New Handheld PC from NEC - MobilePro 900

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://jornada720club.blogspot.com/">http://jornada720club.blogspot.com/</a><br /><br />I know there are some HPC fans among us and thought you might be interested in this bit of news.<br /><br />"With HP abandoning the clamshell form factor, we have decided to move a product that my company manufactures and that includes a Handheld PC to the NEC MobilePro line. I received permission to share information tonight from NEC with you folks about the new MobilePro 900, to be released later this quarter. First of all, like the Jornada 728, the MP 900 is based upon the StrongArm processor. Our software designed for the Jornada 728 installed on the the MP900 without any modification or recompilation whatsoever."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2003/20030320-mobilepro900.jpg" /><br /><br />You can see from the image it is still running the HPC 2000 OS. There are more pictures at the above link.

[Jason Dunn]

I still think there's so much potential for HPC devices, especially for students and people who don't need/want a full PC but want a keyboard for email and whatnot. The price point would have to be right though, and that's always where the HPC has failed. And the OS is a little old now too...

[dazz]

I agree Jason.

I have had a few different HPC's and still use my IBM z50. If they price point can move a little future south of notebooks these would be VERY compelling; long battery life, no hard drive, very portable (compared to notebooks), usable keyboard, built-in modem, etc.

I LOVE my PocketPC but still use an HPC! If you haven't owned one please don't respond saying that there is really no use for one.

dazz

[marlof]

I just love my HP Jornada 720. I'm constantly using it, since I love the built in keyboard for notetaking and the widescreen for internet browsing. It rocks!

[PapaSmurfDan]

HPC's have a huge untapped market. However, I think if Sony or anyone else could drop the price on something like the Sony U3 (http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.shtml), HPCs would instantly die. Battery life is fairly high on these devices, have a real cpu, video card, and keyboard. Yea they are silghtly heiver (1.8lbs is light in my book), but you also get a hell of a lot more. HPC's have a chance to survive if the price is dropped down to ~400-500 US.

-Dan

[QYV]

Is it at all possible to fit one of these in a typical jeans pocket? I carry my Pocket PC (first iPAQ 3630, now Axim) in my pants pocket every day and have for more than two years - if I can't carry it everywhere, it doesn't meet my needs. That said, the keyboard and screen size of an HPC are really tempting - is the overall device size prohibitive for carrying in a pocket?

[CTSLICK]

There is definitely a market to be served here. I am looking for an HPC right now...I just can't foot the bill for anything new or close to new. I am eyeing up an Intermec 6651 on ebay right now. Cool form factor and design.

QYV: Don't think this is going to fit in your pocket.

[marlof]

Is it at all possible to fit one of these in a typical jeans pocket? I carry my Pocket PC (first iPAQ 3630, now Axim) in my pants pocket every day and have for more than two years - if I can't carry it everywhere, it doesn't meet my needs. That said, the keyboard and screen size of an HPC are really tempting - is the overall device size prohibitive for carrying in a pocket?

It won't fit your jeans pocket, esp. if this one is -like it's predecessor- bigger than the 720. It does fit my coat pocket 'though. The staff on our trains have these hanging from their belt in cases but personally I'd think they're too big for that.

I use my Pocket PC for looking up stuff quickly, my H/PC to carry with me to meetings, and do GPRS webbrowsing / e-mailing when I travel light (e.g. no notebook), my notebook for doing desktop work on the road including light image editing, and my desktop for all my other computing needs. Do I need 4 computers you ask? Yes I do!

[marlof]

There is definitely a market to be served here. I am looking for an HPC right now...I just can't foot the bill for anything new or close to new. I am eyeing up an Intermec 6651 on ebay right now. Cool form factor and design.

The Intermec is an amazing device. Very high quality, very good design (two really good accessible ports), and although they are way too expensive for consumers, the prices on ebay aren't half bad.

[marlof]

HPC's have a huge untapped market. However, I think if Sony or anyone else could drop the price on something like the Sony U3 (http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.shtml), HPCs would instantly die. Battery life is fairly high on these devices, have a real cpu, video card, and keyboard. Yea they are silghtly heiver (1.8lbs is light in my book), but you also get a hell of a lot more. HPC's have a chance to survive if the price is dropped down to ~400-500 US.

As long as a fairly high battery life isn't 6 to 8 hours with the use of Bluetooth / WiFi, I'm not interested. I like the U3 a lot, but I still prefer the H/PC over that.

[dazz]

HPC's have a huge untapped market. However, I think if Sony or anyone else could drop the price on something like the Sony U3 (http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.shtml), HPCs would instantly die. Battery life is fairly high on these devices, have a real cpu, video card, and keyboard. Yea they are silghtly heiver (1.8lbs is light in my book), but you also get a hell of a lot more. HPC's have a chance to survive if the price is dropped down to ~400-500 US.

-Dan

I hear what you are saying BUT notebooks like this are always going to be pricey and don't meet exactly the same needs. HPC's have MUCH better battery life, 8 to 12 hours depending on the unit. Also, with no HD you can bang them around a lot more and they will still work. When my HPC is running I don't think twice about picking it up by the corner and carrying it somewhere. With my notebook I am always worried about the HD spinning while on an angle.

Also, there is a lot of things about HPC's that make sense for corporations. The OS is in ROM so even if the unit was to crash you can turn it back on and restore/access info from a CF card. If a notebook crashes you have to wait till you can install the OS again. That might mean waiting till you get back from a business trip.

Since HPC's sync to a PC you also have backup of almost all of your information. If your unit fails you just sync back up and will have all of the old info and files back quickly.

dazz

[felixdd]

HPC's are great and so are the MobilePro line. It's got one of the best keyboards I've ever used for anything (including desktops), and the ability to sych and backup to a desktop has saved my skin more than once (hard reset and full systrem restoration in a little under an hour -- I have clean image ready to go all the time).

I just ordered an Intermec 6651 on ebay 2 weeks ago -- hopefully it's what I want it to be (a speedy replacement for my MP). However the seller is always putting off telling me the tracking number to my package and is less than punctual at responding to my email...so buyer please beware.

[reydiodj]

- it'll be out by the end of April...I've got 14 on reserve for a project at work. The list price will be $899 :cry: but I believe I'll be getting some sort of price break on them :D

[Fishie]

Sweeeeeeeet, I miss my old 770.

The intermec6651/Sharp telios is awesome, insane screen quality.

[questionlp]

One thing that I think would make for a nice HPC? Have one that has built-in Ethernet (10/100) or can support Ethernet via a PC Card and run NetBSD on it, and turn it into something that someone can carry around for network diagnostics or configuring network devices. With an external null modem cable, SSH, 80x20 or 80x25 terminal, and a nice built-in keyboard would just rock... then I won't have to worry about lugging a laptop around with me.

If XFree86 would run on it, then I could have rdesktop for Terminal Services and a VNC viewer... damn it! Someone make me something like that and make it affordable! Hell, I don't mind if it has a slower ARM chip! :D

/me gets ready for the flames

[sponge]

There's always the Linux port on the J720, but besides that and the new Zaurus, I don't think we'll ever see something :\

[questionlp]

There's always the Linux port on the J720, but besides that and the new Zaurus, I don't think we'll ever see something :\
There is the clamshell Zaurus that is out in Japan (C700 I think) that run the compact version of Linux. That would work, but for network configuration or quick hacking stuff, the thumb keyboard on the Zaurus would drive me ****ing nuts. So long as all of the stuff I need can fit on there and the thing can last say 2 hours, I'll be happy... and so long as my company pays for it :D

I'm not a huge Linux person, so the NetBSD environment (which has been ported to the HPC platform) is going to be much, much closer to my day-to-day environment.

I could look at the older Libretto mini-laptops, but a lot of the used ones out there use a passive screen and battery life kind of sucks.

[ledowning]

I think the H/PC form factor could be used as a great diagnostic tool for configuring data systems and network monitoring I have been trying to work with my Jornada 568 for setting up modems, monitoring data communications and network diagnostics. I have been using a Socket CF serial card and a Socket CF 10/100 for connecting to the network etc. With the keyboards on an H/PC, things would be a lot simpler to do. BTW, anyone know of a good network protocol anaylzyer for the Pocket PC? I have been trying several products and they don't quite do the job. Have tried IPer and NetForce.

Thanks

[Ed Hansberry]

- it'll be out by the end of April...I've got 14 on reserve for a project at work. The list price will be $899 :cry:
This is, IMHO, the reason the HPC never caught on. Even the older HP 600 series would run 600-700 before memory cards.

[felixdd]

I just got the Intermec! A few scratches and a huge dent that caused part of the case to crack :cry:

But I bought it for $359...a device that normally causes $1400....shouldn't complain too much I guess...aside from those the unit is brand new.

[mc_03]

I think they need to update the HPC OS... it needs to be more like WinXP now. It is a bit outdated. And they definitely need to be cheaper.

[jasoncli]

They should take a lesson from the psion series. Those Psion 5 palmtops were just simply amazing. It was so very difficult to goto a IPAQ after having a psion 5 for so many years. Perfect size, never crashed, decent battery life, ... Its only flaw was no color screen options for the size.

Oh well..

[handheldplanet]

I recently picked up a Jornada 720 just for the fun of it, and for my needs, this thing blows away any Pocket PC I've ever owned (and I've owned them all). My iPAQ 5455 is now just collecting dust.

The built-in keyboard and the bigger screen are just what I've been dying for all these years with the Pocket PC. I also really like the OS - since instant-on is WAAAAY better than waiting for a laptop to boot up. And battery life = INCREDIBLE!!!

I think Jason's right, the biggest reason why Handheld PCs haven't succeeded is PRICE. My Jornada 720 was $350 used - and at that price I'd recommend it to anyone and everyone. For anything more than $750, I'd recommend a notebook computer instead.

[JF in Detroit]

Among other mobile computers, I still use my NEC MobilePro 800. Instant on is very nice. But it is a little long in the tooth, so I suffer from poor battery performance (can't find a dealer to replace the old one), and it is a little slow by today's standards.

Nonetheless, for writting, it is great. Slips into the briefcase without a second thought, and is ready to go right now. I still like it and use it. :worried:

[gwizard]

I would LOVE to have an HPC, but it would have to be cheap enough and thin/light enough. The whole size factor is what convinced me to switch from my Psion 5mx to my Dell Axim (plus the fact that the Psion, although I loved the software, had outdated hardware and had a B&W screen compared to the Axim's bright color screen). If there was a thin and light HPC with a good keyboard and screen and other hardware, and if the software was good, I'd buy it in a minute. HPCs are probably the best solutions for students, but cost and outdated technology (compared to most other new PDAs) prevent people from buying them.

[Mike Wagstaff]

While it's good to hear that a company is still committed to the HPC form factor, I'm finding it tough to get too excited about this news from the (admittedly little) information we know so far. Unless something dramatic shows up in its specs between now and its release, I don't see that it offers any major improvements over the J728. I only hope that NEC proves me wrong.

[acronym]

I'd love to see an updated handheld. still like to pull out the 720 every now and then for wireless websurfing.

With dell offering laptops at under $800 - they'd have price the handhelds under $500 tho'.

[Jason Dunn]

A deeper problem in all of this is the lack of an "ecosystem" around HPCs. Microsoft wanted a mass-market success, and HPCs just aren't mass market - most people want something they can fit in their pocket, and that's not an HPC.

That's not to say there aren't a significant number of people out there who would buy an HPC, but Microsoft hasn't invested money in that market for a few years now. And, as someone said, with laptops for $800, the price point for an HPC would need to be sub-$500 for them to sell. And even then, it would need an updated OS with some serious improvements.

I remember talking to someone at Microsoft about this, and a BIG problem they had was with consumer expectations. HPCs were being sold as "laptop replacements", so people had high expectations for them - and the OS and apps were so weak that it caused a bit of a backlash against the platform. We'd need a very robust developer community to create a viable platform.

[sub_tex]

I don't understand why it's still running HPC 2000 and not the new .NET one that's in the Nexio.

That would have been more logical a choice, no?

For students, and writers/coders, the HPC devices rock. The PC card slot is a great benefit. Though they should start ditching the onboard modem and put onboard NIC.

[dazz]

HPCs were being sold as laptop replacements but a BIG part of that was because of the cost. I think with enough of a $$ differentiation people will realize that there is a difference. Obviously that would have to be some heavy marketing.

PDAs were FIRST a personal device and so many people started to use them for work related activities that companies decided to take a look. I think for the HPC?s to catch on that needs to be reversed. They need to be sold as industry/vertical solutions. That means already having the right software installed. Once they catch on at companies and the costs can come down more people could buy for personal use (?personal use? for these would most likely mean buying it yourself and then using it for both personal and work!).

From what I can see there is just not a concerted effort for companies to sell these to industry. Hardware manufacturers relegate these to their mobile line of products and will rarely push the platform. The biggest reason being that it is easier to convince companies to consider laptops, they are more familiar with them and are not properly educated as to the HPCs benefits.

Companies that provide vertical solutions will sometimes push the HPC platform but because they need to be flexible and competitive they will generally have versions of their software available for other platforms. HPCs are more expensive after all. Industry solutions might also be only useful in ruggedized units which does not help to bring the cost of ?regular? units down.

So, what?s the solution? I would love to see some companies that are pushing their HPC platform along with some vertical solutions. There are some out there but they are very small and address a very small vertical.

dazz

[PJE]

I don't understand why it's still running HPC 2000 and not the new .NET one that's in the Nexio.

That would have been more logical a choice, no?

For students, and writers/coders, the HPC devices rock. The PC card slot is a great benefit. Though they should start ditching the onboard modem and put onboard NIC.

The main reason is probably due to it using a MIPS processor rather than an ARM based unit. I assume CE.NET can handle multiple CPU styles, but with most software being ARM based it seems a little bit of a backward step.

PJE

[Brainiac 5]

The main reason is probably due to it using a MIPS processor rather than an ARM based unit.
The original quote says it has a StrongArm processor; the older MobilePros had MIPS. (Why StrongArm and not XScale, I wonder?)

[felixdd]

Bah I just realized that this perpetuates my curse that whenever I buy a device, they come out with a new one. I received my intermec the same night this was announced. BAH!!!


See my post here: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9584&start=10

This sucks. Everytime I make a purchase, the industry comes up with something new shortly thereafter.

I buy the Philips Nino -- then they announce the arrival of PPC.
I buy the NEC MobilePro 770 -- then NEC announces the 790 and HPC2000.
I buy the Jornada -- then they discontinue it.
I buy the Intermec 6651 -- then the NEXiO comes out.
I buy a 256 mb CF card -- then now they say they're coming out with 4 gb.

Either I'm cursed, or I have industry spies that target me as a "late adopter" and whenever I buy something it signals them to come out with something new :roll:.

At this rate I'm going to go broke with trying to keep on top of things!