Can you afford a Lexus I-S?

[trachy]

Through May 31, 2003 everyone who test drives a Lexus I-S SportDesign gets a free $50 gift certificate from Handango! (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12179)

The question is, can you afford one of these? Bdegroodt seems to think the average computer geek can (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12179&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=8), but I see a whole lot of penny pinchers out there (myself included) who probably can't. The model referenced in the original thread runs approximately $30K USD, which can be financed at about $550/month (4% @ 60 months).

[Kati Compton]

There's different levels of "afford". Do I actually have the money that I could purchase it? Probably. Would it be a good idea for me at this point? No. So I'm voting no. My next car will probably be in the $20-$25K MSRP range. $5-$10K is a big difference to me.

But I do agree that the price line between low-end luxury and "regular" cars is getting pretty blurry. I mean, a Nissan Altima is around $20K MSRP now.

[Jacob]

If I needed one of these to survive I could probably squeeze it into my budget.

I'm voting no because it just ain't worth it.

[trachy]

There's different levels of "afford".

That's why I posed the question like I did. I didn't want to cloud the question with my personal interpretation of "afford." Like you, I could swing it, but then my daughter wouldn't be going to summer camp. ;-)

[Kati Compton]

That's why I posed the question like I did. I didn't want to cloud the question with my personal interpretation of "afford." Like you, I could swing it, but then my daughter wouldn't be going to summer camp. ;-)

I know some people that if they can actually make the payments, they can afford it. These people aren't worried about *saving* money, as long as they can get the things they want. Others, if they can't just write a check for it (no financing), they can't. So those different levels aren't the same for everyone.

For me, retirement savings are somewhat of a priority, actually, despite not being 30 yet. Roth IRAs are good.

[bljarv]

Maybe a good follow up question would be:
"Who cares if you can afford it, are you enough of a penny-pincher to go test drive it just so that you can get a $50 gift certificate?" :)

[bdegroodt]

Oh this should be entertaining if nothing else. Because it surely won't be valid data.

Might I add my own 2 cents to this that there's something awefully contradictory about any group of people that are willing to spend 5-7x on a PDA (You can get a Zire for $99) and in the same breath say they can't "afford" a $500 car payment. Just like the $600 iPaq does more than a $99 Zire, so do the "luxury" cars.

If anyone wants some vetted data, go pull the PC Mag demographics card from their advertising department. Still likely skewed, but at least closer to the truth than this poll shows so far.

[trachy]

Oh this should be entertaining if nothing else. Because it surely won't be valid data.

Of course, I never intended for this poll to be anything more than informal and inconclusive. The sample is just way too small.

I do, however, take issue with your observation that it's contradictory for a group of people to spend X on a PDA, but can't afford a $500 car payment. Making a one time $500 payment for a PDA is quite a bit different than making a $500 payment 60 consecutive times.

[Jacob]

Maybe a good follow up question would be:
"Who cares if you can afford it, are you enough of a penny-pincher to go test drive it just so that you can get a $50 gift certificate?" :)

I would not call taking an hour out of your day for a $50 dollar gift certificate penny pinching.

Do you consider an hour of your time worth $50?

$50 in the scheme of PPC software can go a long way..

I think the better question is really: Are you willing to go and just lie to the lexus salesman and knowingly waste their time for $50??

[trachy]

I would not call taking an hour out of your day for a $50 dollar gift certificate penny pinching.

Do you consider an hour of your time worth $50?

Good point. I think a good analogy would be touring a timeshare while on vacation just to get the free tickets to Disney World. Everyone involved with the transaction knows that a good deal of people are just along for the ride. The question then becomes, is a Lexus care salesman as patient as a timeshare salesman?

[bljarv]

Maybe a good follow up question would be:
"Who cares if you can afford it, are you enough of a penny-pincher to go test drive it just so that you can get a $50 gift certificate?" :)

I would not call taking an hour out of your day for a $50 dollar gift certificate penny pinching.

Do you consider an hour of your time worth $50?

$50 in the scheme of PPC software can go a long way..

I think the better question is really: Are you willing to go and just lie to the lexus salesman and knowingly waste their time for $50??

