problem.
http://www.openbrain.co.kr/e_site/e_products/e_products03.htm . I'm currently evaluating a sample unit, and though there are some issues, I believe that in its final form this device will meet a lot of the needs of the Pocket PC community. PM me if you'd like more information. BTW, the model I have is a nice silver, not the red or yellow of previous incarnations.

[David C]

Aside from the "cool factor" how practical would this be? You still have to be in close proximity of the PPC screen when typing. :roll:

Well, it's always good to have a keyboard that works with every PDA. The IR is half way there, but the reception is fickle when you try to type a large document. It cuts out when you are not looking if it is not aligned properly.

[David C]

On Topic:
Bar none (for touch-typists at least), the Senseboard is the king of BT keyboards ( http://www.senseboard.com/ ). Too bad it seems to be in the vaporware category thus far.

I like the V-Pen concept. http://www.otmtech.com/vpen.asp I could see my self carrring it with a BT phone, and as a mouse for PDA.

[scoopster]

OK,
Help me out here. Does a BlueTooth keyboard have to be specifically Pocket PC compatible? Doesn't the Human Interface Driver Profile take care of that? You could, of course, build a driver on top of the BlueTooth serial port just like the plug-in keyboards do with the hardware serial port and/or serial IR port but it sounds kind of like a kludge.

Cypher---you've hit the nail on the head. The lack of HID support in virtually ALL currently shipping BT devices is the problem. The idea of bluetooth was it was a standard...so just "plug n play" without drivers....like setting up a headset with an t68i or syncing your 3870/3970/5450/2210 with a BT-enabled computer. The problem is that no PDA or phone or even dongle/PC-card vendor is including an HID profile in their BT devices.

The result, as you've correctly identifited, is that the only way to make a BT keyboard work is with a unique driver for each device type (yes, on top of the serial port...yes...a kludge). i.e. if a company made a BT keyboard for ipaqs, it would require you to install a driver into the iPaq; and that same keyboard wouldn't work (without a driver) on a phone or computer. If you've used the MS BT keyboard/mouse you know it only works with the MS dongle and you have to install a driver....and now you know why.

Until a BT keyboard can live up to the appeal of being universal, I don't think you'll see any shipping for mobile devices for a while. Annoucements may be made, but mostly it will be demo units. The best we can do for now is to push manufacturers to include an HID profile in their BT devices.

[revolution.cx]

I'm typing this on my brand new MS Wireless Desktop for Bluetooth. Works great. I guess we just need some of that magic digital glue to get it to work on the Pocket PC. Of course the thing is too huge to travel with and use with a PDA.

Not to jump too far off topic but I also picked up an IR keyboard from Targus that works great with the 1910 and the Axim. It has a cradle and a little arm that swings up to place the IR beam right in front of the PPC's transceiver.

So that'll hold me until I can get a mini bluetooth keyboard.

[KayMan2k]

Give companies time to manfucature for BlueTooth - its just starting to take off...

[Server]

This is kind of off-topic, but more than a BT keyboard, I would like to see BT headphones so I don't have to worry about the headphone wires catching on other things and ripping the headphones off my head. Plus, I don't like the location of the headphone jack on my iPAQ 5455. BT headphones would solve both problems.

&lt;offtopic>
I have read/seen somewhere a few BT enabled headphones.
The only problem is, I don't think BT carries enough bandwidth
to have CD quality audio. I am not a BT expert by I believe this
can be addressed at the software/hardware level in the future.
&lt;/offtopic>


&lt;ontopic>
I have been using my Pocketop Ir Keyboard for a while now
and for the most part it functions without a hitch. Someone
even mentioned that using a Ir keyboard could pose a security
risk as somone else with a PDA could pick up the Ir beam. After
careful thought, I have determined that it is highly unlikely if not
imposible.

On the other hand, BT keyboards simply makes all the sense
in the world, but just like everything else in the BT realm,
it is ssslow to market a BT enable product with not enough demand.
&lt;/ontopic>

[Bandito]

I like the V-Pen concept. http://www.otmtech.com/vpen.asp I could see my self carrring it with a BT phone, and as a mouse for PDA.

