The PDAification of the iPod

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.apple.com/ipod/' target='_blank'>http://www.apple.com/ipod/</a><br /><br /></div>Apple announced its new iPods today. Apart from the fact that they're sleeker and come in larger capacities, Apple's doing something interesting: they're slowly integrating PDA functions into the unit. The first iPods had a Contacts "add-on" module that you could download and install, although they did only sync with Macs. The new ones have even more: three games, a Notes/primitive e-book module, and an alarm clock.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/news/20030428-Apple-iPod.gif" /><br /><br />Without a doubt, I think certain aspects of this approach are clever, but I'm curious as to what, if any, effect this will have on the PDA industry. Is approaching PDA functions from a lifestyle perspective (e.g., a cell phone or iPod) a smart move? (As for the iPod itself, if it had Ogg support, which it doesn't yet, I'd seriously consider buying one today. 30GB! 8O)

[ExtremeSIMS]

With AAC support, I was pretty pleased. Need to figure out justification in my head for it!

[gorkon280]

Apple announced its new iPods today. Apart from the fact that they're sleeker and come in larger capacities, Apple's doing something interesting: they're slowly integrating PDA functions into the unit. The first iPods had a Contacts "add-on" module that you could download and install, although they did only sync with Macs. The new ones have even more: three games, a Notes/primitive e-book module, and an alarm clock.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/news/20030428-Apple-iPod.gif

Without a doubt, I think certain aspects of this approach are clever, but I'm curious as to what, if any, effect this will have on the PDA industry. Is approaching PDA functions from a lifestyle perspective (e.g., a cell phone or iPod) a smart move? (As for the iPod itself, if it had Ogg support, which it doesn't yet, I'd seriously consider buying one today. 30GB! 8O)

I am not really all that impressed. It's thin, sleak and costs a heck of a lot more then some MP3 players that are just a bit thicker. My Nomad Zen USB 2.0 supports another format other than MP3 (WMA) and can do everything except the games...and who needs that. The PDA is what I use for games.

[Steveb123]

Sometime in the future, your pocket pc, cell phone, and music player will become one. We are starting to see it now with the technology in cell phones as well as the fusion of the pda/phone. There is still sometime, however, till these devices become truly practicle. Someday, pocket pc's will be sporting 10 gig hd's and have truly intregated phone capabilities. this will be rather nice, for i am looking forward to making some more room in my pockets! :D

for those that haven't seen it, check out the oqo (www.oqo.com). its concept is the future of the pda. when we actually see it though, is another story...

[JohnnyFlash]

The iPod has had an alarm for ages - although the new one can apparently trigger a tune (sounds nice, until you realise there's no built-in speaker ;-)

Wonderful as the iPod (and new iPods) are, perhaps more important is the simulataneous launch of the first online music purchasing scheme that may actually work. I'm using it with iTunes 4 now, and it's wonderful.

As a Windows version is in the works, that may be more important to us Pocket PC users.

[Sheynk]

Mac look better and better everyday...now move to a new architechture with the same 128 bit processing technology and 3+ ghz :lol: ...in a laptop

really... they look more attractive everyday, but now that Centrino is out, it steals the lead in my perspective

[TypeMRT]

I am not really all that impressed. It's thin, sleak and costs a heck of a lot more then some MP3 players that are just a bit thicker. My Nomad Zen USB 2.0 supports another format other than MP3 (WMA) and can do everything except the games...

and seemless synchronizing of music, playlists, contact info, appointments and larger screen and easier navigation and USB 2.0/Firewire connectivity and integration of legit music downloads (Apple Music Store). But besides that the Nomad Zen 2.0 is pretty much the same :wink:

Notice: Happy owner of an Apple Powerbook & 20 GB iPod using iTunes 4 & Music Store 8)

[dean_shan]

I want the new iPod even more then the old one. It is still out of my price range though. I like how they added more games and had lit buttons.

[Jason Dunn]

With AAC support, I was pretty pleased. Need to figure out justification in my head for it!

