Ipaq 2215 vs 1940 for music and multimedia

[Hydra]

Hi all.. whats your general opinion on these two PDA's. I'd mainly be using it for multimedia applications, especially MP3 music, softsynth's like syntrax and pocket jam, and sampling. as well as picture and video viewing with slight editing. I'm assuming I'm gonna need fairly hefty storage space when using wav files and processing for multitimbral synth applications (I'm of course not assuming this is gonaa be an amazing music machine, but it'd be a great scratchpad for my trax)

If there is a different PDA out there in a similar price range that would be far greater for these applications then suggestions welcome.

Thanks all..

[Skitals]

I think both would do fine... 2210 is a little faster, but that wouldnt affect playback and viewing of music and photos. Playback of videos would be better on the 2210 though (higher bitrates).

Some good synth software for pocket pc is called Phoenix. I havent used it in a year or two but its really cool software :)

update: I feel like i made up the phoenix software because I cant find anything about it now :?

[Chris Spera]

If you're considering either the 2200 or the 1940, then go with the 2200. Its got both memory slots, and has proven to be a zippy performer. The 1940 should prove to be a good performer, but has some of the same memory limitations as the 1910 (tho not as bad...)

Based on these 2 points, I would think you'd be happier with the 2200.

Kind Regards,

Christopher Spera

[Kati Compton]

I'll point out that the 2 slots would also give you the potential for more storage for those multimedia files, or the ability to have one storage card and a Wifi card or some such.

[Skitals]

I think i did make up phoenix... I think I was http://www.planetgriff.com

Peace

[Hydra]

Thanks guys you've been most helpful, what's the sound quality like on the 2200, obviosly through headphones not the built in speaker, and I guess i could always patch it into my mixer and play along with it :lol:, It'll be great when (one day) PDA's will have 24bit A/D converters, perfect pocket synths...

[droppedd]

the 2210 sounds pretty good to my ears (and I'm a musician). However, something no one here has mentioned... you may want to wait a bit and see the new handhelds JVC is releasing, those are designed specifically for multimedia and such. May be worth holding out to see what those bring to the table.

That said, you definitely do NOT want the 1940 for your purposes. Only one slot, and that slot is SD, which is more expensive and only goes up to 512 MB right now; not to mention the headphone jack isn't a regular 1/8" size, it's one of those godforsaken headset-size 2.5mm ones that you need an adapter to use regular headphones with. Get a 2210 with a 256 or 512 SD card and a 1 gig CF card, and ideally one of those nifty Compact Flash high-quality audio input cards (don't have the link offhand but it's in the forum somewhere). Just be sure to check compatibility with the new Windows Mobile 2003 OS.

Good luck; let me know your adventures and misadventures in the world of PPC digital music, i'm very interested in more ways of using mine too (hmm... could make an cool little sampler for effects in concert for my band this year... ).

[Hydra]

Thanks dropedd.. I'm gonna stick withe the iPAQ's for now cause of their small size and weight, I like the idea of carrying it around with me incase I get an Idea.. Damn I'll never get any work done now :wink:

I was reading the excellent review in 'sound on sound mag' about the Griff music production suite that Skitals got me on too, It looks AMAZING.. sequencer, sampler, effects, synths, and now a tonewheel organ module 8) 8). The reviewer was using an iPAQ 3850 with a Strong ARM processor, "which is apparently better suited for DSP than some of the more recent Pocket PC devices based around Xscale processors" is this a limitation of the 2215 or does the 2215 use the same processor as the 3850. I really don't wan't to have to raise my price level to that of the more advanced iPAQ's if i don't have to, But I do want the best machine for my application. any ideas? hope I'm not too annoying with my Q's :D

:Hydra:

[Hydra]

Sorry Guys I actually "researched" my own answer and found out the 2215 uses the Xscale 400mhz processor as well which is perfect, and this model from what I can tell is virtually replacing the 3850 anyway. So I'm pretty much sold on it already :D,

Anyother music applications you might think of feel free to post em here cause I'd love to hear everyones thoughts and experiences using these cool little pocket pc's as a musical instrument...

