Tired designs for the PPC?

[ricktakagi]

I don't know if anyone else feels this way but I'm finding it harder and harder to get excited about any new PPC offerings....am I alone in thinking this? The new HP's might do something for me but I'm not sure yet.

I started thinking about this after following the Palm thread a short time ago. I get more excited now about what Palm has up it's sleeve than I do any PPC maker. Will the PPC follow the PC industry and think that form factor and style have no place in the market?

Sorry, had to vent for a minute......


Rick T.

[Jason Dunn]

I'm with ya there. :| The 1910 was a COOL design, and the most innovative thing we've seen yet, but it's still just an iPAQ...only smaller. Show me a device with a keyboard! Show me a device like the Sony with a folding screen! Show me something INTERESTING! :D

[dcharles18]

Change isn't always good though. I think if you would ask any former Casio owner they would jump at the chance to see a re-vamped EM-500.

[mscdex]

Change isn't always good though. I think if you would ask any former Casio owner they would jump at the chance to see a re-vamped EM-500.

I somewhat agree, I wish PPC manufacturers would bring back the E-1xx button placement style. It made playing games much easier, more fun, and it felt like a real gamepad.

But I do also agree with Rick. I used to be excited about PocketPCs, even months and months and months after I got my iPaq. But now it's just dull and I just use it to takes notes and whatever else. If only someone would come out with a PocketPC in a convertible clamshell-factor. Something like the rumoured HP 2200 (?) which has built in Stowaway XT-type keyboard, and can be used like an HPC, or folded back and be used as a regular PPC.

C'mon PPC mfr's! Do something innovative and creative! :)

[ricktakagi]

I would like to see a PPC come out with an acrylic casing in maybe white or clear and with a flip top cover...sound familiar? ;)

I'm surprised that a unit similar to the Sharp model with the drop down keyboard hasn't made it to market yet...is there really no market for such an item?

btw...I actually liked the look and feel of the old casio 500 model.


Rick

[Pony99CA]

Show me a device with a keyboard!
Your wish is my command. :-) Check out the Hitachi G1000 (http://www.hitachi.com/Apps/hitachicom/content.jsp?page=aboutus/Press-Media/PressReleases/details/Hitachi%20Unveils%20Its%20First%20Microsoft%20Pocket%20PC%20Phone%20Edition%20Handheld%20To%20Run%20on%20the%20Enhanced%20Sprint%20Nationwide%20PCS%20Network.html).

Steve

http://www.hitachi.com/siteimages/aboutus/Press-Media/PressReleases/details/PocketPCPhone.jpg

[Timothy Rapson]

I want an Axim with one CF slot, a camera taking up the space that the SD slot would take up, and a vga screen.

If it were the form of the new Zaurus C750, so much the better. I am not so concerned about size as long as it is no larger than a Casio 125 was.

But, where are the designs with 256 MB of flash built in? radio or TV tuners? customizable cases?


There have been a couple of innovations since PPC 2002. Most models now offer swappable batteries, trasflective screens, and dual slots. These are not very exciting changes though.

[Timothy Rapson]

[quote=Jason Dunn]Show me a device with a keyboard!
Your wish is my command. :-) Check out the Hitachi G1000 (http://www.hitachi.com/Apps/hitachicom/content.jsp?page=aboutus/Press-Media/PressReleases/details/Hitachi%20Unveils%20Its%20First%20Microsoft%20Pocket%20PC%20Phone%20Edition%20Handheld%20To%20Run%20on%20the%20Enhanced%20Sprint%20Nationwide%20PCS%20Network.html).

Steve


Yes, innovative, and so is the other new camera enabled phone model (Samsung?) but how much do these cost and when will they get here?

I love the clear cover on this Hitachi. Why can't everyone.........(add another boring chorus here!)

[Scott R]

I love the clear cover on this Hitachi. Why can't everyone.........(add another boring chorus here!)
The first time I saw a picture of this Hitachi, I thought it had a clear flip-lid on it too, but after seeing more close-up shots I'm pretty sure they just sculpted the top of the device differently. I don't think there's any flip-lid. If you know differently, please let me know. The Hitachi also looks to be quite large and that's after shrinking the screen down (I think it might be smaller than the current smallish 3.5" screens). What's more, after seeing some of those pictures close up, there doesn't seem to be any dedicated hard buttons for the applications, just the QWERTY keyboard. As if I haven't blasted it enough, I also suspect this thing will be very top-heavy and uncomfortable to hold while thumb-typing.

