iPAQ Upgrade Response from HP

[Jason Dunn]

I was curious about the HP upgrade policy as it related to the 3700 and 1910, so I asked my contacts there a question, and this was the response I received:<br /><br />"HP will be offering Pocket PC 2003 upgrades for the H5450, H3900 and H3800 Series product lines. Yes, you are correct that we will not offer one for the H3600 product , we provided a PPC 2002 upgrade for that product. For your H1910 question: we are focusing our upgrades on the h5450, h3900 and h3800 families since these products target our enterprise customers that typically require these upgrades. (Additional information: The H1910 product line only has a 16MB ROM which does not fit Microsoft Pocket PC 2003 Premium version)."<br /><br />Not terribly surprising that the 3600 and 3700 series devices aren't supported, but I am surprised to see that they have no upgrade plan in place for the 1910. That's a new device that has sold very well, and Pocket PC 2002 premium didn't fit in ROM either - but they still released it with RAM installers for some of the applications. My wife has a 1910, and I'm a little ticked I won't be able to upgrade it Windows Mobile 2003, even if it would have taken more of the RAM to store the OS in. :| Thumbs down to HP for leaving 1910 owners out in the cold, even if it was a "budget" device.

[nightmare]

Are these 33 minute articles lined up clear till next OS release? Jeez... glad I didn't stay up all night.

[Newsboy]

Amen brother! I think my 1910 is going to be saying hello to Ebay very shortly. List me as another disatisfied customer. *grumble grumble*

[Anthony Caruana]

I guess that "budget device" = lower profit margin = less long term development.

Perhaps one of the things that OEMs could you, given the amount of aggravation caused by some of their upgrade policies, would be to publish the next step of the upgrade path they would offer.

Eg - if you buy an iPAQ5400 and an OS upgrade is released by a particular date then customers would be provided a ROM upgrade to the new OS at a cost. I don't know if that would be practical but it would avoid some of the anger being sounded on the message boards at this site, particularly from Toshiba owners.

That way, customers would know at the time they purchased their device whterh there was a real upgrade path. I think that customers have had an assumption that the presence of a flash ROM, a prerequisite for getting the Pocket PC sticker, automatically meant that there was upgrade path. Really, all that the flash ROM meant was that there was an opportunity for an upgrade path

That's my $0.05

[Janak Parekh]

Are these 33 minute articles lined up clear till next OS release? Jeez... glad I didn't stay up all night.
No. :lol: I think we'd all die if we had to keep up this rate. We've been working like crazy to keep these showing up. Crystal slept 4 hours last night! 8O

--janak

[Enderet]

Isnt PPCThoughts going to release a review of 2215??

[Newsboy]

Another two cents:

This actually angers me the more I think about it. My device progression:

Compaq C140 - An upgrade could be purchased to WinCE 2.0 when it came out. Kudos!

Casio EM-500 - No upgrade to PPC2002 available. Bad Casio, bad!

Audiovox Maestro - Problems galore! Late releases of all EUU updates. Warranty department returned the device unfixed when I attempted to warranty the hardware. And now, no upgrade to PPC 2003! Bad Audiovox, bad!

Dell Axim X5 - HUUUGE! So I returned it...but now it seems Dell at least is supporting its' existing customer base. Kudos!

HP 1910 - Great device! I LOVE it! And now...no update to PPC 2003! BAD HP! BAD!!!

Ugh, this just disgusts me!!!!

[rmasinag]

I'm a late adopter and opted for saving my geek dollars for the 1940.
I'm glad I took English Patience route :mrgreen:

I agree with HP's suckeness though

I'm tempted to say "It sucks to be you!" to 1910 owners but I wont' :?

Ah...the advance of technology and its quirks.

[Enderet]

Buy yourself a 2215 and forget about all problems :wink:

[ikesler]

I also am a 1910 user and knew this day would come....... but it still angers me......... Even if they gave us a limited verison of the OS, we already have one that's limited so how about another? This device is still selling right now and they won't upgrade? That makes no sense to me! :evil:

[Janak Parekh]

Isnt PPCThoughts going to release a review of 2215??
Yes, Jason's working on it. From what I'm hearing, it's going to be the biggest, most comprehensive review of the 2215 you've seen. He's been working on it for days.

--janak

[ucfgrad93]

Another two cents:

Casio EM-500 - No upgrade to PPC2002 available. Bad Casio, bad!



In fairness to Casio, they couldn't offer an upgrade for the EM-500. PPC2002 only supports ARM processors and the EM-500 had a MIPS processor.

[ucfgrad93]

With only 16MB of ROM, I don't see how anyone expected the 1910 to be upgradeable to PPC2003. At some point, the amount of the OS you have to add on in RAM, just isn't worth it.

