Ken & Andy Jump on Toshiba

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.kenradio.com/audio/jul14.asx' target='_blank'>http://www.kenradio.com/audio/jul14.asx</a><br /><br /></div>I hadn't heard of the "Ken and Andy Show" until Pocket PC Thoughts reader Jason Clarke told me they were going to do a story on Toshiba's lack of upgrades for most of their Pocket PCs. The first five minutes of this linked audio broadcast tell the story. It's quite interesting - it seems that Toshiba North America has refused to comment on the issue and has referred all questions to Toshiba Corporate head office. I wonder if this means they're trying to nudge HQ to offer the upgrade?<br /><br />I'm still pretty ticked off that I can't get an upgrade for the e310 I have - Toshiba has a big black "x" beside their name in my Pocket PC OEM book. It's just not right to ditch your customers. :evil: Heck, the e570 is from the same generation as the 3800 series iPAQs, and HP is offering an upgrade for those devices. Yet Toshiba won't offer one for devices only a few months old.<br /><br />I listened to most of the radio show, which was good, but I had to roll my eyes a little when they started talking about the Canadian counterfeit currency issue - they seem a little out of touch with our money here. :wink: We haven't had $1 bills for years, and Canadian money has a whole whack of anti-counterfeiting features, including a foil zone. Any consumer-level printer has been able to duplicate the surface look of a bill for quite some time now, but it's the subtle details that matter.

[Brad Adrian]

No $1 bills?!?!?!? Really?
Next thing you'll tell me that Canada's stopped printing $1000 bills, too (http://www.craigmarlatt.com/craig/canada/symbols_facts&lists/currency.html).

[Ichabod]

Really this is quite a serious issue on the Toshiba front, mostly because the e310 and e740 were released so close to a major OS update and they haven't responded adequately to the obvious demand. For a company as large as them try to pull this off makes me nervous to invest in ANY new pocketpc. I know I would be mad if I was a Toshiba consumer. Thier decission on this might decide the companies fate in the pocketpc arena, as I don't think people will buy into a company that doesn't support happy customers.

[Mike Temporale]

We also don't have $2 bills.

It really sucks if you want to buy something for $0.50 and all you have is a $10. :evil:

[Janak Parekh]

No $1 bills?!?!?!? Really?
Actually, the discussion has come up in the US and other countries as well, given the rising cost of everything. Except here I think we're debating the issue on the penny level. :lol:

--janak

[kiwi]

I got rid of my E310 for a e740 then went to a HP 568.. that was about 1 year ago. Dissapointed I cant get a win2003 update for the 568 though :(

I might sell my 568 back home in NZ, and get a 2215 locally here in Ca.

On the issue of currency, NZ and Australia have decent security on out bank notes. Mate, the NZ ones they are made of plastic and have a see thru window on them with a whole lot of security features such as metal strip etc.
These notes are hard to rip (I dont think you can actually rip them unless you use a sharp instrument) and they go thru the wash easier.

I have a few here with me, but unsure if I should scan them and upload pics on the www ;)

Bri

[Foo Fighter]

I hadn't heard of the "Ken and Andy Show" until Pocket PC Thoughts reader Jason Clarke told me...

You're kidding? 8O

Kenradio has been around for years. Ken was one of the very first online tech radio shows in the biz. Even older than CNET Radio.

[Ed Hansberry]

I'm the same way. I quit recommending Toshiba when they didn't offer EUU updates for a while and then offeres some really late. Did they ever offer EUU3 for the 570?

Now with the total abandonment of the 570, 300 and 740, I now warn people away from Tosh. They will get the clue that bad customer service will cost them more than offering updates. :devilboy:

[D.psi]

I got rid of my E310 for a e740 then went to a HP 568.. that was about 1 year ago. Dissapointed I cant get a win2003 update for the 568 though :(


I'm still pretty ticked off that I can't get an upgrade for the e310 I have - Toshiba has a big black "x" beside their name in my Pocket PC OEM book. It's just not right to ditch your customers. Heck, the e570 is from the same generation as the 3800 series iPAQs, and HP is offering an upgrade for those devices. Yet Toshiba won't offer one for devices only a few months old.

Hate to tell you folks, but I think HP invented the orphaning game. Back when they spat out the Jornada 430SE, ~6 months before the birth of the Pocket PC. I'm guessing they had an inventory of parts for the 420, and just added a little extra zip to make 'em sell better (the primary differences between the 420 and 430 was a doubling of memory, to a whopping 16 MB, and "boosting" the processor from 120 MHz to 133 MHz, if I recall).

The only way I wound up upgrading to Pocket PC was due to the infamous 12 .vs. 16 bit graphic resolution issue for the 4xx series and 54x series. I don't mind getting 12 bit graphics, if I know that's what I'm getting. Besides the extra 16MB of memory for $50CDN was nice too :wink: .

D.psi

[Jason Dunn]

You're kidding? 8O Kenradio has been around for years. Ken was one of the very first online tech radio shows in the biz. Even older than CNET Radio.

Remember I live in Canada dude :lol: - I've never heard them broadcast on any radio stations here. Besides which, I've never been much of a talk radio guy, so even if they are broadcast up here, I probably wouldn't know. :wink:

[Foo Fighter]

Remember I live in Canada dude :lol: - I've never heard them broadcast on any radio stations here.

