iPAQ 1910 Petition Site

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketwerkz.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketwerkz.com/</a><br /><br /></div>Well, we all saw this coming the moment HP said they wouldn't offer a Windows Mobile 2003 upgrade for the 1910. Just like the Toshiba petition, I support this one fully and have signed it. I have a 1910 that my wife uses now, and considering how new the device is, I find it unacceptable that no upgrade is being offered. The 16 MB ROM limitation is not a valid excuse - Pocket PC 2002 didn't fit into it either, and users were more than happy to use up RAM to get the components they needed. It was frustrating enough that HP never offered a Windows Media Player 8.5 update for it - I consoled myself by thinking that when Windows Mobile 2003 came out, I'd get the WMP9 on there. No dice. Bad HP, bad! :evil:<br /><br />"The Hewlett Packard (HP) company, purveyors of fine handheld computing devices, is apparently under the misconception that owners of the HP iPaq 1910 device are not power users and, as such, are not worthy of the same software support as other fine iPaq devices. First, HP decided not to make available the Windows Media Player 8.5 update for the HP iPaq 1910 even though the Microsoft update was available around the time of the 1910's date of availability. Second, they have not made any maintenance updates available to 1910 owners while offering multiple updates to other iPaq devices of the same vintage. Lastly, and the primary reason for this petition, HP currently has no plans to provide an upgrade to the Windows PPC 2003 operating system for the HP iPaq 1910 device."

[pez]

Coulda sworn on HP's Press Release they said 16mb ROM was insufficent to hold the OS... So what is the point of even debating with HP? Thats the users fault for buying it :P

[Newsboy]

If HP's press release says that, they're lying. Flat out. The Toshiba e355 comes with WM2003PPC pre-installed, and only has a 16 MB flash ROM. There is technically no reason they can't do the upgrade.

[sponge]

If they actually want to get something done, they should use a real paper petition. Farscape, Futurama, Family Guy all had stupid online petitions, and that got nowhere fast. Protests against all sorts of laws, nothing. Are we going to see one of these rediculous petitions for every device that can't be upgraded? (beacuse it's likely not economically viable)

[PocketRobot]

:?: HP's excuse doesn't seem to hold water. If the H1940 can be shipped with the same ROM configuration and have PPC 2003 why can't the H1910 be upgraded to the same OS? :?:

[arebelspy]

I want it for my 3600 too!

But the reason it won't be provided for that is because they want me to buy a whole new PPC.. why make new OS compatible with old device if they can make me pay for a new device?

But I don't understand why it isn't available for the 1910.

-arebelspy

[Tierran]

If they actually want to get something done, they should use a real paper petition. Farscape, Futurama, Family Guy all had stupid online petitions, and that got nowhere fast. Protests against all sorts of laws, nothing. Are we going to see one of these rediculous petitions for every device that can't be upgraded? (beacuse it's likely not economically viable)

Oooh, companies love people like you. You must be the guy who goes out to eat and doesn't care if there dishes are washed and the food is cooked, you just pay up since its your obligation to be nicey nice and not raise any trouble.

[bigkingfun]

Could it be that these companies don't offer to release these updates so they can gauge the demand? If they say they won't release it and there is no serious backlash, why put the money and time into creating the update? If enough people speak out about it, maybe they will put the resources into it.

Just a thought...

[Foo Fighter]

I can certainly sympathize with the anger and disappointment over being left out in the cold, but.....did HP, at any time, promise to give you future OS upgrades? When you purchased your 1910, did it come with yellow sticky note saying you could upgrade to PPC 2003+?

If Dell annouced they weren't offering upgrades for Axim owners, I would certainly be disappointed...even annoyed. But I wouldn't be ranting and raving because Dell never made any indication to me, as a consumer, that I would be given access to future OS releases.

But..I know how you guys feel. :grumble:

[Enderet]

grrr...I cant believe nobody is jumping at the 2215 for 293 dollar offer... you could all forget about this upgrading stuff :twisted:

[Tierran]

Well, from the Toshiba side, in the article I wrote over at PDA Avenue before doing the petition, I acknowledge that Toshiba isn't under any sort of obligation to do this. But if you make enough noise you never know if they will...and then its worth it (especially for us...we're sitting here with devices that would be tremendously improved with this OS)

[sponge]

Tierran: So your saying the lack of an upgrade is harming your physically, and stopping your device from working?