[nightmare]

Casio EM-500 - No upgrade to PPC2002 available. Bad Casio, bad!


Did the EM-500 even have a StrongARM? I thought it had a 150 MHz MIPS? I think that's what prevented the update.

[nightmare]

Ack, too late.

[Enderet]

w00t! :oops: Cant wait for that review.

[BobWitt]

OK - I see a lot of notes about iPAQs here - but some of us chose HP (Jornada) over iPAQ and supported HP back then...

So, what about the Jornada 56X???

Bob

[Jason Dunn]

OK - I see a lot of notes about iPAQs here - but some of us chose HP (Jornada) over iPAQ and supported HP back then...So, what about the Jornada 56X???

Dead product line, a casualty of the merger - no upgrade. Sad too - I loved my Jornada...if the screen weren't so awful on it, I'm sure I'd still be using it. :-)

[Newsboy]

That's it! I can't take it!!! I'm buying a SmartPhone next instead of a PocketPC! HA!

[Scott R]

:way to go:
Jason, kudos for bringing this one to the forefront. While it's true that the 1910 has only 16MB of ROM, I would imagine that if they used a scaled-down version of the OS, it could fit. Some of the components of PPC 2003 could probably even go in RAM (if the user so desired) such as the .NET CF runtime. In the case of the 1910, other than the RAM issue, it meets all of the criteria for an upgrade:
a) American manufacturer with a record of offering upgrades to their products (actually this gets a bit tricky since Compaq had a good track record but HP did not).
b) Current model.
c) XScale processor.
d) Extremely popular device.

Part of me (yes, that conspiracy-theorist part) can't help but wonder if (assuming the claims that the new OS is a big part of the speed improvements are true) HP isn't afraid that offering an OS upgrade for the 1910 might damage sales of their other handhelds. If the new OS improved performance significantly, the 1910 could look more appealing than the new 1900 series models, since it uses a faster XScale processor.

Scott

[Scott R]

In fairness to Casio, they couldn't offer an upgrade for the EM-500. PPC2002 only supports ARM processors and the EM-500 had a MIPS processor.In fairness to reality, Casio's track record indicated that they wouldn't have offered an upgrade even if they could. This was one of the reasons why I bought my original iPaq 3630 over the Casio, even though I liked much of what the Casio had to offer better.

Scott

[mtillett]

Jason,

Can you or anyone else confirm whether or not the HP upgrades will be available via DOWNLOAD? I'd hate to wait for shipping, etc...

Also, can someone who whet the upgrade route with PPC 2000 > PPC 2002 explain how things work after the upgrade? Are there then multiple ROMs, etc? I'd be interested to see some information about how this all works. Thanks in advance.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Boy, am I glad I didn't bite on the 1910! I think this occurrence was a concern for all of us when we initially saw the memory specs. Though I agree, HP could probably release a scaled back version of the OS for this device, it is an extra task that they might find difficult justifying given that the task is for one single device (whereas the standard upgrade could be applied across all PPCs with the 64/32 memory spec).

[QYV]

Well, I'll take this opportunity to say a big "I told you so" to a few folks. I posted this back in February:

"Still, the 16MB ROM and upgradeability was the single reason I eliminated the 1910 from contention and bought an Axim instead, so it seems like it's something worth mentioning in a review[...]It will be interesting to see what people think about the 1910 in six to eight months."

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9163&start=10

At the time everyone had a good time telling me how foolish my opinion was. All I know is, I'll be quite pleased with my Windows 2003 Mobile upgraded Axim!

[darrylb]

If HP did scale back the OS, it would be them doing the work, not MS, which means they would be investing in the OS for minimal return - this would probably not pay for itself... and second, it would probably mean that Microsoft would not support the device as it had a "non standard" OS on it and contravened the Windows Mobile 2003 Pocket PC edition rules :roll:

Also it is worth remembering that HTC developed the device and went looking for someone to sell it (from my limited understanding) meaning that HP did probably not put together the memory (or other) specs for the device.

Just my 2c worth :D

[sponge]

Agreed. You shouldn't expect extensive support for a budget device (A completely new OS I agree counts as extensive.) The ROM limitations too, you can't say it "should" be easy to strip the OS down, and present that as fact, because you simply don't know. Look at low cost PCs ala eMachines, etc, little upgradibility. You get what you pay for.

[mv]

art of me (yes, that conspiracy-theorist part) can't help but wonder if (assuming the claims that the new OS is a big part of the speed improvements are true) HP isn't afraid that offering an OS upgrade for the 1910 might damage sales of their other handhelds. If the new OS improved performance significantly, the 1910 could look more appealing than the new 1900 series models, since it uses a faster XScale processor.

