Monday, Bloody Monday

[Andy Sjostrom]

New laptop last week. Installed Windows 2003 Server, Office XP, VS.NET 2003, SQL Server 2000, SQL Server 2000 SP3, eMbedded Visual Tools, ActiveSync, SQL Server CE. Configured the laptop. Moved all data from old laptop to new laptop. Deleted data from old laptop. Took all week. All week.<br /><br />Worked all week end. Doing taxes. Writing articles. Monday morning. Crash. Crash. Hard drive could not be found.<br /><br />Pulse up. Off balance. Called Dell support. Hard drive is broken. Pull out hard drive. Try to knock on hard drive on the side. Dell rep said we should first pray to God of Computers. We did. No luck. Send new hard drive tomorrow. All data lost.<br /><br />All data lost. All data lost. Tears. All week end. All data lost.<br /><br />Take out hard drive again. Hit it very hard. Very hard. Frustration. Try again. It came alive. Rescue, rescue, rescue data. All data recovered. Hard drive died again. God of Computers heard our prayers. Still. All week of configuration wasted. Hate that. Recovered data. Love that.<br /><br />Monday, Bloody Monday.

[Vincent M Ferrari]

My new laptop comes today, and this doesn't bode well for it 8O

[rlobrecht]

Time to buy a tape drive?

[Venturello]

You so lucky!!! congrats!!!!

:lol:

This is why I keep a usb hard state drive around my laptop all the time. On my desktop, I backup across several HD's and occasionally to cdr, but on a laptop... you never know. One bad drop, one bad spill, one lucky thief, etc etc...

Still, happy you could get your stuff back. Shame on the install, yep, hate then, when you at last have everything working 'perfect'.

[Andy Sjostrom]

Time to buy a tape drive?

Yes. Backups are not a joke.

[Bob Anderson]

Andy --

While I can't say I've shared your pain (thank the Computer Gods) I can say that my fear of having that happen has been growing.

My laptop is 2 yrs old this month... and I've got 25GB worth of work on this critter.. and the realization that hardware doesn't last forever scared me into looking for a reasonable backup solution... I found it!!!

I purchased Retrspect 6.0 Pro for Windows... which allows me to back up my laptop over my home network onto my desktop CPU's massive hard drives (and from there I can back up to DVD). I now rest peacefully knowing that I'm covered in the event of a true disaster (Unless, of course, my laptop and desktop both die at the same time... at which time I give up!)

Glad to hear you at least recovered your data.

[kwerner]

I had two hard drives die on my Dell laptop at work. Plus the power supply went bad too. All within the first 3 months. Then on my Dell desktop the floppy drive went bad, then the cdrom went bad. Both after a month or so of use. I don't think I'll be buying any Dell's with my own money.

[Mike Temporale]

That's Dell. I'm sorry but Dell laptops suck. Every single person I know that is working on a Dell Laptop has had soem sort of serious problem. From motherboards dying, broken left ctrl keys (on 3 different laptops), screens, and hard drives.

My step-brother was going back to school to do his MBA. I recommend against the schools special Dell package, and pointed him to a IBM ThinkPad. That was 2 years ago. He just finished, and called me up to thank me. It turns out that most of the people that got Dell's ended up with problems. His Thinkpad was a workhorse and never let him down. :mrgreen:

Personally, It's IBM and then Compaq when it comes to buying laptops. Desktops, well, ... you can't beat Dell on Desktops.

[Rob Borek]

I've had only minor problems with Dell notebooks - I've rarely had a hard drive fail (and since they're manufactured by companies that IBM would use for their notebooks as well - such as Hitachi - there's an equal chance that the IBM HD would die). I did receive my notebook with a dead CDRW drive, but that was fixed with a phone call... they shipped out a new CDRW drive (which I received the next day), and I shipped the old one back - with Dell paying the shipping both ways.

That said, I have a 3 year on-site warranty with CompleteCare on my notebook :D

[rfischer]

It amazes me that even us very technically savvy folks fail to do backups even when we know how important they are. I am just as guilty as the rest... :oops:

[Janak Parekh]

It amazes me that even us very technically savvy folks fail to do backups even when we know how important they are. I am just as guilty as the rest... :oops:
I hate to say it, but if you don't do backups you will eventually pay. Everyone who doesn't backup will eventually suffer data loss. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it will happen. (I was once in the same boat... a long time ago. :cry:)

My data is backed up to our organization's large tape jukebox every day, and all my important stuff is replicated across several machines.

