I dream...of PVRs!

[Jason Dunn]

Please indulge me in this selfish off-topic post, but I need to tap into the awesome collective intelligence that reads this site. I have a confession to make: I have PVR envy. I desperately want to escape the shackles of VCR bondage and disillusionment that I've suffered under for decades, and frolic through the blissful fields of time-shifted TV that I see my southern brethren enjoying.<br /><br />The problem is that due to the quasi-communist laws of the CRTC (our Canadian government broadcasting board of thugs), most of the satellite systems that TiVo and others are based off of (DirecTV) aren't allowed in Canada. Thus they're grey market/black market items, and thus a dubious solution. And none of the US-based PVR companies care to offer the service in Canada anyway.<br /><br /><i>My fellow Canadians, how have you achieved PVR nirvana? Show me the way!</i> Bell ExpressVue <a href="http://www.bell.ca/shop/application/commercewf?origin=*.jsp&event=link(productDetail)&wlcs_catalog_item_sku=59822">has some PVR solutions</a>, but they don't look very sophisticated (they have no learning functions like TiVo), and I'm not sure I want to switch to Bell ExpressVue unless I have no choice. Has anyone tried these solutions from Bell? Are they any good?<br /><br />I'm a Shaw digital cable subscriber, but Shaw has thus far remained in the dark ages when it comes to PVR. There was a combination PVR/cable model/firewall dubbed <a href="http://www.digeo.com/prodserv/mediacenter.jsp">"Moxi"</a> being bandied about last year that I was sure Shaw would adopt, but nothing so far. Anyone here work for Shaw and know any different? Shaw is a fairly cutting-edge company, so I'm surprised to see them not offering a PVR solution. I'd drop some serious coin to get a solution that works!<br /><br />I've scoured a few PVR forums, and can't seem to find a solution - should I get a TiVo? A ReplayTV? Are there any solutions for tapping into the programming from where I am in Canada? For the love of all things holy, help me! I'm suffering! :lol:

[entropy1980]

I have a TiVO , it is the greatest thing ever! Honestly it has completely changed the way I watch TV. I mainly bought it, because of the ability to hack it, throw in an enormous harddrive and with the series 2 intergrate it with pictures and video i have on my desktop machine. Oh and almost forgot it can get tied in by a USB 802.11 dongle, meaning the cables coming out it are for my TV and power. Very cool stuff! I must add that not being in Canada I don't know what to tell you but the features above are all things you can do even outside of the US( I believe, the Media pack might make it interesting because you have to purchase it from TiVO)

[Jason Dunn]

Hoestly it has completely changed the way I watch TV.

Augh! Taunt me not heathen!! :bawl:

I keep hearing that..."It changed the way I watch TV", and I want it damn it, I WANT IT! :lol:

[rfischer]

FYI: SnapStream just released Personal Video Station 3 and it's only $49 for a limited time:

http://www.snapstream.com/Products/Products_PVS3.asp

[Jason Dunn]

FYI: SnapStream just released Personal Video Station 3 and it's only $49 for a limited time

Yeah, I've seen several PC-based solutions, but they don't really interest me, because how would I get it from my computer up to my TV? Burn a VCD or DVD every time I want to watch a show? Nah.

[entropy1980]

Yeah, I've seen several PC-based solutions, but they don't really interest me, because how would I get it from my computer up to my TV? Burn a VCD or DVD every time I want to watch a show? Nah.
Umm use a a graphics card with a TV-Out like ATI's All-In-Wonder, heck you can use that as your PVR (I believe it includes the necessarry software). The All-In-Wonder 9000 even comes with an RF remote!

[Mike Temporale]

ah, my northern brother, I feel your pain. I too have longed for a PVR. I have seen Tivo in action, and it is truely amazing.

The only hope I see right now, is from products like the new Panasonic PVR/DVD-R & Player. I know that there are a couple companies working on making these PVR/DVD combo's and they are not attached to any one cable system. They work like those VCR's that would record when you enter the programs "Code" found in the TV guide. I forget the name for this system.

I have even looked at using my computer as a PVR... It's just not the same. :cry:

[Mike Temporale]

Here's the link to the Panasonic DVD/PVR I mentioned:

Panasonic DVD/PVR (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=63096&modelNo=DMR-HS2&surfModel=DMR-HS2&surfCategory=DVD%20Video%20Recorders)

[Mobile Bob]

I know you're a busy guy, without much spare time; but if you get desperate enough for a PVR, maybe you could build one yourself.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,59088,00.html


Or try Toshiba's new Media Center notebook computer. A mobile PVR! I'm sure it has TV-out cabability.

http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-1027-404-21240789.html?tag=pdtl-list

[brianchris]

Funny, I'm close to getting one of these myself. I too do not suffer from the "Canadian Condition," but may be able to add a little help?

First, PVR's are the way and the light.......no more forgetting to set he VCR, and missing an episode of something that won't be replayed by the network in at least six months (if ever).

SnapStream 3 is a definite option, especially, as some one else already indicated, when used with a video card with S-Video out or other (PCI/external) scan converter. That way, you can watch directly from your hard drive on your TV, an/or you can arcive your PVR recording to VHS (if you didn't want to archive to DVD, SVCD).
Snap Stream PROS:
-May work in Canada
-No monthly (or lifetime) subscription fees
-Saves in WMA and can be exported to watch on your PocketPC!!
-Cheap.....current special (intil 6/15/03) is $49 for software
-Can send to anyone who can play MPEG / WMA files
SnapStream CONS:
-Your CPU must be fairly clode to your primary TV
-One more app with one more service taking up system resources on your CPU (now, if you had a dedicated box......)
-Brand new software......unproven, but previous versions were good.

Replay TV PROS:
-Simple, turn-key solution
-Boradband Inet connection for LAN/streaming or sending to other Replay TV users.
ReplayTV CONS:
-More expensive
-Less sharring options.

Personally, I'm not even considering TiVo, as, last time I checked, there was no broadband support. Anyway, hope this helps, and more importantly, I sure hope you can get a PVR solution working for you up north.