Scott

I agree. The 1910 can run at 300mhz , the 1940 at only 266. Upgrading the 1910, and turning it faster than the 1940, can damage sales of the 1940... and some ppl (like me :)) are waiting for the 1940, because of the 1900 form factor and BT and SDIO. So ppl won´t buy any of the devices and choose another ppc if they think that the 1910 is faster, cause they´ll feel no one of the devices is good enought... Just my thoughts anyway.

[ipaq38vette]

I thought that the 1910s rom was not flashso it would be unupgradable.

[Newsboy]

This statement tees me off, just because now I KNOW I'm getting hosed by HP. From the OFFICIAL MS PPC 2003 upgrade site (just posted here on PPCT):

"Technically, all Pocket PC 2002 devices are capable of supporting the new Windows Mobile software for Pocket PC."

[ctmagnus]

Also, can someone who whet the upgrade route with PPC 2000 > PPC 2002 explain how things work after the upgrade? Are there then multiple ROMs, etc? I'd be interested to see some information about how this all works. Thanks in advance.

Not exactly sure what you mean, but here goes:

When performing the upgrade you get the option to save our old rom as a file in case you want to restore it later (in the case of PPC2000 to PPC2002 for example). As for upgrades to PPC2003 (ie, within the same OS level), those are rom updates also but they are generally designed such that you can install them and not have to reinstall everything on your device. Compaq did release the one rom upgrade (2.14->2.20) that required reinstalling everything.

[mtillett]

I guess I was a little vague...

I was thinking the next time around after the initial upgrade to PPC 2003. Would there then be a PPC 2002 and PPC 2003 ROM updates? I'm trying to figure out what happens when I upgrade my 5455 to 2003 and then HP keeps releasing upgrades for the device. How do they account for issues like these. I'm sure this same thing was an issue for the 2000 > 2002 transition. I'm not worried about reinstalling, just interested in knowing how upgrades and new ROMs would work from here on. Thanks!

[Janak Parekh]

I agree. The 1910 can run at 300mhz , the 1940 at only 266. Upgrading the 1910, and turning it faster than the 1940, can damage sales of the 1940... and some ppl (like me :)) are waiting for the 1940, because of the 1900 form factor and BT and SDIO.
However, MHz isn't everything across processor types. Anecdotal reports suggest (see my previous CNET review post) that the 1940 is quite fast.

--janak

[cmorris]

Well I for one am happy with HP for releasing the upgrade for iPaq 38xx series. I can't say I expected it given that my 3835 is over 1.5 years old.

:mrgreen:

[TawnerX]

Does this mean h1940 and h1930 is non upgradable too?
This doesn't bode well.

Who is going to trust HP that they are going to upgrade the low end in the future?

[Gerard]

I think the same applies in a lot of product arenas. Basically, the more the company makes per unit sold, the better they are likely to treat the purchaser. If it's a budget PDA, don't expect a lot of support. If it's a flagship product, like the current HP products with full-on wireless support and fingerprint security, then of course they'll back it up for at least as long as it takes them to phase that out and move in the next shiny new top-end model. There may be blips, little exceptions, but remember the low-end Toshiba and the EUU3? Pay less = get weaker service. That's part of the whole capitalist schema, isn't it? Having more $$$ equates with deserving better treatment, in most circles these days.

I'm happy if the 3835 I use gets an upgrade, though today the screen decided to lose a few colours and currently it looks like crap. Tried watching a fullscreen movie that looked great last week, and I lasted about 10 seconds. All blue-ish and solarized. Hard reset didn't fix it, nor did restore from a backup after that. But the screen's never been great, so I guess I can just further adapt and not use it for graphics stuff at all. I'll just have to guess as to proper exposure levels with my HP camera and mmVision software...

Maybe in a year I'll be able to afford a proper PPC. That's the only upgrade I'm really deeply interested in having. Something not from Casio nor HP, but from a company where they actually know what they're doing. I've seen far too many hardware failures now to jump into the next great model without a good long look.

[Newsboy]

A critical piece of information none of us have, but I for one would like to see:

How many 1910s were sold? How many H3800, H3900, and H5400 PPCs were sold? I'm willing to bet, regardless of profit margins or potential sales lost, there were as many, if not more, 1910s sold than 3800s and 3900s. The 1910 is an enormously popular device.

Guess I'll have to tell my girlfriend tomorrow..."Honey, you're getting my HP!" (After I order a 1940 of course!)

[pschultz]

The 1910 isn't upgradable because Pocket PC 2003 Premium Edition ("Windows Mobile") is too large to fit in the ROM, but I am surprised that HP won't release a Professional Edition upgrade for the 1910s.

[pschultz]

I am really happy that HP is offering an upgrade for the 38xx series! Wohoo!!!