I'm curious, why would this please you? Doesn't AAC have some pretty hard-core DRM features? 99 cents a song is good price, but not if I don't truly own it. Can you play this music outisde of iTunes? Is iTunes the only audio player that Mac users ever use? Seems a little odd to me...that's cool that there's a PC version coming though, I'd like to check this out myself...assuming it's available in Canada by then. I notice this is yet another "USA only" deal.

[dean_shan]

[quote="Jason Dunn\Is iTunes the only audio player that Mac users ever use?[/quote] itunes is the only music player I use when on my (OK my school's) iBook. I'm not a hard core Mac user though.

[JohnnyFlash]

Can you play this music outisde of iTunes? Is iTunes the only audio player that Mac users ever use? Seems a little odd to me...

Yes, you can make audio CDs from it, so I'm not sure how much more you can "own" it. You can also play it on your iPod. You can share it with other macs on your local network automagically with Rendezvous (my upstairs mac is now streaming my downstairs mac's itunes database). There is no need for other players than iTunes on a Mac, because iTunes is really that good.

If you don't see what the fuss about iTunes/iPod is, then you should try it. You'll discover than someone actually designed these things rather than cobbled them together, and the result is a truly convenient and powerful system. Because it's convenient and hassle-free, I use iTunes/iPod more than I ever used a variety of PC based MP3 players. iTunes leaves Windows-based music systems back in the 90's.

If you appreciate design, in hardware and software, you owe it to yourself to try it out.

[felixdd]

At 30 GB -- who needs Ogg! ;)

I think the point that it can be classified as a conventional PDA is when it has a touch-screen.

[marlof]

Yes, you can make audio CDs from it, so I'm not sure how much more you can "own" it.

That was the thing that might get me over the line (once it's available in The Netherlands that is...). At first, I was a bit worried since it said (http://www.apple.com/music/store/) "It’s easy, it’s fair and it’s legal. The iTunes Music Store is fast and convenient for you, and fair to the artists and record companies. In a nutshell, you can play your music on up to three computers, enjoy unlimited synching with your iPods, burn unlimited CDs of individual songs, and burn unchanged playlists up to 10 times each.". 3 computers? Hmmm.... But if you can rerip the music CDs you burn from these files and have no limits to the amount of computers they can play on, I'm a happy camper, and I finally might get to getting an iPOD after all. :)

[Nellwaskilled]

Meh...,

I'll take Toshiba 5GB PCcard and a sleeve thanks. At least I can watch video to and have the freedom to choose my codec.

Of course if anybody want to donate a 6GB CF card I will take it too. :D

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Is approaching PDA functions from a lifestyle perspective (e.g., a cell phone or iPod) a smart move? (As for the iPod itself, if it had Ogg support, which it doesn't yet, I'd seriously consider buying one today. 30GB! 8O)
This move certainly can't hurt a digital music unit already considered by many to be best-in-class. I hope they keep pushing the envelope in future releases. It can only mean good things for the PDA market as a whole IMO.

I'm with you though. Give me OGG support and I'd probably take this everywhere!

[klinux]

Doesn't AAC have some pretty hard-core DRM features?

Depends on how you see it. AAC formatted music I rip from my own CDs can be moved to anywhere just as if they are MP3 files. AAC music you download from the Apple Music store has restrictions on them like others have pointed out. This is no different than if the music was encoded in WMA (free to move if you rip your own, possible restriction if purchased on a CD or downloaded). I am for fair DRM.


99 cents a song is good price, but not if I don't truly own it. Can you play this music outisde of iTunes?

See above. Like others said, you can burn it to an audio CD, play it on iPod, and stream it over network. Sure, it is not as free as MP3 but MP3 offers no protection for the owners of the work.


Is iTunes the only audio player that Mac users ever use?

No, there are other MP3 players for Mac but AFAIK iTunes is the only AAC player.


I notice this is yet another "USA only" deal. Yeah, not only that it is a "Mac only" deal.

***

I purchased an opera album (Mozart's Idomeneo - 2 CDs for $12). It is definitely painless and easy. The store layout is great and intuitive. The classical music selection is anemic but I am not surprised. The fact that the music is encoded at 128 kbps in AAC is good (at least better than MP3) but could be better.