-Brian

[kalex]

Jason,

you are touching on a very sensitive thing. As you know there is no service provided by tivo to canada, with that said it is possible to hack it to be able to work in canada. I'm not going to go in details as to how to do it, if you want more info, send me a pm and i'll point you in the right direction. Tivo so far is the best pvr on the market and i like it more than replay. btw replay is not hackable so u can't use it in canada.

[jpaq]

FYI: SnapStream just released Personal Video Station 3 and it's only $49 for a limited time

Yeah, I've seen several PC-based solutions, but they don't really interest me, because how would I get it from my computer up to my TV? Burn a VCD or DVD every time I want to watch a show? Nah.

Does Windows XP Media Center Edition have similar features? Most, if not all of these (from OEM's) have TV outs.

[Jonathan1]

:jawdrop: You poor bastard! 8O ;) I no longer can imagine a world without Direct TV. *homer simpson voice* Mmmmmm TV...

[Mike Temporale]

I no longer can imagine a world without Direct TV. *homer simpson voice* Mmmmmm TV...

Last I heard, Direct TV was working on settting up in Canada. That would remove the "grey market" issue. Of course, they would have to adhere to CRTC guidlines, which means it would suck just as much as what we have now. :(

[Timothy Huber]

Whenever I'm on vacation or on a business trip. I even find myself monentarily thinking about rewinding the radio (!) in the car when I'm not paying attention, or join a radio program after it's started. To say that it has changed the way we watch TV is a complete understatement. We rarely watch live TV, and, even if we do we typically wait 10-15 minutes for the program to start and then fast-forward through commercials, etc.

We have a DirecTV Tivo, which I'm convinced, after seeing some friends with a plain-old Tivo, is the only way to go (of course that's not a lot of help north of the border).

A couple of specific reasons: Non satellite PVRs have to compress the video to store it; satellite PVRs store the feed directly. Any video off the Tivo is exactly the same quality as the original broadcast. Hopefully some digital cable vendors will start to provide the same capabilities, but for now...

Also, the dual tuner is amazing. We can watch a recorded program while two other programs are recorded at the same time. (The only time we've had a problem is when Smallville, Life With Bonnie, and a new Changing Rooms were all on at 9:00 Tuesday night. Fortunately, BBC America repeats Changing Rooms ad infinitum, so we were able to work around that...)

All that being said, if I couldn't have satellite, I'd definitely buy a Tivo of some type. The Series 2 models with the home networking components look good and can pull audio/photos off your PC's.

Timothy

[aroma]

Personally, I use the ATI All-In-Wonder 8500DV. This thing has just about every input and output you can imagine. The software has full PVR functionality, including time-shiffted viewing. I have this thing run back into my TV, so I can watch from my PC or my TV, either one. I'm saving up to upgrade to the AIW 9000 series because of it's dual-tunner. (*DROOL*)

[Jason Dunn]

Umm use a a graphics card with a TV-Out like ATI's All-In-Wonder, heck you can use that as your PVR (I believe it includes the necessarry software). The All-In-Wonder 9000 even comes with an RF remote!

Nah, not a practical solution. I had a PC hooked up to a 51" Hitachi TV for two years with an ATI AIW card, and let me count the ways it sucked:

1) The computer added too much noise
2) The resolution sucked - blurry, small, ugly. Web browsing, or really doing anything on it, wasn't great
3) I had a wireless keyboard, and it was workable, but the user-interface of Windows XP was not designed for sitting ten feet away

Been there, done that, not willing to go back.

One POSSIBLE solution to all this is a Windows XP Media Center PC, but I'd need to drop about $1700 US, which is about $2500 CAN. I don't need a whole computer, and using it JUST for the Media Center abilities seems like a waste...

[bblock]

Hey, Jason. Welcome to my pain. Hopefully I can shed a little light, however, being a Canuck (a Vancouver Canuck, no less!) Damn that team - they could have gone all the way...

Last summer I tried the Bell ExpressVu PVR 5100. Having waited over a year at that point for a Canadian PVR, I have one thing to say - AWESOME! IT ROCKED! (okay, that's two things)

There were a couple of issues I had with it, but I would choose to deal with those issues ANY DAY OF THE WEEK over not having the unit. Those issues were:

1. Their "~30 hrs of programming" was really only about 21 hrs, in my usage. YMMV, especially if you record LOTS of news programs...Compression and all - you understand. Note that this has been fixed with the new 5800 series which has a larger hard drive (80GB, I believe).

2. Only a single tuner, so you can't watch a show while recording another one unless you have an additional satellite receiver (either another 5800 or a 3100). Dish Networks in the US has a unit (the 721) that has two tuners, but Bell says it will be a while (at least a year?) before this enters the Canadian market.

Everything else was minor, nit-picky stuff. No, it doesn't have learning like Tivo, but unless you live in front of the TV, I've found that I need to be selective about what I record or there's never enough time to watch it all.

Do I have one now? No. Why? BECAUSE I WORK IN IT AND THE MARKET SUCKS!... .. ....sorry - rant over. Believe you me, the second I (meaning my wife) can justify spending the money on a 5800, it will be in my living room.

I say this as the owner of a TV tuner card and the new Snapstream 3.0 PVR software. I'm hoping to get it to work in a quality I can live with, but the issues you mentioned are true for me too - I don't always want to be stuck in front of my computer (even if it has a 24" 16x10 monitor!) watching shows, and that doesn't help the rest of my family in any case.

Even if I get Snapstream working flawlessly for me, I'll still want a 'real' PVR hooked up to my TV, and right now, that's the 5800. If they come out with a dual-tuner unit (or if you can spring for an extra 3100) - go for it. If you're not willing to wait, get the 5800. I only had it for a month (I hadn't found a job by that time, and had to return it), but I was happy with Bell once I got past all the details the Future Shop employee forgot to tell me about the programming credits, hidden costs, and such. I would do it again, though - in a heartbeat.

Hope this helps.

Bryan

[that_kid]

I've been using snapstream since version 1. Jason want's something that has a guide for Canada and right now snapstream is just US only :cry: so that knocks that off the list of options. My cousin has directtv with the pvr built in and she really likes it. I guess the upside to this is that there are many choice, the downside is that there are many choices. Go Figure

[lurch]

Am I the last guy on earth who uses just a basic antenna on my roof??? Gimme the main networks and I'm happy -- although lately even they aren't exactly appealing to me.