[Jason Dunn]

Does this mean h1940 and h1930 is non upgradable too? This doesn't bode well.

Those devices have 32 MB of ROM, and the full Professional edition of the OS, so it stands to reason that they should be updgradeable...but you're right, you never know now that HP did this with the 1910. :|

[Newsboy]

*cracks whip*

Go finish that review Jason! Heh. (No really...so I can tell my girlfriend "I only bought one because Jason Dunn said so!)

[PdaChained]

I guess I must be the only H1910 owner who just doesn't care about the upgrade. I don't see what advantage it would have to an H1910 owner anyway. I have all the good software I need for mine now. Sure I'd like to have BlueTooth or WiFi, but not at the cost of more weight.

So to me, the only ones getting stupid are the HP marketers. Some people will upgrade to the next level, no matter how silly (no offense intended :wink: ). So those people would throw money at HP and HP could just suffer and take it to the bank, but I guess HP is making more money than it needs now. How nice for us all! :D

[wbgordy]

I am so angry that the Jornada will not be supported with the 2003 upgrade. I upgraded from the 548 to the 568 so that I could get future updates! :evil:

[Gerard]

PdaChained; Actually I agree with the first part of your argument - without access to a modem (unless you have a Psion IrDA modem, which is kinda cool but kinda awkward and limiting too), the most impressive aspect (in my opinion) of the OS upgrade would be of little use. Who cares if it's IE 3.02 or IE 5.5, when offling viewing is all that's available to a non-connected device? Avantgo or somesuch will treat either one pretty much the same.

Which brings me to asking myself why so many people bought the 1910... seems such a throwback, unless after thorough research the user just decides to stay with a Palm-like device with some cool extra functionality. But with only an SD slot, and not even SD I/O, memory and other enhancements are rather limited. It hasn't any USB host capability either, so there's really nowhere to go from the 1910 unless you buy another machine. Still, if that's all you need, great choice! For ebooks (especially with µbook) and other things where a light device with a beautiful screen is just the ticket, the 1910 is a dream machine.

The deciding factor for me is two-fold; can it run a camera, and a modem. If no to either, I forget it and look elsewhere. Upgrades are not an option for my EG-800, but it's still a viable device for a lot of stuff. So knowing what you need is the important thing.

[Kevin Daly]

our enterprise customers that typically require these upgrades

Am I just being hypersensitive thinking that's a somewhat snooty and condescending attitude from HP?
Do we have any reason to believe that they've made a serious effort to find out who does actually apply upgrades? (in fact, my personal experience suggests that an informed personal user is more likely to apply upgrades than one of those exalted Enterprises <all genuflect> where you would be lucky to find a support person who was aware that there was an upgrade, or how to apply it).
The space limitations for the 1910 may very well present a real obstacle, but the argument about focussing on the Enterprise customers is simply another way of reminding the peasants that they're supposed to use the tradesman's entrance.
Or maybe I'm still under the influence of learning that I share a birthday with Che Guevara :)
0X

[Stephen Beesley]

I am so angry that the Jornada will not be supported with the 2003 upgrade. I upgraded from the 548 to the 568 so that I could get future updates! :evil:

I am pretty disappointed about this but I cannot really be angry because I never really expected them to offer an upgrade. As Jason said it is a dead product line also I have never really had much faith in HPs upgrade policy even going back to earlier models.

Still it would have been nice!

Goldtee

[Kevin Daly]

I am pretty disappointed about this but I cannot really be angry because I never really expected them to offer an upgrade. As Jason said it is a dead product line also I have never really had much faith in HPs upgrade policy even going back to earlier models.

Still it would have been nice!

Goldtee

It occurs to me that since the Jornada team was disbanded they may even have had a problem with dredging up relevant product knowledge for something as fundamental as an OS upgrade.
Or not.
I'm lusting after new hardware in any case...

[Stephen Beesley]

I'm lusting after new hardware in any case...

Got to say that I am with you on that!

As much as I love my Jornada I am pretty much ready for a new love! In fact I have my eye on the Toshiba e755 at the moment although I will probably wait untill the end of the year to see what else comes out and let the market shake itself out a bit.

Goldtee

[thomas1973]

I think Compaq did a reasonable job on offering updates when PPC2002 came out. I'm pretty disappointed they haven't announced anything for the 1910/1915 yet...

Especially considering the iPaq 1915 was released in Denmark only 6 weeks ago :evil: !!!! My six week old baby is already obsolete :soapbox: ! Well, it's not obsolete - I guess PPC 2002 is still OK. I just really wanted that PPC2003 t get to use the full potential of my X-scale PXA255 processor. Everyone wants more speed, right?!

