TomTom USA Available for Pre-Order from Mobile Planet

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.mobileplanet.com/private/pocketpcthoughts/product.asp?dept%5Fid=2310&pf%5Fid=MP731501&listing=1' target='_blank'>http://www.mobileplanet.com/private...31501&listing=1</a><br /><br /></div>"Uncluttered maps, easy-to-use controls, and crystal clear on-screen directions and verbal instructions allow you to plan trips, read maps and find your way around difficult traffic conditions with ease."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.mobileplanet.com/assets/product_images/MP731501.gif" /><br /><br />People in Europe have been raving about how excellent TomTom GPS solutions are, so it's exciting to see this solution finally being offered in North America. You can pre-order it from Mobile Planet for $319.95 US. [Affiliate]

[Khufu1]

I have Mapopolis today and love it, but I am greatly dismayed at the lack of any upgrade option to the newer map version. I feel this is poor support on their part considering the cost of the product.

What are your thoughts on TomTom?

Thanks,
-Drew

[GoldKey]

I have been field testing this for them for a couple of weeks, and all I can say is it is GREAT!

[portus]

It seems to require propritary GPS receiver, though? I wonder if they'll be offering software-only version if it works with most other CF/BT GPS receivers? Has any current testers tried it with other GPS devices?

[JoshB]

I was chosen to participate in the US Field Test, and I'm under NDA, so I'm not sure how much I can say, but I don't think anyone would mind if I share my opinion that TomTom is a great navigation system for Pocket PC.

The maps are very up-to-date - the only discrepancies I have encountered so far have been very new road revisions - within the last year or so. Every other road I have travelled on has been accurately represented. The POIs are also very recent and very complete.

The software is very easy to use, and very fast and responsive - even route planning. The thing I like most about it is how well adapted for driving the "Navigation" view is. It auto-zooms according to your speed, and the elevation (seen in the screenshot above) makes it very easy to visualize and understand how the roads are laid out ahead of you (much more so than an overhead view). Routes are automatically recalculated if you get off course or decide to go another way.

Voice navigation is clear and easy to understand. Like the auto-zoom feature, the software varies the time before it "warns" you of an upcoming turn, exit, etc. based on your speed (warns at 800 yards at highway speeds, 200 yards around town).

All in all, TomTom Navigator is a very well thought-out and implemented Pocket PC navigation system, with no major flaws that I can think of. It has also been a pleasure working with the TomTom USA staff during the field test.

I know I'm sounding like a TomTom fanboi, but I really think this is a great product, and I tend to "evangelize" products that I really like (do you know how many people I have convinced to buy Pocket PCs? :D )

If you have any questions, please feel free to post them, and I'll answer what I can. Again, I'm under NDA, but I'll answer what I can.

[JoshB]

It seems to require propritary GPS receiver, though? I wonder if they'll be offering software-only version if it works with most other CF/BT GPS receivers? Has any current testers tried it with other GPS devices?
I don't think it requires a propritary GPS, and they do offer a software-only version (check the pre-order details at Mobile Planet). The GPS connection application that comes with it has a list of a couple dozen different GPS receivers, including Bluetooth, sleeves, other manufacturers, and standard NMEA and SIRF GPSRs. I would say it will support just about everything.

[portus]

Do you mind answering he questions I just posted (right before your post)? Three more questions: (1) Options of male/female voice prompt? (2) What's the average (initial) route calculation time after the GPS gets a fix? (3) Can you compare the "operational smoothness" compared to other competitive products you have used?

Thanks,

[JoshB]

Do you mind answering he questions I just posted (right before your post)? Three more questions: (1) Options of male/female voice prompt? (2) What's the average (initial) route calculation time after the GPS gets a fix? (3) Can you compare the "operational smoothness" compared to other competitive products you have used?

Thanks,
I think I answered your questions, except that I haven't personally tested any other GPSRs with TomTom, but the support for them appears to be there.

Regarding male/female voice prompts, there are various male and female voices available for their European products, so I would expect the same for the U.S. The version I have has two voices, but I have only used the default. It's just a bunch of .WAV files in a folder, so theoretically, you could even create your own. :D TomTom has released an SDK (which I haven't looked at yet), so they seem pretty supportive of user add-ons like this.

Regarding the route calculation times, they're very fast. I have never experienced more than 3-4 seconds time to calculate a route, even less around town (2-3 seconds). On a related note, the GPS unit seems to obtain a fix quickly - much faster than my Magellan Meridian Gold.

Operational smoothness is very good. The application is very easy to use, and the "Navigation" mode has large buttons and interface elements designed to be used with your finger (not that any of us would ever use it while driving, right? :wink:). The app feels responsive and the interface and maps look very nice - good colors, fonts, etc. I haven't used any other direct competitors to TomTom Navigator (Mapopolis), but compared to Pocket Streets and PortableInternet's Portable Guide, the interface, smoothness, and overall visual appeal of TomTom are much nicer. This is a very professional looking and feeling application.

As a side note, if anyone from TomTom is reading this, and feels that any of my comments are not in agreement with the U.S. Field Test NDA, please let me know, and I will retract my statements. It has not been my intention to violate the NDA. I'm just very enthusiastic about this app, and since the press release announcing the U.S. release went out today, this might be a good opportunity to answer people's questions, and generate some interest and demand for the product. :D

Thanks,

JoshB

[portus]

JoshB,

Thanks about the feedback! Sad to say I wasn't picked as one of the field testers as I was eagerly awaiting to compare TomTom Nav to the leading competitiors Mapopolis and iGuidance (aka intelliNav/Routis/MyNavigator).

[dartman]

Do you order the cable kit extra (for the Axim for instance)? Is it just for power?

What have you been using for mounting the unit? Doe sit use an outside antenna as well?

dart

[JoshB]

The cables and mounting hardware come with the package - that's why there are different SKUs for each Pocket PC type.

Assuming nothing changes from the European and U.S. Field Test versions, it should come with:

12V power "Y" adapter - one end plugs into your Pocket PC (power and data)
GPS receiver (plugs into "Y" adapter with an RJ-11 plug
Various (very sturdy) mounting options (vent clip unit, windshield suction unit, etc.)

Actually, if you read the TomTom Navigator 1 (European version) (http://www.pocketgps.co.uk/tomtomnavcreview.asp) and TomTom Navigator 2 (http://www.pocketgps.co.uk/tomtomnavigator2.asp) reviews at Pocket GPS, you'll get a good idea of the included hardware and software. You can also read the TomTom Navigator 2 Upgrade Review (for v1.0 users) (http://www.pocketgps.co.uk/tomtomnavigator2upgrade.asp) to learn about the software changes made in version 2.x (the hardware is practically the same, except for the newer GPS unit shown in Jason's original post and the 2.x review linked above). The software has been revised, with a few new features, and of course, U.S. maps provided by TeleAtlas.

[jimmur]

JoshB

I was also part of the field test and agree with everthing you have stated. The program is very easy to use and learn. I have tried the Navigation function on short and long trips and they worked flawlessly. I must say I was impressed, Great Product.

Jim

[dartman]

Thanks for the info. I read the references you provided. The part about "activation" was troublesome.

I've ended up doing several hard resets on my Axim (rom updates, etc). The article sort of implies I'd be out of luck trying to reinstall and reactivate the software. Did I read this correctly?

Thanks,

dart

[imrankw]

Guys ,,, when will Tom Tom be available for PocketPC in US? Plus, I already have a GPS receiver from my PharosGPS software, does anyone know if I can use that with TomTom software? It is NMEA compatible.

[the_rapture]

I've tested it with the Radio Shack GPS receiver and it worked great using the drivers for the 4800 baud NMEA, in the beta I count over 40 different GPS units/drivers. Once they send the final product out we will be allowed to talk more so I'll post which ones are listed and screen shots etc.

[ClieTT]

I think the price is too expensive. There are plenty of good GPS hardware and software combo for $250 or less.

[hulksmash]

The price is worth it. I have also been beta testing it and without getting into details, it is far superior to the NAVMAN I have in operation, even though the hardware does clutter up my vehicle much more than the navman. The software of the TomTom unit is much more full-featured and the GPS antannae is much, much, more powerful and responsive, picking up an average of 8 satellites in 20 secs time but as many as 12 satellites at a time, unlike the Navman which usually barely links up with 3.

[disconnected]

That's a very good looking map.

The only GPS mapping software I've used is Mapopolis, so I guess most of my questions would relate to what I like and dislike in Mapopolis.

Things I like in Mapopolis --

Maps scroll smoothly and zoom in and out instantly.
Street names scroll along with the map.
Can route to/from address, intersection, landmark (including user-defined ones), contact, find-on-map, and GPS position.
Can create route without GPS.
Routing and automatic re-routing are both quite fast.
Maps show parks (in green), water (blue), and shopping/industrial areas in pink. I don't know if all map software shows these things.


Things I don't like --
Maps can be kept on storage card, but have to be loaded into main memory to be used; no dynamic map loading/unloading.
Have to select maps by county, not free-form area.
Spoken directions don't say street names.
Long-distance routing is kind of a pain -- you have to load starting and ending counties and also major roads for all states you go through.
Although most counties have POIs, there are no exit guides for the major road maps.

I'd appreciate any comments on these features or lack thereof in TomTom.

[davea]

JoshB did an excellent job of summarizing the characteristics of the
hardware and software package. I agree with everything he said.

As another Field Tester, I am VERY impressed with both the hardware and software. TomTom got everthing right. They paid attention to details such as three different mounting options were all provided in the kit (hardware is from Germany). The GPS unit was fast to acquire satellites, has a rubber ring on the bottom for stabilty and LED's on top (yellow =acquiring; green = locked it). Even includes charging your Axim as well as powering the GPS receiver. Voice prompts and visual route guidance was smoothly combined with the 3D VIEWs. The European versions do have multiple languages (and voice options), as well as down-loadable "Color Styles" of map display to add to the default options (they even have three "night" color styles included as default options)

It worked great with my DELL AXIM 400. Route claculation 3-4 seconds
around town. Maps were missing a couple of roads added in the last
1-2 years in my town and other minor stuff. We'll need to see the
production hardware/software/maps to see whether final package
was an improvement over the beta versions.

P.S. the TomTom GPS works great with both TeleType and the MS Pocket Streets software/maps so it is certain to be compatible with
with any NMEA 0183v2 or SiRF GPS receiver listed in their GPS Pull Down menu. By using the "FAVORITES" menu, you can save your
Home location and more than 10 other "Favorite" locations. That makes
it easy to use any of these as either Departure or Destination points
for your Naviation/Route Planning.

[davea]

COMPARE TOMTOM Navigator to DISCONNECTED's Likes/Dislikes of Mapopolis:

-----------------------------------------------------------
Things I like in Mapopolis -- (from DISCONNECTED)

Maps scroll smoothly and zoom in and out instantly.
Street names scroll along with the map.
Can route to/from address, intersection, landmark (including user-defined ones), contact, find-on-map, and GPS position.
Can create route without GPS.
Routing and automatic re-routing are both quite fast.
Maps show parks (in green), water (blue), and shopping/industrial areas in pink. I don't know if all map software shows these things.