It is true that Mac users pay more for the integration but I got to say that it is very well done. While PC users (I am one as well) may bemoan the lack of choices when it comes to audio-playback, iTunes is really an elegant player. In my experience it is superior to WMP, WinAMP, and MusicMatch. RealPlayer comes close but its intrusiveness bugs me.

I don't have an iPod yet but this is getting more and more tempting. In my ideal scenario, I would have an iPod for music and as a portable HD and a Smartphone as my data-centric device.

[entropy1980]

3 computers? Hmmm....
It's actually a pretty good deal you can unregister and re-register your Mac's so if you buy a new one you can de-register an old one and add the new one.... I downloaded a bunch from the new store today and let me say it is way easy burned a couple CD's played in my PC, car, and discman they played fine.... then re-ripped them to my PC this is the first Pay-Service that i actually feel good about using....

[marlof]

this is the first Pay-Service that i actually feel good about using....

Can't wait til it crosses the pond.

[Foo Fighter]

Hmm...this looks really compelling. I've always wanted an iPod, and now that Mac and PC connectivity are bundled in one standard package, I no longer am forced to choose which platform iPod to buy; MacPod or WinPod. The only thing that sticks in my crawl is the pricetag. $299 is a bit much in today's MP3 player market. $199 is more reasonable for the entry model.

I'm not sure whether to buy it or not. I was thinking of upgrading to a "better" Pocket PC...like the new HP 2200. :|

[Foo Fighter]

Another thing that bothers me is the hard drive itself. How reliable are these tiny hard drive to failure? I would think one drop, and it's all over for the HD...and your iPod. And the last thing I want is $300 going down the drain.

[tj21]

and seemless synchronizing of music, playlists, contact info, appointments and larger screen and easier navigation and USB 2.0/Firewire connectivity and integration of legit music downloads (Apple Music Store). But besides that the Nomad Zen 2.0 is pretty much the same :wink:

Notice: Happy owner of an Apple Powerbook & 20 GB iPod using iTunes 4 & Music Store 8)

Ipods are great but huge bonuses to the Zen for cost (~$220 for the 20Gb version at Dell) and that the Zen uses standard notebook hard drives so you can upgrade to a 40Gb or 60Gb version in about 5 minutes without any serious technical knowledge.

Non-mac users should at least look at a Zen before you buy an ipod. You might still buy the ipod but the Zen is definitely worth an evaluation.

[klinux]

I downloaded a bunch from the new store today and let me say it is way easy burned a couple CD's played in my PC, car, and discman they played fine.... then re-ripped them to my PC this is the first Pay-Service that i actually feel good about using....

I hear that the re-ripped version sounded poor. Is that true or not true in your scenario? How did you re-rip it on your PC? I imagine you did not use a high bit rate format so it MP3/WMA version cannot be as good as the original AAC version.

[JohnnyFlash]

Why would you want to re-rip it?

[klinux]

Ipods are great but huge bonuses to the Zen for cost (~$220 for the 20Gb version at Dell) and that the Zen uses standard notebook hard drives so you can upgrade to a 40Gb or 60Gb version in about 5 minutes without any serious technical knowledge.

Non-mac users should at least look at a Zen before you buy an ipod. You might still buy the ipod but the Zen is definitely worth an evaluation.

Certainly. I did not buy the Zen because it did not integrate as well as iTune, it does not look as good as the iPod, and it is 50% bigger (in volume) than the iPod. Those reason may not worth the difference in cost which is significant as your noted. To each his or her own, I guess.

[jeffmd]

I havnt given the acc any seriuse thought untill I read that the ipod was supporting it. untill then, the only thing I knew about acc was that some groups who did high quality dvd rips (dvd to divx) would use acc to preserve the 5.1 channel audio. Its not real popular because #1 it lacks alot of tools, and #2 the reason it lacks tools it the format isnt free, so you cant really offer free programs that freely encode and decode to ACC.

that said, ACC seems to be the best compression at the moment to offer near lossless audio quality while offeirng lossless compressions. What I have yet to uncover however, is at what specific datarates. ACC may own at 512Kbits a second, but thats nearly twice the data rate of a bloated 320Kbit mp3. And I know OGG can be beautifull at data rates between 192-256Kbits. OGG also gets bonus points for being completly free. that means if it can get more widespread attention, more free tools can be made for it. ACC will never get any lega free tools.

