Does Palm Understand Its Predicament?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9637">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9637</a><br /><br />Palm seems to have tied itself very closely with Microsoft Office, even Outlook. Does Palm understand how this could cause major problems for itself in the future? This is an interesting article that brings up a few things I hadn't considered before. I am not sure I agree with all of it, but some of it rings true to me.<br /><br />"Palm bundles the Tungsten with a supposedly huge value in bundled software. As with any piece of hardware, most is garbage, with the occasional useful gem thrown in. One gem seemed to be VersaMail. I was actually looking forward to being able to download my address book to the Palm, and take it with me. Productivity on the road would go up, new contacts would go in automatically, and life would be a small bit better. I quickly loaded it up."<br /><br />Of course, the experience is less than ideal. In fact, it is downright frustrating, including having to deal with a tech support department that saw the word "VersaMail" and replied back with a canned response - an occurrence all too common with many tech support departments. :(<br /><br />"Unfortunately Palm either has corporate blinders on, or doesn't get the big picture. Microsoft does, and you can bet it is laughing all the way to the bank. While Palm may make the best hardware out there, without a radical change in software, my next purchase will be an iPaq."

[scottmag]

The title of the linked article is "Why Palm is doomed." I'll save you the trouble of reading it ... in the author's own words, "The short summary is that I can't figure out how to sync my Netscape address book to my palm pilot." Palm's technical support gives him the brush-off because "the official line is that I was using a 3rd party application, and they do not support 3rd party applications." Because of this Palm is "doomed"? Not a very insightful rant.

I guess there could be an interesting angle to examine in how Palm relies on and interacts with application vendors vs. how Microsoft does. But, Palm "is doomed" and Microsoft is "laughing all the way to the bank"? I don't see it.

Scott

[Jason Dunn]

That article was a little silly. Palm is just doing what a smart business does - makes things easy for the majority of the users that are using a product, and if they majority are using Outlook, that's what they aim for. The Pocket PC team and Outlook team might both work at Microsoft, but they have different business goals, and both are about making money. I'm sure the Outlook guys have no grudge against Palm, and the odds of them screwing Palm out of syncing with Outlook are slim to none IMO.

Although I might get a chuckle if that happened. :lol:

[bdegroodt]

This must be the Friday funny. Thanks Ed!

Doomed? Because they benchmark their sync against Outlook? Come on. What's a software vendor to do? The truth is Outlook/Outlook Express are pretty much the defacto standard emai/PIM applications for most desktops. I could just see the triple digit declines in sales if Palm decided it was only going to sync with OpenOffice or Lotus.

Funny how so many years of support for Outlook has just ruined Palm.

BTW, another good reason for why all these vendors should embrace SyncML.

[Belzebutt]

Whenever I visit Pocket PC Thoughts, I'm always looking forward to reading the latest anti-Palm rant. The author's obsession with bashing Palm at every opportunity is quite amusing to me.

I recently made the jump myself from a Handspring Visor to an e755, but for some reason I am still able to see that Palm has some advantages and I certainly wouldn't recommend a PocketPC to everyone.

Whatever this article claims, I've had fewer problems syncing my Visor than my Pocket PC, and both do things like truncating messages and using plain text instead of RTF.

[bdeli]

This guy must do some reserch before he writes anything out -

"The latest Palm, the Tungsten-T is the finest example of the breed I have ever used"

Palm's latest two models are the Tungsten | C and the Zire 71. The Tungsten | T has been out from last yr!

As for Outlook - why not. Most people use Outlook and Express for the mail clients, and as Jason said - they are doing smart business.

And Versamail 2.5 works like a charm on my Tungsten | T - much better than Pocket Outlook on my iPAQ.

[Janak Parekh]

BTW, another good reason for why all these vendors should embrace SyncML.
Yes. This is the one lesson to take out of this. We really need a sync standard.

As for this article, it's The Inquirer.... what were you expecting? :lol:

--janak

[Ed Hansberry]

Whenever I visit Pocket PC Thoughts, I'm always looking forward to reading the latest anti-Palm rant. The author's obsession with bashing Palm at every opportunity is quite amusing to me
This wasn't an anti-palm rant. I don't agree with everthing in it, as I stated earlier. It is a bit interesting though how closely Palm has aligned itself with MS. I would think Palm would at least be making some effort to sync with popular non-MS products or better yet, work with some of these non-MS companies and produce great third party apps for the Palm platform. It would really be a blow in some markets if Palm came out with a full blown "PalmSuite" that sync'd with StarOffice, from email to presentations and did it in such a way as to not worry about desktop licensing at all. There is a lot of speculation that the reason MS doesn't do better Pocket Office apps is they don't want to encroach on their Office cash cow. I am not sure I see the validity in that argument given the low level current Pocket Office apps perform at. Perhaps if they were a few hundred percent better it would be something in the back of MS's mind on how many future enhancements to provide.