RESPONSE: In general, I can't don't see anthing on your "Things I like"
list that TomTom Navigator doesn't do VERY well. Scrowling in and out
is down with a "Slider bar" on the right side of the map display or tapping
plus or minus signs in Navigator 3D mode.


Things I don't like -- (from DISCONNECTED)
Maps can be kept on storage card, but have to be loaded into main memory to be used; no dynamic map loading/unloading.
Have to select maps by county, not free-form area.
Spoken directions don't say street names.
Long-distance routing is kind of a pain -- you have to load starting and ending counties and also major roads for all states you go through.
Although most counties have POIs, there are no exit guides for the major road maps.

RESPONSE: The entire state of Alabama was compressed to 24meg which I loaded to my SD card. It is instantly available when Navigator
is loaded. These 6 states (AL_GA_FL_SC_NC_MS) are stored in 149Meg. It's been very nice to have the entire state on line (Zooming in and out is lightning fast with Alabama loaded) When I loaded the 6 STATES into my
CF Card, zooming in and out was perhaps a tiny bit slower. (The slowness seemed to be re-writing the map display). Zoomed all the way out, you have all 6 states on the screen at one time, so Route planning would work instantly between those particular states. TomTom provides a "Switch Map" option so you can toggle back in forth between multiple maps stored on your PPC. (Only the above two map options were provided in our Field Test CD) TomTom does not speak street names either (Think pre-recorded directions here). POIs can be selectively actiivated/de-activated on TomTom maps. In Europe, there are optional "add on" POI databases as well for TomTom.

[invaders]

Does anyone know if there will be a Pocket PC with built-in GPS receiver anytime soon? Garmin have this Palm device out shortly, will there be a Pocket PC version? As soon as there's such a device I'll rush to the store to buy TomTom. I hate all the cabling, attaching and detaching.

[nosmohtac]

As another field tester, I agree with everything previously stated about this product.

I have seen on this and other websites as well, the coming availability of a bluetooth gps receiver from tomtom. This may be an option to avoid the previously noted clutter in your vehicle, and add the ability to use it outside the vehicle.

[hollis_f]

Does anyone know if there will be a Pocket PC with built-in GPS receiver anytime soon? Garmin have this Palm device out shortly, will there be a Pocket PC version? As soon as there's such a device I'll rush to the store to buy TomTom. I hate all the cabling, attaching and detaching.In which case the various BT GPS devices were made for you. Having built-in GPS in a PPC isn't very useful.

What's the point of carrying all that GPS hardware around with you when you don't need it? All it is is extra mass and volume.

Often the best GPS signal in a car is not in the same place as the best place to view the screen of a PPC.

With a BT receiver you have no cables to attach/detach/trip over. You just place the GPS receiver where it's get the best signal (on the dashboard or the rear parcel shelf in a car; in my top pocket if walking) and put the PPC where you can see the screen.

[Len Egan]

I also was chosen as a tester and agree with Josh.
The speed with which the program calulates routes is exceptional. The speed that it re-routes is even faster!!! Best GPS I've seen!

[cessquill]

Use TTN2.05 in the UK and I can't praise it enough. There were some initial problems with this launch, but they all seem to be sorted. I have the whole of the UK down on 96mb of an SD card, with a BT GPS system living in the back of the car.

The part of the software that deals with the GPS connectivity is a separate "application" (well, I don't really know what's it's technically called). It's kind of like the Printers bit on your PC. You configure what GPS unit you have through this (many are supported) and Navigator quizzes this for it's data. Very slick.

It's quick, intuitive, and extremely useful. There were no male/female voices on the installtion from what I remember (although there were many different languages), but as mentioned it is just a directory of WAVS that are dynamically pasted together to form your instructions. I see no reason why you can't implement your own, and I would have thought that TomTom would be planning to produce alternative add-ons (but don't quote me on that).

The SDK has enabled third parties to create extra modules that provide new features to the software (although a lot of these became redundant as TomTom integrated them into the core application at v2). The one I always have running here warns me of up-coming Points Of Interest (in my case, speed cameras).

I haven't compared it with anything else on the market unfortunately, but I really like it. That said, the 3D view, although looking like Tron, is not of that much use on the road. If you have a junction coming up, then it doesn't let you look around corners anywhere near as well as the true overhead view.

[lurch]

Yet another field tester weighing in -- and I agree! This product totally rocks. I've used a Pretec CompactGPS and Pocket Streets & Trips in the past, and both the TomTom hardware and software kick the butts of my previous system. So much faster, so much nicer... it is a little more expensive, but depending on your use, it's can really be worth it: this is only useful for in-vehicle uses, in fact, it's only possible for in-vehicle uses. If you're hiking, or walking around or something, you need a different solution.

[the_rapture]

Yet another field tester weighing in -- and I agree! This product totally rocks. I've used a Pretec CompactGPS and Pocket Streets & Trips in the past, and both the TomTom hardware and software kick the butts of my previous system. So much faster, so much nicer... it is a little more expensive, but depending on your use, it's can really be worth it: this is only useful for in-vehicle uses, in fact, it's only possible for in-vehicle uses. If you're hiking, or walking around or something, you need a different solution.

The software should work, but it's the hardware that is powered by your vehicle. That's the only reason I'm thinking about hanging on to my Radio Shack unit because it's battery powered.