Anyways.. the new ipod looks nice, but im a die hard MP3CD fan. ive got tons of mp3's, and I think the amount of mp3's on one cd is more then enough for many hours of playback alone, let alone the 60ish I have burned. and because they are all on 60cds, I can still use my MP3s on any cdrom device, and if my ipod get lost, stolen, or broken, I don't lose my entire collection. And considering a iriver 350 SlimX can be had for $100, who needs a $300+ bloated mp3 player.

Now if only someone would support ogg. Im currently running irivers 250 mp3cd player, and I might get the 350 if the price drops more, but im really just waiting for a ogg player. Not that my pocket pc is a bad portable player as well. I mean heck, with winampaq supporting winamp 2.x skins, no other mp3 device in the world can match it in looks. ;)

[theone3]

Data entry people, DATA ENTRY 8O

how do you get appointments into an Ipod w/o a PC/Mac?

[theone3]

The main treat now for PPC is not phones or convergence devices like the ipod, it is the once underpowerd Palm OS.

Just look at this review http://www.brighthand.com/article/Zire_71_review

The Zire runs movies at 320x320 in 165 fps with a 144 Mhz processor. :evil: and even has a cammera.

My Ipaq 1910 can barely run movies at 20 fps at 320 x 240 with 200 Mhz processor :cry:

Microsoft should do something to improove multimedia or Palm OS is going to win the race :devilboy:

Agreed. Thanks to palm's uh.. unmerger :| both parts have become smaller and therefore more versatile and innovative. Microsoft, doing all that the DOJ will let it do, is supplying an OS to too many companies, and to make a major change has become extremely difficult..

Let's see what happens with PPC2003, hopefully, MS are changing their tactics, otherwise, we may see Palm taking over...



And then MS will have to buy it :roll:

[rlobrecht]

then re-ripped them to my PC

How'd they sound after you reripped them? I'm thinking you would lose something in that process.

[Janak Parekh]

At 30 GB -- who needs Ogg! ;)
Because I don't want to rerip all my music yet again. :)

I think the point that it can be classified as a conventional PDA is when it has a touch-screen.
Absolutely. The question is, will Apple hit more "conventional consumers", who don't feel the need for a traditional PDA, this way?

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

I am not really all that impressed. It's thin, sleak and costs a heck of a lot more then some MP3 players that are just a bit thicker. My Nomad Zen USB 2.0 supports another format other than MP3 (WMA) and can do everything except the games...and who needs that. The PDA is what I use for games.
Admittedly, it's not a revolution, but your Zen is quite a bit bigger than the new iPods. The 10/15GB iPods are nearly half the weight and half as thick.

I don't disagree on the price, though... but Apple is taking advantage of the fact their product is "new".

--janak

p.s. I've moved the discussion of video playback on Palms and Pocket PCs here (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11875). It's not relevant to this conversation. :)

[Stake]

The new iPod is very sleek and from comparing it from the previous iPod, they made some vast improvements. Though I hope the PC sync support is improved because I had a heck of a time trying to fix a friend's iPod on the PC. It would sync for a few songs and then completely lock up. Admitedly, it was musicmatch that was causing the issue but why not write a PC version of iTunes?

Now, why can't a PC manufacturer take on Apple's industrial design and forward thinking? Wouldn't it be incredible if a PC manufacturer could top the 17" Powerbook? The closest anyone has come to that I could see is Dell with their wide screen laptop. Aren't there enough engineers/designers to go around? There's gotta be someone willing to step out on a limb and say that we care about the design and actually listen to consumer need. :soapbox:

[Janak Parekh]

Now, why can't a PC manufacturer take on Apple's industrial design and forward thinking?
Sony comes very close. Their new Centrino notebook is sleek, sexy and small, and very power-conservative. Their PDAs integrate neat features. I hate Memory Stick :pukeface:, but they do now have 1GB support out. Of course, as with Apple, you get some proprietary aspects as part of the deal. (Apple's getting better in this, but it'll take some more time.)