Call me naive, but I'm still kind of hoping for the PPC 2003 upgrade for my 1915. Strip away PocketWord and PocketExel or whatever, and put them on the CD-ROM for optional RAM installation. Please :roll: :evil: :( ...

Pocket PC 2003 Professional Edition NOW :grinning devil:

Thomas.

[Newsboy]

I would have to agree with that, take away word or excel and give us WM2003PPC for the 1910. The only built-in applications I use with any frequency anyway are tasks, notes, email, and Pocket IE. Stick these in an updated ROM and I'll pay the $29.95 gladly.

I would argue that many of the 1910 users bought the devices knowing they were getting a limited version of PPC 2002, so they would not mind a similarly limited version of WM2003PPC. If they won't provide an upgrade...could this be the next big consumer device hack? :twisted:

[Cypher]

I wouldn't blame HP exactly. If Microsoft doesn't release a version of Windows Mobile 2003 for Pocket PC that fits in less than 32MB than HP can't really create one. So, by using the ROM size they did in the 1900, HP may have knowingly limited it, but the onus lies on Microsoft for the lack of a non-premium WM2K3fPPC.

[Scott R]

I wanted to address several points made by several different people (I hope I can remember them all):

1) Why would an iPaq 1900 owner want to upgrade? From what I've seen, the biggest improvement to the new OS (according to MS) is speed and stability. The 1900 uses a relatively up-to-date XScale processor. So, the thought of launching applications significantly quicker than you do today and not waiting as long while you load an ebook doesn't interest you?

2) Regarding the issue of Compaq having to do the work of stripping down the OS themselves...First, the hardware manufacturers already have to modify the OS package to customize it for each of their devices. That's why every manufacturer that has an OS upgrade has their own. Second, the new devices coming out use PPC 2003 Premium (or whatever that terribly long name is now). I would imagine that there's also a PPC 2003 Professional (built by MS) as well. If that can't fit in 16MB ROM, MS needs to allow for some more chopping to be available, like cutting out Pocket Word and Excel or the Media Player. I see no reason why these couldn't be loaded into RAM.

3) What's this nonsense about the 1900 being a low-profit device? This is a $300 handheld we're talking about, not a sub-$100 B&W Zire.

4) HP's announcement of the upgrade indicated that they were catering to their enterprise customers. While it's true that the vast majority of consumers of these high-end devices may be enterprise customers (not many other folks can justify spending that much on a handheld), I would argue that there are probably an awful lot of 1900 models in use by a lot of enterprise customers as well. The original Palm V was extremely popular among business customers because it was sleek and small.

Scott

[Newsboy]

We don't have any hard numbers, but let me toss a hypothetical situation out there:

50,000 HP 1910 users who want to upgrade

Windows CE.Net 4.2 core costs $3, Professional costs ~$10

$29.95 per upgrade

Approximate revenue generated: $1,000,000 US dollars.

Someone at HP is logically going to have to explain to me why this can't be done for A MILLION DOLLARS. Sweet Je$u$.

[PPCRules]

our enterprise customers that typically require these upgrades

Am I just being hypersensitive thinking that's a somewhat snooty and condescending attitude from HP?
That reference was probably referring to things like VPN, etc., that are not nice-to-haves, but real show stoppers for the enterprise users. These are the people that have bought boat loads of iPaqs, and if these don't remain usable, the next boat loads would be Dells.

[PPCRules]

Does this mean h1940 and h1930 is non upgradable too? This doesn't bode well.
Those devices have 32 MB of ROM, and the full Professional edition of the OS, so it stands to reason that they should be updgradeable...but you're right, you never know now that HP did this with the 1910. :|
No one buying even the new devices with 2003 preinstalled, but with only 32MB ROM, should expect to be able to upgrade to the next version. As reported, the next version will be a 'major' upgrade, and hopefully they will get to beefing up Excel and Word and other code-bloating things like that. The size of WM2004 for PocketPC will most likely be well beyond 32MB. And that's fine and should be expected. But current buyers of devices with only 32MB ROM should not expect, or even hope for, an upgrade path.

[Gerard]

I've something to ask about that next upgrade; If one gets a 32MB device upgraded to 64 or 128MB by PPCT, might it be then possible to upgrade to PPC 2004? (Given that it's over 32MB, which of course we don't know for certain, right?) I'm not clear on whether any of the memory upgrades would allow for a larger ROM. I guess they're called RAM upgrades, so maybe this is a sill question, but could someone put a final word on this?

I'm not thrilled with my 3835 screen (though Leonard helped me out last night in getting the LCD displaying proper colours again, after the thing mysteriously lost some greys and browns). But I've invested a fair bit in accessories, and it'd be nice if I could spend a bit more on a battery and memory upgrade to string it along for a while.