:Hydra:

[maikii]

Well, a little OT, as I have nothing to contribute about 1940 vs. 2210--I just got a 2210, but it's the first PPC I've owned, and I've never tried a 1940. The storage difference with the CF slot could certainly make a difference for large multimedia files.

What I'm mostly curious about are the music software products you mentioned. Could you please write more about them, on this thread or another one?

I am a musician and music teacher, and have long been working with music software on PCs. Now, I just have had my first PPC a couple of days, and it would be handy to sometimes work with music on it.

I know it can play back MP3s. But what about for music creation, MIDI editing, etc.? I wish there was a version of Cakewalk for PPC, and a Band-in-a-Box version for the OS would sure be handy, a very little band to practice with!

PPC OS doesn't come with a software synth like Windows XP does, does it? But you mentioned some software synths. Please tell me more about them, and how one can try them out.

Someone here mentioned the product "Griff". I did download the trial version for that one, and tried it out a little. I'm not too impressed so far, but I really haven't tried it out much yet, and the trial version is very crippled, so it seems you can't try much. And I'm surprised that. although it seems to be able to save to MIDI (disabled in the trial version though), I didn't even see an option of importing a MIDI file. If one wants to transfer a file one was working on the desktop PC to the PPC to work on when one is away, for example, no way to transfer it, if "Griff"can't open a MIDI file. Does Griff contain its own softsynth?

Any more comments on music software for the PPC would be appreciated.

[droppedd]

Link to Core's PDAudio Compact Flash audio recording interface:
http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html

However, if your primary interest is in a portable audio recorder, you may not want a PocketPC at all (as to my knowledge, there is not a single multitrack recorder in existence for it). The synth software is quite nice, however; something that can't be matched on a standard midi-generating pocket recorder. You can then plug your pocket PC into one of these (http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Removable-Digital-Media-Multitracks--2882) for serious recording. Some of them have CF media, which means you can then just transfer the files onto your pocket PC for use, which is pretty neat.

I really don't know why they haven't made any multitrack recording software for PPC - it should be able to handle it, the processor is fast enough at least to handle 2-track recording, i'd imagine... guess they decided there just wasn't a huge market for it. Too bad. But still a decent solution for recording single-track live stuff - when my band starts playing, i'm going to leave my PPC recording while we rock out so i can put the songs straight onto my computer without having to deal with analog transfers. Pretty cool.

[Hydra]

Cool.. thanks for that link droppedd.. I've checked it out and it looks promising. My only concern is that it's only a digital interface so you can't actually record straight from mic and threfore will need another unit to be an A/D converter. This extra unit itself will also have to be powered therefore reducing the 'mobility' factor of the overall recording device...

But I see they have a Mic2496 pre-amp A/D converter in production and am keen to see how mobile (and expensive) this unit will be.

Not having true multitracking ability may be a little limiting, but I can see most users only needing to record to a single channel from a microphone anyway, and at up to 24bit the sound quality is potentially amazing (depending on the converters of course) for more serious mobile multitracking there are plenty of other devices around from the likes of fostex and Tascam, which are more dedicated to the task. some of them have CF also

I'm looking at using my PPC to record voice and ambient sounds to add as samples to my music, and being able to include beats and basslines, synth stabs and programmable filter sweeps through the likes of Griff and others is potentially a pretty darn powerful scratch pad. especially if (and I'm pretty sure you can) export all the sequences as MIDI files which I can use to control my hardware synths and VST plugins - I'm really getting excited now - 2 more weeks till Australian releease of the 2210 :clap: woohoo

[Skitals]

bahhhhh.... the 3.5mm jack on the 2210 doesnt double as a mic jack like my 5455's did, does it? that sucks.