[lurch]

The software should work, but it's the hardware that is powered by your vehicle. That's the only reason I'm thinking about hanging on to my Radio Shack unit because it's battery powered.
The hardware does need a car (as you said) but the software only does what it's intended to do when you're on a road it recognizes (i.e. plan a route somewhere when you're in a gigantic parking lot, and it won't calculate the route until you get to a road it knows) -- that doesn't exactly matter when you're hiking anyway, since it won't know trails anyway :) but I find that Pocket streets is better for that application...
But you're right, I guess it's possible.

[cessquill]

The BT GPS unit I use works perfectly well in a pocket or bag and is battery powered. I don't know what version of TTN or maps you guys are getting, but one of the navigation options on mine is walking - this takes you down routes that are blocked from vehicle access and any direction down a one-way street, but avoids big roads.

That said, it's mainly a vehicle navigation tool, so it possibly wouldn't deal with hiking requirements too well. Not tried.

[JoshB]

Thanks for the info. I read the references you provided. The part about "activation" was troublesome.

I've ended up doing several hard resets on my Axim (rom updates, etc). The article sort of implies I'd be out of luck trying to reinstall and reactivate the software. Did I read this correctly?

Thanks,

dart
The activation isn't quite the same as the famous/feared MS Windows Product Activation. When you install, a Device ID number is generated (in conjunction with your CD key), and you can reinstall to that device as many times as you want. Since hardware doesn't change as drastically on Pocket PCs as on desktops, you shouldn't run into the situation where you change something on your Pocket PC and have to re-activate.

Also, TomTom is generous about being able to install to another device (say if you drop your Jornada in the toilet, and get a nice shiny new iPAQ 5555). There is a delay of 1 week before you can install and activate on another device, and the delay period resets.

So in theory, the activation concept may seem worrisome, but in practice, I haven't had any problems with it.

Someone had mentioned the 3rd party apps that are available that take advantage of the features exposed with the SDK (GPS Assist looks like a cool tool), I really hope that we get some community support to get features like this available for the USA version. For example, in the UK, you can download a POI database of user-submitted locations of speed and red-light cameras, and use a 3rd party program to monitor your speed and proximity to a speed camera, and warn you if you're going to fast. Even though speed cameras aren't as widespread in the US as they seem to be in the UK, I still think this would be a great feature, and one that's entirely within the reach of the user community.

Maybe I'll see what I can do in my copious free time... :D

JoshB

[JoshB]

The BT GPS unit I use works perfectly well in a pocket or bag and is battery powered. I don't know what version of TTN or maps you guys are getting, but one of the navigation options on mine is walking - this takes you down routes that are blocked from vehicle access and any direction down a one-way street, but avoids big roads.

That said, it's mainly a vehicle navigation tool, so it possibly wouldn't deal with hiking requirements too well. Not tried.
Walking mode is an option in the USA version, too, but I haven't tried it out because I'm using a wired GPS unit in my car.

I have found that TomTom Navigator can be useful on a standalone Pocket PC (with no GPS connection) for mapping and limited routing needs, so Walking mode might be useful there, too.

[claud9999]

For those of you who have used CoPilot Live and Tom Tom's software, how do they compare?

I do like the 3-d display that Tom Tom provides but I'm unsure whether the three-d actually helps in navigation. I do like CoPilot's text-to-speech ("in 1 mile, turn left on first street", as opposed to a canned "turn left ahead"). I also find the "planning mode" critical (enter a source and destination and it gives you directions and distance total/drive time total.)

I also like that CoPilot Live's desktop software can be installed with all of the data so I can have it installed at home and work in case I need to generate a new set of maps.

I've found that CoPilot Live (re)routes in a matter of a couple seconds and their maps are very compact (100-mi radius from downtown SJ is about 15MB).

[JoshB]

claud9999-

I think the 3-D view really does help navigation, because it lays out the streets almost exactly as you would see them looking forward in the car. It's hard to explain, but it just "clicks" a lot better in my brain to see the streets laid out in the 3-D view, rather than looking at the top-down 2-D view, and having to translate that into what my eyes are seeing in front of the car.

The speech navigation cues are pretty good. For example, on the freeway, I get an "exit ahead" message about a mile in advance. Then, I get "After 800 yards, take the exit," "Take the exit, then turn left." The warning distance varies with your speed (800 yards on the freeway, 200 yards around town, etc.).

There is a very robust planning mode in TomTom Navigator, where you can set anything (address, POI, or just a spot on the map) as Departure and Destination, then calculate the route. You can view the route on the map, in a table with turn-by-turn directions and distances, or in a split view with both. You can also demonstrate or "walk through" the route in the Navigator view, complete with voice prompts.

There is no desktop version of the TomTom maps, but the do compress very well. The entire state of Oregon (all streets and POIs) is about 19MB. The Oregon, Washington, and Idaho map is about 39MB, and the Oregon/Washington/Idaho/Utah/Nevada/Arizona/California is 149MB. These are from the field test, and I don't know how the map groupings will be handled in the retail version, but you can see that compression is extremely good. Now I just need to get a 256MB CF card, so I can fit the entire western U.S. on there (only have a 128MB card with OR/WA/ID for now).

JoshB

[cessquill]

I think the 3-D view really does help navigation, because it lays out the streets almost exactly as you would see them looking forward in the car. It's hard to explain, but it just "clicks" a lot better in my brain to see the streets laid out in the 3-D view, rather than looking at the top-down 2-D view, and having to translate that into what my eyes are seeing in front of the car.


Having used both views I only switch to 3D to show it off now. If you look at the screenshot used on the front page and suppose you were going to take the first left. In 3D view you wouldn't be able to see what was around the corner as it only shows exactly what you see when looking out of the window. 2D gives you that added advantage of seeing around corners (and leaping tall buildings with a single bound). I know what you mean about intuitiveness, but you do get used to it.

