Reading Palm's Future: Pundits Look Into the Palm-Handspring merger

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111447,tk,dn070403X,00.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pcworld.com/news/article...n070403X,00.asp</a><br /><br /></div>"With its recently announced acquisition of Handspring, Palm says it plans to focus on its software platform licensing business and beef up its line of handheld products and services. But some industry experts question what impact the buyout will have, pointing out that it's the operating system and price--not just the hardware and brand name--that make a handheld successful in the long run."<br /><br />This article analyses the possible impact that the Palm/Handspring merger will have. I think this line says it all:<br /><br /><i>"The new company will subsequently be divided into two units: handheld computing solutions and smartphone solutions."</i><br /><br />Palm will continue to go head to head with Pocket PCs, and Handspring assets will compete against the Microsoft Smartphone and Symbian platforms.

[Cortex]

Palm has survived the heart of the storm and will dominate the handheld world for at least the next 3 years. They deserve tremendous applause for continuing to keep the Goliath down. Like it or not, the Tungsten C/T and Zire 71 are innovative enough to keep their followers following. Their upcoming OS6 combined with the acquisition of Handspring will only strengthen their position. Sadly, Microsoft's enthusiasm for advancing the OS so hardware manufacturers can innovate seems to be nil. Mobile2003 allows users to run apps based on 3 year technology faster. Brilliant! The most tangible thing Microsoft could do to sway buyers is also the most visible -- increase the screen resolution. This is becoming the Achilles heel of hardware manufacturers....

The next thing Microsoft has to address is the frustration new users get to experience when they show up at work with their new device and try to synchronize it on a second machine.... "Welcome to Pocket PC" should play from the device as they watch the duplications and vanishing random appointments as ActiveSync performs it magic.

Lets also count the improvements Microsoft has made to its base applications over the last 3 years...
1. Word has spell check

Any others?

Its pathetic.

[sjmcloughlin]

As a Palm and a Pocket PC user, yes there is such a thing :lol: I think both operating systems have their own merits. However I will say this, Palm will need to continue to innovate if it wants to hold it's lead. The IPAQ 2210 is a fine machine. I think it's a real competitor to at least the Tungsten T and with a WiFi card it beats the Tungsten C. With the Tungsten C Palm have failed to introduced bluetooth drivers for their already established SD bluetooth card so it cannot be used with the Tungsten C. So you have a powerful Palm handheld with built in WiFi however one is unable to use it fully because it simply does not have bluetooth access and despite the many requests from Palm users, Palm has failed to produce drivers. Palm will lose many of its loyal followers to the 2210 because of the size, clarity, simplicity and beauty of such a handheld. Also the ability to use bluetooth and WiFi in one machine which obviously other IPAQ's have been able to do for a while. So as a frustrated Palm user why can Palm not produce the same? It is mistakes like this that will drive the masses to the Pocket PC / Windows Mobile. Apologies if I was a little off topic but I do feel it was an important point.

Sammy (webmaster and Editor of Palmaddict)

http://palmaddicts.blogspot.com/

Palmaddict is a website for Palm enthusiasts written by Palm enthusiasts covering news, views and opinion in the Palm community and is updated multiple times a day

[rosettaZ]

T|C is a very slow sell. I don't think that model is even worth spending time discussing.

Z71 is nice, however it's already outdated and underspec compared to h1945 and h2210, Let alone next buying season when everybody will have some sort of sub $199 models.

The biggest indicator of them all? Why are Palm users reading PPC news sites? :D (It's because nothing is happening in Palm)

------------
CBS market already overwrite Palm inc as a lost. THis is very funny considering Palm still have 55% of market share.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?guid=%7B70A41275-E565-452B-BB3B-7AA8575D9FB1%7D&siteid=myyahoo&dist=myyahoo

Of course product innovation will and should continue. But even in high-technology markets, there is a glut of R&D labs to invent the next iteration of gadgets; thus, the hot product is quickly copied by agile competitors or surpassed by the next wave of innovation within just a few years. You can trace this pattern in the history of Palm (PALM: news, chart, profile), Netscape, and dozens of other high-tech firms.