[cmorris]

:?: HP's excuse doesn't seem to hold water. If the H1940 can be shipped with the same ROM configuration and have PPC 2003 why can't the H1910 be upgraded to the same OS? :?:

The H1940 doesn't have the same ROM configuration - it will ship with 32 MB of ROM.

As was stated earlier though, Toshiba has done it with 16 MB.

[igreen]

I'll be interested to see what the upgrade includes for the 5400 series. Will HP strip out Nevo????????

[Hyperluminal]

grrr...I cant believe nobody is jumping at the 2215 for 293 dollar offer... you could all forget about this upgrading stuff :twisted:
What 2215 for $293?

[DaleReeck]

If they actually want to get something done, they should use a real paper petition. Farscape, Futurama, Family Guy all had stupid online petitions, and that got nowhere fast. Protests against all sorts of laws, nothing. Are we going to see one of these rediculous petitions for every device that can't be upgraded? (beacuse it's likely not economically viable)

You just named three of my favorite TV shows :)

[Tierran]

Tierran: So your saying the lack of an upgrade is harming your physically, and stopping your device from working?

Ah, your limited view of the sitution shows that, in fact, you don't know what you're talking about.

In answer to your first question...you're just stupid.

In answer to your second question...YES. Toshiba of America will not supply Toshibe e740 users with an update that fixes several SERIOUS bugs with our device. The most serious is the fact that we cannot maintain an ActiveSync connection. Some of us who are very active in teh community have managed to get an unauthorized fix to the issues, but many people out there have no knowledge of its even existance.

We were hoping that Toshiba was going to incorporate this major bug fix into WM2k3 so without it, yes, my device technically does not work correctly. And Toshiba hasn't shown any inclination that they're going to fix it. Our petition is about far more than WM2k3 but their overall poor support in general.

[Ed Hansberry]

This is frustrating. how will they treat 1900 and 2200 owners when the next version comes out? :grumble:

[Hyperluminal]

Never mind, I found the deal for $293. :)

[sponge]

The bugfixes you SHOULD have, I don't think you shouldn't, that is something that should be covered by support. I made my posts in this thread assuming you had a 1910 (since it IS a thread about the 1900 series)

[Jason Dunn]

Coulda sworn on HP's Press Release they said 16mb ROM was insufficent to hold the OS... So what is the point of even debating with HP? Thats the users fault for buying it :P

Uh - the 1910 couldn't hold the whole Pocket PC 2002 OS, and they still sold it. The users were just required to install several components (WMP, MS Reader, Terminal Services) into RAM. How is this any different?

[Tierran]

The bugfixes you SHOULD have, I don't think you shouldn't, that is something that should be covered by support. I made my posts in this thread assuming you had a 1910 (since it IS a thread about the 1900 series)

Heh, no, just a disgruntled Toshiba customer ;) Though I do support what the 1910 users are doing. HP isn't obligated to do anything for them and any people who think that are misled, but it doesn't hurt anyone to try. The worst that can happen is that already unhappy customers are going to remain unhappy...but the best that can happen is people get what they want. And that's part of being a smart consumer eh?

[Gremmie]

If they actually want to get something done, they should use a real paper petition. Farscape, Futurama, Family Guy all had stupid online petitions, and that got nowhere fast. Protests against all sorts of laws, nothing. Are we going to see one of these rediculous petitions for every device that can't be upgraded? (beacuse it's likely not economically viable)

Well sorta, I mean they deceided not to for a reason, the point is that it is suppose to reinfoce the opposite. If you can reinforce there is significant demand, then they may release a pack. Then again, it might be a lesson with later devices as they make decisions about PPC 2004. Family Guy and Futurama are on Adult Swim now, Fox didn't see it, but the Cartoon Network saw the demand for it.

By the way, the online petition for the 38xx/39xx got major attention. :bangin:

[mscdex]

Anyone know if a PPC2k3 Petition for 36xx/37xx users exists out there? If so, I'd be glad to sign it...

[dcharles18]

First, any links to the $293 deal would be appreciated . . .

Second, you've got to admit that you could see this coming with the 1910. I was seriously considering this device but decided against it for precisely this reason, I had a feeling it was to be a 'throw-away' device and would not be upgradable.

Lastly, good point Ed, I was thinking the same thing myself in regards to the 2200, granted, I've never kept a device as long as MS's typical 18 month turn-around time for a new OS, so it may not be as much of an issue to me.

