Samsung To Abandon PalmOS and Focus On Pocket PC? [Archive]

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Ed Hansberry

03-09-2003, 11:00 PM

<a href="http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1232&showComments=true">http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1232&showComments=true</a> bargainPDA had an interview with a person named Mac, which is a field tech for Airgate Solutions, a Sprint PC distribution partner. Even better though is that Mac has a friend within Samsung's design department. The whole interview is interesting, but here is the question that piqued my interest: bPDA – "Do you have any insight on why Samsung is going with two operating systems? Sony also has this issue. Their Clie line uses Palm OS, but the Sony Ericsson devices like the P800 use Symbian. Sony’s CEO even thinks this odd." Mac – "It is odd, but get this. The i500 is the last phone that Samsung will produce with Palm OS. This news I think is the news that will kill the Betamax of the millennium. Palm OS is surviving because of the cell phone bit and I think will die by end of 04 or beginning of 05."<!> I have been saying this for a long time. The PalmOS is not suited for phones. A PalmOS phone is a cobbled together device that has electronic duct tape holding it together. The Treo is a miserable email device compared to the RIM and not a great PDA since you are constantly switching between the keypad and stylus. Palm must go back to square one and integrate keyboard and joypad support into every aspect of their OS to make phone devices possible. Microsoft has done this with the Smartphone 2002 device but they too need to work on the Pocket PC Phone keyboard integration. The difference that I see is MS realizes this and is working on it. MS realized years ago that slapping the Pocket PC OS into a phone wouldn't make a great voice centric device and started almost from scratch with the Smartphone OS. Will PalmSource realize the mistake of trying to force a data centric OS into a one-size-fits-all solution for phones? Obviously, Samsung doesn't think so.

Charles Pickrell

03-09-2003, 11:20 PM

I'm glad to hear it. Palm OS devices do nothing but confuse the consumer and even the cellular carriers. A Sprint representative was demoing products to my user group and he actually said that Samsung was coming out with a very small PalmOS phone that had reduced UI functionality. I knew he was talking about Windows Powered Smartphone, but obviously he was confused. This wasn't just some dumb salesperson either, he was the Sprint gadget guy, he had an HPC Pro, an iPaq, a Toshiba 2032 Phone, a Handspring Treo, and more.

I'm planning on buying the Samsung i700 Pocket PC Phone Edition when it is released in two or three months.

Vincent M Ferrari

03-09-2003, 11:27 PM

MS realized years ago that slapping the Pocket PC OS into a phone wouldn't make a great voice centric device and started almost from scratch with the Smartphone OS. Will PalmSource realize the mistake of trying to force a data centric OS into a one-size-fits-all solution for phones?

That's the key point. You hit the nail right on the head.

Couple that with the fact that Palm never really had any competition (at least by numbers) until PPC 2002 came out, and now you have a company that has to stay competitive, so MS comes out with PPCPE and SmartPhone, and Palm comes out with, well, Palm OS. Again. No real changes, no real functionality.

It's funny, but I think in the long run, the lack of innovation on the Palm platform and all its hardware makes me wonder what they're thinking?!? How can you possibly compete with someone who's signing hardware manufacturers galore and constantly evolving their product when you won't even admit that your own product is flawed, or at the very least not suited for the applications people need anymore?

Scott R

03-10-2003, 12:00 AM

I have been saying this for a long time. The PalmOS is not suited for phones. A PalmOS phone is a cobbled together device that has electronic duct tape holding it together. The Treo is a miserable email device compared to the RIM and not a great PDA since you are constantly switching between the keypad and stylus.
I agree that the PalmOS is not "suited" for phones in the sense that the OS was not originally designed with phones in mind. They (and their licensees) have, indeed, had to "cobble together" different components to get it to work as a smartphone. I also agree that the best way to design a great smartphone is to design it from the ground up to be a great smartphone. Danger has done this with less of a focus on the "phone" aspect and MS has done this with less of a focus on the data aspect.

However, despite the fact that the Palm OS was not originally designed for this purpose, I believe that the Treo is still the best option of the three currently. Handspring has done a good job of modifying the OS and built-in PIM apps where necessary to take advantage of the jog wheel and thumbboard (though they could/should have done even more customization in this regard). Comparing RIM to a Treo on the single aspect of email is true, but deceiving. It's kind of like those TV ads where a car company compares one feature of their car to that feature on another expensive car, then a different feature to that feature on a different expensive car, etc. The end result being to get the consumer to think that their car is better than all of those other cars overall. IOW, the Blackberry is a better device for strictly emailing. But if you want a multi-function device, the Treo is much better than the Blackberry. And I can tell you that the Treo's email capability is far from "miserable." In fact, it's quite good. I have a Treo 300 with Sprint, giving me unlimited data usage as part of my regular plan. The Treo 300 allows for always-on connectivity (along the lines of a cable modem as far as always being connected - though obviously not anywhere near as fast as a cable modem). There are over 10 email programs to choose from on the Palm OS (some free), each with different pros/cons, but the best one right now (assuming you only need POP3 access - IMAP support coming later), is the $35 SnapperMail which supports attachments and periodic fetching of new mail.

To really take advantage of email and instant messaging, you really need a thumbboard. In this regard, MS' dropped the ball with their SmartPhone design. As a result, I believe the SmartPhone will compete less with devices like the Blackberry phones, Treos, and HipTops, and more with devices like the myriad of color game-capable Java phones that have hit the market. The next version of the PPC OS with support for landscape will hopefully result in some interesting new devices. But, as with the Palm OS, the PPC OS wasn't designed for this either, so they have to "cobble together" the stuff, too.

Scott

Foo Fighter

03-10-2003, 12:24 AM

Mac Palm OS is surviving because of the cell phone bit and I think will die by end of 04 or beginning of 05.<!>

This guys seems rather ignorant of the mobile market. PalmOS is growing. He talks as though it is on its last leg. And if he really believes that the dominant Mobile OS platform is going to completely die in the next twelve months, he must be smoking crack! :roll:

I agree, PalmOS isn't well suited to phones. Although I must say Kyocera's newest model is pretty damn slick. 8O I still believe this story is hogwash.

PlayAgain?

03-10-2003, 12:36 AM

I’ve been fortunate enough to be trading emails over the past week with Mac, who is a field tech for Airgate Communications, which is Sprint distribution partner. Mac is also fortunate to have a friend who works in design at Samsung.

Well, I know this chap right yeah? And I like see him down the pub and he's got this mate right? And like, his mate works for this like really big company and stuff? And like, he said Wall-Mart was like going to buy out Microsoft and stuff, and it's like really true and stuff? I know, like, because this bloke down the pub said it's like true and stuff?

Come on! Where is your integrity when reporting on such stuff as this? Is this true because "Brian" has been e-mailing to "Mac" and "Mac" has a friend who said so? Or is it because you want it to be true?

Foo Fighter

03-10-2003, 12:41 AM

Come on! Is it true because "Brian" has been speaking to "Mac" and "Mac" has a friend who said so? Or is it because you want it to be true?

LOL! :lol:

This is nothing but unsubstantiated rumor...not even from a "reliable" source. I seriously doubt Samsung is going to pull the plug on PalmOS. And I certainly wouldn't take the word of some guy named "Mac". But if Mac says so, it must be true! :roll:

bargainPDA

03-10-2003, 12:44 AM

I can assure you this exchange is legit. I don't agree with all of his points, especially the claims about Palm dying out. However, this exchange did take place. Take his comments with a grain of salt if you wish, I would expect as much.

Brian

Foo Fighter

03-10-2003, 12:49 AM

I can assure you this exchange is legit.

I don't doubt the legitimacy of this exchange, and I'm not calling anyone a liar. But I don't put any value in the claims made by this person. It's hearsay.

I don't agree with all of his points, especially the claims about Palm dying out.

His statement regarding PalmOS dying by Q4 2004 illustrates that he has no clue what he's talking about. This is utter lunacy!

bargainPDA

03-10-2003, 12:59 AM

Fair enough, I felt like you were questioning the report. I totally understand your concern. Part of the fun with these sites it to hunt down the rumors and who knows, his claim of moving to Pocket PC might be right. He certainly presents himself as someone who is deeply connected. As you say though, it could be off base...and so it goes.

Brian

Scott R

03-10-2003, 01:10 AM

Personally, I don't doubt the possibility that Samsung could be planning to stop creating Palm OS smartphones. This person's opinion about what that signifies, however, means about as much as anyone else's opinion on the matter.

Scott

shk718

03-10-2003, 01:40 AM

Scott R

03-10-2003, 02:33 AM

Actually, here's a news item I forgot about...
Samsung Joins the Palm OS Ready Program and Passes PalmSource Certification
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030303/sfm063_1.html

Now, this doesn't mean that Samsung will be making a phone which uses this chip, but it certainly indicates that Samsung doesn't seem to share "Mac's" views about the Palm OS not being around for much longer.

Scott

heov

03-10-2003, 02:36 AM

Why would you say Palm is poorly suited for a smart phone? I've played with the Kyocera palm and found it quite useful. The program taks up a small foot print and doesn't require anything over a 33mz processor. Don't microsoft smart phones require over a 100mz processor? And what does that do to battery life? Also if your going to have a pda in your phone you need some other input methoid than the number keys.

MS Smartphones can play MP3s, movies, and games. That's why it has a 100MHz processor. The OMAP ARM processors in the smartphones are very comparable to the Dragonball's in palms, when comparing power consumption. Plus, all Palm OS 5 devices have ARM processors as well.

There are 2 types of smartphones, one that is more phone (voice), and one that is more pda (data). MS has both: Smartphone 2k2 (time to change the name already, eh? it's still not in the US!) and PPCPE. You can pick.

What is appealing about the Treo is that it's a blend of both worlds, it makes a decent phone AND a decent pda; whereas others are better @ one thing than the other.

At least that's just my opinion ;)

Foo Fighter

03-10-2003, 02:43 AM

Scott R

03-10-2003, 03:40 AM

What is appealing about the Treo is that it's a blend of both worlds, it makes a decent phone AND a decent pda; whereas others are better @ one thing than the other.

Problem is, the Treo is already been made obsolete by competing handsets. High-res color displays...multimedia...built-in cameras. Treo is yesterdays oatmeal. It hasn't been selling well to begin with.
The hardware technology is definitely outdated, but it's still the best convergence device, IMHO. For someone who needs the essentials but desires the "sizzle" (like me), it makes me long for more but not long for anything else that currently exists.

Scott

bbarker

03-10-2003, 04:03 AM

A key Verizon executive for the Northwest told me Verizon will be offering a Pocket PC Phone Edition model from Samsung within about 60 days. I hope he knew what he was talking about.

Here's an article about such a device, although there aren't any specs: http://www.infosync.no/show.php?id=2846

Daniel

03-10-2003, 04:08 AM

I was talking to Bill Gates the other day who told me that they were going to make a smart phone in conjunction with Apple...

:roll:

I'm not trying to be rude but that about sums up this article.

Daniel

Bosco

03-10-2003, 04:17 AM

MS Smartphones can play MP3s, movies, and games. That's why it has a 100MHz processor. The OMAP ARM processors in the smartphones are very comparable to the Dragonball's in palms, when comparing power consumption. Plus, all Palm OS 5 devices have ARM processors as well.

The Kyocera 7135 can also play MP3's and display video and it has a 33 MHz Dragonball. Even the ancient N710c (not a smartphone) has a 320x320 screen, gMovie, and an MP3 player on a 33 MHz Dragonball.

I was going to post about Samsung joining the Palm OS Ready Program, but someone beat me to it. This "Mac" guy can't be higher than a tech support operator if he says Palm OS will die within a year. The Earth is flat.

Foo Fighter

03-10-2003, 04:37 AM

This "Mac" guy can't be higher than a tech support operator if he says Palm OS will die within a year. The Earth is flat.

Ha! Either that or my theory: he got this info from his local methadone clinic, which he frequents a lot.

Cracknell

03-10-2003, 04:58 AM

He could be referring to Palm OS use in phone. That by 2004/05 Palm OS will not be a significant player in smarphone space.

ARW

03-10-2003, 05:12 AM

Macmetal666 has been yanking everybody's chain over at smartphoneforums on the whole issue of the i500. He's doesn't seem all that knowledgable, nor will he provide any proof of his claims. I'm taking him with one large grain of sand.

In any event, make mine an i600, if indeed it's still a possibility.

mmace

03-10-2003, 06:22 PM

st63z

03-10-2003, 06:53 PM

Jonathon Watkins

03-10-2003, 08:24 PM

Nice to have you join us Mmace. :D What brings you to this neck of the woods? I see from your previous posts you are in the habit of bringing some useful input into conversations, so do you lurk here, or just have employees who do? :lol:

What an interesting direction this conversation is taking. :wink:

mmace

03-10-2003, 08:58 PM

do you lurk here

I try to read the site when I have time. Loved the link on how to explode CD's in a microwave.

I don't post much because it's a PPC site and most of what I have to say probably wouldn't be welcome. But when I can insert some relevant facts to clarify an issue, I try to drop in.

I think we all (most of us anyway) have a shared desire to grow the market for mobile data devices.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource Inc.

bbarker

03-10-2003, 09:00 PM

What is a CCO? Chief Competitive Officer?

Janak Parekh

03-10-2003, 10:32 PM

What is a CCO? Chief Competitive Officer?
That's exactly it. Mike is usually welcome to post here, as his position enables him to get numbers and analysis that we humans rarely can get ahold of. ;)

--janak

scrinch

03-10-2003, 10:49 PM

Here's a post (http://www.smartphonesource.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=55966#post55966) over at SmartphoneSource.com with a photo and details of a Palm OS 5.2 tri-band GSM/GPRS phone that is in the works at Samsung. Looks like a nice phone...comparable to the Mitac.

Maybe the Palm OS isn't dead in the smartphone market after all!

st63z

03-11-2003, 12:15 AM

his position enables him to get numbers and analysis that we humans rarely can get ahold of. ;)

Uhh...

Janak Parekh

03-11-2003, 12:22 AM

his position enables him to get numbers and analysis that we humans rarely can get ahold of. ;)
Uhh...
I was being humorous, in a positive way. Seriously, a lot of the detailed analytical reports from Gartner, NPD, etc. cost big $$. How else would they stay in business? It makes it tough, though, to compare market-share by different metrics.

--janak

Ed Hansberry

03-11-2003, 01:03 AM

The i500 is the last phone that Samsung will produce with Palm OS.

What a shame. I'll have to go tell the delegation of Samsung engineers who just flew out from Korea to work with us on future products. They seemed so enthusiastic too.

:roll:

Heh heh. That answers that. Note that I didn't say that. I was just quoting a rumor at bargainPDA.

Knowing that they are working on a new model, perhaps the i500 is the last PalmOS phone that designer is working on. Or the last Samsung phone for that matter. :lol:

st63z

03-11-2003, 02:34 AM

I was being humorous, in a positive way.

I know... :)

Anyways, I for one (as a nobody reader of the site) welcome reading anyone with a contributing viewpoint.

Dunno about Ed "I-want-Palm-to-die-and-suffer-horribly" Hansberry though...

Fishie

03-11-2003, 03:04 AM

Bosco

03-11-2003, 03:14 AM

Dunno about Ed "I-want-Palm-to-die-and-suffer-horribly" Hansberry though...

LOL I gotta laugh, sorry. That's just funny as hell.

bbarker

03-11-2003, 07:13 AM

Sounds like Samsung is hedging its bets by releasing new models based on both the Palm and the Pocket PC Phone Edition operating systems.

Ed Hansberry

03-11-2003, 01:52 PM

Anyways, I for one (as a nobody reader of the site) welcome reading anyone with a contributing viewpoint.

Dunno about Ed "I-want-Palm-to-die-and-suffer-horribly" Hansberry though...
Sorry I posted an apparently false rumor. That is the thing about rumors. You can't post only the true ones. You don't know what is true.

This is an opinion site and I still think hacking PalmOS onto a phone makes for a miserable phone. Too much stylus work, even for the keboard clad treo.

So if you don't like reading my contributions... don't!

Fishie

03-11-2003, 02:03 PM

Ed Ed Ed you seem agitated Ed.

st63z

03-11-2003, 05:42 PM

Oh in case you weren't also joking Ed, sorry, sometimes I forget to dab on the smilies...

First bdj then ed, I'm on a streak :) :cry: