Stop With Macromedia!

[Gamma Ray]

OK, I switched to dial-up lately and I have noticed two things at PocketPCThoughts. First, the home page remains blank for the several minutes it takes to download elements. Man that is REALLY painful - why can't it be progressive? Second, everytime I change a page I have to click "NO" five times to "Do You Want To Install Macromedia Flash?" I have turned off all animations in my settings - but since when does this site use Flash? Or is something from Macromedia hijacking my Internet Explorer? It is really strange - this only seems to happen on this site. Any thoughts?

[Janak Parekh]

The "I'm a subscriber!" buttons are Flash. The site will probably be much quicker if you install Flash and let it cache those buttons. (We wouldn't have used Flash, but people started hacking them into their avatars...)

As for the homepage staying blank, I believe that's a function of the browser. If you're interested, sign up for the subscriber services, and you can customize how many articles should be on the front page, if ads should appear, etc.

--janak

[Jason Dunn]

Flash is as central to the Web todays as HTML is, and you can expect to see even more Flash here over time, rather than less. I have yet to hear one good reason why someone shouldn't install the Flash client. What's the problem exactly?

In terms of the page load time, it can't be progressive because it's mostly tables - tables do not render progressively. Perhaps we could investigate using CSS and DHTML to position page elements exactly, but that introduces a whole whack of issues when it comes to browser compatabilities. Ultimately, Janak is right - if you want to have a light and fast page, become a subscriber, and strip out 90% of the page elements. I'm on a cable modem, and things start appearing after 1 second, and everything is loaded on the page after 2 seconds. Even on a 56K modem you should see a few elements quite quickly...I think there may be another issue at work here.

[Gamma Ray]

Thank you both for your fast replies. Flash was never a problem for me before, because my DSL connection predates the start of my visits here and who cares what the extras are at 1.5Mbs? At 56K though, the irony is thick! You guys started out as a presentation of information that was striking in its simplicity. The problem is I never realized how debilitating the dressing was for 56K folks. I now think the thing that is causing the delay in the page loads are the five times the server looks for Flash between each page and tries to hook me up to Macromedia. Although I put up with Flash in the past, like SPAM, these repeated interruptions now have me livid.

I can't take hammering the no button five times between pages and I can't find a way of blocking this so I am going to stick to Monster and Brighthand for the next few months. I'll be back when I get an income again so I can A. Afford the bandwidth to skim past the Flash and B. Contribute to your site because you deserve it AND to trash Flash. For what it's worth, the posts and reports are what make this site great, the nice layout and design are...well...nice...but never anything I ever came here to look at.

Thanks for the ride!

[dh]

I know that the useage of Flash has always been a bit contriversial. I used to have a sideline business that built websites and we did some completely in Flash. A lot of people hated the very idea.

I guess Flash is a love it or hate it product. I have found it useful for product demos and presentations. Most people use Powerpoint for this kind of thing, but I can throw together a Flash movie and it's a really small file to email. Also, most people that the Flash player in IE but not everyone has Powerpoint.

Jason, it would probably make the site easier for people with low bandwidth connections (includes me if I'm traveling and the only way I can connect is dial-up) if the subscriber buttons were HTML rollovers rather than Flash animations.

[Hyperluminal]

I have dialup (grr... DSL not availible in my area :evil: ), and this site isn't that bad. The frontpage sometimes takes a little while to load, but I just opened it now and it loaded in a few seconds. I have flash, and the subscriber icons are cached, so that's not a problem (they're actually one of the first things to load on each page, after the tables but before the actual text :D ). The homepage can take a while to load if it's changed much, but it doesn't annoy me a lot, I guess I'm used to it...

[Jason Dunn]

I now think the thing that is causing the delay in the page loads are the five times the server looks for Flash between each page and tries to hook me up to Macromedia. Although I put up with Flash in the past, like SPAM, these repeated interruptions now have me livid.</A>

Assuming you haven't gone just yet, have you considered installing the Flash client (it's quite small), then simply turning off Flash animation completely? You can do it easily with browser-shell products like MyIE2 (http://www.myie2.com/html_en/home.htm), and possibly with Internet Explorer as well. That way you wouldn't get the pop-ups prompting you to install, and you wouldn't get the Flash animations.