EDIT: Disregard item one, I just found the thread. :wink:

[Mike Temporale]

grrr...I cant believe nobody is jumping at the 2215 for 293 dollar offer... you could all forget about this upgrading stuff :twisted:

Lets see, $30 for an upgrade CD, or $293 for a new larger/heavier device that would require a new vaja case, and new accessories. :roll:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

This is frustrating. how will they treat 1900 and 2200 owners when the next version comes out? :grumble:
Well I think the memory configuration IS the reason. Even though it may be technically feasible, it is perhaps an additional step that HP isn't willing to take. I would assume if the next upgrade can fit into the std 64/32 memory config, then I see no reason to doubt that the 22xx wont be supported for future upgrades (if you look at all the devices HP did include for an upgrade, the memory config was the commonality). I never felt that level of comfort w/ the 1910.

[Ed Hansberry]

Well I think the memory configuration IS the reason. Even though it may be technically feasible, it is perhaps an additional step that HP isn't willing to take. I would assume if the next upgrade can fit into the std 64/32 memory config, then I see no reason to doubt that the 22xx wont be supported for future upgrades (if you look at all the devices HP did include for an upgrade, the memory config was the commonality). I never felt that level of comfort w/ the 1910.
Well, the 3700 isn't being supported, though that might have sold in small volumes. Memory is no excuse. The 1910 held PPC 2002 Pro and there is a PPC 2003 Pro with RAM installs.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Well, the 3700 isn't being supported, though that might have sold in small volumes. Memory is no excuse. The 1910 held PPC 2002 Pro and there is a PPC 2003 Pro with RAM installs.
I certainly agree that HP could do it and there is certainly strong argument that they should do it. I just don't think this action necessarily means that the 22xx line will fall victim next. Had the 1910 shipped with the 64/32 config, I have no doubt it would have been included. Again, not meant as an excuse... just an observation.

As for the 37xx, you're right. Of course that line has a major history of stability issues (different from the 38xx which was a terrible performer but still stable), so I wonder if that was a factor.

[Crystal Eitle]

I signed it. I support their efforts to have an upgrade made available to 1910 owners, even though I'm pretty happy with my device. Considering that the 1910 just came out about six months ago (and two months ago in Europe), it's a bit baffling why HP wouldn't offer an upgrade.

[thomas1973]

Memory is no excuse. The 1910 held PPC 2002 Pro and there is a PPC 2003 Pro with RAM installs.
Hear, hear! I'd also like to add the 1915 I've got was made available in Denmark only 6 weeks before the release of PPC2003! It's not like HP didn't know! I really feel like they 'owe' me an upgrade. I'd be willing to pay for it, but buying a totally new PPC, that's 'obsolete' as far as upgrading goes, only 6 weeks later? Come on HP! :really mad:

I'm very happy with my 1915, but I would like the PPC2003 to get the speed increase of the PXA255 and PPC2003 working together.

I signed the petition, hope it helps. :roll:


Thomas.

[skypilot]

I'm having a real hard time with the tone of this thread.

Bug fixes and patches to PPC 2002 are absolutely crucial and if HP, Toshiba or anyone stopped supporting a 1 year old model, they should be held accountable.

But to beat HP up because they're not devoting resources to provide an OS upgrade that, for the most part, doesn't even relate to the 1910 is ridiculous and a waste of time...........

[konfoo]

Come on, you should well know how the release cycles of these devices work. When a new OS platform is released. development staff are moved from legacy platforms to the new platforms. All that remains for the legacy platform are skeleton staff, and they are usually matrixed with the new platform. The alternative is that the legacy code is assigned to some interns and/or 'newbies'. Don't count on seeing any (or maybe any at all) major firmware updates for PPC2002 on the 1910.

[kaiden.1]

After thinking about things and reading the posts over the past few days from Toshiba and now the mighty Ipaq group of HP, I think that I understand something I had never thought about. Yes the upgrade issue really piss... me off! :twisted:

I think that part of the problem is one that all of us GEEKS have created. Everytime a new device hits the market we go out and shell out another $$$ bucks for the newest and neatest device thinking that we will be missing out if we don't purchase it.