[Janak Parekh]

But I've invested a fair bit in accessories, and it'd be nice if I could spend a bit more on a battery and memory upgrade to string it along for a while.
Of course, this argument doesn't entirely work -- the new 5xxx iPAQs support all the accessories of the 38xx units. That's part of the reason I plan my next Pocket PC to be a 5550, because I still have extra cradles and sleeves from my 3870.

--janak

[Gerard]

Yeah, I figure if there's no new PPC that really grabs me in the next year (nothing really close so far, though I can certainly see the appeal of the 2215) I'll look for a bargain-priced high end iPAQ. A year after release those should drop by at least 30 or 40%, making it not such a painful upgrade. But I am really hoping that a slightly larger device comes along before I spend that kind of cash, something with at least a 50% bigger screen than the current crop. And two built-in CF slots, plus an SD slot, and decent USB support would all be good. I'd rather see designs expand in width and height, than the depth increase sleeves bring. My new dual-CF MemPlug is slimmer than most sleeves with such capacity, but it's still over an inch thick overall. That's quite the pocket bulge.

Oh well, this is an OS thread, so I'll drop the daydreaming. Just mark me happy as a clam for the moment that HP has now officially stated there'll be an upgrade available for the 38xx devices. I could really use better stability, fewer resets, and a honkin' good version of PIE.

[Newsboy]

I've something to ask about that next upgrade; If one gets a 32MB device upgraded to 64 or 128MB by PPCT, might it be then possible to upgrade to PPC 2004?

No. PPCTechs only upgrades the RAM in your device, not the ROM. I doubt RAM will be the limiting factor in upgrading to PPC 2004.

[stlbud]

I guess this all makes my choices for a new Pocket PC easier. I bought my iPAQ with the promise that it would be upgradeable. I realize everyone's idea of upgradable is different but, I thought it would at least get me to the next version of the OS. So, my Pocket PC 2002 will not be upgraded to Pocket PC 2003 even though I was told it could be when I bought it. I guess I'll buy a Toshiba and take their promise of upgrading the OS with a grain of salt.

[shawnc]

As reported, the next version will be a 'major' upgrade, and hopefully they will get to beefing up Excel and Word and other code-bloating things like that.

THE NEXT VERSION??????? Why aren't they addressing this NOW? Excel and Word are the biggest farces that the PPC has foisted on its owners. It is incomprehensible to me that MS has decided to ignore this major shortcoming.........Again!

[bkerrins]

I purchased a 3765 and it came with PPC 2002 on it. HP didn't upgrade me, I started with 2002. How come I can't upgrade now?

[GO-TRIBE]

HP, to save a good face you really need to provide an upgrade for your recent best selling devices (i.e. 1910). Also, if you can provide a 1910 upgrade, then there is no reason that a 36XX/37XX upgrade would not be possible. If HP really wants PPC to be synonymous with iPaq, you should offer upgrades for all devices when it is technically possible.

:idea: Hey, the 36XX/37XX devices were for buisness, and as such had a higher price tag. Those devices should be upgraded following your logic.

[glaggle]

I guess this all makes my choices for a new Pocket PC easier. I bought my iPAQ with the promise that it would be upgradeable. I realize everyone's idea of upgradable is different but, I thought it would at least get me to the next version of the OS. So, my Pocket PC 2002 will not be upgraded to Pocket PC 2003 even though I was told it could be when I bought it. I guess I'll buy a Toshiba and take their promise of upgrading the OS with a grain of salt.

You don't want to buy a Toshiba. They have not provided the PPC 2003 update for the e740 even though it was their high end device until the e755 was released. I am very suspicious of the support they will provide in the future.

[Perry Reed]

OK - I see a lot of notes about iPAQs here - but some of us chose HP (Jornada) over iPAQ and supported HP back then...So, what about the Jornada 56X???

Dead product line, a casualty of the merger - no upgrade. Sad too - I loved my Jornada...if the screen weren't so awful on it, I'm sure I'd still be using it. :-)

Yeah, but I remember the day when HP would support "dead" product lines and not leave their customers hanging. And I used to work at HP, so I would know...

As a Jornada user twice over (548 and 568) I'm pretty irked that they've left us high and dry.

[Newsboy]

I emailed HP Tech Support, and got the typical cryptic response:

"Thank you for your email. The upgrade is not yet available. PPC2003 is only available as a pre-installed operating system on new model handhelds.

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Thank you,

Jamie
HP Services"

[Newsboy]

And now, the next reply:

"I can’t say if it will or not. The 1910 only has 16 MB of flash memory. If it is made available for this handheld, it will be a very, very stripped down version of the OS.

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Thank you,

Jamie
HP Services"

Looks like we had all better start making noise!

[Jason Dunn]

I purchased a 3765 and it came with PPC 2002 on it. HP didn't upgrade me, I started with 2002. How come I can't upgrade now?