The POI add on I use is a free utility called CheckPOInt that you can set to monitor any POIs you've got installed. Fortunately PocketGPS.co.uk kindly maintain a free database of speed camera POIs which CheckPOInt looks at and plays a wav if I'm near any. Very cool indeed.

[iPAQuPAQ?]

I too was lucky enough to be in on the beta/field test, and I must agree with the above posts, this product is great.

As a tester in Southern California (Land of a billion freeways, highways, access roads, etc.) I am VERY impressed at how well this system works, even when I try and confuse it during rush hour (pretty much all day out here) and take alternate routes. I am also using it on an older 3600 series iPAQ and having the separate power and GPS module have made me keep around this relic for just this purpose.

[Kaber]

I've been very happy with Pharos Ostia (routing, auto rerouting, voice prompts), but the 3D nav really intrigues me with the TTN.

Bottom line:

How much is it for the software only? Will using it with a garmin etrex venture still provide me with full features?

update:I could see myself buying this... but not for $179.95 just for the software.

[William]

Will using it with a garmin etrex venture still provide me with full features?

update:I could see myself buying this... but not for $179.95 just for the software.
It sure will. I use it in conjunction with an eTrex Vista and I'm very hapy with the combination. Of course you get all features of Tomtom but things like altitude, max speed, large compass etc. from the Garmin as well.

BTW, I don't think USD 180 for software only is too much. It is a first class product. Over here the software is EUR 170 with only 1 country map included. For the whole of Europe you pay an extra EUR 190 (which I did). I guess (I may be wrong) that for USD 180 you get the software and the whole US on maps. Quite a deal.

[William]

... and I would have thought that TomTom would be planning to produce alternative add-ons (but don't quote me on that).

No English voices yet but they are coming...
TomTom Add-ons (http://www.tomtom.com/products/platform/extra_info.php?ID=31&Language=1&Extra_Page=20#voi)

[portus]

In this market of flooding competitive GPS produtcs, putting up a price tag of $180 for the software only is just too high. The days of Destinator is over.

The point is, no matter how good the GPS H/W, S/W combined performance and sensitivity is, there's always blind spots in signal reception.

I can see intelliNav and Mapopolis trying hard to catch up since these two products still have the best map presentation. The winning factor will be which one routes the driver through the blind and difficult spots safely and effectively.

william,
Comparing the pricing of the US version vs. the Europe version is unrealistic. How many "competitive" products are available for the European? TomTom has pricing advantaqe because of its dominance in the Europe, which is not the case in the US.

[JoshB]

A large portion of the cost for all GPS map software is the licensing fees to the company that provides the map data. They don't give it away cheaply.

TomTom has partnered with TeleAtlas to provide the USA map data, and you can be sure that a large portion of the cost of each copy of TomTom Navigator USA is going to TeleAtlas for map licensing fees.

Looking at detail map software for handheld GPSRs (Garmin, Magellan, etc.), you see the same thing. For example, the MSRP for Magellan MapSend Topo is $149, and it's based on data that's more than 7 years old! (Granted, you can find it online for ~$80, but still... 8O)

So in essence, you wouldn't be paying $180 for just the software, but for the software plus detailed, up-to-date, high quality maps and POIs.

[William]

william,
Comparing the pricing of the US version vs. the Europe version is unrealistic. How many "competitive" products are available for the European? TomTom has pricing advantaqe because of its dominance in the Europe, which is not the case in the US.
I don't think so. You forget that the dominance exists because of quality, not because there are no competitors.
A more valid reason for the lower price in the US is that all maps are available from one source. In Europe the map maker (in TomTom's case TeleAtlas) has to negotiate with different authorities in several countries to get a complete coverage. In Spain this even goes down to a regional or local level. That is a reason why the maps of Spain are much less detailed than that of other European countries, no matter if you take TomTom, MapBlast.com or Microsoft's MapPoint. It is also this hassle that we pay for over here.

[portus]

That's why I asked "How many competitive products are there against TomTom in Europe?" In order to be competitive, they need to be comparable in feature and routing effectiveness. There's no European maps available for intelliNav and Mapopolis is beginning to fight for the turf there. CoPilot is also US based only. What competitive products were you referring to for the Europe?

[William]

That's why I asked "How many competitive products are there against TomTom in Europe?" In order to be competitive, they need to be comparable in feature and routing effectiveness. There's no European maps available for intelliNav and Mapopolis is beginning to fight for the turf there. CoPilot is also US based only. What competitive products were you referring to for the Europe?
I guess this is a trick question? If I name a few products I would indicate that they "are comparable in feature and routing effectiveness". But they are not. Tomtom has much better quality. Anyway, here are a few products for the PPC that are sold for the European market: Destinator, Navigate / Tegaron Scout, Map&Guide, Alturion, MobileNavigatorPDA, TeleType, Navman. I am sure there are more.

[Kaber]

Pharos Ostia (http://pharosgps.com/products/accessories/Ostia_Software/NAV02.htm) is only $79.95 for the software only. I live in Southern California. The maps have never failed me. They seem up to date, with a good selection of POIs and the voice notices are nice. The routing can take a long time on occasion, but only initially and the autorerouting works well and pretty quick.

I'm using the 3.0 version that came with the iGPS 180 (I have since bought a eTrex Venture to get away from the 12v cigarette lighter plug the 180 has). The new 5.0 version of the software allows you to make destinations from the addresses of Contacts on your PPC, and has routing options like "Fastest"(by speed limit) "Shortest" (by distance) and "No Highways" (self explanitory). I can upgrade for $30.