[sjmcloughlin]

rosettaZ, I am a Palm and Pocket PC user. Amazingly :D there are many people who do use both a Palm and a Pocket PC because of work issues etc and personally, I like to keep up to date with whats going on in both the Pocket PC world and the Palm community and it just so happens that I enjoy reading PPC Thoughts. As I say I think both platforms have their merits and as time continues it will be exciting to see what happens in both the Windows Media world and the Palm world. However I do respect what you are saying.

Sammy (webmaster and Editor of Palmaddict)

http://palmaddicts.blogspot.com/

Palmaddict is a website for Palm enthusiasts written by Palm enthusiasts covering news, views and opinion in the Palm community and is updated multiple times a day

[dh]

As a PPC user, I've been really interested in seeing the new hardware that the Palm OS people have been coming out with. It's wrong to say nothing ever happens in Palm. Look at the new designs from Palm (really) Sony and Garmin. Clever stuff some of them.

The device that interests me the most is the new Treo 600. I would seriously consider getting one of these when it is released. Someone had mentioned on one of the PPCT threads that there is a PIM rather like PI available for the Palm so that would make a change easier.

Most of the Smartphone type products until now have been too skimpy on features (SPV) or too big (Kyocera, Hitachi), the Treo 600 seems about right.

Of course the 600 is not due until October so there's plenty of time for something new to arrive in the meantime. There is also a problem in that I think it has a camera. Many of my customers do not allow cameras into their facilities and I don't want to have to leave all my data behind in the gatehouse.

I don't think I would buy a Palm PDA but could still be tempted to a new PPC PDA, especially if the much prodicted new Dell wireless model ever arrives.

In the short term, thank goodness for the trusty Axim.

[roberto_torres]

Z71 is nice, however it's already outdated and underspec compared to h1945 and h2210, Let alone next buying season when everybody will have some sort of sub $199 models.

The biggest indicator of them all? Why are Palm users reading PPC news sites? :D (It's because nothing is happening in Palm)

First: The zire is not outdated by the h1945 abd h2210. It still surpasses them in some key features, it has higher resolution (320x320) it has a very innovative built in cammera desing. (and by the way the zire is a low end device like the 1945 and should not be compared to midrange device like the h2210).

Second: Many users are using both platforms thats why. In the palm world there are things happenning mainly in software. Also many PPC users like myself are frustrated that Palm is getting more innovative while microsoft is getting more "simple". For example if an average user asks me about office compatiblility what I will tell him. PPC is better because it is made by MS but it deletes formatting from your documents. But Palm is worse just because it is not MS but has the advantage of keeping documents intact??? Also some important software is not being updated like Acrobat reader for PPC it is still in an old version, the pal os version just got updated to version 3.

Microsoft should innovate.

[mangochutneyman]

Palm may still have the upper hand in the OS arena -- Warren said Palm was the number one handheld OS in 2002, grabbing 80 percent of the market share.

HUH? PalmOS still has 80% of teh pda market? :?:

With the Tungsten C Palm have failed to introduced bluetooth drivers for their already established SD bluetooth card so it cannot be used with the Tungsten C.

Yeah, this was a pretty stupid move by PalmSG. This oversight coupled with the crappy mono output are two very extraordinary blunders IMO. :roll: How can you spend $500 bucks on a pda w/o stereo output? Sheesh! Anyway, the only recourse T|C users have will be the forthcoming Hagiwara BT SD cards for OS 5.x, which ave been delayed endlessly. If I'm gonna wait, then I'ld personally just get the Mio 558 instead!

Anyway having said this, the T|C is still a formidable competitor in the wireless pda segment. The high rez screen, speed and keypad definitely appeal to a large segment out there. However, in the end I think the article is right when they say the real competition is between OS platforms and not OEM's. I think iPaq's have as much brand recognition now as Palm etc. (Unfortunately the same cannot be said of other PPC OEMS) As of right now PPC2003 is still leaps and bounds superior PalmOS; however, if OS 6 is able to live up to all the hype, then the differences will not be as aparent...

[dermite]

I'm the author of a vertical market application that gives the handheld a pretty good work-out. It involves heavy database access (via SQL Server CE on the PPC), graphics, and encrypted network communications. It involves integration of multimedia with textual data, so a built-in camera is an advantage.