[don dre]

as for the post on the JVC, I'd be very hesitant to buy a JVC b/c it seems that over time all the first generation (meaning a company's first foray) have had significant problems. which i guess is to be expected. it's hard to design and produce something flawlessly on your first try. Dell did so well b/c they just slap their name on it. I used to have a 3630, then a 3970, and now a 2200. Aside from the pelasure of not shellign out more than $300 for my ppc ( abrand new one at that) I'd have to say that I love it. The screen size is the biggest drawback but the size and weight make it worth it. i hardly know it's in my pocket even with my 1gb microdrive in it. it's fast and i use it for listening to music and audible books a lot. sounds good to me.

[droppedd]

bahhhhh.... the 3.5mm jack on the 2210 doesnt double as a mic jack like my 5455's did, does it? that sucks.

damn... i hadn't checked into that yet... how did that work on the 5455? was there a setting you had to change from "headphone" to "mic" or something?

I know the 2210 does support an external mic, at least through Bluetooth (there's a headset profile)... so it doesn't seem like it would've been that difficult to let the headphone jack support it... bah.

[caywen]

Before you read this, you should know that it was my intent for a long time to get the 2215, and that I still think the 2215 is a great PDA. I didn't want to like the 1940 because, well, it only has 1 SD slot and the lure of having CF+SD was enticing. However, the following things swayed my purchase:

1. The 1940 has a record button for a total of 5 buttons. I sometimes use it for recording, but I like to map it to the Start menu for quick access to programs while having 4 other buttons to apps.

2. The 1940 direction pad is tighter and less unpredictable. While using the 2215, I found myself having to be really careful depressing the action button - I would frequently press a direction by accident. This also sucks for me because I like to map the direction pad and action button to Windows Media Player commands while I jog. The loose action of it would cause too many music interruptions.

3. The 1940 screen, while more yellowish, has less "jitter" - I can see wavy "scanning" going on the 2215 while the 1940 is rock solid. Of course, I really wish I had the 1910 screen :?

4. Though similar in size, the 1940 still is significantly smaller and easier to pocket than the 2215. This is probably due to the roundness of the bottom and the amazing thinness of it. When I carry it in my coat pocket, I can barely tell it's there.

5. The 1940 is $100 cheaper. Can't argue with that.

6. Application-wise, I could not tell the difference AT ALL between the 1940 and 2215. They are both 100% snappy and responsive.

7. The file store is 14MB instead of only 3MB. Real minor thing here, but just an added bonus.

8. Matter of preference, but I like the 1940's app buttons better because the ideographs next to them are bigger and they are easier to depress.

Still, some things I wish I had:

1. Nevo - but I was willing to sacrifice the slight novelty to save $100
2. CF slot - this is the biggest thing by far. So many CF toys to buy. But, the main ones - camera and 802.11 will also be available in SD (though I have to remove my 256MB SD card).
3. ClearType tuner - my cleartype looks just fine though, so I don't need to tune it.
4. 1/8" jack - that adapter is really annoying. I went to Radio Shack and bought 2 more and they permanently live with my fave speakers and headphones.

All in all, I have to go with the 1940 because I get many things I prefer while saving $100. I'm not a wireless nut, so when I buy the SD 802.11 card, it'll only be for casual use - especially since T-Mobile service is so expensive.

Anyways, that was my purchase justification. Total tally:

iPaq 1940 : $299
256MB SD: $69
----------------------------
Total : $368

[Skitals]

Well you cant really argue that the 2210 is more expensive, I got mine for $267 from HP. That's cheaper then your 1940.

Granted, they do have their pluses and minues... the 2210 just seems to make more sense. Once you are as small as the 2210, size doesnt really matter anymore because they are both tiny. The 2210 is more expandable and thats what I needed.

[Dalantech]

When is your website going to go live? PDATreaks.com doesn't have many tweaks on it... ;)

[don dre]

For me it's the ability to have the CF permanently filled, like an hdd, and then use the second SDIO for things like WiFi. I have no complaints about the screen though it's not as nice as the 3970. The D-pad is a bit touchy an di's pretty damned small as it is. As it ges, they are both pretty good devices and it really depends on your needs and preferences.