Oh, and never underestimate the power of hitting a hard drive strategically, especially if it's suffering from mechanical spinup problems. (The scraping or clicking hard drives, on the other hand, usually don't benefit from this technique.)

Last, this probably has nothing to do with Dell, as they don't manufacture the hard drives.

Congrats on your miracle, Andy. I've been there, crying over a hard drive and beating it in frustration. It's the second scariest IT moment in my life, the first being when I left a laptop on a commuter train that wasn't mine. 8O (I managed to run back, 10 minutes later, and the train hadn't departed, fortunately.)

--janak

[Andy Sjostrom]

It amazes me that even us very technically savvy folks fail to do backups even when we know how important they are. I am just as guilty as the rest... :oops:

I know. I have now seen the light. Never more. I promise.

[rfischer]

I know. I have now seen the light. Never more. I promise.

Andy, I'm just glad that you got your data back! Most are not that lucky. I once lost my entire mp3 collection at home and had to start over with ripping of my 1000+ CDs. You can bet that I now treat my personal data on my home network with the same importance as data at work!

[Master O'Mayhem]

Andy,

Just two questions.

Did you partition your drive? I actually usually partition all my drives, C: windows and programs. E: files and data F:\ more filkes and data plus backup. This has saved me more than a few times. I use Partion Magic and it is workth every penny,

Were you able to try to reinstall windows? just curious

[Andy Sjostrom]

Andy,

Just two questions.

Did you partition your drive? I actually usually partition all my drives, C: windows and programs. E: files and data F:\ more filkes and data plus backup. This has saved me more than a few times. I use Partion Magic and it is workth every penny,

Were you able to try to reinstall windows? just curious

No, I didn't partition my drive. I like to keep everything in one partition. I am not sure I understand you question, though. Given that the the hard drive broke physically, I can't see how two partitions of the same broken hard drive would have saved me?

What backup solution do you use, master? If it is good enough for you then it surely will be good enough for me! 8)

[Cypher]

There are two groups of people, those who don't do backups yet and those who had a system fail and didn't have a backup :microwave:

But instead of recriminations, maybe this will serve as a wake up for those of you who haven't backed up your PPC yet. Two words: "Pocket Backup."

end of :soapbox:

[Arne Hess]

Just a simple "Ouch - sorry to hear"... :| Happy to hear that you found at least your data again! :D
But one thing makes me wonder!? You've fully loaded your Notebook with "2003" stuff but still Office XP? :roll:

[Master O'Mayhem]

Well since that drive physically broke, then partioning your drive would not have helped. I have managed to screw up windows and either reinstall into c:\ without worring about my data on e: and F:. I have also replaced the HDD in my laptop and mounted the other (problem) drive in the laptop to move the data. I have Ibm Thinkpads as my main laptops. IBM has a second HDD adapter for their ultrabay 2000. They also make 44 pin to 40 pin adapter cables that you can use to mount a laptop hdd in a PC enclosure ( This is another option) Since i have multiple laptops, I perfer to have my data synchronized. I synch data to a file store on my network using synchromagic. It allows me to customize the things i would like on each machine.. like favorites, my documents etc... just a few thoughts.... although pattitioning has helped me out more than once.

[WillyG]

Just came to think of i dont know the name of the computer god. Anyone who knows? :mrgreen:

[pelucidor]

I've had 10 laptops in 9 years with nary a problem. In every case except the last machine I've used Partition Magic to dual/triple boot various OSes (even OS2 at one point!) with all data on D: etc as Mayhem suggests (makes backup easy). I also keep a directory called INSTALL with every piece of software on the machine (inc. OS, all applications, downloads, patches etc) so everything can be reinstalled quickly and easily when the OS goes bad (doesn't protect from whole drive failure of course).