I first started developing this application on the Palm about 2 1/2 years ago. I then switched to the Pocket PC when I found the Palm just wasn't up to it, in either hardware or software. The Pocket PC version was finished about 1 1/2 years ago and has been well-received. But just recently I went back to the Palm version and finished that.

Of the two, I personally prefer the Palm version, running on the Zire 71. As I mentioned, the built-in camera is a great advantage. The Zire 71 has relatively good camera (of this type), and Palm makes available an SDK for integration with 3rd party apps (which will not be the case for the Viewsonic V37; I just asked them). And I think the usability of the Palm version is better.

The Palm is still more difficult to program than the Pocket PC, and the difference would be even greater for someone with a lot of exoerience in Windows development. The Zire 71 has only about 13 MB of usable main memory (and accessing it is much more difficult, programmatically, than on the PPC). And it doesn't have sound recording, which is a real drawback for my application.

But I still prefer it, for the reasons mentioned above, because ActiveStink really does, because the PPC's memory management is a joke (unless users remember to manually close applications, the device slows to a crawl or flakes out), because the difference between 320 x 240 and 320 x 320 is really quite noticeable, and because the Zire 71 is a better value than competing PPC devices.

Palm OS has made very significant progress over the past 2 years - from being unable to support an application such as mine to arguably supporting it better than the PPC. And Palm OS 6, due out in November, looks to represent real additional progress.

As a developer, I suppose it would be best for me if one of these two wins, so I"d have only 1 platform to support. And I wouldn't really care if is MS or Palm. But my point is this. MS might kill Palm in the marketplace; they obviously have the deep pockets to do so. But Palm OS is not stagnant. It did go through a period of relative stagnation, during which it amazingly retained its marketshare. But that period is over.

[TawnerX]

Porting OS 4.2 to ARM and adding audio feature doesn't sound like "very significant progress" to me.

Its more like temporary patch to get ARM to work with POS.

Where is the killer apps for ARMPOS? The two mp3 players? heh....

[Cortex]

Porting OS 4.2 to ARM and adding audio feature doesn't sound like "very significant progress" to me.

Its more like temporary patch to get ARM to work with POS.

Where is the killer apps for ARMPOS? The two mp3 players? heh....

its more than just looking at the OS without considering the progress that has been made over the years and limitations the OS imposes on manufacturers.

the pocketpc OS is cool because it supports multitasking, sound, etc... but think about this:

1997 Windows CE 1.0 was released supporting multitasking, audio, built in modems, PCMCIA slots, 480 or 640 x 280 black and white screens.

1998 Windows CE 2.0 was released for the Palm sized PC reducing the screen size to 320x240 and butchering the GUI. pocket access is ditched and the functionality of the other applications (outlook, word, excel) are reduced further.

1999 Windows CE 2.1 for Palm sized PCs was released adding color and refining the GUI.

now windows mobile 2003 is out (6 YEARS AFTER CE 1.0!!!) and there is minimal added functionality to the core apps. THATS RIGHT -- YOU ARE RUNNING SOFTWARE APPLICATIONS THAT ARE SIX YEARS OLD ONLY NOW ITS RUNNING FASTER AND WITH MORE STORAGE. WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!

arguably, the windows OS is actually preventing manufacturers from making better devices because it stipulates that the screen resolution is 320x240. someday we may make it back to 1998 and actually have higher resolution screens.

i recommend taking a trip through history and looking at the devices from 1997 and 1998 and ask has the windows CE OS made much progress in the last 5-6 years?

> HISTORY &lt; (http://www.cewindows.net/version.htm)

microsoft should be doing better. we should have highly functional core applications. we should have an advanced synchronization process that WORKS. we should be using higher resolution devices.

i think we are actually being taken for a ride and microsoft is milking us for all we are worth (much like palm just finished doing for the last 5 years)....

[Janak Parekh]

i recommend taking a trip through history and looking at the devices from 1997 and 1998 and asking has the windows CE OS made much progress in the last 5-6 years?
I see it and feel it when I use the devices every day. Did you actually use a PSPC? I had the opportunity to work with a Nino, and it was weak, in so many ways. Poor SIP options. Poor multimedia (no MP3 support!) Slow. Needed frequent resets. Lacking UI. Horrible, unreliable sync support. Promising, but not practical. The customer I sold it to ended up never using it.