A very good question - I don't know what HP is thinking here... :|

[Newsboy]

Someone at HP is listening. Whether that will make a difference remains to be seen. The latest:

"Trust me, we would be excluding a huge market if we didn’t offer the upgrade for the 1900s so I really don't see us not making it available. I will pass your message along to my upper level support so they can pass it on to the software development team.

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Thank you,

Jamie
HP Services"

[bbarker]

Yeah, but I remember the day when HP would support "dead" product lines and not leave their customers hanging. And I used to work at HP, so I would know...

As a Jornada user twice over (548 and 568) I'm pretty irked that they've left us high and dry.
There's no technical reason they couldn't upgrade the Jornada 560 series. It's a marketing decision and it's irritating. Of course, since HP is not loyal to its customers who chose HP over Compaq back then, I have no product loyalty to HP.

I have never considered any iPaq before the 1910 because of the form factor and its cartoon-like appearance. The 1910 eliminated the bulky sleeve expansion scheme but was too limited for my needs. I'd look at the 2200 because of its size and expansion abilities, but it doesn't have a side scrollling control. They're getting closer but still are missing some basics from the Jornada line, including that scrolling control and the screen cover. As I've mentioned before, it's as though the iPaq team has a not-invented-here attitude toward anything the late Jornada team came up with. They've grudgingly added removable batteries and CF support, but those weren't Jornada exclusives. The screen cover is, and they won't give us one.

At this point I'd go with any brand the offered the appropriate configuration. HP is in the running now that they've introduced the 2200 series, but they're at a disadvantage because of the iPaq team's apparent grudge against the Jornada team and their refusal to implement any Jornada innovations.

[Newsboy]

The more I learn, the more angry I get! Facts:

Toshiba's e355 PocketPC comes with WM2003PPC pre-installed, or as a flash ROM upgrade.

Toshiba's e355 PocketPC has 16 MB Flash ROM. :evil:

So please, PLEASE HP, don't tell us that you can't give us WM2003PPC in 16 MB! Toshiba has already done so!

[Stephen Beesley]

I have never considered any iPaq before the 1910 because of the form factor and its cartoon-like appearance. The 1910 eliminated the bulky sleeve expansion scheme but was too limited for my needs. I'd look at the 2200 because of its size and expansion abilities, but it doesn't have a side scrollling control. They're getting closer but still are missing some basics from the Jornada line, including that scrolling control and the screen cover. As I've mentioned before, it's as though the iPaq team has a not-invented-here attitude toward anything the late Jornada team came up with. They've grudgingly added removable batteries and CF support, but those weren't Jornada exclusives. The screen cover is, and they won't give us one.

At this point I'd go with any brand the offered the appropriate configuration.

With you there!

I have had a close look at all of the 2200 reviews (including Jason's excellent review :D ) and like a lot of what I see. I am also very tempted by the Toshiba 750 (despite some of the negitive comments in some of the other forums) but both are still a compromise.

Give me a screen cover :!:

Goldtee

[thomas1973]

Someone at HP is listening. Whether that will make a difference remains to be seen. The latest:

"Trust me, we would be excluding a huge market if we didn’t offer the upgrade for the 1900s so I really don't see us not making it available. I will pass your message along to my upper level support so they can pass it on to the software development team.

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Thank you,

Jamie
HP Services"
Jamie seems like a bright fellow.

Thomas.

[Newsboy]

I await tomorrow (June 26th) with baited breath. This is the day that HP is telling us to check back into their upgrade site.

[bbarker]

With you there!

I have had a close look at all of the 2200 reviews (including Jason's excellent review :D ) and like a lot of what I see. I am also very tempted by the Toshiba 750 (despite some of the negitive comments in some of the other forums) but both are still a compromise.

Give me a screen cover :!:
I like the Toshiba 750's specs (except no screen cover). I haven't seen one, but previous Toshiba models felt too wide in my hand. I don't know if they're really wider than other Pocket PCs or if it's something else about the feel that was actually bothering me.

[GO-TRIBE]

Hey we need a Petition like those Toshiba owners.

The 1910 and 3700 should really get WM 2003! The 3700 shipped with 2002 and is a business device, and we all know that the 16 MB ROM excuse is just that; a very lame excuse. :!:

[bbarker]

Hey we need a Petition like those Toshiba owners.

The 1910 and 3700 should really get WM 2003! The 3700 shipped with 2002 and is a business device, and we all know that the 16 MB ROM excuse is just that; a very lame excuse. :!:
Sounds like we need an HP petition covering the 3700, the 1910 and the Jornada 560 series.