[droppedd]

If I hadn't gotten the 2210 for $267 i'd actually quite agree the 1940 is a better value. Although if I were in the market I'd still like to see the Asus A620 when it gets out in the US... i've seen VERY good benchmarks for it (better than the 2210 at PocketQuake), and it has a CF slot (no SD, but i'd rather have one CF slot than an SD slot anyways).

Also, if you plan on getting a wi-fi card you may want to take into account the fact that when sdio wifi cards come out, they'll be significantly more expensive than CF ones (which you can get for as little as $30-$40 after rebates), which narrows the price gap between the 2210 and 1940. That price difference will likely remain for a while (look at the price difference between 512 MB SD and 512 MB CF, for example).

[caywen]

When your average consumer can walk into Best Buy or order it from Amazon for $267, I'd probably agree with your arguments. But special pricing deals not generally available to the rest of us don't really count. I can't get the $267 deal (could I?) and thus for me and most other people, the 1940 is $100 cheaper.

[droppedd]

When your average consumer can walk into Best Buy or order it from Amazon for $267, I'd probably agree with your arguments. But special pricing deals not generally available to the rest of us don't really count. I can't get the $267 deal (could I?) and thus for me and most other people, the 1940 is $100 cheaper.

You can get it for $293 if you're a high school or college student (or employee, i believe) direct from HP; the $267 seems to be no good anymore, though. My point is that even with the $100 gap in retail price, the 2210 may be in the same price range if you factor in the cost of a wifi card for the device (both a 2210 with wifi CF and a 1940 with wifi SD, if and when that's released, would run about $350 retail total). The fact that I personally got it for cheaper made it a complete no brainer for me, but it still warrants strong consideration over the 1940 if you plan on wifi-ing up. although the thinner unit is kind of tempting... but only single expansion :? ... eh. It's more a preference issue than a price issue, at least if you plan on getting a wireless card.

and getting back to the original topic of the thread - the 2210 is a much better choice for multimedia, for music making and recording and large video files especially, due to dual expansion (plus the cheaper CF media vs. SD in the 512MB+ range) and the capability for SPDIF input through an addon card. not to mention a normal sized headphone jack (no fumbling about with adapters is priceless, i can't tell you how often i've had to "improvise" because I didn't have the adapter I needed somewhere to plug my gear in to a soundboard or whatever). who knows... maybe some Griff samples will find their way into my band's sound this year (and i can plug it into my multieffects pedal to add effects in realtime... muwahahah).

[caywen]

Yes, it depends. For me, the $100 difference would diminish if I bought a wifi SD card, but the extra button, thinner form factor, slightly better screen, easier (for me) D-pad all make up for the lack of CF.

As for multimedia, my 256MB SD card works great. The 2.5mm jack is indeed annoying, but since I soldered a 2.5mm to my fave headphones (cut off the 1/8", solder on 2.5mm jack), it's no problem anymore.

Finally, I was never sure I wanted Wi-Fi in the first place, mainly because using it at Starbucks or other places costs money. This brings me back to why I use the net at all: email and 5-minutes of browsing. Hardly worth $29.95 per month or extra $10 per night at hotel room. And the time I waste hunting for free hotspots is just not worth the benefit.

No, I'd rather own a bluetooth phone and connect to the net that way. Wi-Fi for me is more a toy and curiosity than a productivity boon. So, I probably won't even buy the SD Wi-Fi card...

[droppedd]

Finally, I was never sure I wanted Wi-Fi in the first place, mainly because using it at Starbucks or other places costs money. This brings me back to why I use the net at all: email and 5-minutes of browsing. Hardly worth $29.95 per month or extra $10 per night at hotel room.

Agreed. I have wi-fi at the office and APs are in a lot of the major buildings on campus, so for me it's worth having. Otherwise it's a rip. The AP subscription services aren't really worth it at this point, especially if you're only using it for a PDA as opposed to a laptop.