HP, Dell developing Microsoft Smartphones

[Jason Dunn]

"Both Dell and Hewlett Packard appear to be making forays into the Microsoft Smartphone arena. A report said that both companies have asked a number of Taiwanese manufacturers to give them quotes for phones, said Digitimes. Those include HTC – which makes the Orange slow booter, Mitac, Compal, Asustek, Quanta and Inventec, the newspaper claimed. But it's unclear whether these companies would accept quotations to make Smartphones, given the low price tag on these devices."<br /><br />The importance and long-range impact of news like this can't be underestimated - it's key to Microsoft's attack on the phone market. Microsoft has commoditized the market, very much in the same what they did with the PC, drastically reducing the time and resources it takes to bring a phone to market. Nokia isn't just going to be competing against Orange and other carriers - they'll be up against anyone with a brand and the desire to make a phone. Today that might be HP and Dell. Tomorrow it might be the Chicago Bulls and Burger King. Think it sounds crazy? Just wait and see what happens over the next 24 months...

[heov]

hmm... next 24 months, eh?

when will we see any smartphone 2k2 in the US? None of our local carierrs have them yet here (verizon, sprint, cingular, and tmobile).

I have a lot of hope for the smartphone platform (ms smartphone that is), but i just don't see this sector of the market where MS will dominate, especially in just 2 years.

i mean, the same thing happened w/ PPC 3 years ago (april 1st i believe it was when ms announced ppc; was there a post on that - 3 years birthday :)) everyone said it'll take over the market by now, and although PPC grew at an incredible rate, it never caught up to palm yet... and at the rate sony and palm or developing, and lowering their prices, i don't think PPC is going to catch them... yet they will stay @ their current status... but who knows. Maybe palm sg will go out of business and palm source will be bought by sony.

Another thing that we should consider besides symbian in the smartphone market is palm. There are quite a few smartphones and wireless/always on devices that use palm os, but i personally don't see that going anywhere.

And to conclude, i've got a question :) is there a Smartphone FAQ thing out there w/ an overview and stuff besides the MS site and CEWindows.net? Thanks!

[NeilE]

You will see Smartphones in North America this year. I can't say specific timelines, but definitely this year.

If you're interested in an FAQ about the software itself I wrote one for Club Smartphone, although it's probably only useful if you have a phone: http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/smartphone/club/support/spfaqeu.asp. There are a ton of fan sites out for Smartphone, a list is available at the bottom of http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/smartphone/club/links/default.asp.

You might want to check out some of the Smartphone MVP sites: www.coolsmartphone.com, www.modaco.com and www.smartphony.org.

Hope this helps!

[Seraph1024]

They can make all the phones they want. With the mindframe of the US consumers, they will never hit as nice as the rest of the world.

Reason: People what the cheapest stuff in the US. They don't care about the quality or the benifits. If it is free, we'll take it.

:(

L

[ricksfiona]

They can make all the phones they want. With the mindframe of the US consumers, they will never hit as nice as the rest of the world.

Reason: People what the cheapest stuff in the US. They don't care about the quality or the benifits. If it is free, we'll take it.

:(

L

Oh yeah. Sad, but true.

I'm glad the bigger companies are finally jumping into the scene. Let's see if we can get one of these companies to include Bluetooth into their future Smartphones!

[ARW]

You will see Smartphones in North America this year. I can't say specific timelines, but definitely this year.

But will there be one for CDMA, specifically for Verizon?

Trying to resist the Kyo 7135...must not give in to temptation...

[PhatCohiba]

I'd have to agree with Jason. What a MS smartphone will do is provide greater features at a lower pricepoint. As we've seen with the Dell PPC.

Dell doesn't have to write system software and can pay ms a license, focus only on low price hardware and a streamlined distribution channel.

If you're a carrier, which model do you like:

a) subsidizing phones sales, where the phone are now more software then hardware. The phone vendors can't seem to get the software right.

b) selling lower cost phone, which should require lower subsidies, provide better quality software, more applications. streamlined hardware sales, etc...

Does anyone really believe that within a couple of revisions, microsoft would have the best software in the phone arena? MS has shown again and again, an ability to produce the higher quality software then any other major software developer. I'd expect them to spank the floor with most cell phone / software vendors.


-jb

[lmtuxinc]

Bring on the Dell Smartphone for Sprint!

[Mike Temporale]

Dell is getting into the cell phone business eh?! Wow, Nokia better watch out. We've all seen how what Dell did to the PDA market.

This is great news. I look forward to seeing what HP and Dell can offer in this field.

[mememe]

Think it sounds crazy? Just wait and see what happens over the next 24 months...

The mobile handset marketplace is a beast all unto itself. Primarily, this is due the actual cost of the hardware being subsidized by the provider of the network. To think that MS doesn't want to drive incremental margin increases (this is why they are trying to enter a new market) is not viewpoint that would be taken by those dealing with MS and various carriers.

Network providers don't want to continue to subsidize hardware to the same extent as they have in the past. Driving economies of scale is something that is a benefit to the entire industry, but to think that an MS smartphone platform will, in fact, be cheaper than what Nokia/SE/Siemens brings to the market is a falicy.

To that point this battle for MS supremacy in the mobile handset market will be long, hard, and (ultimately) one they probably won't dominate. This is not to say that they wont make good inroads, but... it aint the same as a PC. Just look at the efforts on the PPC and XBOX front..

[Seraph1024]

I wish I am wrong. But knowing the mobile phone industry (almost from the inside -- once worked for motorola and live a few minutes away from the HQ), it is a whole new market for someone (it does not matter if you are MS) to jump into.

The US consumer market wants cheap phones. They will take 4 $50 dollar phones that they have to replace every year vs. a 200 buck phone that will last you for that time. With MS phone, HP or DELL or JohnDoe can make the phone but look at the cost. You have to pay for the cost of phone, licence fees to MS and such, you will not find a 50 bucks SPV in the US. Not for now anyways. Also, I have not have my hands on the SPV yet so I can not tell but IMO, Ericsson has the best phones, followed by Nokia then Motorola when it comes to features and such.

I am excited about the news but.... I am not too sure if it is going to be a success story. MS made a chordless phone once. I love it. But they don't have it anymore... I wonder why...

Just a thought

[krisbrown]

MS are going to have to make some big changes to sell their phones, do a search for Smartphone apps and then do one for Symbian apps, there is no comparison, the smartphone software database is practically dead.
My new 7650 is in a different league to the SPV, it beats it hands down in EVERY respect, even though the screen is only 7000 colours it looks better than the SPV screen while surfing. It's much quicker, easier to use, has hundreds more software apps for it, is a far better phone, sounds better, reception is better, has a built in rather than clip on camera(which is the most useless way of having a camera) has caller display, a quick picture taking facility(the smartphone one is so poor as to be useless in the real world) it has video recording software built in, and to cap it all it's an old phone, the new one's are even faster and smaller. I got it for £50, the SPV cost me £150.
Sorry Jas, but that's the way it is, you've got one yourself, you must see it's shortfalls.

[cyp]

Quotes from Nokia's new C.I.O Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf:


"The Smartphone developers are committing suicide by the hundreds on the gates of Nokia... Be assured, Nokia is safe, protected. Nokias are heroes."

"As our leader Jorma Ollila said, 'God is grilling their stomachs in hell."

"There are no Smartphone developers in Europe. Never!

"Nokia's phone designers and his great forces gave the Smartphones a lesson which will not be forgotten by history. Truly."

"They've not been able to control any Nokia developers. We're waging war against this snake and we will be victorious."

B. Gates, this man is a monopolist, and we will see that he is brought to trial.
We're giving him a real lesson today. Heavy doesn't accurately describe the level of casualties we have inflicted.

Their rear is blocked.
I blame pocketpcthougths - they are marketing for the Smartphones!
Just look carefully; I only want you to look carefully. Do not repeat the lies of liars. Do not become like them. Once again, I blame pocketpcthougths before it ascertains what takes place. Please, make sure of what you say and do not play such a role.

No, I am not scared and neither should you be!

We are in control.

[PlayAgain?]

MS are going to have to make some big changes to sell their phones, do a search for Smartphone apps and then do one for Symbian apps, there is no comparison, the smartphone software database is practically dead.
My new 7650 is in a different league to the SPV, it beats it hands down in EVERY respect, even though the screen is only 7000 colours it looks better than the SPV screen while surfing. It's much quicker, easier to use, has hundreds more software apps for it, is a far better phone, sounds better, reception is better, has a built in rather than clip on camera(which is the most useless way of having a camera) has caller display, a quick picture taking facility(the smartphone one is so poor as to be useless in the real world) it has video recording software built in, and to cap it all it's an old phone, the new one's are even faster and smaller. I got it for £50, the SPV cost me £150.
Sorry Jas, but that's the way it is, you've got one yourself, you must see it's shortfalls.

I agree with you in almost all points, but what Symbian needs to realise is the power of spin and half truths. For example, Microsoft announced that they had sold hundreds of thousands of SPV units, saying that they were basing their figures on those produced by Orange. What Microsoft hadn't pointed out was that Orange's figures were based on 'SPV Type' phones, of which the Microsoft phone contributed a small percentage.

An area where I disagree is that you say the 7650 beats the SPV in all areas. There are things which the SPV has which I wish the 7650 had, such as expandable memory, however, the 3650 addresses this and more. Of course, many here have said that they don't consider the Series 60 platforms as a smartphone (kind of like how the Iraqi Information Minister not considering America a threat) - heck if they want to pretend it's not there, good for them!

At the moment, Symbian is winning the battle. As you said, the software being released for the phone is amazing. I never thought I'd be able to play and record video on a phone, play 3D games, IM chat, star gaze, control my TV, have a basic quasi-gps tool and PDA functionality, all in a small phone! Excellent! But Microsoft will begin to catch up and may even release a phone that works! So for Symbian's coalition to ignore the Microsoft regime would be foolish in the extreme, they have much more resource for 'information distribution' and are not afraid to bend the truth.

[Jonathan1]

I'll pass on a smartphone but I will take a Dell Pocket PC: Phone Edition. :)

it's key to Microsoft's attack on the phone market
Tisk tisk Jason. You make it sound like MS is the bad guy. They don’t go to war. They assimilate you. :robot: :wink:

[Jason Dunn]

I have a lot of hope for the smartphone platform (ms smartphone that is), but i just don't see this sector of the market where MS will dominate, especially in just 2 years.

It's pretty amazing - I can predict, with almost perfect accuracy, which people will post responses whenever I make a pro-Microsoft comment. Utterly predictable. :roll:

To be clear, I didn't say Microsoft would dominate in 24 months. Good grief, it will take years and years...and who knows how much market share they'll grab? They're just barely out of the gate now. My point was that in the next 24 months we'll see companies branding and releasing Smartphones that would never have entered the phone arena before. Nokia is used to competing with Motorolla. 24 months from now, I believe there will be a whole new group of companies competing with Nokia.

And that was my only point.

[Jason Dunn]

Driving economies of scale is something that is a benefit to the entire industry, but to think that an MS smartphone platform will, in fact, be cheaper than what Nokia/SE/Siemens brings to the market is a falicy.

According to an Orange representative that presented at Mobius, their SPV phone has a higher ARPU than any other phone they sell. To not believe that carriers are drooling all over themselves to roll out something, ANYTHING, that will drive ARPU higher is a falicy.

I don't disagree that the phone market is a radically different beast than anything Microsoft has tackled in the past, but my point was that they are taking a very unique approach that could pay off in spades over time...

[Jason Dunn]

Quotes from Nokia's new C.I.O Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf...

I have no idea what your post was meant to convey, but it reads like a jihad of gibberish. Do you have a point to make, other than that fact that you don't like the fact that I like Microsoft's approach to the phone market?

[lmtuxinc]

The US consumer market wants cheap phones. They will take 4 $50 dollar phones that they have to replace every year vs. a 200 buck phone that will last you for that time.

I don't know why people think that americans want the cheapest cell phone all the time. True, for my first phone i got the free model, but ever since then i have gotten the one with the best features, no matter the price. That is what Ebay is for. 8)

I bought the Sanyo 5300 Camera phone from sprint because it is the best, even though it is the most expensive at $400. it has almost everything i could want, and could only be improved if it was a MS smartphone like that mitac one.

When the MS Smartphones come out for sprint, you better believe that my 5300 will be going up on ebay for somebody else and i will be getting a smartphone as soon as i can find one at the right price on ebay.

Alan

[PlayAgain?]

Quotes from Nokia's new C.I.O Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf...

I have no idea what your post was meant to convey, but it reads like a jihad of gibberish. Do you have a point to make, other than that fact that you don't like the fact that I like Microsoft's approach to the phone market?

I took his post to indicate that he was suggesting Nokia was ignoring the threat of real competition and I didn't think it was an attack on Microsoft.

As for the Orange info, Orange think of 'SPV' as a type of phone, a category which includes many different brands and models, not just one particular unit, a la http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/59/30090.html

[Janak Parekh]

Quotes from Nokia's new C.I.O Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf...
I have no idea what your post was meant to convey, but it reads like a jihad of gibberish. Do you have a point to make, other than that fact that you don't like the fact that I like Microsoft's approach to the phone market?
As PlayAgain implies, it's all in the name, Jason. cyp's post is actually very pro-Smartphone. Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf was the Iraqi information minister who kept on proclaiming victory even when the opposition was "at the gates". The analog here is that Microsoft, while it has been perceived as unsuccessful in the Smartphone market so far, should only be ignored at great peril. :D

--janak

p.s. Interestingly, al-Sahaf is rapidly becoming a cult figure (http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,58452,00.html).

