Tiny Tablet PCs?

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.com.com/2100-1005-996962.html?tag=fd_lede2_hed' target='_blank'>http://news.com.com/2100-1005-99696...ag=fd_lede2_hed</a><br /><br /></div>Move over, <a href="http://www.oqo.com">OQO</a>, some competition might be knocking on your door.<br /><br />"The shape is shifting for tablet PCs as manufacturers test computer buyers' tolerance for offbeat designs. Manufacturers are experimenting with the form and size of tablet PCs, portable computers that let users write on the screen and draw pictures. Toshiba, for instance, is working on a slate-style tablet design that's about the size of a large postcard, while Intel researchers have put together what they call the 'micro tablet,' a full-fledged PC that is about the size of two credit cards."<br /><br />We're slowly seeing convergence in a variety of devices -- small PCs versus powerful handhelds -- and it's interesting to think about what the effect on the market will be. I have a feeling that these mini tablet PCs will make it to the market before the OQO, which, sadly, is so far an example of the dangers of hyping too early.

[midtoad]

Move over, OQO (http://www.oqo.com), some competition might be knocking on your door.

1st post!

Neither the OQO nor the Antelope seem to be available for sale so I don't see how consumers are going to try out this shape factor in the near future.

The Antelope looks initially interesting until I read that the battery life will be (sic) 2 hours! What were they thinking?

There are a few other "super Pocket PCs" like the Viewsonic model, but sadly they all seem to be using 206 MHz processors. Why trade DOWN from a Pocket PC or Palm unit, especially when such units are almost as expensive as current low-end notebooks?

I'd be very keen on a unit with a 5-6" screen, VGA or 800x600 resolution, 1 GB CF card, WiFi and Bluetooth (to connect to my GPRS phone), and USB host port so I can connect an external monitor, keyboard or other device. Such a unit should allow seamless transfer of files from the desktop with NO CONVERSIONS. Maybe I will have to go to a Linux-powered device for that, since most applications on the Palm and PocketPC still insist on format conversion.

BTW, links to two large-size PocketPCs:
The Faucon wireless (http://www.handheldcanada.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MS0066&Category_Code=_Faucon&Store_Code=H) and Viewsonic SuperPDA (http://www.handheldcanada.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VS0001&Category_Code=_hViewSonic&Store_Code=H).

[kfluet]

The OQO machine is still vapour isn't it?

If someone actually does get a small machine out that runs XP Tablet edition, I am sure that it will give the high end PocketPC's some competition. I don't, however, think that it will be the same situation as the WinCE HPC vs full laptop that happened a few years ago.

Remember all those full size HPC's? Once you could get a laptop for only a little more, the market for HPC's evaporated. Who wants a crippled WinCE device when they can have the full desktop versions of things.

But XP is really not friendly with 640x480 screens, let alone smaller screens. And squeezing anything more than 640x480 into a 4" screen and users won't be able to read text without a magnifying glass. And anything much larger than 4" won't fit in your pocket easily, and isn't really competition for a true PDA.

So:

Tablet PC's replacing PocketPC in situations like needing contact info and reminders outside of work (going to dinner and a movie for example)? No.

Tablet PC's getting nice and small so you can walk around the office with them in your hand or throw them in your briefcase without a second thought? Absolutely.

[Janak Parekh]

Tablet PC's replacing PocketPC in situations like needing contact info and reminders outside of work (going to dinner and a movie for example)? No.

Tablet PC's getting nice and small so you can walk around the office with them in your hand or throw them in your briefcase without a second thought? Absolutely.
Agreed, absolutely. My point about convergence was more that we're seeing that the size is increasingly less of a factor between different class devices -- rather, it's the basic approach to the device. I won't give up my Pocket PC anytime soon, because I can't resume, run Outlook, look something up, and suspend within 2-3 seconds on a Tablet PC.

--janak

[splintercell]

I won't give up my Pocket PC anytime soon, because I can't resume, run Outlook, look something up, and suspend within 2-3 seconds on a Tablet PC.

Hmm, my Tablet PC can resume in about 2-3 seconds, I can use a full featured version of Outlook to look things up, and it can suspend in 2-3 seconds. Seems fast enough for me.

[jefito]

1st post!