I do understand about having cable in Canada though.. when I lived there, all we had was an antenna and a) we couldn't get very many channels (we lived *fairly* far away from any major networks), and b) there was always a craving for U.S. TV!! :) Mostly for the simpsons though (so it was probably better we didn't get cable).

If it were me, I'd go with the PC-based hardware/software solution and an IR remote or something. You don't have to buy a top of the line computer for a standalone server... $2500 (CDN)?? No way!! Just go to http://www.pricewatch.com/, pick up a cheapie machine, buy this hard drive from CompUSA (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?tabtype=pi&product%5Fcode=301996&pfp=external) (if they'll ship to Can.) and some software and a capture/playback card, you're good to go!! Sure it might cost a little extra for a nicer card (ala the problems you mentioned in your post Jason). But the end result is still a lower cost and decent solution..

[bluevolume]

I share your desire for PVR functionality, especially since all the stuff I like to watch is on late at night -- either I go to work groggy, or I miss all the TV gems!

My plan for years has been to get my computer in the mix, use it to record these shows and watch them on my livingroom TV. It just seemed to make sense, since is looks to be cheaper and gives you a lot of options. Well, this week I finally put that dream to rest. After trying for probably 4 years to get something functional and reliable on my PC, I realized that it just isn't going to happen. I've tried most everything, from outboard USB TV tuners, to a AverTV PCI board, and now to my ATI 8500DV, and each with a bunch of different software packages, and nothing works reliably enough to make it worthwhile. They will crash while recording, create corrupted files, sometimes just not record at all. The latest headache with the ATI board is that it can't start recording if you are not logged in, and since I lock my machine with the screen saver it never works.

Even if you do get the thing to record, then you've got the problem of playback. It works well on the computer monitor, but that's not the goal. You can run svideo cables through your house, setup RF remote controls, maybe use a wireless video sender, and then spend weeks trying to get the resolution set right to get it even close to a normal TV picture. Oh yeah, and forget about using your computer for anything else while you are recording/playing.

SO -- I ordered my refurb'ed Replay 5040 this week. It is ~$350 shipped, and includes the lifetime service. I've seen these things in action and they are sweet. The best feature is the web support -- you can program your replay from a website. If you remember at work that you wanted to record a show, you can go to the myreplay website and set it up.

Can't wait for UPS to bring my new toy.

Later,
Blue

[jpaq]

Umm use a a graphics card with a TV-Out like ATI's All-In-Wonder, heck you can use that as your PVR (I believe it includes the necessarry software). The All-In-Wonder 9000 even comes with an RF remote!

Nah, not a practical solution. I had a PC hooked up to a 51" Hitachi TV for two years with an ATI AIW card, and let me count the ways it sucked:

1) The computer added too much noise
2) The resolution sucked - blurry, small, ugly. Web browsing, or really doing anything on it, wasn't great
3) I had a wireless keyboard, and it was workable, but the user-interface of Windows XP was not designed for sitting ten feet away

Been there, done that, not willing to go back.

One POSSIBLE solution to all this is a Windows XP Media Center PC, but I'd need to drop about $1700 US, which is about $2500 CAN. I don't need a whole computer, and using it JUST for the Media Center abilities seems like a waste...

Beauty part (eh) is, you don't have to do that. Network your Media Center PC and use it for whatever computer, internet, Music (MP3 playing over your TV or stereo), Site Admin needs from your living room.
So much you can do......

[jpaq]

I share your desire for PVR functionality, especially since all the stuff I like to watch is on late at night -- either I go to work groggy, or I miss all the TV gems!

My plan for years has been to get my computer in the mix, use it to record these shows and watch them on my livingroom TV. It just seemed to make sense, since is looks to be cheaper and gives you a lot of options. Well, this week I finally put that dream to rest. After trying for probably 4 years to get something functional and reliable on my PC, I realized that it just isn't going to happen. I've tried most everything, from outboard USB TV tuners, to a AverTV PCI board, and now to my ATI 8500DV, and each with a bunch of different software packages, and nothing works reliably enough to make it worthwhile. They will crash while recording, create corrupted files, sometimes just not record at all. The latest headache with the ATI board is that it can't start recording if you are not logged in, and since I lock my machine with the screen saver it never works.

Even if you do get the thing to record, then you've got the problem of playback. It works well on the computer monitor, but that's not the goal. You can run svideo cables through your house, setup RF remote controls, maybe use a wireless video sender, and then spend weeks trying to get the resolution set right to get it even close to a normal TV picture. Oh yeah, and forget about using your computer for anything else while you are recording/playing.

SO -- I ordered my refurb'ed Replay 5040 this week. It is ~$350 shipped, and includes the lifetime service. I've seen these things in action and they are sweet. The best feature is the web support -- you can program your replay from a website. If you remember at work that you wanted to record a show, you can go to the myreplay website and set it up.

Can't wait for UPS to bring my new toy.

Later,
Blue
bluevolume,

Where did you find the refurb?

[jmarkevich]

You could check out MythTV...

http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures

It's the Linux version of SnapStream. It looks really great. Again, you have to basically dedicate a PC to the TV. I don't see this being unreasonable anymore though, I got my Compaq Athlon XP2200+ at Staples for $900 CDN. This is way more than enough horsepower to do on-the-fly MPEG (or DivX) encoding. I use an ATI Radeon VIVO to capture off VCR. The trick is to eliminate that middle step. It's a high cost but there's no recurring fees and your flexibility is beyond comparison.