I've already spent some $500 on GPS stuff (including cables). I'm afraid I just won't spend another $180 to get the neat "3D" display. If/when the price comes down to somewhere under $100 I'll take another look.

[portus]

I guess this is a trick question? If I name a few products I would indicate that they "are comparable in feature and routing effectiveness". But they are not. Tomtom has much better quality. Anyway, here are a few products for the PPC that are sold for the European market: Destinator, Navigate / Tegaron Scout, Map&Guide, Alturion, MobileNavigatorPDA, TeleType, Navman. I am sure there are more.

Never meant to trick you in the question. Just wonder about available alternatives in the Europe. Which of them are available software-only (and works with various other GPS receivers, of course)?

In regards to map licensing, if the demand-and-supply rule applies, TeleType map data licensing should be significantly cheaper than that from NavTech because otherwise TomTom could have gone with NavTech.

From a different perspective, none of the features in TomTom Navigator is innovative. The 3D view was first introduced in Destinator and what hinders it from becoming the hot product was because of its lesser performance in NMEA support, sluggish operational performance and, again, big price tag. What do we get from TomTom aside from its "better overall experience" over competitive products that are half priced?

A year ago when PPC devices are priced at $500 and over, a software-only product like Destinator priced at $249 seemed acceptable. How do you justify the cost of $180 for the GPS software alone when nowadays you can get a pretty usabel Dell Axim for the same price (as of today)?

[William]

@Portus:
We will see. If you are right and nobody wants to pay the USD 180 for TomTom, the price will have to come down or the product will be taken from the US market.

[portus]

Things don't necessarily happen in extremes. There are some plain and even out-dated products out there still selling bundled with GPS H/W and the sale could sustain their cost because of the size of these small companies.

I don't think the price will come down even if the sale doesn't pick up. But I guess we'll see discounts every now and then depending on the real sale and TomTom's business plan for the US version.

[davea]

... this is only useful for in-vehicle uses, in fact, it's only possible for in-vehicle uses. If you're hiking, or walking around or something, you need a different solution.


HOW ABOUT A HIGH GEEK FACTOR SOLUTION:

I have a portable 12 Volt solution that runs both the GPS and DELL AXIM perfectly. It's called VECTOR POCKET GENERATOR. Although it's no longer offered by www.vectormfg.com , they offer other "luggable" power solutions (they call COMPACT JUMPSTART SYSTEM) starting at $40.

A description of VECTOR POCKET GENERATOR
"This portable power system weighs about 4 pounds (1.8 kg) and recharges cell phones, laptops, camcorders and even car batteries. The Pocket Generator provides 110-volt AC, 12-volt DC, a 50-watt inverter and comes in a waterproof carrier."

[disconnected]

davea,

Thanks for the answers. It's very tempting, especially for the ability to access whole states, and even multiple states, at once.

[freeway680]

I am a palm user but waiting to buy my first pocket pc, h2215 and an emtac gps plus mapopolis navigator.

emtac gps costs $350
mapopolis costs $99
total of $449

but now i am thinking about the tomtom bluetooth gps and software bundle which has the same exact cost, $449, from mobileplanet

http://www.mobileplanet.com/product.asp?dept_id=2310&pf_id=MP731500&mscssid=1K08X65BPG258HVHPGSSK55SQS3QE0BB&listing=1

Please give me some advice if any of the field testers also experienced mapopolis. Thank you

[bucho]

Can you use TomTom USA software and maps with the existing bluetooth receivers, specifically the one from Socket? Do you think it's worth the wait for the Bluetooth TomTom Navigator 2? Has anybody tested this and how does it compare with the other BT GPS hardware? Anybody knows when is this Bluetooth combo product going to be available? Their website says June for the standalone and early July for the combo wireless... don't understand why 2 different dates. But their site doesn't mention the Navigator 2 for USA either.

[the_rapture]

I downloaded the demo for CO for Mapopolis and have used XMap and I'd say if you can wait a few weeks (days?) I'd wait for TomTom, the 3D stuff is a real bonus! I enjoy seeing it as if I'm driving.. Now if it could just tell me that there are cars stopping in front of me so I don't run into them, :lol:

[bucho]

Also, I need to get the software and maps for both, USA and Europe. How the heck do I buy that? It seems to me that I have to pay twice for the software :-(

&lt;kf>

[hollis_f]

Can you use TomTom USA software and maps with the existing bluetooth receivers, specifically the one from Socket? Do you think it's worth the wait for the Bluetooth TomTom Navigator 2? Has anybody tested this and how does it compare with the other BT GPS hardware? Anybody knows when is this Bluetooth combo product going to be available? Their website says June for the standalone and early July for the combo wireless... don't understand why 2 different dates. But their site doesn't mention the Navigator 2 for USA either.If the software is the same as the European version - it works stunningly well with the Emtac BT GPS.

You can read a review of the TomTom BT GPS on http://www.pocketgps.co.uk/

[iPAQuPAQ?]

... and I would have thought that TomTom would be planning to produce alternative add-ons (but don't quote me on that).

No English voices yet but they are coming...
TomTom Add-ons (http://www.tomtom.com/products/platform/extra_info.php?ID=31&Language=1&Extra_Page=20#voi)

On the US field test install CD are 3 female voices ("Bonnie", "Lori" and "Lisa") and one male ("Richard").

Still waiting for "Klingon".......

[umichboy]

How much of the USA do you carry on the PPC at once? Or rather, how large are the map files for say Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana?