I like the idea of integrating a thumbboard into a PPC as well, but I don't think they can go about it the way Hitachi did, thanks to the PPC-standard rectangular screen format. To pull it off, someone will need to do something along the lines of the Sony NR/NX/NZ series or the new Sharp Zaurus devices.

Scott

[ricktakagi]

outside of a PPC having a built in keyboard, it's still a pretty boring design. I saw the new Hitachi and thought it was cool but not the "wow...I gotta have one of these", that's what I'm looking for.

I have a feeling the new clies will have something a bit different and I'm curious to see those when they come out.

[David Johnston]

I might be wrong, but don't MS have some say in the designs the various PPC manufacturers use? I believe I read somewhere that they keep tabs on new designs and that they must adhere to certain regulations - one of which is to keep a clear separation between the design and operation of PocketPC's and competing products (Palm).

That's why we don't have Palm-like PPCs or anything totally ridiculous (aside from WinCE-based devices)... MS don't permit it, don't encourage it, or just increase licensing costs to make sure they profit from a complete flop of a design.

Could be complete and utter nonsense, but it definetely sounds like Microsoft! In all honesty, I'd probably do the same thing...

[mscdex]

I might be wrong, but don't MS have some say in the designs the various PPC manufacturers use? I believe I read somewhere that they keep tabs on new designs and that they must adhere to certain regulations - one of which is to keep a clear separation between the design and operation of PocketPC's and competing products (Palm).

That's why we don't have Palm-like PPCs or anything totally ridiculous (aside from WinCE-based devices)... MS don't permit it, don't encourage it, or just increase licensing costs to make sure they profit from a complete flop of a design.

Could be complete and utter nonsense, but it definetely sounds like Microsoft! In all honesty, I'd probably do the same thing...

Yes they do have some say in what hardware they must have. But they do not say how the PPC has to look or have its hardware arranged in a certain way (buttons a certain way, etc.).

[David Johnston]

Yes they do have some say in what hardware they must have. But they do not say how the PPC has to look or have its hardware arranged in a certain way (buttons a certain way, etc.).

I can understand the hardware - obviously they now all need to use ARM processors, the standard buttons/stylus input method, infra-red and I'm guessing must provide some sort of expansion - anything else?

I would have thought though that they would definetely want to keep an eye on Palm <-> PocketPC convergence? If the next PocketPC from Dell looked was styled like a Clie, wouldn't/couldn't MS stop that? (As if Dell would do that anyway...)

If not, then I guess my dreams of a PocketPC powered toaster are just around the corner... until MS tell me all their PPC's must be 'pocketable'. Bah.

[mscdex]

Yes they do have some say in what hardware they must have. But they do not say how the PPC has to look or have its hardware arranged in a certain way (buttons a certain way, etc.).

I can understand the hardware - obviously they now all need to use ARM processors, the standard buttons/stylus input method, infra-red and I'm guessing must provide some sort of expansion - anything else?

I would have thought though that they would definetely want to keep an eye on Palm <-> PocketPC convergence? If the next PocketPC from Dell looked was styled like a Clie, wouldn't/couldn't MS stop that? (As if Dell would do that anyway...)

If not, then I guess my dreams of a PocketPC powered toaster are just around the corner... until MS tell me all their PPC's must be 'pocketable'. Bah.

Well, if that's what PPC manufacturers have to do to get people's attention more, then so be it. Perhaps PPC makers need to look at what Sony is doing with the Clie, and to make something neat looking and exciting again.

[ricktakagi]

I agree with you mscdex....I think it's fun everytime Sony comes out with a new design, it might not be safe but at least it keeps things interesting.

I think I regret buying a Dell simply due to the size which has made it something I leave at home more often than not. I will probably get a new Ipaq 1940-45 when they come out but I'm sure I'll still be tempted by whatever new offering the Palm and Sony camp have next.