The current Pocket PCs are light-years ahead of what those old devices were. True, the original CE 1.0 kernel was ahead of its time, and that's evolved less. But the devices have come a long way, in my opinion.

--janak

[TawnerX]

&lt;quote cortex>

CE changes kernel, API, UI during the time line you mentioned, even the built in apps are added.

now, did Palm even bother to change the icon design? lol
oh right it was black and white 6 years ago, now it's blue... weeee

I recommend YOU look at Palm history and see if it changes or just one continuous patch and minor tweak after another.

and really OS 5.0 is just OS 4.2 running on ARM, big deal. That's why it has such a difficulty with browser keep crashing, or developer can't make a quick adaptation of rich multimedia player. The OS is too primitive to support such apps.

some model doesn't even have stereo out.. :roll:

gawd...

[Cortex]

I see it and feel it when I use the devices every day. Did you actually use a PSPC? I had the opportunity to work with a Nino, and it was weak, in so many ways. Poor SIP options. Poor multimedia (no MP3 support!) Slow. Needed frequent resets. Lacking UI. Horrible, unreliable sync support. Promising, but not practical. The customer I sold it to ended up never using it.

The current Pocket PCs are light-years ahead of what those old devices were. True, the original CE 1.0 kernel was ahead of its time, and that's evolved less. But the devices have come a long way, in my opinion.

--janak

I liked the Nino. Also check out the Casio EM-100 (CE 2.11), it had stereo out in 1999 and I'm not even sure the mp3 codec had been created then...

Our current incarnation of the user interface GUI was created in 2000 with version 3.0 (yep we've been using it for 3 years) and it was a minor upgrade (they added a Today screen and stuck the start button on the top instead of the bottom. They also got rid of the CLOSE BUTTON :evil: )from the original palmsize GUI created in 1999 with CE 2.11.

I agree that the hardware has changed -- namely CPU speed, memory size, and miniturization. I dont consider the optimization of the OS for a particular processor to be an impressive acheivement. They just massaged the same code and recompiled it.

As far as instability :lol: I reset my T-Mobile PPC phone almost as much as I use the ON/OFF switch!

And "Horrible, unreliable sync support." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Youre right.... ActiveSync has come a long way :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(I think i wet myself 8O )

Someone is going to mention expansion so I'll point out again that the original CE 1.0 devices supported PCMCIA cards so the expansion was there.

even the built in apps are added

actually we are using scaled down versions of the original applications that came with Windows CE 1.0. thats right, Pocket PC Mobile 2003 Word, Excel, and Outlook are LESS FUNCTIONAL than the apps in the original windows CE 1.0. not to mention one of the applications (that I liked a lot) was thrown out -- we lost Pocket Access!

I used to use a Velo500 and I find it pretty ironic that people are drooling over the latest Sharp clamshell (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=132390&sid=6333273cbf1194a861ba5345338d846c) when it is actually a color Velo500 with a flip screen and todays processor and memory. I do look forward to returning to at least a 640 x 240 screen :roll:

I also came across this story and its pretty funny!
> THIS &lt; (http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_3046.html)

[Janak Parekh]

I liked the Nino. Also check out the Casio EM-100 (CE 2.11), it had stereo out in 1999 and I'm not even sure the mp3 codec had been created then...
MP3 was long available before that, just not broadly used. As for the Nino, it was very cute, but bulky and the battery life was strictly subpar. IMHO, the E-100 was the first PSPC worth having.

Our current incarnation of the user interface GUI was created in 2000 with version 3.0 (yep we've been using it for 3 years) and it was a minor upgrade from the original palmsize GUI created in 1999 with CE 2.11.
Hmm, I disagree, and we'll probably have to leave it at that. The CE 2.x interface was severely clunky, and needed a lot more taps than PPC2k/2k2/2k3.

They just messaged the same code and recompiled it.
Ha! That is so far from the case, it's not funny.

As far as instability :lol: I recet my T-Mobile PPC phone almost as much as I use the ON/OFF switch!
I agree the T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone isn't the best in stability... but I think that's a device-specific issue. I didn't reboot my 3870 in months, except for BT operation, which was a driver loading issue that's been resolved in PPC2k3.