[the_rapture]

At this present time we only received the maps from our areas and they are beta maps so the sizes may be different in the final product. Some of the individual state maps are approx. 17MB for CO, PA 32 MB. Then there are regional maps, example: OH, WI, IL, IN, MI, KY, TN (159 MB). At this time I couldn't tell exactly how TomTom will have them arranged for the final product, but as soon as we receive the final product I'm sure someone will post a reveiw.

[the_rapture]

Also, I need to get the software and maps for both, USA and Europe. How the heck do I buy that? It seems to me that I have to pay twice for the software :-(

&lt;kf>

Don't quote me on this but you might be able to talk to them and see about buy one set of maps seprate from the software since the software "should" work with any of their maps. Do any of our European users know if you can buy maps without the software and approx how much they charge?

[hollis_f]

Do any of our European users know if you can buy maps without the software and approx how much they charge?You can only buy the full set of European maps, if you don't want the software. They come on 8 CDs and the whle set costs around $200 (with tax and shipping)

[the_rapture]

I think it would be nice or smart to sell just a subset of maps at a lower cost, then people who can't afford or don't want to spend that kind of money wouldn't have to. Mapopolis does this an it makes it more affordable.

[iPAQuPAQ?]

For me:

Northern California - 33Mb
Southern California - 33Mb
All of California - 66Mb (Duh!)
California & Nevada - 75Mb
California, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada & Arizona - 149Mb

[umichboy]

Is that last figure of 149 for maps as detailed as the other sets, or are the regional sets less detailed at high zoom levels?

[iPAQuPAQ?]

They appear to be as detailed as the others. I'm not too familiar with streets in Idaho, but from what I can tell they are fine.

[umichboy]

Thanks for all the info, I think I'll pick one of these up. Might save me $2000 when I go to buy a car at the end of the year.

Any thoughts on how tomtom compares to in-car systems?

[sting0r]

Hi All --

At first I thought I was one of the unlucky ones not selected by TomTom for their USA field test. I just found out not being selected has a big perk, a 50% discount!!!!

Now here is my Dilema, I can get the TomTom software for only $100. My original intention was to do that and use it with my CoPilot sleeve (the newer version). But earlier this week ALK decided to start selling the bluetooth GPS for $199, another great bargain!!!! But now with the TomTom discount I can get their Bluetooth GPS / Software package for $224.50.

So, here is my question. Does anyone have an opinion on the TomTom bluetooth GPS receiver????? I know the CoPilot one is the EMTAC and has received great reviews. One of my major concerns is size, does anyone know how the TomTom receiver compares in size???? If it's smaller I am in....

Anyone have any feedback????

Sting0r

[PeterY]

47x86x18mm/76g

In fact, here's a picture:
http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/comments.asp?id=126

[PeterY]

Even better, here's a zillion:
http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=54&page=5

[sting0r]

Looks like it's smaller then all the other ones !!!!!

[ctmagnus]

But earlier this week ALK decided to start selling the bluetooth GPS for $199

BT GPS! ~50% less! Nifty! But who/what's ALK?

[sting0r]

Sorry ALK is Travroute. Check out www.travroute.com

[crash]

i also was not chosen for the trial. i am tempted to jump on the gps system just for the discount alone. i don't do alot of traveling but definately could use the navigation feature because when i do travel i like to look up routes for areas i am unfamiliar with. lately i've been taking little cruises and using mapquest to navigate. i'd like to know if anyone knows any head to test tests between the new tomtom system and competitors such as pharos. also the gps works independently from the phone right? (just checking,) i'm still kind of new here and i understand a little (very little) about bluetooth. is there and way to connect an xda using a bluetooth setup to cut down on wiring. i've also found a site where the compared various gps systems and said the one drawback to using a pda phone version was the lack of bluetooth in the setups made the gps only functional when wired to the car. i'm wondering if a bluetooth setup would also allow use outside the car (not that i really know where i want to track myself :? ) the geek in me wants to know my options before making the jump by the end of the month. sorry for the long run on post but i like to read up on stuff before making the plunge. thanks, crash

[imrankw]

Has anyone even ordered or received the tomtom usa product from mobileplanet yet? The first time I checked, it was due on 11th june, then 12th, then 17th and now some are due 30th? I am wondering if anyone has gotten them yet and should I place an order for a product thats just not arrived in stores yet!

[PeterY]

Has anyone even ordered or received the tomtom usa product from mobileplanet yet? The first time I checked, it was due on 11th june, then 12th, then 17th and now some are due 30th?!
Sounds like people are ordering them faster than they can restock them

[sting0r]

No I think that is because the official release will be June 30th........... Could also be a lot of people buying regardless, since TomTom is known as the best in Europe....

[johnwallis]

Interested in all the positive feedback from testers re the US TomTom.

I've been using the Destinator system in UK & Europe for about a year (with O2 xda, equiv T-Mobile PPCPE). This also has a 3-d display, which I really prefer for driving in unfamiliar areas.

HOWEVER, a real frustration :mrgreen: with the system is that you cannot route plan across mapset boundaries. If you don't know the area (if so, you possibly wouldn't ned the GPS in the first place?), this is REALLY unhelpful. While it may be challenging for the software, planning routes across adjacent mapsets for me is almost a nesessity.

Prospective purchasers of TomTom (or any other GPS come to that) might want to consider if this important to them, and if their target GPS does it.

Does anyone know if any of the systems mentioned in this topic offer this facility? (FYI, Destinator inform me that in their next software version, you can remap the mapsets, but this still doesn't quite address the issue for me. )

Rgds all
John

[kinged]

Can anyone tell me about Tomtom software?

1. It appears that the map does not show the name of the streets. A huge minus?

2. Does the map show you if the destination is on the right or left?

Thanks in advance.