I'm curious though, what's your grudge against Flash as a tool?

[Jason Dunn]

Jason, it would probably make the site easier for people with low bandwidth connections (includes me if I'm traveling and the only way I can connect is dial-up) if the subscriber buttons were HTML rollovers rather than Flash animations.

We made them Flash so they couldn't possibly be faked, and I can almost guarantee that the Flash buttons are smaller in file size than two GIFs + animation.

I just don't understand the reluctance to install the Flash player... :|

[Janak Parekh]

Thank you both for your fast replies. Flash was never a problem for me before, because my DSL connection predates the start of my visits here and who cares what the extras are at 1.5Mbs? At 56K though, the irony is thick! You guys started out as a presentation of information that was striking in its simplicity. The problem is I never realized how debilitating the dressing was for 56K folks.
I don't know if I agree; by all means, the old site was faster, but I've visited the site on 56K without any problems. If all you want to do is to hit the front-page, you can always use the mobile version (www.pocketpcthoughts.com/mobile)...

Although I put up with Flash in the past, like SPAM, these repeated interruptions now have me livid.
Have you actually tried installing Flash on 56K? Flash was specifically built as an alternative to Shockwave as it produced really small files.

--janak

[spursdude]

Assuming you haven't gone just yet, have you considered installing the Flash client (it's quite small), then simply turning off Flash animation completely? You can do it easily with browser-shell products like MyIE2 (http://www.myie2.com/html_en/home.htm), and possibly with Internet Explorer as well. That way you wouldn't get the pop-ups prompting you to install, and you wouldn't get the Flash animations.
You can also use AvantBrowser (http://www.avantbrowser.com) to disable Flash... although Flash really is not that bad. I don't wanna sound apathetic, but leaving an awesome website just because it uses Flash seems rather unreasonable...

[TopDog]

I don't either see the problem with Flash... the hole point of Flash is to lower the Kb's downloaded to get a "flashy" site :-)

If you are on a low bandwith and want the best speed... go with Opera 7.1, the fastest browser on the planet. And it works great with PPCThoughts, the site loads much faster!

[maximus]

I just don't understand the reluctance to install the Flash player... :|

Some companies disallowed users to install non-company apps.
Flash player is one of them.

[Janak Parekh]

Some companies disallowed users to install non-company apps. Flash player is one of them.
That's... surprising. Most companies preinstall flash as it's needed for many sites.

Anyway, if you're a subscriber, you can turn off the badges, and that should kill the popup. Depending on which browser you have, you may also be able to tell the browser to stop prompting you.

--janak

[PetiteFlower]

You know, now that you mention it, my computer at work doesn't have Flash installed, I get the prompt to dl it on some sites, but NEVER for this one. Maybe it just has an old version of Flash installed.

But I'm sure this doesn't have to do with Gamma Ray's work computer not being allowed to install Flash because come on--who has a 56k connection at work? Even the really small businesses now can afford cable :) Especially if they're big enough that they have an IT department regulating what can and can't be installed on the system.

[disconnected]

Many companies, mine included, only install what they consider absolutely necessary for business purposes. I haven't had any problem with this site, except that I can't see avatars, but some sites I can't access at all.

Actually, I'm very grateful to even have internet access at work. Most of the jobs in my department involve programming, but mainly in COBOL, if you can believe it! We're obviously not on the cutting edge here, although people in other parts of the company work on creating web sites, etc. If our jobs don't specifically require internet access, we need special permission to even have it; otherwise all we have is intranet.

[Janak Parekh]

Actually, I'm very grateful to even have internet access at work. Most of the jobs in my department involve programming, but mainly in COBOL, if you can believe it!
I believe it. Sounds like you're at a financial-related firm.

So, here's a curiosity question for you and others like you -- what happens if you were to bring in your own laptop, with your own Internet access, into the office (say, 1xRTT or GPRS-based)?

In my case, I'm afraid I'd turn down a job without Internet access. 8O Of course, in my field it makes sense to say that.

--janak

[PetiteFlower]

So, here's a curiosity question for you and others like you -- what happens if you were to bring in your own laptop, with your own Internet access, into the office (say, 1xRTT or GPRS-based)?