--janak

[bdegroodt]

Meh...,

I'll take Toshiba 5GB PCcard and a sleeve thanks. At least I can watch video to and have the freedom to choose my codec.

Of course if anybody want to donate a 6GB CF card I will take it too. :D

What about battery life though? You get 8 hours from the Ipod versus 4 if you're real lucky on the iPaq.

BTW, 7500 songs!??? I'm scared of the person that has that many songs in their playlist (Not total songs on CDs. I mean songs they are interested in ripping and hearing over and over.).

[bdegroodt]

The new iPod is very sleek and from comparing it from the previous iPod, they made some vast improvements. Though I hope the PC sync support is improved because I had a heck of a time trying to fix a friend's iPod on the PC. It would sync for a few songs and then completely lock up. Admitedly, it was musicmatch that was causing the issue but why not write a PC version of iTunes?


Probably because Apple wants to sell Apples and iTunes has been a huge winner for Apple. My guess is that the more Apple can tease a PC user into their market with a littel bit of this (ipod) and a little bit of that (OS X), they'll start to see a greater conversion rate from PC to Mac. It's likely also why it just so happens that Mac support always ships a few months before PC support at Apple. I'd be willing to guess both versions are ready at about the same time, but why not make the PC users wait to the point of purchasing that Mac? Tease them into submission!:twisted:

Now, why can't a PC manufacturer take on Apple's industrial design and forward thinking? Wouldn't it be incredible if a PC manufacturer could top the 17" Powerbook? The closest anyone has come to that I could see is Dell with their wide screen laptop. Aren't there enough engineers/designers to go around? There's gotta be someone willing to step out on a limb and say that we care about the design and actually listen to consumer need.

It's probably no coincidence that Dell is just about the only PC manufacturer with a "loyal" group of buyers similar to Apple loyalists. I've seen people defend Dell computers like they are some sort of proprietary design and parts like an Apple. As we all know, you can grab just about ever part Dell uses off the shelf at a local Fry's etc. Give it time. Dell or will find their way into the market. They just brought out a wide screen laptop that's pretty slick and yesterday announced some "gaming" machines that are moves in the right direction. At least give them credit for making a box that ships in something other than beige :lol:

[gorkon280]

Have you actually set a Zen and a iPod next to each other? The Zen is most definitely not 50 percent bigger than a iPod unless your comparing it to the new ones. Even then, the size difference isn't great. As long as it's sized like a Walkman, I will be happy. Smaller doesn't always equal better either. What if they start making a iPod so small, you loose it your car? What if they make one so small, the LCD is undreadable? Personally, if I had someting a bit larger, then I would hope the LCD might be as well. I am waiting for a Archos like one (the one that can play DIVX and MPEG) eith a screen at least as large as a Pocket PC. They can do it and even keep a similar form factor (no hardware controls on face......).



Ipods are great but huge bonuses to the Zen for cost (~$220 for the 20Gb version at Dell) and that the Zen uses standard notebook hard drives so you can upgrade to a 40Gb or 60Gb version in about 5 minutes without any serious technical knowledge.

Non-mac users should at least look at a Zen before you buy an ipod. You might still buy the ipod but the Zen is definitely worth an evaluation.

Certainly. I did not buy the Zen because it did not integrate as well as iTune, it does not look as good as the iPod, and it is 50% bigger (in volume) than the iPod. Those reason may not worth the difference in cost which is significant as your noted. To each his or her own, I guess.

[klinux]

Have you actually set a Zen and a iPod next to each other? The Zen is most definitely not 50 percent bigger than a iPod unless your comparing it to the new ones. Even then, the size difference isn't great.


You do not have to take my word for it. Take the LWH measurement of the Zen and compare it to the iPod (even the old ones) and you will see that the Zen is indeed 50% bigger in volume. To you the size difference may not matter and that's fine but would people buy their <insert PPC> here if it was 50% bigger?

[jlp]

[quote=Stake]I hate Memory Stick :pukeface:

Oh you mean MemorySTINKS or is it MemorySH!T, no wait... it's MemorySINK, well unless it's MemorySICK :lol:

[jlp]

gorkon280,

Wait for the next Archos that was introduced at the March CeBIT:
http://home.urbanet.ch/urba4768/div/AV340Cebit_1b.jpg

More info here (http://shanebrinkmandavis.com/homepage/JBMM/PrereleasePicts/index.htm)

[ctmagnus]

Another thing that bothers me is the hard drive itself. How reliable are these tiny hard drive to failure? I would think one drop, and it's all over for the HD...and your iPod. And the last thing I want is $300 going down the drain.

My Nomad Jukebox 3 has taken several (short) falls of late, without a problem yet.

What really surprises me though, is I owned the thing for nine months before I dropped it the first time!

[jeffmd]

jlp, my only problem with that, is once you get a large openfaced screen like that, the fragile factor goes through the roof. now im going to need a case for that as to not scratch the screen, and I definetly cant toss it around for fear of shattering it. Just like my pocket pc! I like my mp3cd player because it needs no case.. I can have my hands all over it, and the screen dosnt suck power like there is no tomarow.

[bdegroodt]

jlp, my only problem with that, is once you get a large openfaced screen like that, the fragile factor goes through the roof. now im going to need a case for that as to not scratch the screen, and I definetly cant toss it around for fear of shattering it. Just like my pocket pc! I like my mp3cd player because it needs no case.. I can have my hands all over it, and the screen dosnt suck power like there is no tomarow.

Not only that, but those Nomad pictures make that device look like an oversized video camera (Ala VHS tapes) with a detachable screen. Doesn't look too slick to me. ETHO!

[klinux]

jlp: I like the device. It looks like it is running Trolltech's Qtopia. Can anyone confirm?

[sponge]

I see where your thinking it's running QT, but it does seem off quite a bit.. though I'd love some more confident words.

[IpaqMan2]

This could have a HUGE IMAPCT on PDAs.... Or atleast this is my guest.

I appologize if this has already been mentioned and I missed the post.

It seems like anything Apple does, it's met with huge ooOOoos and Ahhhs from the media and the world. If their iPod eventually evulotionizes into a full fledge PDA, Apple will probably set a new standard of PDAs to have a built in 30 gig hardrive or some other size. And because it's Apple who would release it, you know it will be small, sleek, thin, lightweight, and will have a pretty decent battery time between charges. Apple has something that not even Microsoft has. Apple could release some turd on a glass but yet elegant plate and call it art and give it the name of iPoop and everyone will ooOOoo and Ahhhh at it.

As for PDAs.... I use to think an intergrated PDA and phone was the way to go....But not anymore...Cell phones can be too disposable, meaning you usually need to get a different phone with each carrier you go with and I'd rather have that freedom with my cell phone provider than feeling tied down because I spent 600 bucks on a PDA phone. I'd rather have the PDA of my choice with Bluetooth and a cellphone with bluetooth.

[beq]

Cool, just saw CNet's A/V clip on Jobs' presentation. That guy has showmanship down pat :)

So this thing is like a bit lighter and thinner (and I think shorter/narrower?) than the classic iPAQs?? I'm guessing it uses the same 1.8" HDD form factor as in the past (or can they pack 30GB into a 1" 8O )? 1394 + USB2 is cool also.

For the umpteenth time, someone puhleeze squeeeeeze a HDD into a PPC!

EDIT: And I'll tell you what's perfect. The size of new iPod with the capacities of 3.5" HDD (say 320GB) with driverless 1394/USB2 plus Gigabit Ethernet as a portable NAS (to extrapolate from Ximeta's NetDisk http://news.com.com/2100-1015-998834.html ). Oh heck merge a whole PPC into that while you're at it...

[marlof]

Hmmm.... iTunes for Windows (***http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=17792667). iPod that is Mac / Windows capable. A online Music Store. It seems that Apple has found itself a money making idea. :)

[klinux]

Already bought $24 of music! To me this is not as much as Apple making money as the prestige factor. Who else can convince five major labels to offer together their music for download, create a DRM model that is fair, etc?

[ctmagnus]

Hmmm.... iTunes for Windows (***http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=17792667). iPod that is Mac / Windows capable. A online Music Store. It seems that Apple has found itself a money making idea. :)

You had two links in there :)

The functioning link is here (http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=17792667).

[xoiph]

Looks like the Newton is back...