[hollis_f]

Can anyone tell me about Tomtom software?

1. It appears that the map does not show the name of the streets. A huge minus?

2. Does the map show you if the destination is on the right or left?

Thanks in advance.
There are two mapping screens - one shows all the details like street names and your route, but it doesn't do the voice navigation. The other is for navigating - where you want screen updates to be as fast as possible. So that just shows the roads.

[kinged]

Thanks, how about when you arrived at destination, does it tell you if the destination is on the right or left?

[ale_ers]

BTW, Tom Tom is in the US today and should ship this week.

[hollis_f]

Thanks, how about when you arrived at destination, does it tell you if the destination is on the right or left? Er - no! I presume they expect people to be able to see their destination once they arrive there.

[kinged]

So if it does not tell you, does the map indicate if the destination is on the right or left. Sorry to ask so much. But it helps me to decide.

[umichboy]

Telling you which side of the road something's on really helps. I was driving around in unfamiliar territory and the Lexus Navigation System told me it was on the left. I was on a road that was 3 lanes on each side, so it made my life much easier since I was able to go to the left lane about half a mile in advance.

[the_rapture]

Everyone should be receiving their product, I know that they are shipping since I've gotten mine. I've been driving in D.C. for that last few weeks and it's been a great product and help! When I'm approaching my exit it tells me to stay left or right depending on which side the exit is on. When I arrive at my destination it will only say "your destination is 100 yds ahead" (Something like). Then when you reach your destination it says that have, so then you'd only have to look left or right.

[egads]

Hi All --

At first I thought I was one of the unlucky ones not selected by TomTom for their USA field test. I just found out not being selected has a big perk, a 50% discount!!!!

Now here is my Dilema, I can get the TomTom software for only $100. My original intention was to do that and use it with my CoPilot sleeve (the newer version). But earlier this week ALK decided to start selling the bluetooth GPS for $199, another great bargain!!!! But now with the TomTom discount I can get their Bluetooth GPS / Software package for $224.50.

So, here is my question. Does anyone have an opinion on the TomTom bluetooth GPS receiver????? I know the CoPilot one is the EMTAC and has received great reviews. One of my major concerns is size, does anyone know how the TomTom receiver compares in size???? If it's smaller I am in....

Anyone have any feedback????

Sting0r

How did you get the discount ?
I've looked around TomTom and MobilePlanet and have not see a discount ???

[hollis_f]

How did you get the discount ?
I've looked around TomTom and MobilePlanet and have not see a discount ???You have to had applied to take part in their beta test program. Sorry, but it's obviously closed now.

[bbehrens]

I have used a Holux CF GPS with an Ipaq 3850 and Mapopolis software for a year before acquiring my O2 XDA II this past February. Once the O2 came in I had a few choices regarding GPS. I could get the O2 backpack but that seems to be a problem - inventory-wsie. So I acquired a TomTom Bluetooth GPS and I haven't looked back. The software IS great, no question, and the unit does acquire signal and calculate routes quickly. There ARE, however, some issues that folks need to know - both as users and - if they read these posts - the folks at Tom Tom. The 'noise' about Tom Tom being proprietary about the GPS port is NOT NOISE - it IS real. If the Tom Tom GPS software has been loaded, you CANNOT 'see' the GPS via any other software. This CAN be fixed - however - by downloading the nice utility Bluetooth Tools. Once installed, just remove the bond to the GPS and recreate it. With Bluetooth tools you will get an extra screen at the end that will allow you to select a COM port for the BT signal to be read on. Pick one and check 'ON' the check box. NOW - other software - such as Navio or Vito Technology's Vito Navigator II can read the signal from the GPS - without TomTom GPS started - just turn on the GPS unit and start either Navio (set to read Type NMEA 0183 v2.0 on the port you picked - it should SHOW up as TomTom Wireless GPS on COMx, with Speed: 57600, Parity: none, Data bits: 8, and stop bits: 1) or Navigator II ( set to read COMx where x is what you selected in the BT bonding add-on from Bluetooth Tools, Baud Rate is 57600, Parity is none, data bits is 8, and stop bits is 1) and you'll be reading the TT BT signal just fine. NOW, the REASON you might want to do this is that TTN USA is USELESS off-road. SO, these other tools come in handy if you need to deal with anything off-road - and that includes parking lots at mega-malls, etc.

Item 2 - so far - there are so-called TomTom add-ons such as POI Warner and GPS Assist. The products themselves are fine and probably work very well with Tom Tom outside the USA. The problem is that these tools expect to work with what are termed standard TomTom files - in the standard .OV2 format. Apparently, this file format is used to house interesting onformation - such as points of interest locations - that a user PAYS FOR when they buy TomTom USA with ethe maps and all. IF one has these files in the proper, OV2 format, then he or she can use these tools quite easily - in fact seamlessly - as advertised. Unfortunately, Tom Tom decided NOT to use this format with the US product so these addons are useless in the colonies.


Assuming Tom Tom does well in the US on the initial push, which I expect it will, there will soon be a very loud backlash roar from users such as myself who want to push the envelope but find that, fro some strange reason, the US customer is - apparently - artifically restricted as compared to his/her European cousins.

[bbehrens]

Regarding the TomTom BT size: 3.5 inches long by 1.75 inches wide by 0.75 inches high.

[bbehrens]

Forget Mobile Planet. I ordered 2x from them and cancelled both orders, replacing them at J&R which always had them in stock and would ship them overnight if requested.

[bbehrens]

No - TTN does NOT tell you "on the left" or "on the right" as others, such as Mapolis, do.