Jacob, you've hit my real issue right on the head. I don't think I could drive to the Lexus dealer, listen to the hype, test drive the car, and return home in less than an hour. I think there is a 5 hour minimum at every car dealership, isn't there? Maybe if you were really straight up with the salesperson and said, "Hey, I want the gift certificate, not the car..."

Hmm...

[Jacob]

Jacob, you've hit my real issue right on the head. I don't think I could drive to the Lexus dealer, listen to the hype, test drive the car, and return home in less than an hour. I think there is a 5 hour minimum at every car dealership, isn't there? Maybe if you were really straight up with the salesperson and said, "Hey, I want the gift certificate, not the car..."

Hmm...

You can make it much shorter.. I'd just say "I'm looking at different options for a new car right now and just comparing a few. I wasn't considering the Lexus until I saw this deal for $50 at Handango.com. Anyways, I'd like to take a test drive just to see how it handles."

You can easily just get them to give you the $50 and just don't get into any paperwork - just get a preliminary price and say you need to think about it.

I'd say it'd take around an hour - including the actual test drive.

[bdegroodt]

Maybe a good follow up question would be:
"Who cares if you can afford it, are you enough of a penny-pincher to go test drive it just so that you can get a $50 gift certificate?" :)

I would not call taking an hour out of your day for a $50 dollar gift certificate penny pinching.

Do you consider an hour of your time worth $50?...

Um...Yes and then some. But I'd still go test drive one for the heck of it. Beats paying money to be entertained right?

[bdegroodt]

BTW, didn't Jason take some polls of this very nature about 6 months ago when he was working out the site demographics for the advertisers? Maybe Jason could give us a peek into this question. No real data Jason, just a yes/no on if the results speak to an income that could/would likely afford a $500/month car payment.

[Jacob]

Do you consider an hour of your time worth $50?...

Um...Yes and then some. But I'd still go test drive one for the heck of it. Beats paying money to be entertained right?

I agree... I'm just probably too lazy to go to a lexus dealer.

Hmmm... maybe this saturday..

[bljarv]

Alright, I broke down and went and test drove a Lexus on my lunch break. I was straight up with the guy and told him that there was only a snowball's chance of me buying one of his cars. He was a good sport and we went for a drive in one of the nicest cars I have ever driven. In the end, I think it was a good marketing opportunity for Lexus - it got me in the door and introduced me to a line of vehicles I never would have considered.

Now I've got something new to dream about at night...just hope my iPAQ isn't jealous! :wink: Oh, I mean my WIFE, not iPAQ!!!

[Jacob]

That's probably a good customer service move on his part :D

Probably any dealer would do that... I think I might just show up on Saturday to do this.

[rberry88]

Since my current auto cost me more than that car I guess I'll pick Yes. Would I prefer to have that car?? NO!! :lol:

rberry88

[lurch]

I would not call taking an hour out of your day for a $50 dollar gift certificate penny pinching.
Do you consider an hour of your time worth $50?
Good point. I think a good analogy would be touring a timeshare while on vacation just to get the free tickets to Disney World. Everyone involved with the transaction knows that a good deal of people are just along for the ride. The question then becomes, is a Lexus care salesman as patient as a timeshare salesman?
No, then the question becomes, just because lots of people are going to do it, and they're expecting people to do it, does that make it right?

[Jacob]

No, then the question becomes, just because lots of people are going to do it, and they're expecting people to do it, does that make it right?

I'd have to say yes. How is it immoral to go for a test drive just to get the $50?

If you just tell the salesmen: Look, I saw this offer and I'd like to take a test drive and get the gift certificate.

The salesperson has to do it - it's his job.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong - how is that so much worse than someone doing that and just not buying a car. It actually wastes more of the salesman's time if you negotiate and not buy than if you just take the test drive.

I really don't think there's a big moral issue here. Nothing ever really made doing this wrong.

[bdegroodt]

No, then the question becomes, just because lots of people are going to do it, and they're expecting people to do it, does that make it right?

I'd have to say yes. How is it immoral to go for a test drive just to get the $50?

If you just tell the salesmen: Look, I saw this offer and I'd like to take a test drive and get the gift certificate.