I definitely like this as well, but I am much more efficient with a keyboard than with a pen. Years of touch-typing has made my hand turn into some sort of deformed claw when forced to write with a pen. I'm amazed that Transcriber understands me at all :wink:

[kagayaki1]

I am really surprised we didn't see one of these shortly after the 3800's were released. I think the iPAQ sales of the 3800 and 3900 series' would have been enough to indicate a market was there.

Maybe the technical implementation was tougher than we think it should be?

Do you have data to support this? I seem to remember data that Compaq was definitely doing well with the new devices, but their market share was effectively lower by the myriad of other devices that were introduced at the same time, in comparison to the original release when you couldn't find an iPAQ anywhere :-)

[onepieceman]

I like the V-Pen concept. http://www.otmtech.com/vpen.asp I could see my self carrring it with a BT phone, and as a mouse for PDA.

Trouble is, this company is dead isn't it? The latest entry on their web site is from June of last year. I agree the concept is great. Don't know why it hasn't got off the ground.

[kagayaki1]

&lt;offtopic> I have read/seen somewhere a few BT enabled headphones. The only problem is, I don't think BT carries enough bandwidth to have CD quality audio. I am not a BT expert by I believe this
can be addressed at the software/hardware level in the future. &lt;/offtopic>

I believe you're right. Bluetooth can provide close to 128kb/s quality, but that's it. Too bad - it sure would be a killer device.

And before anyone suggests a Wi-Fi headphones set, it won't be possible until better battery life is possible. It just won't. I know you want to say something - save yourself the humiliation and DON'T!

[Gen-M]

When I went looking about a year ago, Logitech said that they had a design for a bluetooth keyboard, but it was too expensive. They did not believe that there would be enough of a market at the price they would have to charge.

Prices have come down, but not enough to compete with USB.

Question: are there more BT enabled PPCs or more USB Host enabled PPCs?

Why are there no BT enabled PPCs with HID profiles?
Why are there no USB Host enabled PPCs with full native HID Drivers?

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[toml]

My wife supports the Microsoft BT mouse and keyboard hardware (at least until all their jobs get outsourced to India next month... "Where do you want your job to go today?"). I just asked her if the MS BT Keyboard would work with the MS PPC OS. Official MS answer: No, it won't.

Huh? Who's the genius behind that?

BTW, the BT devices are tech support biggest headache. That and flight sim (everyone's "an ex pilot" and knows exactly what they think the plane should be doing).

[JoeMoon]

[quote="BanditoI'm amazed that Transcriber understands me at all :wink:[/quote]

Although I think Transcriber is pretty darn good for hand writing recognition - I still think it needs work. I am so frustrated with it that I don't even use it any longer... I am anxious for a real keyboard solution on my PPC... In fact, I have started to look at the Libreto with it's mini-built in keyboard...

Joe...

[revolution.cx]

It's a bit of a bear to install because you are also installing bluetooth. Sort of like getting a USB keyboard and also having to install a USB card and driver set.

Once installed it works great except for the timeout sleep it goes into that takes a second to wake from.

But it's the best looking keyboard and mouse I've seen.

That link to the guy who got his working with Linux is promising. I don't know too much about bluetooth but from the sounds of it a HID for it is pretty well defined stuff.

If I had a BT pocket pc I'd hack on it, but right now I don't.


My wife supports the Microsoft BT mouse and keyboard hardware (at least until all their jobs get outsourced to India next month... "Where do you want your job to go today?"). I just asked her if the MS BT Keyboard would work with the MS PPC OS. Official MS answer: No, it won't.

Huh? Who's the genius behind that?

BTW, the BT devices are tech support biggest headache. That and flight sim (everyone's "an ex pilot" and knows exactly what they think the plane should be doing).

[hollis_f]

This is not really a practical idea yet, is it? You will need multiple simultaneous connections to use it properly: typing an e-mail via the bluetooth keyboard, while bonded to your t68 gprs via bluetooth using the internet interactively...

{Snip}

Bluetooth version 1.2 supports multiple simultaneous connections - which will enable a user to take a call using their Bluetooth headset while their phone is synchronising with their laptop."Hmm, my 3970 seems to be quite happy connected to the net via BT GPRS while also talking to mt BT GPS. So multiple simultaneous connections already work - on some devices.

[madbart]

surely it would be eaasier to "snap on" a keyboard as it wouldn't drain the already inefficient batteries thar are in ppc's :wink: