Mobius Day Four: Last Day in Geek Paradise

[Jason Dunn]

Hardy Poppinga presented on the second day of Mobius, and his topic was Media2Go. Media2Go is a software reference platform based on Windows CE .NET. OEM partners like Viewsonic, Samsung, Sanyo, and Creative Labs are making devices based on this platform that Microsoft has created. The focus of Medis2Go is digital media: video, music, and photos. The base reference spec uses a 20 GB hard drive, and battery life is up to six hours – four 90 minute movies or 120 songs. Synchronization is accomplished using USB 2.0, and they’ve used the same cable for re-charging the device, which is superb. It's nice to see the USB camp has learned a few things from the Firewire camp.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/Mobius Europe 2003 - Paris, France 060.jpg" /> <br /><i>Figure 1: An early prototype of a Media2Go device. It was pretty heavy and chunky, but Hardy assured us that final hardware from OEM partners will be much nicer.</i><!><br /><br />When it came to deciding who to target the Media2Go platform at, Microsoft did consumer surveys asking people where they would use the Media2Go device. The top two scenarios were public transit and during periods of relaxation. Other scenarios include using it while shopping, riding a bike, driving, and exercising. I don’t quite grasp why driving would be on that list, because even listening to music with headphones while driving is extremely dangerous, so perhaps they meant "as a passenger in a car". I hope.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/Mobius Europe 2003 - Paris, France 057.jpg" /> <br /><i>Figure 2: The Media2Go interface.</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/Mobius Europe 2003 - Paris, France 058.jpg" /> <br /><i>Figure 3: The Media2Go interface with album art displayed</i><br /><br />Media playback supported includes MPEG4, Windows Media Video, Windows Media Audio. I asked about MP3 support, or other media support, and he wasn't sure. This was a bit of a shock, because media support would seem to be a key feature. I'm willing to bet that it supports MP3 though, and that they're using a variation of the 9 Series Windows Media Player for the Pocket PC. Of course, going against this point is the fact that Media2Go supports the Plus! Sync 'N Go, which doesn't support MP3 at all (a frustrating limitation). So, really, I'm just guessing because no one seems to know for sure. Speaking of those files, meta data is critical to listing the audio and video files – without the proper meta data, listings won’t be accurate.<br /> <br />The reference design uses a 3.8” touch screen, and both video (composite RCA) and audio (composite RCA stereo). Hardy spoke about Microsoft’s desire to see integrated Bluetooth, and with the platform being based on Windows CE .NET, they’ll have Bluetooth driver support right out of the box. The real question is whether or not the OEMs who are building these devices will include Bluetooth. With a maximum throughput of about 80 KB/s, that's pretty slow to transfer gigs of data. Bluetooth headphones would be a killer scenario though!<br /><br />They expect to see partners shipping Media2Go products for the Christmas 2003 season.<br /><br /><b><span>City Without Wires</span></b><br />Next up we had <a href="http://www.stevenberlinjohnson.com/">Steven Berlin Johnson</a> giving us a presentation dubbed "City Without Wires". It’s difficult to summarize what Steven talked about – he's one of those guys who's great to listen to (much like Clay Shirkey). He talked about the importance of filtering being applied to collective intelligence. A good example of this is the system that eBay has in place – their feedback system, by and large, is an effective way of gathering millions of opinions together, and applying filters to those opinions. He also talked about micro-communities connecting in real space (ie: the real world) assisted by online tools like <a href="www.meetup.com">www.meetup.com</a>. This site organizes local interests group. People identify themselves from virtual communities, then geographically, and when enough people with the same interests and in the same location are brought together online, they can connect in the real world. <br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/Mobius Europe 2003 - Paris, France 061.jpg" /> <br /><i>Figure 4: Steven Berlin Johnson</i><br /><br />I had exactly the same idea for Pocket PC User Groups.com almost two years ago – I wanted to create a system whereby people could come, register, and indicate they were interested in starting a user group in certain geographic area. After the system recognized that 'x' users in the same area were in the system, it would contact them all and create an online usergroup for them. So many good ideas, so little time and programming skill. ;-) Steven has a brilliant mind, so I've added a few of his books onto my Amazon wishlist. Great stuff!<br /><br /><b><span>Wrap-Up</span></b><br />We had a few more discussions as a group, including some great brain-storming sessions about mobile blogging, then Mobius was over. The conference lasts for a day and a half, which is sort of a pity considering how long some of us travelled to get there. Still, I wouldn't trade it for anything – I always enjoy Mobius events. They're very mind-expanding because I get to talk to other platform enthusiasts like myself, and I can understand why they've chosen their particular devices to champion.<br /><br />And that's it for Mobius! I've included here a few snapshots of my trip - enjoy!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis00.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis01.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis02.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis03.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis09.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis10.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis11.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis12.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis13.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis14.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis15.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis16.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis17.jpg" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/finalparis18.jpg" />

[Tom W.M.]

Media2Go is looking cool. I think that it has real potential, if Microsoft doesn't screw up what it formats it can read. It seems like standards like DivX and all of the various MPEG standards should be readable too, or no one will buy it. It would be a cool feature if it could mount and read DVD images from the HD, without users having to do anything but stick the disk in to their computer, start up WMP, and click "send".
By the way, what are the hardware specs (processor type, number of colors on the screen, etc.)? Also, will the devices use hardware to do the decoding, or will it be all software?

[Sheynk]

Now that I've almost completed the sale of my Toshiba...these babies look very good.

Does anyone know how they will stack up against the Lyra Audio/Video player introduced at CES?

[Tom W.M.]

Does anyone know how they will stack up against the Lyra Audio/Video player introduced at CES? Lyra A/V player? Does it have the same encryption as my Lyra2? :evil:

[Sheynk]

WMA...mp3 mp3pro i think

[TheNewSteve]

presumably for the driving use, they would mean some sort of dock/mount that would play music through the car speakers...

anybody ever used those FM radio transmitter things with success?

-Steve

[Tom W.M.]

WMA...mp3 mp3pro i think Those are not encrypted, but encoded. I mean the way mp3 and g2 files get encrypted into the .mpx format that only the Lyra can play. WMA is left alone, and can be played on the Lyra without being encrypted. That means that with WMA you don't have to mess with all of the junk software (Musicmatch, RealJukebox) that is supplied to move your music, you can just drag and drop. Plain mp3 files cannot be played by the Lyra2. (I hope that Media2Go lets you drag and drop, synchronization is just a pain for this sort of device.)
Could you post a link to the device you are talking about? I havn't heard of a Lyra video player.

[Sheynk]

Lyra in CES

http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-4133160-8-20788324-1.html?tag=ts

[Programmer]

Lyra in CES

http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-4133160-8-20788324-1.html?tag=ts

Thanks.. That looks very cool.

Robert

[kevinsb1]

Wow another 2GO media solution for a PDA. It's getting so crowded it looks like they re running out of names. Real Networks even has a PocketPC solution now. Mazingo sure has it's work cut out for it.

[PJE]

Hi,

I feel Microsoft would be better adding Media2Go as an extension to PocketPC OS rather than a stand alone player. Just look at the iPod, Apple are adding more and more PIM functions to it.

I would hate to have to wait for Media2GO v2 as well as Mira v2 before Microsoft get things right. All these devices, together with PocketPC 2003 should be able to run the same applications, with the difference being merely the hardware capabilities and form factor.

My 2c

PJE

[Tom W.M.]

Lyra in CES
http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-4133160-8-20788324-1.html?tag=ts
Wow! Really cool. Doesn't look like it plays DivX, though. I hope that with these players they provide some sort of plugin architecture, so that people can write codecs for them.

[Abba Zabba]

Hi,

I feel Microsoft would be better adding Media2Go as an extension to PocketPC OS rather than a stand alone player.

I totally agree PJE. This device would be the perfect extension to the PPC or why not just intigrate the two :?:

[Jason Dunn]

I feel Microsoft would be better adding Media2Go as an extension to PocketPC OS rather than a stand alone player...All these devices, together with PocketPC 2003 should be able to run the same applications, with the difference being merely the hardware capabilities and form factor.

I think the purpose of Media2Go is lost on you then, and that's not terribly surprising. The Media2Go device is created for the kind of people that can't or aren't interested in doing all of this on a Pocket PC. The UI on the Media2Go is locked down, dead simple to use, and doesn't try to do too much at once.

Other than the 20 GB hard drive, this device can't do anything that a Pocket PC can't do, so I doubt they'll sell many to people like us. Don't try to make it into something it's not. :wink:

[PJE]

I think the purpose of Media2Go is lost on you then, and that's not terribly surprising.

What's that meant to mean.... :?

I understand the use of embedded windows CE in products - I'm currently developing a custom industial solution around Windows CE.NET, and I'm not planning on PocketPC compatibility....

But the computing performance, display, etc of the Media2Go system (with the possible exception of the touchscreen and program memory - which could be reduced due to the dedicated nature of the software) are just the same as the PocketPC. How hard would it be for Microsoft to add the ~16MB of additional applications in a protected folder on the 20GB drive and add a button to the display to envoke PocketPC mode?

I agree that for the mass market a simple UI is essential and should be the default when the device is powered up, but I also stand by my claim that quite a high proportion of people using this level of technology would also like to browse Mazingo style text content, read their email and books and check their schedule while commuting on the train, and browse the web via their Bluetooth phone/WiFi.

With the Athens PC concept Microsoft are proposing an integrated solution for the desktop. I'd like to see a similar integrated solution (with the possible exception of the mobile phone which may need to be separate to to technology progressing so quickly) for the mobile device.

As it stands the device should do better than Mira (Smart Display), but opening up the device to additional software - such as games and other applications - would make the device much more saleable. They have the source code for the PocketPC apps, why not reuse it.