And?!?!? This isn't Slashdot, you know (thank goodness for that).



BTW, links to two large-size PocketPCs:
The Faucon wireless and Viewsonic SuperPDA .


Neither the Faucon nor the ViewSonic units are PocketPCs.

[Janak Parekh]

Hmm, my Tablet PC can resume in about 2-3 seconds, I can use a full featured version of Outlook to look things up, and it can suspend in 2-3 seconds. Seems fast enough for me.
You just made my point. ;) You're taking 5-7 seconds just to resume and open Outlook. A Pocket PC takes a fraction of a second to turn on and open up Contacts. It doesn't sound like a big difference, but put the two side-by-side on a street corner. :)

By all means, I wouldn't dismiss the tablet PC as a result of that; I just believe they're for different applications.

--janak

[Don Tolson]

I agree with Janak...the important difference between Pocket PC and Tablet PC O/S is the 'instant' on feature. While I was one of the first in my office to get one of the sub-notebook laptops (weighs less than 2 lbs), it still isn't fast enough in 'turning on' to support me while I'm out in the field. From what I've seen of the Table PC O/S, it seems to be just a version of XP with pen writing support, etc. It still takes a considerable time from blank to usable.

When doing a quick look-up of my schedule, etc. it needs to be very fast. Otherwise, I just won't use it.

What I REALLY want is a Pocket PC with a build in keyboard and a screen which can be physically rotated 90 degrees so you can use in it landscape mode. HP had something neat like this demo'd once, I believe, with a fold-out keyboard.

[brntcrsp]

I think something like the Samsung Nexio will do worlds to bridge the gap between the pocket pc and the tablet pc. Instant on with greater to access all the features of the CE .Net environment.

[Hugh Nano]

Much as I love my Pocket PC, if someone can come up with a mini-Tablet with USB and monitor-out at a price I can afford, I would go for that over a new Pocket PC any day! Or, conversely, I would be ecstatic to see a more stand-alone and powerful Pocket PC with a higher-resolution display and with standard USB and monitor ports built-in. Either way, I'm looking forward to the convergence!

[jnunn]

The CNET author should learn his program before he writes a review or at least differentiate between the PPC and the antiquated Palm. He says that you canot turn off the word suggestion for FITALY:

"Plus, Fitaly suggests words as you type, increasing your writing speed even more (unfortunately, you can't turn off this feature)."

I have been using FITALY for almost two years on my iPAQ 3600 and turned off word suggestion on day 1 and turned it off again when FITALY gave me a free upgrade. I will turn it off again when I upgrade to the H2200 this summer.

[splintercell]

It doesn't sound like a big difference, but put the two side-by-side on a street corner. :)

Fortunately, I don't lead such a rushed life as to have to do hurried data lookups on street corners. :D

But yes, different devices for different purposes, but it'll eventually be the Tablets closing the gap by becoming lighter and turning on faster, and not PDAs getting substantially larger screens and full-featured applications.

[Newsboy]

I'd be very keen on a unit with a 5-6" screen, VGA or 800x600 resolution, 1 GB CF card, WiFi and Bluetooth (to connect to my GPRS phone), and USB host port so I can connect an external monitor, keyboard or other device. Such a unit should allow seamless transfer of files from the desktop with NO CONVERSIONS. Maybe I will have to go to a Linux-powered device for that, since most applications on the Palm and PocketPC still insist on format conversion.

My Intermec 6651 HPC has a 7.4" 800x480 screen, a 512 MB CF card, WiFi, Bluetooth, and a USB port for keyboards, mice, and a floppy drive. File conversion is done automatically, and the device can save Word97 and Excel97 versions of files from the "save as" menu. With the PCMCIA slot, you can use a 5 GB Toshiba PC Card hard drive if needed. It can be used with a full size keyboard via USB, or use the built-in conventional keyboard. Though it's small, once used to it, it's easily touch typable. Or flip it around into tablet mode and use the handwriting recognition, your choice.

Remember all those full size HPC's? Once you could get a laptop for only a little more, the market for HPC's evaporated. Who wants a crippled WinCE device when they can have the full desktop versions of things.