Palm, on the otherhand, could care less about a similar encroachment on desktop revenue. StarOffice is not a cash cow for anyone, yet if you had the #1 PDA manufacturer distributing StarOffice apps and sync tools for the PalmOS and one of the largest Unix/Linux distributers touting PalmOS synchronization in the OS and office suite, that would be something that could really begin to put a dent in Office sales.

As it is, Palm has blinders on. It is a catch up game for them. There is no vision. Say what you want about MS. They have a vision. Sometimes they get smacked for it (Hailstorm for example) or it languishes (Passport seems to have been relegated to a mostly site authentication tool) and other times it hits a home run (Office, Windows).

As for the title of the article, yeah, I thought it was a bit sensationalist. That was why I didn't even bother mentioning it.

[felixdd]

This guy must do some reserch before he writes anything out -

"The latest Palm, the Tungsten-T is the finest example of the breed I have ever used"

Palm's latest two models are the Tungsten | C and the Zire 71. The Tungsten | T has been out from last yr!



Sometimes it takes a while for an article to work its way through the gears and be published. Maybe when he wrote the article it was before the onslaught of new POS devices.

He's requesting for something that should be achieved, but is probably impossible to do so. Support every possible PIM client out there? That's impossible -- someone's always going to be left in the dust.

But I feel for him though -- incompatibilities and missing features can really ruin one's day.

[Scott R]

I can understand why it took Palm's support team so long to figure out what he was trying to do. I had to re-read part of his article a few times to figure it out myself. He wanted to use VersaMail (a mail app) to sync his address book? Do I have that right?

Let me see if I've got his closing point right, also. His conclusion was that because of this problem his next PDA would be an iPaq. Which is built upon an OS known for syncing with things other than Microsoft products? Since when?

Ridiculous.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no expert on this since I, like most PDA users, sync with Microsoft Outlook), but aren't there several more options for the Palm OS than there are for the PPC OS when it comes to syncing with non-Microsoft PIM apps? I think Lotus Notes is one. Plus Palm has its own PIM desktop app which I believe there's a version of which runs on the Mac OS, right?

I'm sure that Palm would like nothing more than to not support Microsoft products, but unless the world has changed since the last time I checked Microsoft had a desktop monopoly. Microsoft has the money (but not the will) to offer support for all sorts of 3rd party PIM apps, but Palm certainly doesn't have the money for it. They need to devote their resources to other things. Is this a risk they're taking? Sure, but they don't really have much choice. All they can do is hope that Microsoft's Outlook team doesn't "accidently" break anything.

Scott

[JvanEkris]

IMHO, there are a lot of valid arguments i can think of why Palm would be doomed: no serious profits the last years, apperently a bad helpdesk, antique concept, even perhaps the "school-agenda" image.

But being doomed because of the outlook orientation of sync-software is stretching the limit a bit far IMHO. Activesync does no other thing. It has created a very living competion of third-party suppliers that do provide a solution to this problem. That's not being doomed, that's being economical and making sense of your core competences (and building sync-software is probably not one of them).

Jaap

[Scott R]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no expert on this since I, like most PDA users, sync with Microsoft Outlook), but aren't there several more options for the Palm OS than there are for the PPC OS when it comes to syncing with non-Microsoft PIM apps? I think Lotus Notes is one.I just noticed on the home page here the new product which allows PPCs to sync to Lotus Notes, so there you go. But my point is still valid. If this guy is switching to an iPaq thinking he's getting an OS which syncs to more 3rd party PIM apps than the Palm OS does, he's in for a surprise.

Scott

[Jonathan1]

:soapbox:

Wow this ranks up there with that Competitive Analysis Report from Palm. Good bum wiping material. The guy is basically whining because Palm, out of the box, doesn’t support his e-mail client or more specifically that it supports MS but not anything else....oooo this is new the theinquirer bitching about MS through another company. :roll: Inventive.
Tell me how this is different then any previous Palm iterations? Palm out of the box has supported one and only one mail client. MS Outlook. And can you blame them? Lookout and Lookout Express, last I heard, was the most used mail client around. Why not support it? Palm has no obligations to support anything other then Palm desktop. Heck they are doing people a favor by providing this additional sync software and what that Chaz do? Throw it in their face.