My next step is to follow my own advice and check out MythTV :D

[Hank Scorpio]

I have a Tivo working in Canada, totally legal. I just bought a Tivo offa e-Bay and hooked it up , it's not direct tv combo, just a plain Tivo (an old series one ) I upgraded the hard drive to a 120 gigs and it's incredible. Although you can only receive American channels and mine seems to have a busted modem, so I can't leave it plugged in or I don't get long distance calls. Anyways, there are Canadian numbers that the Tivo can dial into and get the updates and everything, and I only have an antenna (stupid apt building ripped out the cable ) but I still get about 23 channels and half of them show up in the Tivo, good ones like fox and stuff so I can grab all the shows I want, just can't get local programming like City TV. I did go into the grey market for a bit and got a Direct tv box and the Tivo was grabbing some crazy stuff, but I'm back to just regular again, and I like it better. The Tivo is the future, and I find it hard to watch TV at other peoples houses, I wanna rewind and skip commercials. One more thing there is a RCA PVR with a built in DVD player in the scenium series. it's not as good as the Tivo but it gets it's TV guide through the Guide+ thing. My Tv has it, and it's free! I get a TV guide that is only 2 days, but it's great, I love it for the channels I don't get the Tivo guide for.

[PocketPC Addict]

Jason,

VideoTron Cable up in Quebec has the Scientific Atlanta box, see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/explorer_8000/ for more info. So it may drift your way soon.

No the SA 8000 is not as great as Tivo by any stretch. But it gets the job done for the most part and it has been slowly catching up. It offers trick-play, built in guide, record 2 channels at once, etc.

I'd strongly consider doing what an earlier poster recommended and "refurbish" a Tivo. Because no matter what your cable company puts in place it won't be as good as Tivo anyway.

Best wishes,

[Bandito]

1) The computer added too much noise

1) There are cases that reduce the noise considerably. Another alternative is to put your PC in another room and just run A/V cables to your TV. Combined with NetRemote (for the Pocket PC) or ATI's RF Remote, line of sight is not a factor.

2) The resolution sucked - blurry, small, ugly. Web browsing, or really doing anything on it, wasn't great

2) I'm using the ATI 8500DV with DVI video output, and the resolution is the cleanest, crispest thing I've ever seen. Running in widescreen mode too (1366x768). S-Video tends to fuzz the picture up (and won't let you do widescreen), but the ATI cards do a pretty good job of keeping it clean.

3) I had a wireless keyboard, and it was workable, but the user-interface of Windows XP was not designed for sitting ten feet away

3) Check out www.myhtpc.net . Totally configurable, XML-based Media PC front-end. And it's free.

I admit, this is a lot of work, but it is also soooo much more powerful than a Tivo-type device. It can play DivX, XviD, and any other codec that comes along. It can play any audio file format, play games, you name it. PM me if you want some assistance in this area, as I've spent countless hours tweaking things to get them just right (and there's still much to be done).

[Pony99CA]

btw replay is not hackable so u can't use it in canada.
The Replay certainly is hackable. There are plenty of Replay hacking sites out there (for example, the ReplayTV Hacking Project (http://rtvpatch.sourceforge.net/) and Planet Replay (http://www.planetreplay.com/)).

I don't know if it's hackable to use in Canada, though.

Steve

[kalex]

Pony99ca,

sorry i wan't clear. replay is hackable (u can add a drive, extract movies from it with dvarchive). however u can't hack the subscription. and replay is not avaiable in canada.


alex

[Pony99CA]

Where did you find the refurb?
Ummm, the Replay Web site (http://www.replay.com). :-) The "renewed" 5040 is listed right on the home page.

I ordered one last week; my old Panasonic Showstopper is having problems watching a show delayed.

Steve

[dave1234]

For christmas we got a Sony Viao with gigapocket. Plug the co-axial cable in the back, and let the the recorder work like a TIVO. It wasn't long before my wife needed a second hard drive. Sony sells a product called the room link that lets you connect the computer to your TV via ethernet. Or if your computer is close to the TV, just use the video out. The viao comes with a remote control that makes it all work from your sofa.

Downside: expensive, and dont bother trying to burn dvds to watch your shows. That's a time consuming process. You'll need the roomlink or tv out right to the tv.

[rocuf]

Check out
http://www.avsforum.com
They have great boards on TIVO and using a Computer solution

[cmchavez]

ah, my northern brother, I feel your pain. I too have longed for a PVR. I have seen Tivo in action, and it is truely amazing.

The only hope I see right now, is from products like the new Panasonic PVR/DVD-R & Player. I know that there are a couple companies working on making these PVR/DVD combo's and they are not attached to any one cable system. They work like those VCR's that would record when you enter the programs "Code" found in the TV guide. I forget the name for this system.

I have even looked at using my computer as a PVR... It's just not the same. :cry:

I have one of these and it works pretty well for recording programs. It can channel switch internally for you, but does not switch channels at the cable box if you need access to scrambled channels.

It also has the benefit of being able to burn shows to DVD if you so desire, without having to stream to an outside source. I haven't seen any way of adding an additional hard drive though.

[Pony99CA]

Check out
http://www.avsforum.com
They have great boards on TIVO and using a Computer solution
And they have a Replay section (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=27), too. :-)

Steve

[Mark from Canada]

Whenever I'm on vacation or on a business trip. I even find myself monentarily thinking about rewinding the radio (!) in the car when I'm not paying attention, or join a radio program after it's started. To say that it has changed the way we watch TV is a complete understatement. We rarely watch live TV.

There were a couple of issues I had with it, but I would choose to deal with those issues ANY DAY OF THE WEEK over not having the unit. Those issues were:

1. Their "~30 hrs of programming" was really only about 21 hrs, in my usage. YMMV, especially if you record LOTS of news programs...Compression and all - you understand. Note that this has been fixed with the new 5800 series which has a larger hard drive (80GB, I believe).

2. Only a single tuner, so you can't watch a show while recording another one unless you have an additional satellite receiver (either another 5800 or a 3100). Dish Networks in the US has a unit (the 721) that has two tuners, but Bell says it will be a while (at least a year?) before this enters the Canadian market.


I fully agree.
We also have a Bell ExpressVu PVR 5100. We almost didn't buy it because of the price difference to the non-PVR receiver from Bell, but that would have been a big mistake (my wife let me buy it and now she LOVES it). More space would be great - but I'm not gonna upgrade now to the 5800.
The quality is the same as watching it directly - even with Dolby Digital 5.1 sound on movies that are sent with it (some Vu, some on MovieCentral now).