And "Horrible, unreliable sync support." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(I think i wet myself 8O )
Dude, do you not remember Services for Windows CE? It was a billion times worse than ActiveSync. ActiveSync is the most stable technology compared to that stinkin' piece of crap.

I used to use a Velo500 and I find it pretty ironic that people are drooling over the latest Sharp clamshell (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=132390&sid=6333273cbf1194a861ba5345338d846c) when it is actually a color Velo500 with a flip screen and todays processor and memory.
What exactly do you think should be done, may I ask? The Velo 500 was a monochrome 480x240 display, 75MHz processor, 16MB of RAM. The new Sharps are light-years ahead, with more in every category -- and it's more compact.

I also came across this story and its pretty funny!
> THIS &lt; (http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_3046.html)[/url]
:pukeface: AnchorDesk's predictions were never worth a grain of salt, in either direction.

--janak

[Cortex]

Dude, do you not remember Services for Windows CE? It was a billion times worse than ActiveSync. ActiveSync is the most stable technology compared to that stinkin' piece of crap.

Services 2.1 was ok (1999) but we've had ActiveSync since 2000 and honestly it has become more unstable (at least for synchronizing with 2 machines).

What exactly do you think should be done, may I ask? The Velo 500 was a monochrome 480x240 display, 75MHz processor, 16MB of RAM. The new Sharps are light-years ahead, with more in every category -- and it's more compact.

the point im making is that although the hardware has improved, the software is actually holding things back by not improving the built in applications and restricting the resolution to 320x240....

:pukeface: AnchorDesk's predictions were never worth a grain of salt, in either direction.

--janak

its still funny

[Janak Parekh]

Services 2.1 was ok (1999) but we've had ActiveSync since 2000 and honestly it has become more unstable (at least for synchronizing with 2 machines).
Services 2.1 was not OK. I agree, though, that ActiveSync has work to do. We all do.

the point im making is that although the hardware has improved, the software is actually holding things back by not improving the built in applications and restricting the resolution to 320x240....
No argument on the screen resolution issue, although (a) I don't believe that's generalizable to all of the featureset of Pocket PCs; and (b) the Sharp you cite is 640x480 and running Linux.

--janak

[Cortex]

No argument on the screen resolution issue, although (a) I don't believe that's generalizable to all of the featureset of Pocket PCs; and (b) the Sharp you cite is 640x480 and running Linux.
--janak

I'm not knocking all of the pocket pc features (I love my T-Mo PPC Phone resets and all!), I'm just pointing out that the core apps suck -- they were better on my Velo500 and the resolution is lame and Microsoft has had 6 YEARS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!

As far as the Sharp goes -- I was confusing it with the Nexio -- which runs CE.net and has a 640x480 screen :cry: .

[Janak Parekh]

I'm not knocking all of the pocket pc features (I love my T-Mo PPC Phone resets and all!), I'm just pointing out that the core apps suck -- they were better on my Velo500 and the resolution is lame and Microsoft has had 6 YEARS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!
Amen for the most part, but that doesn't translate to the operating system not having changed noticeably. ;)

As far as the Sharp goes -- I was confusing it with the Nexio -- which runs CE.net and has a 640x480 screen :cry: .
Which is an interesting device in itself...

--janak

[roberto_torres]

Porting OS 4.2 to ARM and adding audio feature doesn't sound like "very significant progress" to me.

Its more like temporary patch to get ARM to work with POS.

Where is the killer apps for ARMPOS? The two mp3 players? heh....

Hey there is the resolution (320x320 and 320x480), WI-FI support, 3D game capabilities (there is a device comming with a built in ATI 3D Card) also there is even a DivX player.

I want to see more resolution in the PPC, and better office support (and I am not talking about features I mean compatibility not to change formatting in documents).

[Timothy Rapson]

I'm the author of a vertical market application that gives the handheld a pretty good work-out. .


Wow, I spend all my time here, at PalmInfocenter, etc.

I can't remember ever reading a post that was so

contentful, grounded in real experience. reasonable, insightful, balanced, and sound.

Tell me, as a developer, in a tread that provides the context of the Zire 71, how in the world has it happened that there are now NO PPCs with cameras built-in but tons of third part photo-editing softeware, yet in the Palm OS world with 7 models now available with built-in cameras there is not a single third party photo-editing program?