I'm probably being over technical about my views, but I don't see Palm/Sony developing single use devices. They're adding it into devices with high resolution displays/keyboards/bluetooth/etc.. If I (or I would claim anyone) had the choice between a Media2Go device and PDA that could perform the same functionality with software designed to be equally easy to use I doubt they'd choose the feature reduced version.

Again, only my 2c

Regards,

PJE

[kevinsb1]

Hi,

I feel Microsoft would be better adding Media2Go as an extension to PocketPC OS rather than a stand alone player. Just look at the iPod, Apple are adding more and more PIM functions to it.

PJE

I wouldnt be supprised if Sync'N Go gets included in a version of Pocket PC. Does anyone know if MS is going to include the AvantGo DLL in PocketPC 2003? They excluded it on the smartphone.

This thread brings up an interesting question. Is the the pocket pc a consumer device? I always thought it was. It was just a matter of pricing, or not enough consumer friendly applications. As the years go by.. I think we are up to three now. I am actually wondering if the Pocket PC will ever be used by the average person. I believe that many of the features on the pocket pc are too robust for the average consumer, hence Media2Go.

Kevin

[Jason Dunn]

I think the purpose of Media2Go is lost on you then, and that's not terribly surprising.

What's that meant to mean.... :?

I was simply expressing that power users tend to be a bit myopic when it comes to differentiating between what they want, and what the normal, non-geek consumer wants. You're welcome to your opinion of course, but if everyday consumers found the interface and form factor of a Pocket PC appealing, I think many more would be sold. :wink:

[PJE]

I was simply expressing that power users tend to be a bit myopic when it comes to differentiating between what they want, and what the normal, non-geek consumer wants. You're welcome to your opinion of course, but if everyday consumers found the interface and form factor of a Pocket PC appealing, I think many more would be sold. :wink:

I totally agree with you that for a consumer device the UI needs to be totally revamped from the PocketPC UI to be usable. It woudl also be nice to see some of that UI work incorporated into PocketPC as a replacement for the Today screen. The issue with the PocketPC is that most people don't need a PDA.

A lot more people would use a music/video player but inherently Media2Go is a geek device. How many men/women on the street are going to sync their $500 Media2Go device with a $2000 Windows XP Media Edition PC... The mere fact that you need a PC to sync the data takes the device out of the mainstream market.

To be a mainstream device the unit needs a video input/output port similar to the Japanese SD video player devices on the market. Agreed it takes a long time to upload information in real time, but having a Mini-TiVo device would make it mass market.

The average user will still go out and buy a Portable DVD player with MP3 playback such as the Panasonic DVDLA95 PalmTheater Portable DVD-Audio/Video Player with 9-Inch LCD (http://www.buy.com/retail/electronics/product.asp?sku=90115677&loc=111). As the LCD needs to be larger than 3.8" and higher than 320x240 for reasonable video playback.

However if Microsoft can find a way to take my TiVo content with me.. I may waiver on the single purpose thing. :wink: Especially if my PocketPC can access the 20GB drive over Bluetooth... Oh! thats the geek in me coming out :wink:

Regards,

PJE

[Felix Torres]

[quote="Sheynk"]Wow! Really cool. Doesn't look like it plays DivX, though. I hope that with these players they provide some sort of plugin architecture, so that people can write codecs for them.

Don't count on it.
MS is not about to do anything to promote DiVX when they're promoting WMV into the same market.
So anything but WMV (which is plenty good in its own right) will be outside the MEDIA2GO spec; any manufacturer that adds it will be doing so on its own and, given that that would require more firmware, more codecs, and more complexity, and that the average consumer on the street (non-techies) doesn't have the faintest idea what DiVX is, it is not at all likely that anybody would spend resources adding it to their product.
As of now, DiVX has essentially no presence outside PCs and is likely to stay that way.
Its the old chicken and egg problem; without content, nobody needs the CODEC in the player; without consumer products with the CODEC, nobody will produce content.
With Windows Media, MS is using low royalties, high quality CODECS, and DRM as levers to get deals for content in Windows Media formats at the same time they get their CODECS built into consumer products.
On audio devices they've succeeded in making WMA the most widely-used CODEC with optional DRM, second only to the unprotected MP3s and they're well on their way to doing even better than that in video CODECS; they are at least half the way to establishing WMV as the preferred way to deliver HDTV-quality video on DVDs while most of their competitors are still fussing around with DVD-quality output.

Bottom line: Don't hold your breath for DiVX support in any MS-inspired products.

[onepieceman]

I believe that many of the features on the pocket pc are too robust for the average consumer, hence Media2Go.

Kevin

If PocketPC is too hard to use for some people, and I'm sure that's true, then it seems fine to try to do a simpler device. I think the original issue in this thread was why can't the PocketPC operators amongst us not have access to that lovely hard disk?

These devices are larger than PocketPCs, and I wouldn't want to carry one around all the time, but if I did carry one around, I wouldn't also want to carry my PocketPC. As PJE pointed out, it wouldn't be a big deal to make the PocketPC firmware available on a portion of the disk for those that could be bothered to fire it up.