Mark

[Kathy_Harris]

PVR must be a "man" thing. My Dishnetwork receiver went belly up and they "accidentally" sent me a PVR. My son's dad was beside himself that I got one free. I really don't use it now that it is reruns :( I haven't gotten into the habit of skipping commercials or rewinding so I'm not benefitting from that.

I must say, CNN looks about the same :wink:

[jgrnt1]

If you have an HD TV, I believe the ATI AIW's allow for both DVI and component video out, which would solve the resolution/fuzzy picture problems.

I have both a media center PC and a PVR. The PVR came first (with Dish Network), or I would use just the PC. Currently it is used mostly for music. I built a Shuttle box, with an Athlon XP 1700+, 256 MB RAM, 80 GB HD, CD-RW, WinXP home and a Gyration UltraMouse/keyboard combo for about $600. It sits on my entertainment center, above the HD TV. Currently I have about 300 albums on it -- digital audio out to my receiver. Eventually, I will probably add an AIW and a DVD burner. I did just add a 6-in-1 card reader, so I can pop in the CF card from my digital camera and view the photos on my TV.

The PVR/satellite receiver from Dish network was a $99 upgrade from the standard receiver and I do not believe there is an additional monthly charge. Sorry you can't get it in Canada.

[bluevolume]

If you have an HD TV, I believe the ATI AIW's allow for both DVI and component video out, which would solve the resolution/fuzzy picture problems.


Good luck with that. The component output feature was the main reason I bought my 8500DV, of course I wasn't aware it was almost $50 for the component video adapter. I spent a long time trying to get that working, and I could get a picture, but only at very low resolutions (640). Ended up being a big waste of money.

Blue

[klinux]

Have a first gen Tivo and love it. While I think DIY solutions can never be as elegant as TiVO, they can certainly bridge gaps where TiVo is missing e.g playing DivX and other contents and HiDef signals!

[Keystone]

The problem is that due to the quasi-communist laws of the CRTC (our Canadian government broadcasting board of thugs), most of the satellite systems that TiVo and others are based off of (DirecTV) aren't allowed in Canada.

Jason, it makes absolute market sense and has NOTHING to do with communism -- it's the segmented free market. In that regard, little to no difference within the States as it is here.

Each year television programming is sold on a per market basis -- same in the US as in Canada. Those who buy the rights to the product then sell advertising space to be displayed along with their purchased product for their marketplace. If external companies broadcast the same show with ads sold for their stated market then you have an undermining of the business set-up leaving those local stations who purchased the local shows at an unfair disadvantage -- in short, they're getting ripped off. There are similar regulatory controls to protect this very capitalistic system in both the USA and Canada.

The problem is not with the CRTC but of the external providers that are not adequately controlling (as by law in the USA and Canada) who they sell their services to. If these companies continue to profit off of such illegal business practices without the inclination to sufficiently (LEGALLY) market their product and broadcast in another market -- then the blame lies with them and those who knowingly commit fraud (registering for a service under a false address).

If your desired services do not enter your market, then tough luck. Find legal alternatives or display that there is enough market demand here to warrant the investment to sell their services in Canada. It's not difficult to satisfy CRTC regulations -- make available Canadian stations and not infringe (block or dupilicate the channel's broadcast) upon the identical timeslot of locally purchased and identical content.

Your complaints concerning the CRTC are naive as the current regulations protect the rights of local broadcasters to an identical product that has been fairly purchased on the free market system for their home market.

If you wish to make comparisons to a socialists or communist system then wouldn't the rights of private stakeholders have a greater chance of being quashed for the benefit of the people?

Now away from the politics and more on topic with a solution:

As others have stated, ATi provides excellent TiVo replacements with their all-in-wonder line. For myself, I'm waiting for the market release of the new ATi TV Wonder Pro (~C$129), which is based on the Theatre200 chipset that's part of 9700 and higher All-in-Wonder line and can be bundled with the excellent RF Remote Wonder.

http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/tvwonderpro/index.html

A basis for a near perfect digital entertainment hub. Though I'm not sure if this new TV Wonder will permit the primary video card to display the 8.5 ATI Multimedia Centre's EAZYLOOK that is available with an All-in-Wonder card. It's a 10' control/info display app to view, sort, control, and choose content in a comfortable format on your TV. The visuals far surpass anything that TiVo or any of the satellite receivers display.

Here's a recent review of it and the video features of the Theatre200 chip All-In-Wonder line.

http://64.4.22.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=9e7e5c4dc9d030f5470bf3a2c55d800c&lat=1054833772&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2esudhian%2ecom%2fshowdocs%2ecfm%3faid%3d385

[Mike Temporale]

Jason, it makes absolute market sense and has NOTHING to do with communism -- it's the segmented free market. In that regard, little to no difference within the States as it is here.

Each year television programming is sold on a per market basis -- same in the US as in Canada. Those who buy the rights to the product then sell advertising space to be displayed along with their purchased product for their marketplace. If external companies broadcast the same show with ads sold for their stated market then you have an undermining of the business set-up leaving those local stations who purchased the local shows at an unfair disadvantage -- in short, they're getting ripped off. There are similar regulatory controls to protect this very capitalistic system in both the USA and Canada.


Um, Yes and No. Programs are purchased and aired by local broadcasters, HOWEVER, in Canada, the CRTC dictates that 60% of the overall day be Canadian content.

This quote is from the CRTC's web page, which can be found here (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G11.HTM).

What is a Canadian program?
The CRTC will certify programs as Canadian if they meet the following criteria:

the producer is Canadian;
key creative personnel are Canadian;
75% of service costs and post-production lab costs are paid to Canadians.
Read the Canadian Program Certification factsheet for details.

Air time for Canadian programs
Private television stations and networks (e.g. CTV, Global,TVA) and ethnic TV stations must achieve a yearly Canadian content level of:

60% overall, measured during the day – i.e. 6AM and midnight;
50%, measured during the evening broadcast period – i.e. between 6PM and midnight.
CBC must ensure that at least 60% of its overall schedule, measured during the day – i.e. 6AM to midnight, is Canadian.

This is the problem that Canadians face. Some (maybe even most) Canadians have 0% interest in these Canadian TV shows. I for one, would pay more per month to avoid them! The only Canadian content I need is the local news, and I can get that on the radio.