If it's like most of the places I've worked(and I'm not in IT, I work in health insurance), they would tell you not to use it during "work time" that is, only breaks and lunch :) I've never worked anywhere without internet access but the companies I've worked for HAVE had some strict anti-surfing policies. I'm lucky enough to have a lenient boss now :) I'm jealous of people who are allowed to run IM at work and such. But yeah if I brought in my own laptop and used my own internet connection they STILL wouldn't want me chatting on IM or surfing when I'm supposed to be working!

[Janak Parekh]

I'm jealous of people who are allowed to run IM at work and such.
I'm not sure you want to be. :P Those of us that do (for example, startups, academia, etc.) largely are allowed because are schedules are undefined -- we put in the hours it takes to get the work done. Since it's not a 9-to-5 job, the company couldn't care much what we do in the intervening time as long as we're productive. If anything, IM is a business tool in these environments.

--janak

[maximus]

Many companies, mine included, only install what they consider absolutely necessary for business purposes. I haven't had any problem with this site, except that I can't see avatars, but some sites I can't access at all.

Actually, I'm very grateful to even have internet access at work. Most of the jobs in my department involve programming, but mainly in COBOL, if you can believe it! We're obviously not on the cutting edge here, although people in other parts of the company work on creating web sites, etc. If our jobs don't specifically require internet access, we need special permission to even have it; otherwise all we have is intranet.

I think we are working in the same company =)
From a total of 2000 staffs in Indonesia, I believe there are only less than 50 people with internet access. All the 'unluckier' staffs get intranet and internal emails only.

So, here's a curiosity question for you and others like you -- what happens if you were to bring in your own laptop, with your own Internet access, into the office (say, 1xRTT or GPRS-based)?


Tried that. But GPRS is pretty much slow down here. I only get averagely 5 kbps with GPRS. Compare that with the office PCs, which are connected by 4x2 mbps leased line to the singapore data center, which in turns is directly connected to the asia fiber optics network ... And of course I dont want to look like a ultra-geek with 2 laptops on my desk (may not install GPRS on office laptop, remember ? :mrgreen: )

CDMAs are not very popular downhere.

[disconnected]

I only have the internet access because at one time, out of all the things that might have made me happy -- a raise, a bonus, etc., internet access was the only thing my boss could authorize that wouldn't really cost the company anything.

And yes, now that I have it I couldn't imagine not having it. As it is, working in a gray-walled cube, in an anonymous office building with no windows that actually open feels somewhat prison-like -- having the internet makes an enormous difference to that isolated feeling. We occasionally get corporate emails reminding us that the internet is for business use only, and I'm sure somewhere there are statistics being kept, but so far they don't seem to be actively monitoring usage, thank goodness.

I think the laptop thing would be frowned on as being too conspicuous during office hours, although you might be able to get away with the PDA/bluetooth phone thing if you didn't get too carried away with it.

[maximus]

And yes, now that I have it I couldn't imagine not having it. As it is, working in a gray-walled cube, in an anonymous office building with no windows that actually open feels somewhat prison-like -- having the internet makes an enormous difference to that isolated feeling.

Imagine working as an operator in our data center.

No windows, Mobilephone/PDA/Camera/any other communication devices are not allowed. No internet access, while you know that in that same room, there is a 4x2 mbps redundancy link to the internet.

Must be really bad.

[KimVette]

I know that the useage of Flash has always been a bit contriversial. I used to have a sideline business that built websites and we did some completely in Flash. A lot of people hated the very idea.

I HATE Flash sites, and here is why:
1. Pages cannot be bookmarked
2. Search engines cannot index/crawl flash sites
3. They're usually a pain for people to navigate
4. They are not printer friendly
5. They are not ADA-compliant
6. They are very bandwidth-intensive

Now, I LIKE web sites which use Flash objects for components of the page - as pointed out, they're often smaller than comparable GIF animations, can include sound, add to the navigation, and provide performance and cross-browser compatibility which is superior to javascript (providing you also provide alternative navigation for those users lacking a plugin).

I recommend never building a site for a business totally out of flash because the only way your site will come up in the search engines is if you resort to linkfarming or cloaking, both of which are doubleplusungood and can get you permanently banned from Google and Yahoo (rightfully so, I might add!).