However my current laptop (new job) is controlled by the IT department (no changes allowed, all 40GB on C:, I am not even local admin) and I've had to live with it for 18 months (a new record for someone who used to get a new machine every 9 months or so). Last week the drive completely died and I was stricken with abject terror when I realized all the work and projects that would not get done... not only was there no backup (my bad) but the IT Dept could not get me a new drive for 10 days - I was down to using paper and a pen.

However when the new drive came in 10 days later, like Andy, a few swift kicks to the old drive got it working long enough to grab an image and put it on the new drive. A good reminder to not get too blaise about hardware and to make backups...

[qmrq]

Andy,

Just two questions.

Did you partition your drive? I actually usually partition all my drives, C: windows and programs. E: files and data F:\ more filkes and data plus backup. This has saved me more than a few times. I use Partion Magic and it is workth every penny,

Were you able to try to reinstall windows? just curious

This isn't smart. You lose most of the benefits of the NTFS file system by putting multiple partitions on one physical drive.

[Mike Temporale]

Last, this probably has nothing to do with Dell, as they don't manufacture the hard drives.

I know that the Hard Drives (along with a many other parts of the system) is not manufactured by Dell. However, it doesn't change my point about Dell laptops having more problems than other manufactures. The hard drive was built by another company but it was shipped to Dell, and handled by Dell, and ultimatly failed in Dell's machine.

All I'm saying is that Dell laptops seem to breakdown more often. Who's fault it is? That can be argued forever.

[thanos255]

What does everyone use for backups with XP?
One that acutally works and restores well??


I am finding everytime I try I use MS backup that came with XP it tells me I have run out of room, when I know I have not. I think it has something to do with the 4.7 gb limit.

Thanks
Thanos

[dacs29]

This isn't smart. You lose most of the benefits of the NTFS file system by putting multiple partitions on one physical drive.
I've never heard this before. What kind of performance loss is there? I have two NTFS partitions on one physical HD and I've had no problems so far.

David

[Master O'Mayhem]

Andy,

Just two questions.

Did you partition your drive? I actually usually partition all my drives, C: windows and programs. E: files and data F:\ more filkes and data plus backup. This has saved me more than a few times. I use Partion Magic and it is workth every penny,

Were you able to try to reinstall windows? just curious

This isn't smart. You lose most of the benefits of the NTFS file system by putting multiple partitions on one physical drive.


It has saved me more than once. If the benefits lost you mention are namely performance, then I will take a bit of degradation for the ability to bring my data back. Also i parttion so i can reinstall windows every few months witout worring about my data partitions.

[Jonathan1]

This isn't smart. You lose most of the benefits of the NTFS file system by putting multiple partitions on one physical drive.



*scratches head* How so? It’s actually a smart idea to partition out your system between system and data storage. I myself have 3 partitions. System (NTFS) Data (NTFS) Image (Fat32) I store a ghost image, aprox 3GB, of a clean install with all my core apps on the image partition. Then store all my data in…no points for guessing….the data partition which leaves the system partition open for reghosting any time I feel like it. For data integrity I have a 2 fold system. Offline file shares for my “My Documents” directory that goes on my raided server and a script that runs once a week that backs up all info from the data partition into a newly created directory on my server that goes by the format data[date]. Once a month I have a second script that runs on the server that purges the previous months data and all that is backed up on used DLT tape drive weekly of which one rotation makes it into my safety deposit box once a month.

[Master O'Mayhem]

This isn't smart. You lose most of the benefits of the NTFS file system by putting multiple partitions on one physical drive.


What are the benefits that we are losing due to partioning? thanks

[bdeli]

ArgHH! Same old story happening over again! Andy, I can feel your pain!!!

I had the same thing happening to me on my Gateway laptop! Now I always keep in a second hd in the multibay slot for backups (I use Stomp Backup MyPC for Backups) .

That said, if I loose my laptop I will defintately :mecry: . So the new option considering is to get an external Firewire drive to keep all my backups since burning on CDR takes ages - let alone 4 CDR's per backup!

[Brad Adrian]

...I was down to using paper and a pen...
I'm not sure I'm familiar with such things.