At full retail, the Intermec is $1400. I bought mine for $350 on Ebay. New. At that price, why the heck would I buy a laptop? :D

Hmm, my Tablet PC can resume in about 2-3 seconds, I can use a full featured version of Outlook to look things up, and it can suspend in 2-3 seconds. Seems fast enough for me.

Yes, but on suspend, how fast does the battery drain? On "suspend" (which the Intermec and all PocketPCs always are), it lasts over two weeks before the main battery runs down. With the unit on, continuous use, I get 8 hours of battery life with the WiFi off, 6 hours with it on. With the backlight on full bright. There is only one Tablet PC that even comes close to that!

Much as I love my Pocket PC, if someone can come up with a mini-Tablet with USB and monitor-out at a price I can afford, I would go for that over a new Pocket PC any day! Or, conversely, I would be ecstatic to see a more stand-alone and powerful Pocket PC with a higher-resolution display and with standard USB and monitor ports built-in. Either way, I'm looking forward to the convergence!

Again, the Intermec has monitor out and USB built-in! This thing is incredible. It never ceases to turn heads and cause whiplash, even at the tech university I'm getting my master's degree at. It has much of the functionality of a TabletPC (handwriting recognition, tablet mode or "laptop" mode, built-in keyboard, built-in video/still camera, etc...) and yet has longer battery life, and a MUCH smaller form factor. At just 1.9 lbs. and 8.5" x 5.5" x 1" thick, it's smaller than the average hardcover romance novel. It's small enough that I actually use it! That's something I don't think I could say of a conventional laptop, or even many of the new larger TabletPCs.

If the Intermec had been priced more reasonably, say $500-700, I think it would have taken the market by storm, and still could. But alas, the HPC is doomed to market failure by Microsoft. I just hope TabletPCs are this much smaller when the Intermec finally wears out and has to be replaced!

[Kati Compton]

Much as I love my Pocket PC, if someone can come up with a mini-Tablet with USB and monitor-out at a price I can afford, I would go for that over a new Pocket PC any day!

I think I'd be with you on this part. I wouldn't mind a mini-tablet and separate phone with PIM features. The phone would be instant-on for the stuff I need quick access to. The tablet would be more highly featured and powerful for work/play.

This would, for me, work with my desire to have PDA & phone be two separate units. The phone actually would take the low-level PDA duties that benefit from instant-on (which is fine, and I don't feel I need too much screen real-estate for that), and the tablet would handle the tasks that I do feel I need more screen & power for (games, notes, mobile computing, etc).

[sharmahw1]

Has anyone seen any info on if and when this device will be available in the US. To me this seems to be the best combo for a PocketPC with Keyboard and with a Bluetooth enabled headset could be used as a GSM/CDMA phone. Can not find any info on its availablity :cry: :cry:

[Janak Parekh]

Much as I love my Pocket PC, if someone can come up with a mini-Tablet with USB and monitor-out at a price I can afford, I would go for that over a new Pocket PC any day!
I think I'd be with you on this part. I wouldn't mind a mini-tablet and separate phone with PIM features. The phone would be instant-on for the stuff I need quick access to. The tablet would be more highly featured and powerful for work/play.
Well, to each their own. For me, the phone has a terrible PIM -- it's near-unusable -- and I've used several different phones. Second, as kfluet indicated, try using Outlook 2002 on a 4" display 8O

I'll be watching closely, though.

--janak

[Kati Compton]

Well, to each their own. For me, the phone has a terrible PIM -- it's near-unusable -- and I've used several different phones.

Well, obviously I'd require a *good* one. ;) Since this is all hypothetical for me anyway, I feel I can make that stipulation.

[D.psi]

See for me it's all about when/where the device is? Are you going to spend the rest of your life lugging around a tablet PC? P'bly not. Are you going to have a tablet PC as you're writting your columns, going to customer sites, school, meetings, etcs... P'bly yes.

The usage will depend on where the device is at the time that it's required. Yes tiny tablet PC's would be nice. Would I lug a 1.5 lbs unit around to a movie? No. I would on the other hand have my lightweight PPC with me, and play a quick game of bubblets as I wait for the previews to be done.

Tablet PC's and handhelds won't compete until they have similar form/weight factors. Some of their attributes may compete, but overall their usage patterns are completely different. I currently use my Jornada in a way that might be similar to laptop/tablet pc usage. The keyboard is sufficient, however the transcriber capability is handicapped due to the small screen... I have a hard time getting everything down smoothly.

Where I personally see the tablet PC eeking away market share is on the desktop side. A tablet PC with a decent docking setup could readily replace laptop/desktop for me. And that is where I'd ante up the dough.

That's where I personally think the market is going. I may be wrong. What we have to remember as early adopters/ technologically savy/ geeks is that by and large commercially we are a small portion of the market place. We may provide initial guidance, but if the population at large doesn't accept the technology where is it going to go?

D.psi

[handheldplanet]

Newsboy and D.psi are right.

Manufacturers got it very close to right with the HandheldPC (I have used and REALLY like the Jornada 720 design) EXCEPT for price.

It's funny, but everyone that really wants an advanced Pocket PC usually lists all the features that are available in Handheld PCs like; integrated keyboard, larger screen, longer battery life, instant on, multiple expansion options (for wireless, memory, etc.) and still highly portable. Now, those that are looking for highly portable tablet pcs are listing the features that HPCs have offered all along.

The main difference between a highly portable tablet pc and a handheld pc is desktop replacement (with port replicator or expasion base) vs. syncronization. I personally would rather not have to duplicate software purchases (and I think the market agrees with me on this). I'd rather only have one html editing program, one graphics editing program, one email client/PIM, one word processor, one spreadsheet program, etc.

My recommendation is this: manufacturers should make an INTEGRATED DEVICE - something that will run like a PC (with arcitecture that will run all of my current favorite programs - not just scaled down or "syncable" versions of them), but has a flash-based OS for instant on and powersaving modes. This way, if I need to access my files quickly, I can have instant on capabilities, and battery life would be excellent.

I'm not sure if it can be done. Since I'm no techy, I'm not sure if architecturally this is feasable, but I really dont think the market will be satisfied until this is a reality. Wouldn't that be nice? We could have the best of both worlds!!!

[Jason Dunn]

I think something like the Samsung Nexio will do worlds to bridge the gap between the pocket pc and the tablet pc. Instant on with greater to access all the features of the CE .Net environment.

But the problem with that device is that there's no software ecosystem around it - no developers focused on creating apps, no support from Microsoft to promote the platform, few sites talking about it, etc. I *love* the idea, but a device can't exist all unto itself as a platform...witness the Casio BE-300. 8O

[rlobrecht]

My recommendation is this: manufacturers should make an INTEGRATED DEVICE - something that will run like a PC (with arcitecture that will run all of my current favorite programs - not just scaled down or "syncable" versions of them), but has a flash-based OS for instant on and powersaving modes. This way, if I need to access my files quickly, I can have instant on capabilities, and battery life would be excellent.


This would cost a small fortune. The Windows directory on my machine is 1.7 GB, and I just reloaded the OS, so it doesn't have a whole bunch of garbage. I would think you'd need at least 4 - 5 GB of flash for the OS and apps.

[handheldplanet]

Then what Microsoft should be doing is shrinking down the OS just for this purpose. As for the cost, it only costs a couple hundred bucks for 1GB of laptop RAM, couldn't manufacturers use similar memory to store the OS? The programs and other memory could be stored on 2.5" hard drives just like on normal laptops.

[D.psi]

HandheldPlanet wrote:
As for the cost, it only costs a couple hundred bucks for 1GB of laptop RAM, couldn't manufacturers use similar memory to store the OS?

I doubt that you could use RAM. The reason to go to flash is that the memory is not lost when you lose power. I would guess that typical RAM would be too power intensive to allow the OS to be used this way permanently, and then with power loss, away goes the OS. This is not desireable. Imagine having to reload 1GB of data using ActiveSync... 8O

Using a hard drive for storage on a handheld? Well we're looking a relatively fast response times, and long term battery effects. In both cases, the hard drive fails. :cry:

The more you consider the issues, the better the current implementation of the PPC is. It's not perfect by any means but it is adequate to the task.

D.psi

[Janak Parekh]

I doubt that you could use RAM. The reason to go to flash is that the memory is not lost when you lose power.
... or at least low-power DRAM, which is what is in current PDAs and is much more expensive than regular DRAM.

--janak