Rick T.

[Kiyoshi]

I noticed this Palm-PocketPC difference when I was over at my local MicroStar. When I was thinking of buying a PDA, I initially wanted to get a Zire 71, with its camera and MP3 playback, but I opted for an e740 for the same price (but I got ripped off in the eBay deal but everything worked out). Now, when I went to MicroStar, I checked out the screen on the Zire and the e740, and it DOESNT EVEN COMPETE. I thought the screen was just a paper sticker on the non-working unit!

Anyways, I like the CLIE's too, they always keep me saying "wow, that's cool". I don't like the clamshell's though, they seem to be a tad big (but what is it compared to the PocketPC's?) The NZ's are gigantic!!! But I must admit that I would love an integrated 2MP Digicam.

[spursdude]

Now, when I went to MicroStar, I checked out the screen on the Zire and the e740, and it DOESNT EVEN COMPETE. I thought the screen was just a paper sticker on the non-working unit!
Well the Zire has that transflective high-res screen. Newer Pocket PCs (like the e750, one level up from your e740) have the transflective part down.... hopefully the high-res part will come next.

[Kiyoshi]

We already have hi-res screens, just manufacturer's have been to lazy to improve the resolution. The Palms have gone from 160x160 to 320x320, while we have been stuck at 240x320. If we could get it doubled, we'd have a nice 480x640 (woah, that's 640x480 but the other way!)

Only problem is that getting a resolution too high might make the things on screen be too small, so PDA's will end up needing bigger screens, making them cost more than they already do!!!

[spursdude]

I guess I should have said highER-res screen. :D

[alcdroid]

Now, when I went to MicroStar, I checked out the screen on the Zire and the e740, and it DOESNT EVEN COMPETE. I thought the screen was just a paper sticker on the non-working unit!


A-HA! That's exactly what has been bugging me about the Palm screens. Whenever I look at the Hi-Res Palm devices, the screens look excellent, but it just did not seem.....right to me, and now I know why. It just did not look like a computer screen to me, but more like a toy. The Zire 71 itself looks kinda ugly and I can't imagine carrying that around with me all the time.

I like the current designs for PocketPCs. I thought that the H1910 was really neat and would be my next PDA, but I ended up with the Axim instead. It performed great and still portable enough to fit my shirt pocket on occassion.

Still, I wish that Sony had gone with PocketPCs instead of PalmOS. The CLIE designs are really nice....I really liked the original S300/500 and T-Series devices. I would never get a NR/NX/NZ type device though, simply because I don't trust to many moving parts on electronics I use everyday.

Cheers!

[TawnerX]

I think somebody need some retrospective view on what has happen.

This is what PDA looks like in '98!
http://www.to-tech.com/windowsce/jornada/420/420-lid.jpg

http://www.to-tech.com/windowsce/jornada/420/

This is what PDA looks like in '03
http://www.pdafrance.com/img/testproduit_pocketpc/h1910/dscn1859.jpg
http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?cat=machinesppc&id=242&p=2&PHPSESSID=c187564938b1d56c76a197b3008c082c


but of course this will be the approximate look of what PDA will become.
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2003/05/20/a17s.jpg

[Scott R]

I think somebody need some retrospective view on what has happen.
...
This is what PDA looks like in '98!
...
This is what PDA looks like in '03
...Isn't that top model a ruggedized PDA? If so, that isn't really a fair comparison. The Axim probably isn't much thinner than non-ruggedized CE models back then. Plus, in its favor, that ruggedized model had a flip-lid.

Scott

[Jason Dunn]

Isn't that top model a ruggedized PDA?

Nope, it's a Jornada 430SE I think - or is that a 420? Anyway, it was just a normal Pocket PC...

[Steven Cedrone]

Anyway, it was just a normal Pocket PC...

You mean Palm-size PC, don't you??? :wink: :wink: :wink:

Steve

[Prevost]

I'm with ya there. :| The 1910 was a COOL design, and the most innovative thing we've seen yet, but it's still just an iPAQ...only smaller. Show me a device with a keyboard! Show me a device like the Sony with a folding screen! Show me something INTERESTING! :D
Although I am a Palm user, let me say that now when I want to upgrade I am NOT excited with PalmOS offerings.

I have read enough times about wanting something "interesting" But for someone like me who needs functionality and portability, a device like the Sony with a folding screen is NOT interesting at all, but just a freaking brick.

Humbly I think that the basic design both on Palm and on PocketPC is what it should be in order to mantain portability and providing real usability. Everything else only add bulk like Sony's folding screen, and thumb keyboards.

By the way, if only I could feel confident I wont need to reset frequently and that I am not going to lose info when sync, I would go for the iPAQ 2215. Know why? Not for its innovative design, but for its features, size and ergonomics!

Dont think of PDAs as status symbols or entertainment centers, but as a real working tool.

[Prevost]

By the way, I think Sony is always making display of what they can achieve technologically, bringing up "innovations". Many times they just are left behind, like MiniDisc, or today Memory Stick that is falling way behind Secure Digital. In other cases, they are simply gimmicks good only for status symbols (folding screen PDAS)

[Jacob]

I guess the only thing I see in a rotating screen is the "neat" factor and that really wears off after a while and seems to me to be just a moving part that will wear out and break.

I don't care if all the PPCs are designed as they are - just make them more and more useful - if that means changing the design then okay.

[Prevost]

I guess the only thing I see in a rotating screen is the "neat" factor and that really wears off after a while and seems to me to be just a moving part that will wear out and break.

I don't care if all the PPCs are designed as they are - just make them more and more useful - if that means changing the design then okay.
Absolutely agree!!!

Someone else said here it was interesting what Sony is making with Clies. Come on, what is Sony doing? They dont even have USABLE hard keys! Not even in the LAAARGE NX series devices! If you fold the screen, its TINY hard keys and keyboard are covered completely! Is that sound, usable, practical design?

Concerning Palm, the first device with a 5 way navigator appeared less than a year ago...something borrowed from PocketPC arena. Now they have a joystick in the Zire 71 that needs from you to purchase 3rd party software just to avoid it to turn the thing on when you case it. Good design? No way.

And concerning cameras, mmm, well, if as neat as Zire 71 and at least 1.3MB with zoom, they could be good working tools...before that, only another showy display of what they supposedly can do...before PocketPC.

And all those are thougths of a Palm user.

[jnunn]

My thought is that the current set of PPCs are take offs of the 2000 iPAQ 3600 which set the standard for screen, smaller size (without sleeve), fast operation, 'large' memory, and cool form factor. I also tend to think that the stage is set for another PPC milestone in 2004 where a 480x640 (or greater) screen will hopefully be the focus. I use Excel often (and outline structures in Word) and could certainly use the real estate.

My dream device would be a two expansion slot device with a 480x640 screen with a form factor and screen quality of the 1940. The essence is to minimize extra PPC bulk that is not screen: maximize screen, minimize form factor. Two SDIO slots might fit in the 1940 since they could be coplanar, unlike the 2215 CF and SDIO. I am holding off buying anything in the CF form factor since I believe they may be obsolete in a rather short time due to the upcoming ubiquity of SDIO.

Folding devices are 'cool' but they loose their appeal to me when I would need to fit them in my pocket: always go thin. The only sort of folding device that makes sense to me is where there would not be a redundancy of casing; i.e. the battery is self contained and it could serve as a fold-away screen shield since it would not add bulk via extra case. I have never had an issue with my bare screen in my pocket, however; I always face the screen towards my body and put nothing else in the pocket that could scratch.

[Stephen Beesley]

I like the idea of integrating a thumbboard into a PPC as well, but I don't think they can go about it the way Hitachi did, thanks to the PPC-standard rectangular screen format. To pull it off, someone will need to do something along the lines of the Sony NR/NX/NZ series or the new Sharp Zaurus devices.

Scott

The add on keyboard cover for the Jornada was a great idea in my books - it meant that you only had the extra bulk of the keyboard etc when you needed it and yet it was a perfect fit for the rest of the device.

http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/Jornada/pocket%20keyboard/keyboard2.jpg http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/Jornada/pocket%20keyboard/keyboard.jpg

That is the sort of innovative design I would like to see more of - Come on HP what happened!

Goldtee

[Autarch]

Nice pics, Goldtee! I'd like to see a similar thumbboard and flip cover for the iPAQ 2210.

[JonnoB]

The first time I saw a picture of this Hitachi, I thought it had a clear flip-lid on it too, but after seeing more close-up shots I'm pretty sure they just sculpted the top of the device differently. I don't think there's any flip-lid. If you know differently, please let me know.

It does have a flip lid... but it is also a VERY large device, at least by todays standards. For a phone, it is just too big.

[GoldKey]

I see a great contest op here. Draw the PPC of your dreams. I've been thinking about a device with no buttons on the front (allowing either a bigger screen or a smaller device), a directional joystick like device where the jog dial usually is to use with your thumb and your four buttons positioned where each finger would be on the right side. It might take a little work to get the ergonomics just right, but theoretically you could use this device completely with one hand except for anything that involved the stylus. Then a really funky text entry program that mapped the buttons to work similarly to the way the machine a court reporter uses.

[kuyars]

I think it's foolish for people to regard things like Sony's innovation as useless. As in any industry, especially one such as this, I believe innovation is good, no matter where and how it's brought up. Innovation like those in Clie's might spawn new designs and features that people would never have thought about.

In a sense, I compare the PPC and Palm situation similar to that of PCs and Macs. PCs have long since been the same old beige boxes with very little innovation and the only difference lay in what specs it has. The imacs come along and begin to introduce the idea of design. A lot of diehard PC users might say, who cares about how it looks like, as long as it can run X program. But I think the imacs provide a design that supplements its main functions. I could also compare this to the PC desktops in Japan, where they have long since incorporated functional design into their desktops since space is a premium in Japan. These design changes make the PC more space friendly and give them multiple uses, apart from being a simple dekstop.

So just like competition in a marketplace, I think innovation in any form should be welcomed. For every person that says "oh it sucks, I would never need that," there will be another who it fits perfectly.

[Prevost]

Well, innovation is welcome IF it is making things better.

Those "innovative designs" from Sony, in my opinion, are not making PDAs better and again, I am a PALM user and those designs are not making me proud of the platform.

Obviously, opinions rely on what someone considers is important in a PDA, To me, it is a tool (Civil Engineering). Sony NX are not good as a tool in this field, no matter how innovative they could look.

And coming back to that design, if innovation is leaving apart usability, then what kind of innovation it is? If you have standard hard keys you just cannot press and no way in having a 5 way navigator, does it makes sense? In fact, is it progress, or regression?


Innovation like those in Clie's might spawn new designs and features that people would never have thought about.
Probably they should select better which new designs they are setting up so that they come with innovation that is REALLY good and functional. Come on! they are only showing what THEY can do! Sadly, many get lured by this.

[kuyars]

Yes, I understand your point, and I am not trying to say that every new Clie that comes out is perfect or is a shining example of innovation.

However, surely you must agree that, to some, the current designs complement their lifestyles perfectly. Simply because you find that it does not fit your needs in the field for civil engineering, it does not mean that it is likewise useless for all other people in all other careers. That is simply too much of a generalization. However, I believe that you understand this, since you pointed out that for your needs, it doesn't work. Just keep in mind that it may work for others.

Sure, some designs may crash and burn, but that's all part of the learning process. Only the truly great designs will live on and be incorporated into future pdas -- much in the same way that selective evolution works. If nobody dared to try something different, we'd all be stuck with vanilla pdas -- as is the case with current PPCs.

In any case, I am just open to new ideas in any form. Even if showing what CAN be done in a pda may spur other manufacturers to try to push the envelope beyond what is expected.

[Stephen Beesley]

Nice pics, Goldtee! I'd like to see a similar thumbboard and flip cover for the iPAQ 2210.

If the iPaq 2210 got something like this it would pretty much garantee it as my next PDA. I have been pretty excited about the Sharp SL 5600 linux PDA, but have invested a lot on PPC apps. The Toshiba e750 is also very tempting but...

A good comparision between the Jornada keyboard accessory and what is available for current iPaqs can be seen in this photo from the PocketPCPassion review of the Jornada keyboard (the source of the other photos I posted as well!)


http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/Jornada/pocket%20keyboard/keyboard8.jpg

The Jornada example is much more integrated. Surely they could come up with something similiar for the Ipaq....

Goldtee

[Janak Parekh]

The Jornada example is much more integrated. Surely they could come up with something similiar for the Ipaq....
They have.

http://h20022.www2.hp.com/product_graphics/L312391_001.jpg

Still not as perfect as the Jornada one, but not terrible either.

--janak

[Prevost]

The Jornada example is much more integrated. Surely they could come up with something similiar for the Ipaq....
They have.

http://h20022.www2.hp.com/product_graphics/L312391_001.jpg

Still not as perfect as the Jornada one, but not terrible either.

--janak
What is this? The iPAQ 4xxx series?
No, sorry, it is not. Anyway 4xxx series perhaps is to look similar. In cnet there is a video where that upcoming handheld from hp is featured, just cannot make it run...
I see a great contest op here. Draw the PPC of your dreams. I've been thinking about a device with no buttons on the front (allowing either a bigger screen or a smaller device), a directional joystick like device where the jog dial usually is to use with your thumb and your four buttons positioned where each finger would be on the right side. It might take a little work to get the ergonomics just right, but theoretically you could use this device completely with one hand except for anything that involved the stylus. Then a really funky text entry program that mapped the buttons to work similarly to the way the machine a court reporter uses.
Know what I think could be good?
To have a hard volume and brightness control in the side in the form of a wheel like some handhelds have. That could make easier to make adjusts without havin to use the stylus and go thru some menus.
At least for now! :idea:

[GoldKey]

Check out this article (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Sony_Announcing_Wireless_Handheld_on_Friday) on Brighthand about the new Clie. That is the design/size I want for a PDA. Bump the resolution up to 640x480 and it is a total winner.

[Stephen Beesley]

Check out this article (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Sony_Announcing_Wireless_Handheld_on_Friday) on Brighthand about the new Clie. That is the design/size I want for a PDA. Bump the resolution up to 640x480 and it is a total winner.

Damn - first the temptation of the Sharp SL 5600 (http://www.bargainpda.com/reviews/sharp_zaurus_sl_5600.html and now this!

What is a PDA lover to do: hope that the PPC OEMs get their collective acts together or jump ship entirely!

Goldtee

[Bruno Figueiredo]

Check this out:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15152

[GoldKey]

Check this out:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15152

Just looks like an Ipod. What I am talking that I want is something more like a tiny laptop.

[GoldKey]

Goldtee,

The sharp is OK, but what I really like is the landscape and fuller keyboard. It would be nice if the keyboard folds all the way back and if it allows both portrait and landscape depending on what you are doing.

[droppedd]

Goldtee,

The sharp is OK, but what I really like is the landscape and fuller keyboard. It would be nice if the keyboard folds all the way back and if it allows both portrait and landscape depending on what you are doing.

ew.. 3.2" screen in the Clie. Yuck. What a waste - there's a huge bezel all around it.

Anyways, goldkey, why not just get one of the new Zauri (is that the plural of Zaurus? "Zauruses" sounds kinda dumb...) - aren't they landscape with fold-back keyboard?. Of course closed-source devotees are unlikely to hack together a Windows distro for the zaurus the way the opensource zealots keep making Linux for iPaqs :).

[GoldKey]

I agree the screen is a bit small, but a step in the right direction. I want a device like this with Windows mobile on it.

[Ratel10mm]

I think somebody need some retrospective view on what has happen.

This is what PDA looks like in '98!
http://www.to-tech.com/windowsce/jornada/420/420-lid.jpg

http://www.to-tech.com/windowsce/jornada/420/

This is what PDA looks like in '03
http://www.pdafrance.com/img/testproduit_pocketpc/h1910/dscn1859.jpg
http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?cat=machinesppc&id=242&p=2&PHPSESSID=c187564938b1d56c76a197b3008c082c


but of course this will be the approximate look of what PDA will become.
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2003/05/20/a17s.jpg

That's actually a H.P. Jornada 430.
I have one of these, and it is still my main PPC / palmtop / whatever.
It's amazingly stable, having needed only one soft reset since I was given it, and copes with most things, albeit often at a snails' pace! It isn't hardened at all - this really is what the cutting edge loocked like back then.
I'm looking to upgrade to a PPC2003 unit, but am having a lot of trouble deciding which one (like most of us, it would appear :? ). However, I'll keep the 430 as a backup.
I just wish the OQO wasn't vapourware!

[Prevost]

Just looks like an Ipod. What I am talking that I want is something more like a tiny laptop.Well, I think that were what Handheld PCs were. However that format died a natural death for lacking customer support as far as I know.

Again, the new Sony shows no innovation to me. And no usability unless you are well seated and better if in front of a desk.

BTW, why is it that everytime I go to Brighthand I all starts fine but before the page downloads completely it turns to an empty screen?

[GoldKey]

I don't think HPC's failed on the form factor. I think it was mostly price and OS capabilities at the time. I think if a vendor took the risk on a windows based solution in this form factor, they would have a winner.

[Prevost]

I don't think HPC's failed on the form factor. I think it was mostly price and OS capabilities at the time. I think if a vendor took the risk on a windows based solution in this form factor, they would have a winner.Probably. It depends in each one needs.

For me, something you need to be seated to use is of no use. That's what "mobility" ultimately stands for. For example, for CAD use, any two piece handheld is cumbersome. And no easy way to write using the keyboard comfortably if you are not seated.

Perhaps I am just a consumer and too centered around usability and not in technical side of it.

[GoldKey]

Actually, I think I could use the keyboard without being seated. Hold the unit like a Game Boy Advance SP, and use your thumbs.

[Prevost]

I would need to hold it in order to check how usable that keyboard is. I read the device is about 4" wide, so keys cannot be so large but they look larger than other in board keyboards.

Camera is a gimmick - I read also is is 0.3MP.

[Stephen Beesley]

For me it is all about options. If the keyboard folds back so that you can use the screen as a usual portrait orientated PDA when needed then that would be just fine by me. The keyboard would then be there for when you did have access to a flat surface (although i think the thumb typing idea might work).

Of course I want to cover all the bases so I would still want a driver for the Pocketop IR keyboard (or something like it - bluetooth anyone...) available for those times when you want to do some serious data entry.

Goldtee

[Prevost]

What I would like is to have (both Palm and Pocket PC) more customizable hard keys to shortcut functions and program access.

In the thread of the Palm Tungsten T3 it is seen that the standard button scheme leaves enough space so as to fit some more keys there.

In fact, this could even be a way for Pocket PC to meet the ease of use factor Palm are known for...unless it could make Pocket PC lose its identity.

And don't say that's 0X , :drinking: , :jester: , or :pukeface2: to have soooo much buttons. Aren't some of you asking for integrated keyboards? :mrgreen:

[TawnerX]

Ultimate PPC for this christmas? I am not asking much.

Put a VGA screen onto Mio 559. I don't even ask for keyboard, since there are plenty of fabric, univeral keyboard, folding or what not...

multi MP built in camera with flash is nice, but not on top of my list.

[David Prahl]

What I'd like to see is a "silhouette" picture of all of the most recent/popular PDAs (including Palms).

Wouldn't it be fun to try and tell the "Zire 71" silhouette from the HP 1940 silhouette? :D

Anyone had experience with mugshots? Being behind the camera, that is! :mrgreen:

[xoiph]

I just wish the OQO wasn't vapourware!

I know what you mean, just imagine...
http://www.pocketpclouisville.com/images/oqo.jpg
Where is that drool icon?!

[spursdude]

Where is that drool icon?!
Probably got smashed by that BRICK!

[Janak Parekh]

Where is that drool icon?!
Probably got smashed by that BRICK!
:lol: I was thinking the exact same thing.

--janak

[Prevost]

Where is that drool icon?!
Probably got smashed by that BRICK! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Jerry Raia]

What is that thing?

[Shadowcat]

A brick! :lol: Actually, it's the OQO, or at least a mimick of it. It's suppoed to be a PDA sized machine running a full-fledged Windows XP, I believe.

[Jerry Raia]

I guess it never came to be. Are there still rumors that its on the way?