[denethor]

[quote=krisbrown]
At the moment, Symbian is winning the battle. As you said, the software being released for the phone is amazing. I never thought I'd be able to play and record video on a phone, play 3D games, IM chat, star gaze, control my TV, have a basic quasi-gps tool and PDA functionality, all in a small phone! Excellent! But Microsoft will begin to catch up and may even release a phone that works! So for Symbian's coalition to ignore the Microsoft regime would be foolish in the extreme, they have much more resource for 'information distribution' and are not afraid to bend the truth.
A battle? Battle is not started yet...Symbian Phones is in the market since 2001. In 2 years i cannot see any imporvement in this area. I used Nokia 9210 this was a terrible experince.
From the # of developers perspective; as a phone users i do not want any sofisticated software for my phone. I only need reliable and compitable Contacts, Inbox and Tasks applications, fast WEB browser. (Not just a poor WAP browser like someones have) and connectivity (Bluetooth espacially. Nokia' s bluetooth implementation is simply terrible).
Remember these devices called as a phone not a PDA.[/b]

[krisbrown]

Well actually I didn't write that, but I do agree with it.
You are correct the 9210 is cr@p :|

[PlayAgain?]

Well actually I didn't write that, but I do agree with it.
You are correct the 9210 is cr@p :|

:lol:

[Ben]

The 9210 is old now (a year? 18 months?)! If you want to look at what symbian can really do take a look at an SE P800, Nokia 7650 or Nokia 3650.

[denethor]

The 9210 is old now (a year? 18 months?)! If you want to look at what symbian can really do take a look at an SE P800, Nokia 7650 or Nokia 3650.
I really know them...Ericsson Symbian implementation is relativly better. But both 7650 and 3650 is just a MMS toy :wink: for teenagers. They are not enterprise class devices. I prefered to use 9210 as an example because of it class. (Ok ok..I know. "Bounce" is the the best PDA game ever 8) )
Anyway I believe that current H/W specs. of Symbian devices is not enough for today bussines needs. Symbian tries to prove that their OS is really effective on low profile devices. But they dont need to do this. Again 9210; why Nokia did not put 32 MB more RAM for that potentially killer device! Cost?? Sorry I paid 1000 € for it, cost is not the answer.

I dont care who will dominate the market. I just want cheaper, better and compatable devices. Brand is not important on my buying desicions.
(Now I am working in Telecom company so I can try all devices before buying them :twisted: )

Cheers

[denethor]

Well actually I didn't write that, but I do agree with it.
You are correct the 9210 is cr@p :|

:lol:

Wrong qoute button?? :lol:

[cyp]

Quotes from Nokia's new C.I.O Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf...
I have no idea what your post was meant to convey, but it reads like a jihad of gibberish. Do you have a point to make, other than that fact that you don't like the fact that I like Microsoft's approach to the phone market?
As PlayAgain implies, it's all in the name, Jason. cyp's post is actually very pro-Smartphone. Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf was the Iraqi information minister who kept on proclaiming victory even when the opposition was "at the gates". The analog here is that Microsoft, while it has been perceived as unsuccessful in the Smartphone market so far, should only be ignored at great peril. :D

--janak

p.s. Interestingly, al-Sahaf is rapidly becoming a cult figure (http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,58452,00.html).


Thanks Janak and Play Again, that is exactly what I meant. Although it will be a long drawn battle, Nokia better watch out.

p.s. all the quotes are a parody of al-Sahaf's actual quotes. http://www.mongabay.com/external/iraq_mohammed_saeed.htm

[mememe]

Driving economies of scale is something that is a benefit to the entire industry, but to think that an MS smartphone platform will, in fact, be cheaper than what Nokia/SE/Siemens brings to the market is a falicy.

According to an Orange representative that presented at Mobius, their SPV phone has a higher ARPU than any other phone they sell. To not believe that carriers are drooling all over themselves to roll out something, ANYTHING, that will drive ARPU higher is a falicy.



ARPU as the driver to device reselling is failing to address the key point which the wireless industry has failed to address to this point, customer profitability. It doesn't matter how much ARPU you get from a subscriber, it only matters if that subscriber is profitable. The fallicy of it all..