[NeoAxim]

Here is my experience on being an idiot and not backing up, at least consistently, the data of my main machine. About a year ago my main everyday master machine's HD bit the dust. I tried many methods to attempt to recover the data off that drive which included but not limited too my all important PST file, approx 2000 MP3's which I had no desire to re-rip off my CD's which have made their way into storage since, many many documents, software, etc. All with no luck. I had some backup images of the data but at the time of the crash they were approximately 5 months out of date and were lacking in much of the more important data I had lost. For the most part I moved on and rebuilt my data store but I always held out hope for a solution so I packed away that bad HD (which in case you were wondering had severe corruptuption, in fact every attempt to access was met with a Format prompt).

That was about 8 months ago, then one day about a month ago a friend suggested a product called GETDATABACK for NTFS (there is a FAT version also). He said he used it on a drive and it recovered all his data. I was skeptical but gave it a shot. Dug out that old drive, mounted it in a working machine and let the app run loose.
Well believe it or not after about a week of letting it run ALL my data was saved. Not 50% or 75%, ALL of it. I have to say this product worked great. Some of the data had its own issues (PST's were corrput and required some fixing by Scanpst, ID3 tags were a mess, etc) but with a few more software solutions I was able to get all that precious and once lost data back and in working order.

So if you have a corrupt drive tucked away in the hopes that one day there is a cryogenic process to restore your data back to life gives GetDataBAck a shot. Who knows it might work for you.
http://www.runtime.org/gdb.htm

Moral of the story – Back Up!! And often!!

[Andy Sjostrom]

I also keep a directory called INSTALL with every piece of software on the machine (inc. OS, all applications, downloads, patches etc) so everything can be reinstalled quickly and easily when the OS goes bad (doesn't protect from whole drive failure of course).

Do that too. I have c:\Applications and c:\Pocket PC Applications for installs of apps. I finally gave up my twenty years old c:\Data in favor of c:\...\My Documents. So, in essence I only backed up these three folders -- or directories as they were called back then!

[mjnh]

After my first hard drive got bad sector that wasted my whole day work I start doing backup every day. I am using an USB 120G drive, the fastest solution I can find, and Backup Magic software (very cheap, but works well). I put a schedule task in XP to mirror all my data at night. All that stuff cost no more than $250, but give me peace knowing that all my data, photos, mp3 are safe.

[Jason Dunn]

I once lost my entire mp3 collection at home and had to start over with ripping of my 1000+ CDs. You can bet that I now treat my personal data on my home network with the same importance as data at work!

Me too! Man did that ever suck losing all the MP3s I had ripped....HUGE time drain to do it again. Now I burn data CDs full of the MP3s that I rip so that if I do lose the drive with all the MP3s, I just copy them back over. Of course, that doesn't save the folder categories.....8O Hmm, it might be time for one of those 250 GB drives... :D

[Jason Dunn]

Andy,

Just two questions.

Did you partition your drive? I actually usually partition all my drives, C: windows and programs. E: files and data F:\ more filkes and data plus backup. This has saved me more than a few times. I use Partion Magic and it is workth every penny,

Were you able to try to reinstall windows? just curious

No, I didn't partition my drive. I like to keep everything in one partition. I am not sure I understand you question, though. Given that the the hard drive broke physically, I can't see how two partitions of the same broken hard drive would have saved me?

It wouldn't have - that tactic only helps you isolate your data from your OS partition, so if Windows goes belly up on you (much more common than hard drive failure), you can re-install everything and not worry about having to salvage your data.

I feel your pain man, I feel your pain...

[Janak Parekh]

The main benefit you lose here is speed. When your system is idle, NTFS will relocate files that are often written to/read from to the inside of the HDD's physical platters where seek times are the lowest. Inversely, files that are read from to load applications, along with any other large files are arranged so that the files are contiguous. These are also placed on the outside of the physical platters where transfer speeds are the greatest.
It's not that simple, though. File access patterns varies widely between data and applications. Relocation in NTFS is primarily designed to improve DLL loading. XP will apparently optimize just the first partition, which is fine if you store data on the 2nd.

There are also performance benefits by having multiple partitions: the structures on each disk are smaller and CHKDSK takes less time if your system partition is all that has to be checked, for example.

I agree having many partitions is not a good idea, but I still don't believe that two partitions is a performance penalty. Having said that, Microsoft does recommend one partition for XP.

--janak

[rlobrecht]

Just came to think of i dont know the name of the computer god. Anyone who knows? :mrgreen:

Linus? Bill?