The problem is that I think we have created the idea that PPC's are a Consumable Product, like cologne or perfume. You usually have several different bottles sitting on the shelf. You use a certain one for a while then move on to something else. Ultimately we end up with a collection of cologne that we end up throwing away, still buying the newer ones coming out. Perhaps teh essage that the manufacturers have out there is that any PPC has a shelf life of one year and they know that next year we will run out and get the next newest PPC that they put out on the market. So what is the need to try and put up with an upgrade? The PPC is a consumable product. The public buys it and uses it for a while and then goes out to get the next new one. If we would stop buying the next newest PPC and kept our old ones demanding that we get upgrades, maybe the manufacturers will stop thinking the way that they do. We need to stop this type of thinking. WE need to have our PPC's lasting us longer than 6-12 months! :evil:

[Programmer]

Even if they don't want to (or cant) provide an upgrade to the current 1910 device they could offer an upgrade to us (as in 'we' and not the 'country') owners.

Give us a $100 coupon to upgrade to 1940.

[Newsboy]

Hmmm. I wonder if HP is hearing the low rumble being generated by the 1910 owners. Supposedly today was the day to check back for information on the PPC2003 upgrade on their site. Still, nothing has been posted on their upgrade page.

I for one am keeping my fingers crossed.

[Jason Dunn]

The problem is that I think we have created the idea that PPC's are a Consumable Product, like cologne or perfume. You usually have several different bottles sitting on the shelf. You use a certain one for a while then move on to something else.

You're more right than you know. I think many of the OEMs are selling them as "appliances" (microwave, toaster, etc.) rather than real computers. You'd never upgrade the former, but the latter is upgraded all the time. Because Pocket PCs are "closed boxes", on the surface, they have a lot in common with appliances.

[thomas1973]

But to beat HP up because they're not devoting resources to provide an OS upgrade that, for the most part, doesn't even relate to the 1910 is ridiculous and a waste of time...........
I know a lot of the PPC2003 features are the WiFi connections and so on, but I would like to have the extra speed PPC2003 seems to offer.

Come on, you should well know how the release cycles of these devices work. When a new OS platform is released. development staff are moved from legacy platforms to the new platforms. All that remains for the legacy platform are skeleton staff, and they are usually matrixed with the new platform.
I know how it works, but I don't have to like it, and I can still get mad over it! I just don't think what HP seems to be doing is the decent thing to do! I really don't feel this is how they should treat customers! :evil: As I said, I bought my device 6 weeks ago, and then it's really annoying that HP doesn't seem to offer an upgrade, especially as a 16 MB ROM PCC2003 Pro is supposedly available from MS. A little token of appreciation from HP to us geeks would be nice.

I think that part of the problem is one that all of us GEEKS have created. Everytime a new device hits the market we go out and shell out another $$$ bucks for the newest and neatest device thinking that we will be missing out if we don't purchase it.
I know. What can I say; I'm a gadget junkie. I can't help it. And HP and other OEM's know it and use it. New...device....in....store. Have....to...have....new...device....

A PPC2003 upgrade would be kind of a methadone program until I could afford the real thing.


Thomas.

[Gordo]

I spoke with my pocket book. I just switched back to Palm! I purchased a low end Clie and am now happily using the device. I have retired my 36xx device.

[bbarker]

This is frustrating. how will they treat 1900 and 2200 owners when the next version comes out? :grumble:
Well I think the memory configuration IS the reason. Even though it may be technically feasible, it is perhaps an additional step that HP isn't willing to take. I would assume if the next upgrade can fit into the std 64/32 memory config, then I see no reason to doubt that the 22xx wont be supported for future upgrades (if you look at all the devices HP did include for an upgrade, the memory config was the commonality). I never felt that level of comfort w/ the 1910.
MS required upgradable ROM beginning with PPC 2002, suggesting that we might expect an upgrade. I certainly expected to be able to upgrade my computer from Windows Me to Windows XP.

The Jornada 568 can handle this upgrade but HP isn't providing providing it. So don't buy any HP product assuming it will be upgradeable to PPC 2004 a year from now. AT that time your new 2200 will be the same age my Jornada is now.

[dudeman]

here it is a long time away and i still feel screwed i see all these new programs and capabilities for the pda's (some with identical specs )
that i cant install cause im running pocket pc 2002 not windows mobile 2003

please hp just give us one thing a very small update

make it so that us 1910/1915 users can install these programs

make it just say mobile 2003 so we can install voice command

there is tons of programs that are only very slightly dependent on mobile 2003 and i would buy microsoft voice command if it would run on my device


i dont care about the extra effects or any of that


give us a windows mobile light edition

with only the things required to run programs that require windows mobile