[jpaq]

Jason, it makes absolute market sense and has NOTHING to do with communism -- it's the segmented free market. In that regard, little to no difference within the States as it is here.

I like blaming communism or socialism. It's more fun that way.
:twak:

[Keystone]

Um, Yes and No. Programs are purchased and aired by local broadcasters, HOWEVER, in Canada, the CRTC dictates that 60% of the overall day be Canadian content.

Yes, broadcasters (the television stations) must adhere to such CRTC stipulations in order to satisfy their broadcasting licenses.

As I touched upon in my previous message the closest comparison for providers to do is provide access to Canadian channels.

The beef in this thread isn't of Canadian content requirements on Canadian channels but of desired services of external providers not being available in Canada.

BlueRocket, sorry but you're misguided by confusing broadcasters (CBC, CTV, History Channel, etc..) with providers (Shaw, Rogers, Bell, etc.) which is the theme for this thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can't justify buying an ATi All-in-Wonder 9700 pro when my huffing (well overclocked) GF 4200's are just fine for the games that I play. For over a third of the price of such an All-In-Wonder the new TV Wonder Pro and an 80GB HDD will do most if not all that I desire as my VCR replacement (packed up last month...waking up too early for F1 fixes now :( ). Already I have a server machine running 24/7 that's hooked up to my TV (30' S-video cable) and stereo (SPDIF) to play racing games on 46" 's and provide a 2400+ song jukebox. For remote access I'm using a Logitech wireless mouse/keyboard combo (that thin black keysboard and optical mouse) plus a couple of powered USB hubs under the floor to my couch to plug in the steering wheel and other other USB gadget that I may plug in. Try all that with a TiVo.

The TV output with the Conexant C25871 encoder (very few companies used it) on the Leadtek GF4200 does an excellent job for the TV display. I noticed it to be far superior to display of most other video cards' TV output that use a Phillips encoder (the MSI 4200 w/ 7104 chip and previously an MSI GF 3 ti200 w/ a Phillips 7102) in my main machine). Unfortunately I haven't directly compared an ATi or Matrox output on my set-up.

Once I can record TV again I will be happy. If the new TV Wonder works out then I'll also set my dad's system up with one and a new HDD. With the independant TV tuner card then I'll be more free to upgrade my video card when the need arises.

[don dre]

ATI's 9700 series is upposed to have a much improved capture. The nice thing about it is you aren't just time shifting, you can keep the shows if you want. collect, say, SImpsons episodes. At any rate, run the A/V cable/s to your PC. Sometime soon the new Multimedia Center is supposed to come out. Rumor has it that is fixes most fo the display problems that have plagued past versions on TV. I use a computer for my entertainment center (saves space). Plus cpu DVD players have output rivalling dvd set tops running about $1k+. Moreover, I get music in other rooms with my ppc acting as the juke box. I simply hook it up to a set of speakers and play over the network. in theory, with 802.11G you could stream video through a laptop over a network but I'm still single and don't need a single TV. If it ever stops raining I will enjoy changing the music while sitting on the porch. AT any rate, the AIW 9700 is worth considering.

[Jason Dunn]

Jason, it makes absolute market sense and has NOTHING to do with communism -- it's the segmented free market. In that regard, little to no difference within the States as it is here.

Interesting. Thanks for correcting me - I had always assumed it was a case of the CRTC not allowing DirecTV into the coutry legally because there wasn't enough Canadian content. You're saying that isn't the case at all, which surprises me, but I'll defer to your knowledge on the subject and just point the finger at the providers like Shaw. I'm sure that Shaw COULD offer a slick PVR service, but they seem to not want to...

Lastly, I DO NOT WANT A COMPUTER IN MY LIVING ROOM. Everyone keeps suggesting ATI/computer solutions, which I do not want - been there, done that, it was more trouble than it was worth. So, please, stop giving me that suggestion - I'm looking for a standalone PVR solution, nothing else. Computers do not have the simplicity or stability of stand-alone home electronics. I fight with computers and Pocket PCs all day - I don't want to go through fighting with my PC-based DVD player again.

[lurch]

I need to tap into the awesome collective intelligence that reads this site
I DO NOT WANT A COMPUTER IN MY LIVING ROOM
I think the collective has spoken, and they seem to be saying:
SUCK IT UP MAN AND USE A COMPUTER

:robot: 0X


(I'm so obviously kidding)

[Greybard]

Panasonic is coming out with a new PVR that doesn't do TIVO (my cable already has a menu), but it does have an 80 gig hard drive (104 hrs of recording at max res.).

And what if you want to keep what you've recorded?

Well it also has a DVD burner built right in!

http://www.avdeals.com/dvdrecorders/dmre100hs.htm

Looks good, looks like it will be out next month.

[Jason Dunn]

Panasonic is coming out with a new PVR that doesn't do TIVO (my cable already has a menu), but it does have an 80 gig hard drive (104 hrs of recording at max res.).

Yeah, I tested out a Panasonic DVD-R unit and a sister model had the PVR features built in. The problem was that, unlike Tivo and some of these other devices in the US, there was no "intelligence" built into the system - it was just as dumb as a VCR. I should have mentioned that's also what I'm looking for - some intelligence. The show moves time slots? Still record it! I like to watch Star Trek? Record it for me when it's on! None of the Panasonic units I've seen have that functionality.

[MPSmith]

My favorite Tivo Forum is www.tivocommunity.com

Try this thread. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=be5f6c14c80df8f45a1ea486f2cbfd7f&threadid=115987&highlight=canada+and+available) It suggests going to www.yahoogroups.com and joining the Tivo- Canada board for answers. Hopes this helps!

[Jason Dunn]

Last summer I tried the Bell ExpressVu PVR 5100. Having waited over a year at that point for a Canadian PVR, I have one thing to say - AWESOME! IT ROCKED! (okay, that's two things)

Aha, cool - I was hoping that someone would relate some direct experience! Ok, so this sounds promising. How does the programming work? Can you "tag" a program or series and have it record all instances of it? What about programs changing times? If there's a shift in the time a program is airing, does it automatically update itself based on the programming? How "smart" is it?