[JMountford]

I can say I have hard drive crashes way too many times to count. It is par for the course when you are using salvaged and used drives peacemail to make up a system. I rarely do backups. I do use multiple drives or partitions now adays. On top of that I have found several great tools for fixing drives and slavaging data. I know you are going to ask what and I really do not feel like opening those apps to get names. I know one is an Intel hard drive servicing tool.

I use my A= skills, stay calm and more often than not get everything back to perfect in less than a day. Heck I usually wipe my drive every few months and reinstall what I know I use just to keep things cleen and smooth.

[qmrq]

I can say I have hard drive crashes way too many times to count. It is par for the course when you are using salvaged and used drives peacemail to make up a system. I rarely do backups. I do use multiple drives or partitions now adays. On top of that I have found several great tools for fixing drives and slavaging data. I know you are going to ask what and I really do not feel like opening those apps to get names. I know one is an Intel hard drive servicing tool.

I use my A= skills, stay calm and more often than not get everything back to perfect in less than a day. Heck I usually wipe my drive every few months and reinstall what I know I use just to keep things cleen and smooth.

"A="? That some cert that I missed? :P

[Jason Dunn]

I'm a backup software fiend, and I've tried so many solutions. Here's what I use:

For daily, scheduled backups: www.handybackup.com
For partition cloning across a network: www.acronis.com (TrueImage)

[rfischer]

Me too! Man did that ever suck losing all the MP3s I had ripped....HUGE time drain to do it again. Now I burn data CDs full of the MP3s that I rip so that if I do lose the drive with all the MP3s, I just copy them back over.

Yeah, I hear ya Jason. I had "some" CDs of MP3s because I have a Kenwood MP3 deck in my car and I keep entire collections of a few bands like U2, Dave Matthews, Led Zeppelin & Aimee Mann, but that didn't cover even half of what I had on my HD. Maybe it's time to buy a DVD burner. I even saw a car head unit in a Crutchfield catalouge (from Sony I think) that will play MP3s burned on a DVD.....I'd only have to keep about 3 discs in my car! Hmmmmm...... :D

[JoeThielen]

Let's not forget the LAST RESORT.

Even if a hard drive stops spinning, the drive can be taken apart and the actual disk platters can be placed into another drive, resulting in the data being restored (most of it).

But it's VERY VERY VERY expensive. However, I can tell you that it's saved me more than once (yes, I've needed it more than once).

I've used ONTRACK before, and they do a great job. VERY expensive, but if your data is worth it, then this is definately worth it.

The first time we used it was on a 386 running a SCSI drive running SCO Xenix. The tape backup went out years before, and I was just getting started on this stuff, so I didn't have a concern for backup. If a computer has been running for 10 years, it's gonna run for 10 more, right?
:oops:

The last time it happened was with a laptop I wrote all my software on. Yep, that's right. I wasn't properly backing it up.

Since then data redundancy is VERY high on my list of damn near every thing I do.

[Tom Eichers]

I was at a customers site many years ago replacing a hdd in a Raid 5 setup. Hot swap drive no big deal, pull the dead drive, reach for the new one and a second drive fails (red) at that moment. Damn. Lucky I had a second drive for another call next day, so replaced both, told the sys admin what happened and they would need to restore from there backups, what backup he said. Oh man, did not want to hear that. They had a tape drive attached but had never done any backups in 5 years, and this server held everybodys data, and all the software they used. Ended up installing NT, and Office and a ton of other goodies, of course they did not have the programs anymore, the admin guy and me went to the local software store and bought a couple thousand worth of software. Then setup a backup solution with off site storage. After that mess they were rabid about backups.

[kevdawg2003]

that is such a sad story... :cry:

[thanos255]

Jason,

Do you find that backup program you mentioned to be the best one to work with XP?

I am looking for not only a great backup program but one that will let me restore my computer just as easily.
I am open to ALL suggestions.

I had a scare with 14 Trojan litmus.B and KillAv virus's last night and was able to kill them all, but now I am on the hunt for protection.

For the record is was my fault. I left my DCC IRC accept filters off for ONE night by mistake while getting something from a friend.

Geezzzzz....

Anyway
Thanks
Thanos