The salesperson has to do it - it's his job.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong - how is that so much worse than someone doing that and just not buying a car. It actually wastes more of the salesman's time if you negotiate and not buy than if you just take the test drive.

I really don't think there's a big moral issue here. Nothing ever really made doing this wrong.

Playing the Devil's Advocate here, there's really 2 sides to this argument. A- Lexus just says come on down and test drive a Lexus. Nothing in the rules about intent to buy etc. So, legally, nothing wrong and perhaps since law is based on morality, nothing immoral about it. That said, just because it's not immoral or technically illegal, doesn't mean it's a good idea or the right thing to do.

[lurch]

I'd have to say yes. How is it immoral to go for a test drive just to get the $50?
If you just tell the salesmen: Look, I saw this offer and I'd like to take a test drive and get the gift certificate.
The salesperson has to do it - it's his job.
There's nothing wrong with this, everything's up-front, there's no deception involved. But the example given before (and it was the idea I was responding to) was that if it's expected that people will go and pretend (keyword here) to want to buy something to get the perks, then it's okay to do so, because it's expected. That's not true.

So, legally, nothing wrong and perhaps since law is based on morality, nothing immoral about it.
I've just got to comment on this - law was perhaps at one time based on morality, but it isn't anymore... it's not valid to say "it's legal, therefore it's moral" if anything, the reverse could possibly be true (but again, not necessarily) where you'd say "it's moral, therefore it's legal". But from some <unnamed> dictatorships that have been in the world's spotlight we've noticed that in some places even things that are moral are not legal.

[Jacob]

The intent of this offer is to get people into the dealership to give salespeople the opportunity to sell you the car. Yes, their hope is that you will buy a lexus, but a car isn't a purchase any rational person just sees a commercial for and just goes out to buy.

Personally, I don't really see the big deal with pretending either - as long as you don't waste too much of the dealer's time - this still is giving the dealer the opportunity to really sell you the car, which is the intent of the offer in the first place.

I really don't think this discussion needs to get into morality vs legality. I think law is still based on morality. No, it's not based on pure christian morality, but I don't think it should be. The law has to be part based on morality and also has to be practical as to the needs of society. In any case, as I said, there's no need to go so off-topic into a debate on the law and moral code.

[lurch]

I really don't think this discussion needs to get into morality vs legality. I think law is still based on morality. No, it's not based on pure christian morality, but I don't think it should be. The law has to be part based on morality and also has to be practical as to the needs of society. In any case, as I said, there's no need to go so off-topic into a debate on the law and moral code.
Let's end the discussion, and I'll even give you the last word... (but you're wrong) :wink:

[bdegroodt]

I really don't think this discussion needs to get into morality vs legality. I think law is still based on morality. No, it's not based on pure christian morality, but I don't think it should be. The law has to be part based on morality and also has to be practical as to the needs of society. In any case, as I said, there's no need to go so off-topic into a debate on the law and moral code.
Let's end the discussion, and I'll even give you the last word... (but you're wrong) :wink:

I'll take the last word since it was my statement being debated. :D My point was only that law has deep roots in morality and thus the basis of law itself. Not that every law today has a connection to morality directly. In fact, I think law today has less to do with morality and more with lobbying, but that's another issue all together.

And I am right...Just ask me. :lol:

[dh]

Oooops, I'm making a comment after the last word.

Anyway, I worked in a dealership for a while, during a time that my own business was doing real bad and I had bills to pay.

The car industry is all done by numbers. The salespeople are expected to return a certain percentage of demos, write-ups and closing of all people that walk in.

By going into the dealership and taking a testdrive, you are getting the salesperson's demo percentage up which helps him. Of course he needs a percentage of demo drivers to actually buy something, but most do. In the three months I did it, over 65% of people that I let drive a car bought it.

As I mentioned before, some dealers tend to pre-qualify customers and won't even talk to people that don't look "right". If it's a kid wanting to drive the car, how do you know his dad won't come back and buy it for him? Happened to me all the time.

Let's face it, most people think car dealerships suck. (In fact, yes they do). But even if someone just goes to take a drive for the $50.00, if they are treated well they are going to tell people they were. All good marketing.