Chaz needs to take his pissing and moaning somewhere else…wait theinquirer is a MS bashing site. Never mind it’s in the perfect place. :razzing:

Oh and the icing on the cake? He may have been doing it tongue and cheek but he comments that he’s getting an iPaq. *slaps forehead* WTH?!?! The iPaq doesn’t sync out of the box with Netscape 7 either!!!
:twak:
Now I have to wonder if any Linux PDA does either? Last I checked the Zaurus didn't. I guess Charles will have to go back to pen and paper…hmmm that doesn’t sync with Netscape 7 either. Yah…were doomed! :clap:

[Foo Fighter]

Frankly, I'm getting tired of these "Palm is doomed" editorials. :roll: Most, like this one, are based on rather trivial arguments. The only thing that could conceivably doom Palm is the economy, and poor business strategy. :|

[TawnerX]

... and palm units can't even play 'Doom' yet...

now THAT's doomed.
(okay not very funny, but i tried) :mrgreen:

[doogald]

While Palm may make the best hardware out there, without a radical change in software, my next purchase will be an iPaq."

I'm imagining that there will be a follow-up when he realizes that his newly-purchased iPAQ doesn't sync with Netscape Mail's address book either.

[scottmag]

I'm sure the Outlook guys have no grudge against Palm, and the odds of them screwing Palm out of syncing with Outlook are slim to none IMO.

I actually find myself in complete agreement with Jason on something. :D

8O

Scott

[Saaby]

Apple (Macintosh) has been doomed since 1986 or so ;)

[Will T Smith]

I think the author kinda misses the whole point.

I think it's great that he chooses Netscape when the rest of the world has virtually abandoned it. BUT, thats the point is that Palm is trying to appeal to a VERY wide audience.

Palm anchoring itself to Netscape would cause far more problems than it's worth. This guy can just as well invest in a different syncing product or move his contacts to something that is compatible with the Microsoft Contact Base (which ISN'T outlook).

If this guy was as big of a rebel as he makes out (by using Netscape), well, he'd be using a Mac and their STANDARD calendaring software.

Palm's biggest problems was really their "head in the sand" attitude to technology and it's business model. I think they've fixed those problems. Their alliance with Sony have produced the most advanced palmtops available (The high end Clies kick EVERYBODIES butt!!!!!)

Palm still owns the Lion's share of the handheld market. They have done MUCH BETTER than PocketPC in phone integration. They have a MUCH LARGER enterprise presence.

Microsoft still has an uphill battle to crush Palm the way they crushed Netscape. Though, with Sony on Palms side, I don't think it will be a much tougher battle than with Netscape. Sony has a retail presence all over the world that makes it the KING of consumer electronics.

Microsoft needs to enable PocketPC devices up to 640x480 sometime this year. Call them PocketPC-HD if you have to (though abandoning the low end market would be a mistake). All indications are that it WON'T happen in July. I believe the lack of High-Res screen will kill PocketPCs technology edge and swing momentum back to PalmSoft and Sony.

Handhelds are still an emerging market. Their are loads of new consumers out their who haven't yet discovered the utility of a palmtop computer (the truly PERSONAL computer). The one who can garner the MOST NEW USERS(not use uber-geeks) will likely gain the upper hand.

[roberto_torres]

While Palm may make the best hardware out there, without a radical change in software, my next purchase will be an iPaq."

I'm imagining that there will be a follow-up when he realizes that his newly-purchased iPAQ doesn't sync with Netscape Mail's address book either.


Maybe then he will write an article saying PDAs are doomed altogether because they don't sync whith Netscape.

[JvanEkris]

Maybe then he will write an article saying PDAs are doomed altogether because they don't sync whith Netscape.Apperently, the autor thinks he is the centre of the universe or something. Does ANYBODY use Netscape for this???

Jaap

[drac]

I think that the article has a valid point, that has been clouded by near-obscene exaggeration.

I agree that it would be a good idea for Palm to prominently support a non-Microsoft mail solution other than Eudora. (My experience of Palm-Eudora mail synchronisation via cradle was entirely positive).

I would further note that Mozilla and OpenOffice stand out as a good candidates for support. (I'm not so sure about obsolete Netscape versions, though!)

However, support for these "alternate" applications/ suites should not interfere with support for the applications used by the vast majority of PalmOS users; and claiming that Palm is "doomed" for not supporting Netscape is an exaggerated claim with no substantiation whatsoever.

It is easy to point out the lack of Netscape support as a failing of Palm, but far more difficult to support the idea that such a failing will lead inexorably to Palm's doom.

[wirelessgeek]

BTW, another good reason for why all these vendors should embrace SyncML.

Call Microsoft and ask them what they think about SynML? LOL. They are holding the technology back for years imho. Could it have something to do with ActiveSync? ;o) The "we are looking into it" attitude of MS is childish and business at the same time imho. That i can not find much interesting info on MS and SyncML tells us something.....but i did found this....

SyncML now part of OMA: "The Open Mobile Alliance (OMA) is poised to become a wireless-to-enterprise "Super Alliance," bringing together some 200 vendors from the enterprise and mobile industries, including Nokia, Ericsson, IBM, Sun, Motorola and now Microsoft. SyncML is now a part of OMA. SyncML's joining of OMA highlights the growing convergence between the cellphone and enterprise communities over common development frameworks, protocols and state management. A number of mobile/wireless standards groups, aside from SyncML, each with their own focus, have agreed to come in under the OMA tent -- including Mixed Media Messaging Interoperability Group, and Wireless Village."
http://www.integrationdevelopernews.com/IntegrationNews.asp?ID=16

SyncML is a key element of OMA [Open Mobile Alliance], of which Microsoft is a founding member: "Oracle Corp. has become much more hands-on with SyncML's work. And, when SyncML joins the OMA, the group will be in direct collaboration with execs from Microsoft's mobile business and technology units."
http://www.oetrends.com/cgi-bin/page_display.cgi?127

Microsoft backs cell phone standards
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2870660,00.html

SyncML: Synchronizing and Managing Your Mobile Data
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F4BE322B4

When you check the www.syncml.org site you will find this: "This site is now hosted by the Open Mobile Alliance. Please click here to access this page in its new location."
http://www.openmobilealliance.org/syncml/

The SyncML specification was designed with two primary goals in mind:

-Synchronize networked data with any mobile device
-Synchronize a mobile device with any networked data

To accomplish these goals, SyncML was designed as a platform, network, and application-agnostic protocol, allowing for "any-to-any" synchronization and, thereby, access to more types of data. SyncML is based on XML, so it works especially well handling cases in which network services and devices each store the data being synchronized in different formats, and which use different software systems. SyncML benefits can best be summarized by their six major advantages:

(excerpt)

-Effectiveness over wireless and wireline networks
SyncML works over all networks used by mobile devices, both wireless and wireline. Wireless networks in particular present specific challenges, such as high network latency, limited bandwidth, relatively high packet costs, and low reliability of both data and connectivity. SyncML addresses each of these issues through features like a single request-response message model and use of WAP Binary XML (WBXML).

-Support of multiple transport protocols and media
SyncML supports different transport protocols such as HTTP, WSP (Wireless Session Protocol), OBEX (Bluetooth, IrDA), SMTP, pure TCP/IP networks, and proprietary communication protocols.

more
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/wireless/library/wi-syncml/

On March 07, 2003 Microsoft said: "SyncML is one [possible standard] we're still looking at,” says Edward Wu, Microsoft’s technical product manager for Exchange. Although SyncML can allow you to interface with Microsoft Exchange, an additional front-end server is required to translate SyncML to Microsoft’s proprietary APIs. “We [aren’t] 100 percent sure we want to go in [SyncML’s] direction," Wu says. "Do we have the tech resources to do it? We would have to rewrite all the code that we've already done.” Microsoft is planning, however, to bundle mobile messaging access and synch software directly into the next release of Exchange Server, which will work with Pocket PC and Pocket Outlook products."
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/03/07/10messagingtci_1.html

On Oct 01, 2001 Microsoft found: -- "Microsoft seems to have finally come off the fence as far as potential support for SyncML is concerned, saying that the specification is too 'chatty' and relies on too much network bandwidth. The SyncML specification is designed to ensure that any device can synchronize PIM data with any other device. Microsoft said SyncML support will be made available through third parties."