They aren't on the radio. Strictly internet news stream. No big deal, I was just kidding you. :wink:

[Newsboy]

Heh. I took the girlfriend to Canada last weekend and had to explain what "Loonies" and "Toonies" were.

[Chris Spera]

Funny. I was talking to a good friend of mine, also named Chris, about this very subject this evening.

When one buys an item, one is entitled to support. Not necessarily upgrades, but SUPPORT. If there are bugs that need to be squashed, then the OEM should provide an OS update to fix the bugs (in our case EUU's). The decision to provide the upgrade to WM2003 was left to the discretion of the OEM.

The problem with Toshiba is that by manufacturing a device with a upgradeable topography, they created an expectation (rightly or wrongly) within their customer base that an upgrade to WM2003 would be provided. The fact that OEM's like HP/ Compaq and T-Mobile are offering their upgrade for a nominal fee and for FREE (depending on when you bought your device, tho I thought I read that all T-Mobile users would get the upgrade for free) only exacerbated the problem. Toshiba also haven't helped themselves by remaining silent or telling individual users that no upgrade would be provided or was planned.

So while in truth, users are entitled to support, but not necessarily upgrades (MS releases service packs to address bugs and provides them as free downloads; but requires all users to pay to upgrade to the next level OS), I think Toshiba is perhaps unintentionally, backing themselves out of the Pocket PC market. After all this mess, I will NEVER purchase a Toshiba Pocket PC again, no matter how much I liked my e310.

I think Toshiba's behavior is deplorable. I believe they should provide their users with an upgrade path, but understand that they may not. That's the reason why I sold my e310. They made a choice, and so did I; but I digress...

The main reason Toshiba may not be offering an upgrade path for any of their devices is that there simply may not be enough revenue in the venture to cover development costs. As a Toshiba owner, I signed one of the Toshiba petitions requesting a WM2003 upgrade, and I will continue to support those efforts. However, my friend Chris made a couple of great points (both of which I mentioned)

1. As users we are entitled to bug fixes, but not necessarily upgrades
2. Toshiba (and other OEM's) may not offer upgrades to the new OS because they don't see a strong enough revenue stream.

While I understand this, and now accept it, I certainly don't like it. I don't like being taken advantage of; and that's how Toshiba has made me feel.

[cherring]

Casio E-200 users have been silent on this one. I certainly didn't expect an upgrade for mine, I'd still buy casio products though.

[Kiyoshi]

Does Casio still support their PDA's? I always thought that they had dropped that business sector because it wasn't profitable enough or they just stopped making newer models of their PDA's.

[baker]

I love my e310, but as the rest feel, Toshiba's support is somewhat lacking. Their chat and email support response after a question is always call an 800 number. I got the feeling that they put it on the market, but the poor folks at their call center hadn't even seen the device. We finally purchased a digital camera. We had two "finalists" and decided against the Toshiba because of their PPC support.

[mjgroff]

I know it isn't the theme of this site, but I have to comment on the currency issue. I used to work in the retail point of sales equipment business so I am intimately familiar with it...

In Canada, we do have $1 and $2 currency, they are just coins instead of bills. We also have new $5 and $10 bills that include the latest in security features. I suspect that the radio hosts were basing their segment on an article that was on the news wires a short while ago about fake $20 bills, printed on common inkjet printers, showing up in Canadian night clubs. It would be difficult to pass off inkjet fakes under normal lighting conditions. Canada has new $20's on the way soon, with enhanced security to fight the more sophisticated counterfeiters but I don't think security features in the bills will solve the problem for dark, noisy, chaotic places like night clubs. That is a staff training issue.

Canadian bills are generally harder to forge than U.S. bills, even the redesigned U.S. $20 has fewer security features than Canada's recently replaced $5 and $10 bills. The reason counterfeiting is more common in Canada is because the criminals can get away with it. Our police agencies have a poor record of catching counterfeiters compared with that of the U.S. Secret Service. In Canada, we seem to focus on making the money harder to copy. In the U.S. my impression is the focus is on stopping the people who copy it.

As far as our money being "funny", if you compare it with various currencies from around the world, it is actually pretty typical. Most countries use multi-colors bills. The U.S. is one of the few countries who has stuck with black and white.

[felixdd]

The U.S. is one of the few countries who has stuck with black and white.

You mean green on green -- dark green on light green :)

[Gerard]

Kiyoshi; Casio doesn't really offer much in the way of PPC support in North America, as they no longer sell any here, only the BE-300 sort of thing. I don't know if they've continued marketing their 'industrial' models here, but on their site they say that these are not available for direct purchase at present.

The only support I've seen from Casio in a long while is from one very dedicated and helpful fellow from Casio New Zealand, calling himself 'crowdie'. His forum posts have been sporadic, probably because he's pretty much running the show for NZ, but when he contributes something it's almost always helpful. I wish the rest of Casio would have a look at his fine example, but it seems they're not interested, and it seems also that he is as mystified about this as everyone else.

[Kiyoshi]

Thx for the reply, because I have always seen Casio PDA's as pretty good for the money, since I think they have CF slots in them, and they usually include 32 or 64mb of memory. I don't know any other specs and stuff like that though, cuz I haven't shopped around for a PDA in a while.