[Newsboy]

I think some of this is duplicated in Jason's original post, but here is the official HP response:

"Why isn't the H1910 upgradeable to Microsoft's Pocket PC 2003?
We are focusing our upgrades on the h5450, h3900 and h3800 families since these products target our enterprise customers that typically require these upgrades. (Additional information: The H1910 product line only has a 16MB ROM which does not fit Microsoft Pocket PC 2003 Premium version."

This text can be found in the "Microsoft Pocket PC 2003 upgrade for the iPAQ Pocket PC faq". This faq is located here:

http://www.hp.com/sbso/special/ppc_upgrade_faq.html

As has been pointed out, the text in bold is simply untrue. Toshiba's e355 has a 16MB ROM and comes pre-installed with Microsoft Pocket PC 2003 Premium, or can be flash upgraded. (The Toshiba e355 does not include Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, or Windows Media Player 9 for Pocket PC on the ROM chip; these must be installed into RAM from the included CD-ROM disk.)

Additionally, for you HP Jornada owners:

"Why did HP decide not to offer an upgrade for the Jornada product line?
The Jornada 928 is the only Jornada product still being offered by HP, as other models have already completed their normal product lifecycle. This product is based on Microsoft's Pocket PC Phone Edition software. However, since this product will be completing its product lifecycle this year, HP has chosen not to offer additional upgrades or refreshes."

[thomas1973]

Hey we need a Petition like those Toshiba owners.

The 1910 and 3700 should really get WM 2003! The 3700 shipped with 2002 and is a business device, and we all know that the 16 MB ROM excuse is just that; a very lame excuse. :!:
The 1910 PPC2003 ugrade petition is already up. Go see this thread:

iPAQ 1910 Petition Site (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14110&highlight=)


Thomas.

[FredMurphy]

Give me a screen cover :!:
I'm sure I saw somewhere that the 2200 had holes for an optional screen cover. I'm sure I've seen a photo of one too. I'll try to track this down, but all the excitement over PPC2003 (sorry :oops: WM2003fPPC) may have got me confused.

Fred

[mv]

I think some of this is duplicated in Jason's original post, but here is the official HP response:

"Why isn't the H1910 upgradeable to Microsoft's Pocket PC 2003?
We are focusing our upgrades on the h5450, h3900 and h3800 families since these products target our enterprise customers that typically require these upgrades. (Additional information: The H1910 product line only has a 16MB ROM which does not fit Microsoft Pocket PC 2003 Premium version."

This text can be found in the "Microsoft Pocket PC 2003 upgrade for the iPAQ Pocket PC faq". This faq is located here:

http://www.hp.com/sbso/special/ppc_upgrade_faq.html

As has been pointed out, the text in bold is simply untrue. Toshiba's e355 has a 16MB ROM and comes pre-installed with Microsoft Pocket PC 2003 Premium, or can be flash upgraded."


HP is lying all the way. HP SUCKS!!! Lying to customers is not good at all. God i´m angry! :devilboy: :devilboy: :devilboy:

[hollis_f]

From the MS website -

I already have a Pocket PC 2002, is it upgradeable?
Technically, all Pocket PC 2002 devices are capable of supporting the new Windows Mobile software for Pocket PC. Pocket PC 2000 devices are not however upgradeable to this latest software release. While your Pocket PC 2002 is technically upgradeable, each individual original equipment manufacturer (OEM) (i.e. the company that manufactured your Pocket PC) ultimately decides whether or not to offer a software upgrade. OEMs may choose not to offer an upgrade for all Pocket PC models in all languages in all countries.

So MS say that all PPC2k2 devices can be upgraded to WMPPC. And that if an upgrade isn't available is't the decision of the OEM.

[Jerry Raia]

It appears though that I am getting my free upgrade from MS. Strange.

[Newsboy]

More speculation from a 1910 owner:

If HP won't have the 3800 series upgrade ready until OCTOBER (!!!), even if 1910 owners get an upgrade, how long would it be before we get it? 2004??? :grumble:

[Newsboy]

HP's faq page has changed:

"Why isn't the H1910 upgradeable to Microsoft's Pocket PC 2003?
We are focusing our upgrades on the h5450, h3900 and h3800 families since these products target our enterprise customers that typically require these upgrades. "

"What are the reasons for not providing an upgrade for the H1910 product?
The iPAQ Pocket PC H1910 is targeted for the individual purchaser who is focused more on basic functionality and looking for good value in a product. HP does not offer upgrades for every platform and in every language. Our upgrades are typically offered on our mainstream & performance products such as our h5400 product line."

Bastards. :grumble:

[bbarker]

HP's faq page has changed:

"Our upgrades are typically offered on our mainstream & performance products such as our h5400 product line."

Bastards. :grumble:
Yeah, the 1910 certainly couldn't be considered a mainstream product. :frusty: