when were getting pda devices with more ram???

[justBe]

hey there people... memory prices are quite cheap these days... so why we pda users dont get more memory??? if its so cheap?

why can pda makers release models or optional setups with 128 or 256 mb of ram??? theres some kind of pocketpc memory limitation???? or a microsoft directive to only ship with 64 (96 on some models)???

[Janak Parekh]

PDAs don't use standard SDRAM. They use low-power nonvolatile SDRAM, which is much more expensive.

That said, the Toshiba Genio 550C(?) is coming out with 128MB. It's not in America/Europe yet, but we hope it'll get here soon.

In the meantime, Pocket PC Techs (www.ppctechs.com) can upgrade a number of devices to 128MB or more, if you're willing to pay.

--janak

[justBe]

i know... they dont use standard ram.... but anyway i think companies that makes pdas can let us decide if we want more as an optional!!! :(

[Janak Parekh]

i know... they dont use standard ram.... but anyway i think companies that makes pdas can let us decide if we want more as an optional!!! :(
If there was space in PDAs to make surface-mounted expansion, perhaps. But it's tough enough as it is to cram in CF and SD slots.

I do agree that more 128MB models would be nice, though. I hope that the Genio will burst the barrier and yield many more 128MB models. It's also possible they're holding out to lump the 128MB with a number of other improvements...

--janak

[bobkatt]

You have to look this from manufacturer's point.
People will not buy a newly released model only due to the fact that it has more memory. It's the overall package that counts.
Once a model sells for awhile and gets very popular, it's time to release a new model with new features, not just more memory.

Eventually adding more memory on the base unit increases the base cost and the total size factor. If manufacturers want to package a unit with more memory through memory cards then this is a totally different marketing issue and not really a manufacturing issue.

Bottom line is to produce a unit that has everything people want in a reasonable price range. As far as a limit to Microsft Windows CE, as far as I know there is no limit below 512 mb ram. From my understanding, memory is accessed in groups of 32 meg segments.

At the end of the day, having 64 meg internal and 32 megs external is not much different from having 96 megs internal. If you are concerned about using the 1 slot for memory and not having a slot available for other accessories then this is a whole different issue.
Companies like Sandisk are addressing this by making a wireless card with built in ram too.

Hope this explanation helps.

[Steven Cedrone]

AFAIK, the OS can not deal dirctly with anything over 64MB RAM though...

But hopefully this will change in the next version!!!

Steve

[rberry88]

To be honest, and this is coming from a Palm to PPC converter, I'm quite happy with the 32-64 MB that is currently available. Try suffering along with only 11-15 MB of usuable RAM and you'll appreciate the PPC's offering that much more. After paying $599 USD for a Sony Clie NX70V (top of the line in the Palm World 6 months ago) and just recently paying $649 USD for my HP5455 that has SD card slot included (SDIO), bluetooth included and WiFi built in with expansion sleeves available for CF and PC cards plus almost unlimited customizability (?) is just outstanding.

I'd have to say that after having the Clie and now having the PPC, I feel spoiled as it is.

rberry 8)

[hollis_f]

Two problems with PPCs - not enough RAM and losing all the contents of RAM when the power disappears could be solved by using the same RAM as in SD cards. Yes, it would slow the machine down somewhat - but would it really be by all that much?

How many users would put up with a machine that was 20% slower if it had 256MB RAM and you could leave it uncharged for a week without losing everything?

[PetiteFlower]

Am I wrong in thinking that the kind of memory in SD cards is not RAM?

[Janak Parekh]

AFAIK, the OS can not deal dirctly with anything over 64MB RAM though...
Are you sure? Pocket PC Techs says the 39xx units can natively handle 128MB (http://www.pocketpctechs.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=I39-064-128RAM).

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Am I wrong in thinking that the kind of memory in SD cards is not RAM?
Right. Technically, SD is flash, not SDRAM.

As to "integrating" it, Toshiba is doing just that with the e750 - 32MB of NAND flash - and I did some research - NAND flash only has to be copied over to memory for executing code, so that is really on top of the 64MB. We'll see how it pans out.

--janak

[bobkatt]

Actually the comment about not losing data on external memory cards is a high one on my list. Really speed wise your not losing all that much.
Yes it may take a slight longer to read/write from an external memory card but this is not what most people do anyways. Most people spend more time using the loaded programs. This being said, you will use a large external memory card anyways eventually.

By using a large external memory card and leaving at least 16 megs free on the main unit, you will have lots of memory to runs various applications without a problem.

[Steven Cedrone]

AFAIK, the OS can not deal dirctly with anything over 64MB RAM though...
Are you sure? Pocket PC Techs says the 39xx units can natively handle 128MB (http://www.pocketpctechs.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=I39-064-128RAM).

--janak

I stand corrected! But why do they use their own drivers for all of the other Pocket PC 2002 devices???

Our upgrades have been fully tested with the release version of Pocket PC 2002 and are completely compatible. PPC2002 does not support the 128MB natively, so our proprietary driver is still required. We have also found that by using our driver, the data transfer rate is substantially faster when saving to our disk instead of the normal internal RAM storage.

The above quote if from the FAQ on the Pocket PC Techs web site. (http://www.pocketpctechs.com/PPC_FAQ/ppc_faq.asp#PPC2KCompat)

Steve

[Janak Parekh]

I stand corrected! But why do they use their own drivers for all of the other Pocket PC 2002 devices???
I think the memory drivers for PPCs are OEM-specific. Compaq/HP saw fit to include one with 128MB support. I still maintain it's OS supported, though. 8)

--janak

[Steven Cedrone]

Like I said, I stand corrected... :wink: But I wonder why HP now uses a different memory manager for the newer Ipaqs, but doesn't include it in the ROM updates for the older ones???

Steve

[Janak Parekh]

Like I said, I stand corrected... :wink: But I wonder why HP now uses a different memory manager for the newer Ipaqs, but doesn't include it in the ROM updates for the older ones???
Too much work to rewrite it for older units? ;) It's not as if the 128MB upgrade is officially supported. PPCTechs just developed a (really neat) workaround for all the other units.

--janak

[bobkatt]

The simple solution for 128 mb memory support is to get a newer iPAQ.
Either new or used through ebay.
HP will not upgrade the ROM on the older units as mentioned and their time and resources are better spent releasing better models.

Why would you want 128 meg support really on a PDA anyways.
Memory cards are cheap now and even a simple CF card sleeve is cheap too.

[Steven Cedrone]

AFAIK, the OS can not deal dirctly with anything over 64MB RAM though...

But hopefully this will change in the next version!!!

Steve

Actually, looking back at this I should have said "Pocket PC and Pocket PC 2002", not OS...

But I was wrong anyway. :wink:

Steve