Who needs who?
http://www.wirelessreview.com/ar/wireless_breaking_down_language/

"....US vendors have a connector that allows Microsoft products to be fully SyncML-compliant, even though Microsoft is not part of the consortium."
http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/handphones/0,39001719,39047680-2,00.htm
http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/handphones/0,39001719,39047680-1,00.htm

I can not find much real updated info on Palm and SyncML either besides "Palm and IBM are also working together on open standard technologies, including SyncML, and it's hoped that additional enterprise data will be able to be accessed using Lotus Domino."
http://www.palmpowerenterprise.com/issues/issue200209/announce001.html

And Palm has an agreement with Extended Systems Inc. to provide a migration path option for there current HotSync Server customers. The XTNDConnect Server enables users to synchronize Palm, Pocket PC, SyncML, Symbian and RIM mobile devices with corporate servers including Microsoft Exchange, Lotus Domino and any ODBC-compliant database. The cross-platform support that XTNDConnect Server provides is particularly notable as it provides IT managers with a single mobile data management solution for multiple devices and applications.
http://www.palm.com/support/enterprise/faq/entfaq.html
http://www.palm.com/enterprise/products/pdfs/xcserver.pdf

SyncML informative resource page
http://xml.coverpages.org/syncML.html

We will see what the future brings us.....

[Janak Parekh]

Call Microsoft and ask them what they think about SynML? LOL. They are holding the technology back for years imho. Could it have something to do with ActiveSync? ;o) The "we are looking into it" attitude of MS is childish and business at the same time imho. That i can not find much interesting info on MS and SyncML tells us something.....but i did found this....
No debate here, and I'd actually suspect that you'd find a lot of Thoughts members who'd love Microsoft to dump what is currently ActiveSync.

--janak

[wirelessgeek]

Call Microsoft and ask them what they think about SynML? LOL. They are holding the technology back for years imho. Could it have something to do with ActiveSync? ;o) The "we are looking into it" attitude of MS is childish and business at the same time imho. That i can not find much interesting info on MS and SyncML tells us something.....but i did found this....
No debate here, and I'd actually suspect that you'd find a lot of Thoughts members who'd love Microsoft to dump what is currently ActiveSync.

--janak

Talking about ActiveSync: What if i say that Microsoft seems also going to use there ActiveSync instead of the normal Bluetooth Sync technology concerning the Bluetooth PAN profile which others are using!?

"Analysts also questioned Microsoft's limited selection of Bluetooth "profiles," which enable support for various devices and uses. The Bluetooth transceiver supplied with Microsoft's peripherals, for example, offers a small number of computer-to-device connection profiles, allowing for the use of keyboards, mice, printers or cell phones, among others. At least in this first iteration of Bluetooth technology, Microsoft chose not to support what analysts expect to be one of the most important connection profiles, that allowing for the creation of a personal area network (PAN). Using PAN, devices can create a personal area network using the Internet protocol (IP), which lets machines linked in a network identify one another. "With PAN support the devices can address each other and don't necessarily have to go through the PC," IDC's Kay said. For instance, a digital camera could transmit images directly to a printer over Bluetooth without being processed through the PC. "Microsoft's long-term is strategy is routing everything through the PC (thus) making it more relevant," Kay said. "So they have a tendency not to support things that bypass the PC." Directions on Microsoft analyst Rob Helm said he found the software giant's position on the PAN profile somewhat perplexing, "because Microsoft co-designed that one." The range of a PAN would be limited to about 30 feet, but could let consumers do more with Bluetooth devices beyond the PC. When Microsoft eventually does add PAN support, the company doesn't plan to support the more open Bluetooth sync protocol, but will instead run everything through its proprietary ActiveSync technology. "If they supported the Bluetooth sync protocol, that would be vendor independent," Helm said. "Why would they do that? They would rather lock people into their own sync protocols with ActiveSync." Microsoft did not respond to requests for additional information on its Bluetooth strategy. A company representative said PAN support would be coming out a later time."
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-962116.html

Is this Microsoft or what?

[Janak Parekh]

Talking about ActiveSync: What if i say that Microsoft seems also going to use there ActiveSync instead of the normal Bluetooth Sync technology concerning the Bluetooth PAN profile which others are using!?
I know about this, too. :)

The thing is, Microsoft is betting the farm on ActiveSync as a competitor to iSync, and is trying to differentiate themselves by using their many-year-old protocol, that evolved from the CE 1 devices. I, as well as others, do believe that it's time for Microsoft to rebuild the protocol from the ground-up, and I'd love to see them use standards, including SyncML and the Bluetooth sync/OBEX profiles.

On the other hand, it's (a) not so easy to do; and (b) forces them to give up their hegemony (which they don't like to do). They also have a installed userbase which they'd like to keep compatibility with. Still, I'd rather see MS build ActiveSync mk II that's iSync compatible, and release a software update (EUU4?) for Pocket PC 2002 and future devices to support it. I'm not holding my breath, though. :|

Perhaps a 3rd party could address this...

--janak