[Jason Dunn]

...joining the Tivo- Canada board for answers. Hopes this helps!

I've just joined, and am waiting for approval - I hope someone in there has the perfect answer I'm looking for. :-)

[jeremyweisser]

ATI All In Wonder, simply amazing

[RobPPC]

I DO NOT WANT A COMPUTER IN MY LIVING ROOM

Err, what do you think a Tivo is?

[Greybard]

Like I said, my cable box supplies the fuctionality so it takes care of time slot changes and all I need is a dumb VCR that comes on when I want it to.

Sorry if it doesn't fit your bill, but it fits mine perfectly


Yeah, I tested out a Panasonic DVD-R unit and a sister model had the PVR features built in. The problem was that, unlike Tivo and some of these other devices in the US, there was no "intelligence" built into the system - it was just as dumb as a VCR. I should have mentioned that's also what I'm looking for - some intelligence. The show moves time slots? Still record it! I like to watch Star Trek? Record it for me when it's on! None of the Panasonic units I've seen have that functionality.

[randyhoutx]

Like many people, I poked around on the internet until i could find ways to ... circumvent the satellite-TV and Tivo service restrictions. After many different experiments, I now have a Tivo that holds 180 hours of programming and dual tuners. I can watch either satellite feed or watch a recorded feed while recording two others. Recently, I learned how to connect it to my network and pull the video off to burn to DVD!

My advice: get the all-in-one unit with the satellite receiver built in so you don't have to futz with quality settings (it is always near-DVD quality) and get the Tivo because it is MUCH easier to "upgrade" than Replay TV. the Phillips DSR6000 and Sony T60s are the best.

Great sites to get you started are:

http://www.9thtee.com
and the message boards at
http://www.dealdatabase.com

[hegedusa]

In the UK, Tivo never really did too well. I think it's disappeared now, well I don't see it in the shops anyway. I think the reason it disappeared was that it wasn't integrated with a cable or satellite box so it could only record 5 terrestrial channels - if you wanted it to record a cable or satellite channel it had to output infrared signals and switch channels manually, and obviously this is prone to error.

What is doing well, however, is the SKY+ box. Sky is a satellite service that transmits about 300 channels digitally. The sky+ box has two satellite tuners and records the digital feed directly. There is also a PVR available for digital terrestrial TV, but I believe that only picks up 30 or so channels.

What I wanted to say though was that I could not imagine watching TV without PVR functionality. I never need to stop what I'm doing to watch something. I can watch something 15 minutes after it starts, skip through the adverts and "catch up" by the end. I can pause anything I'm watching. I can rewind. I can set a whole load of things to record and not think about times or dates or tapes. The interesting thing is that my children (under 6) have never seen TV work any other way. As far as they are concerned, programmes are just on when they want. They cannot understand the concept of having to wait for something to be on.

Everyone I know with a PVR doesn't even touch their video any more - well, maybe just to play old tapes.

Now what would be neat is to be able to share recordings with friends over the internet. Sadly I think the technology to instantly transfer a 2Gb file over the internet will arrive before our short-sited copyright legislation allows it.

[lnohling]

www.Showshifter.com does a good job of turning a PC into a PVR,
I use an ATI AIW card
I have a Dish Sat Receiver with Infrared control but you can get SS to work with any cable box.
Don't want a PC in your living room, no problem
I have 4 RG6 coax cables going 80ft to my PC, Left+Right Audio Y&C Svideo.
The ATI AIW comes with a UHF wireless remote
Showshifter can recompess programs if you want to shrink them down for PocketPC viewing.

I use www.digiguide.com for a progam guide.
It you want Canada listings the you can use XMLTV to import them into DIGIGuide. see the DigiGuide forums for details.

DGShow is another add-on that takes care of catching every epsiode of selected programs no matter what time or channel they are on.

Sure its a lot of work to get it all going together but I get 90% of the shows I want and always have something to watch on my 120GB HD.

[Skitals]

Okay, it is time I chime in. I KNOW you said you dont want a computer based sollution, but im giving my input anyway. Afterall, you DID show some interest in XP Media Center Edition.

Right now I am in the middle of building an XP MCE box. Its actually extremely simply. Im going to get a Shuttle SN41G2 XPC computer:

http://www.hothardware.com/reviews/images/shuttle_nf2_sff/case_front.JPG

See how small it is? Its mobo has a BUILT-IN GeForce 4 MX gfx card. Built-in Realtek ALC 650 5.1 channel audio, built-in 100base-t networking, and built-in TV-out. Just get a barebones computer, throw in a cpu, ram, tv tuner, hdd, and dvd/cd-rw drive and you are setup with a SWEET tiny tiny computer for a good price. Now add software.... two options:

XP MCE

If you have an MSDN subscription you have access to Media Center Edition. If not, you can always download it. You can get the official OEM remote at new egg for $33. Now this would be an extremely sweet setup. You seem to think using a computer is inconvenient... that is not the case with MCE. Grab the remote, have a seat on your sofa and you will completely forget you have all the power of XP Pro behind the pretty blue interface.

SnapStream

I have SnapStream 3 running on a computer up stairs. This software is unbelievable. Im sure you have heard of SnapStream before, and not just from PVR stuff. Infact, odds are you have posted news about their PPC software in the past. When I was looking for PVR stuff and started playing with SnapStream PVS, I almost couldnt believe how well the software integrates with your PPC! Someone earlier mentioned you can reencode your shows to watch on your PPC... very cool, very brain-free and painless. What they failed to mention is the software acts as a streaming server. You can stream it at VHS quality to any or all computers in your house, and control and change channels on the pc you are streaming to. Not only can it stream to another computer, it can stream to your Pocket PC! In fact, it was made to! The web interface has a Pocket PC friendly version when you browse to it from PIE. You can stream shows that are pre-recorded or stream live-tv directly to your PPC! This is awsome with my wifi ipaq 5455.

Of course SnapStream also does time shift 'live' tv, integrated free program guide, record series automatically, etc.

Now you were complaining about quality of video from your PC to your TV. Um... get a new gfx card with better tv out. And if thats not the problem, get a better tv tuner card.