This is driving me CRAZY! All it would take is for TealPoint to finaly redo TealPaint or AcidImage to add a few basic editing features to their viewer. Could this really be this hard? For crying out loud, PPC 2003 now includes a photo viewer that probably (I don't know for sure) is more powerful than that included in the Zire71 and they don't have a camera built into any of them.

Oh well.

[Cortex]

how in the world has it happened that there are now NO PPCs with cameras built-in but tons of third part photo-editing softeware, yet in the Palm OS world with 7 models now available with built-in cameras there is not a single third party photo-editing program? ...


While not built in, camera's have been available for the Windows CE platform for a long time (at least 1999) mainly utilizing the PCMCIA and CF expansion slots.

> CASIO CF CAMERA &lt; (http://reviews.cnet.com/Casio_JK_710DC_Digital_Camera_Card/4505-3135_7-1478695.html?tag=upidmlp)

> HP CF CAMERA &lt; (http://www.movitienda.com/accesorios/13825.htm)

Sharp, Casio, and HP all had camera attachments at one time. The enthusiasm for it died down after digital cameras far surpassed the performance of a WinCE camera. Now that camera components have become so cheap (thanks to phone companies integrating them into their phones in an effort to increase bandwidth revenues as people send image files back and forth) manufacturers are sticking them back into handhelds.

I think the > SHARP MOBILON &lt; (http://www.pygmy.com/reseller/hc4500.htm) was the first.

[mangochutneyman]

Tell me, as a developer, in a tread that provides the context of the Zire 71, how in the world has it happened that there are now NO PPCs with cameras built-in but tons of third part photo-editing softeware, yet in the Palm OS world with 7 models now available with built-in cameras there is not a single third party photo-editing program?


Actually the Viewsonic V36 does include an integrated camera...

[Jason Dunn]

Actually the Viewsonic V36 does include an integrated camera...

So does the Samsung i700. Get with the times Timothy! :wink:

[scottmag]

The biggest indicator of them all? Why are Palm users reading PPC news sites? :D (It's because nothing is happening in Palm)

I know that's kind of a joke, but I'll give you a straight answer. It's because the level of discourse here is far better than at Palm-focused sites like Palminfocenter. Despite my occasional criticism, Jason has build a superior site.

As for the relative gains of either Palm or PocketPC, remember that it is far easier to achieve tremendous gains from a low base. So PocketPC has dramatically increased market share and lowered costs while Palm has rolled out powerful new handheld models and will soon have a powerful multitasking OS.

I see the field as pretty level these days in both features and prices. We are getting to the point where one will choose the platform based on interface preferences and infrastructure integration (e.g., Exchange or a wireless messaging solution).

As for the Handspring merger, I really like Palm getting serious about the smartphone market. I also look forward to seeing what Microsoft can do to win over consumers to their Smartphone platform.

Scott

[Timothy Rapson]

[quote="Cortex
.[/quote]

Yes, I saw those add on cameras in the form of the original Casio in the movie Eight Legged Freaks. The little kid got to be a geek, who carried a Casio E100 with the camera attached, though he never used it to take a picture. Anyway, that is why I wrote "built in". I just want one with a camera built in.

[Timothy Rapson]

Tell me, as a developer, in a tread that provides the context of the Zire 71, how in the world has it happened that there are now NO PPCs with cameras built-in but tons of third part photo-editing softeware, yet in the Palm OS world with 7 models now available with built-in cameras there is not a single third party photo-editing program?


Actually the Viewsonic V36 does include an integrated camera...

Actually, that should read "will' include......it is not out yet, or at least was not when I posted.

[Timothy Rapson]

Actually the Viewsonic V36 does include an integrated camera...

So does the Samsung i700. Get with the times Timothy! :wink:

Well, PriceGrabber shows no such product as a Samsung i700 available in for sale. Yes, of course, I know what it is...will be, and I suppose counting the Treo 600 (which won't ship until after the i700 and the ViewSonic V36) makes your comments fair game, but I have had this Clie NR70V right in my pocket taking pictures for a full year and still don't have that photo app. That just really seems wrong, terribly wrong to me.

You guys can download and have the photo programs just waiting for those camera models to arrive.