Its a shame you are passing up a computer for a pvr sollution. It makes the most sense given your circumstances.

And I will leave everyone with a little scenario. You and your wife/girlfriend are sitting on your sofa watching time-shifted (by 10 minutes) PVR 'live' TV. Your program is interupted... it seems the Emergency Broadcast System serves a purpose afterall. "North Korea has launched nuclear weapons at the united states and there is nothing we can do to stop the attack. Within 10 minutes the world as we know it will be over. Please do not panic, instead spend the last minutes with your loved ones." You and your loved one start turning your heads to look at each other, but before your eyes meet a white flash zips through the room and a second later, the world is over. THANKS A LOT PVR! YOU JUST STOLE THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF MY LIFE!

Lol, sorry... that thought crossed my mind though. Wouldnt time-shifted television defeat the purpose of emergeny broadcasts and alerts? 10-15 minutes can be a lot of time in a disaster.

Anyway, im realllllllly starting to ramble. Peace and goodluck.

[ctmagnus]

just can't get local programming like City TV.

Mmm... Liza Fromer on at 4 am... (Da*n time zone differences!)

[rubberdemon]

When I got my Shaw digital cable terminal installed in December, I asked the guy about future set top boxes and PVRs and he seemed to think that Shaw would be introducing something eventually, including possible HDTV compatibility.

But now it looks like they're going to introduce something called the NPVR - or Network PVR, which allows you to choose shows to be recorded - on Shaw's servers and then you can watch them through your Digital Cable Box. So sort of a halfway solution. I'd be curious to see if this had real benefits to owning the hardware yourself - maybe it will be like subscribing to voicemail vs buying an answering machine if there are not too many bugs.

See here for some details: http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7309

[Pony99CA]

Now what would be neat is to be able to share recordings with friends over the internet. Sadly I think the technology to instantly transfer a 2Gb file over the internet will arrive before our short-sited copyright legislation allows it.
Every Replay unit since the 4000 series allows that. They have Ethernet jacks so you don't have to use a phone connection to download program information, and, if you have more than one Replay, you can watch shows recorded on one Replay on all of your other Replays.

Steve

[BrianC]

I have an All In Wonder in addition to another dedicated TV card in another computer. At my home, my computers are networked up the kazoo. But having said that, my first gen ReplyTV blows them all out of the water when it comes to watching TV.

I'm not going to compare it to Tivo as there's too many pros/cons and you can decide that for yourself, but a standalone PVR is in another league compared to a computer based solution.

[Jonathon Watkins]

....Right now I am in the middle of building an XP MCE box. Its actually extremely simply. Im going to get a Shuttle SN41G2 XPC computer:

....See how small it is?

Ummm, Jason already has one of those beasties Skitals. He posted about how loud the fan and power unit were, so I don't think it's a goer.

I agree with him in this in this - I do not want a PC. A Tivo device is not a 'computer', despite contaning the components. It does one thing well. You don't have to fight with it, it just plain works. True computers are more powerfull and allow you to multiple tasks. They are also a royal pain at times. :|

In the living room relaxing I don't want to fight with PCs - and I've go a Shuttle SN41G2 XPC as well BTW.

I want something elegant that just works.

[ctmagnus]

As much as I'd love :ppclove: to have a computer in every single room in the house (including the closets :robot: ), the traditional PC form factor does have it's limits.

In a closer to ideal world, one would be able to interface with every single one of these computers via a Terminal Server Client-type program on one's trusty pocket PC. No keyboard/monitor/mouse required. And bluetooth will come into play here as well.

All very 8)

[Pony99CA]

As much as I'd love :ppclove: to have a computer in every single room in the house (including the closets :robot: ), the traditional PC form factor does have it's limits.
What about non-traditional PC form factors (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/slim_pc/slm/pro_slm_detail.php?UID=431&MODEL=MEGA651)?

Steve

http://www.msi.com.tw/images/product_img/slm_img/mega.jpg

[ctmagnus]

What about non-traditional PC form factors (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/slim_pc/slm/pro_slm_detail.php?UID=431&MODEL=MEGA651)?

Steve

http://www.msi.com.tw/images/product_img/slm_img/mega.jpg

Yeah, that'd work. As long as it's not the usual tower/desktop orientation. and it's silent. No fans, no optical drive noise, no nothing. However, the occasional rattle from the hard drive is acceptable.

Speaking of which, as much as I hate to brag, the PSU on the PC that I use every single day (5 1/2 years and counting!) has a next to silent PSU. You can only hear the fan if you put your ear extremely close to it. I have to wonder why PSU manufacturers ever strayed from that.

[Jason Dunn]

Err, what do you think a Tivo is?

Technically, anything with a CPU is a "computer" to some degree, but I don't refer to my Xbox as a computer. It's an appliance designed to do a few things, and do them very well. The entire user interface, hardware, and end-user experience is optimized for a few specific things. That's what I want - not a general-purpose computer that I have to fight with to do something simple.

Man, why does everyone keep trying to proove me "wrong" on this? It's my choice people - back the hell off. :2gunfire:

:lol:

[Jason Dunn]

Okay, it is time I chime in. I KNOW you said you dont want a computer based sollution, but im giving my input anyway. Afterall, you DID show some interest in XP Media Center Edition. Right now I am in the middle of building an XP MCE box. Its actually extremely simply. Im going to get a Shuttle SN41G2 XPC computer...

Two things that make my shy away from this:

1) I'm around my noisy Shuttle all day, the last thing I want is to have a noisy Shuttle in my living room. They're just too damn loud, even if you replace the fan - I haven't been able to find a replacement power supply, which is the REALLY loud part.

2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wouldn't be able to control my digital cable box, right? If it can't, then it's completely useless to me. :cry:

[Jason Dunn]

But now it looks like they're going to introduce something called the NPVR - or Network PVR, which allows you to choose shows to be recorded

Hmm - interesting! I'm not sure though, I like having control over things myself. :mrgreen:

[ctmagnus]

TiVo Hacks (http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005539/qid%3D1055034447/702-5977532-1177635), anyone? :mrgreen: