Magazine reviews are not on this planet

[eksystems]

:roll:

I wanted to buy a PPC and wasted the usual amount of time reading up on specs etc and reading as many articles and reviews as I could.

I eventually settled on and bought a Mitac Mio 338. A beautiful, easy to use model. Equally on par with far more expensive models made by the other big boys.

However if I had took notice of the reviews of this and all other PPC's I would have run a mile. They are so obtuse and negative, yes they give good points but there is always a down side from them and not always that relevant. Nothing is perfect in this world, we don't expect it to be, but come on guys, cut us some slack and try to not always make us feel that we have bought a piece of crap? I just could not afford £600 for top ofthe range but the Mitac does it job, without a bag of fetures I will "NEVER" use,

[belfast-biker]

:roll:

I wanted to buy a PPC and wasted the usual amount of time reading up on specs etc and reading as many articles and reviews as I could.

However if I had took notice of the reviews of this and all other PPC's I would have run a mile. They are so obtuse and negative, yes they give good points but there is always a down side from them and not always that relevant. Nothing is perfect in this world, we don't expect it to be, but come on guys, cut us some slack and try to not always make us feel that we have bought a piece of crap? I just could not afford £600 for top ofthe range but the Mitac does it job, without a bag of fetures I will "NEVER" use,


What exactly is the point you're trying to make? That you can't honestly read a review and decide which features are important to you and which aren't?

[eksystems]

The point I am trying to make is that these reviewers can mis-lead.

I can read specs for myself I don't need a reviewer to do that, but they seen to always put down every product that is not ultra top of the range.

I sometimes wonder if they are on back handers from these companies. Lets face it, a bad review, which can just be an opinion of the reviewer can effectively kill what is essentially a very good product. The whole country reads this stuff and it does influence.

Its like saying that Porshe or ferrari cars, are superior to the Ford Focus, yes obvioulsy its true, BUT you cannot compare them just becuase they are cars, which is what they do.

Lets get real. Its been beef of mine for years, these people "ARE NOT AS INDEPENDANT" as they try to make out. And sometime (regularly) slag off a product becuase its not top of the range.

[Reinaldo]

oooooooooooooooooook.
*walking slowly away*
*running away*

But seriously, there are good reveiwers out there, and you do have to realize that maybe for that specific reviewer the Mitac was a bad device and for other reviewers the Mitac was pure gold.

Just look arround for reviews made by small websites.

I am betting this thread will end up on the hall of shame. :lol:

[eksystems]

Perhaps I sounded a bit to agressive in my reply, I don't mean to start a flame???

Sorry if anyone takes it take way.

But I stick to my point about reviewers not being fully impartial.

Have we not all bught pieces of kit which work brilliantly and are perfect for the job, only to read that in the opinion of the reviewer it is a rubbish.

Its not just PDA's, but motherboards hard drives, etc, anything to do with the computing world in general. I wish we were all in the same position as these reviewers, because I know that they tend to get given the kit for free.

The computing world is ever changing, and I am usually there or there abouts with keeping up, I am certainly not a luddite.

I wish I was a lager reviewer????????

[PetiteFlower]

If you think that reviewers only recommend top of the line, $600 PDAs, you must not have read any of the reviews of the Axim.

[Andy Whiteford]

Any reviews in particluar that we can have a look at?

[PetiteFlower]

No kidding, I just did a search and there don't seem to be any on this site. In fact it seems like that PDA isn't even available in the US, or if it is now it wasn't a few months ago.

[Andy Whiteford]

I have contacted Mitac regarding reviewing their products but have heard nothing back.
If anyone has any contacts for Mitac, please put me in touch.

[eksystems]

:twisted:
Looks like I have got something going,

While not wishing to ruffle any feathers, I have been reading computer magazine for over 20 years now, since the advent of the PC, and I work in systems engineering so I do know what I am talking about.

In all these years, I have rarely come accross any tottally unbiased reviews.

You only have to look at them yourselves to pick up the biased views. I have said it once and I will say it again, If I had relied purely on magazine reviews for guidance, I would be to frightened to buy anything unless I had an unlimited supply of money, but even then , within a few weeks of buying something, it s slagged of becuase its not as good as the newer model, I expect that, BUT they compare different models from different ends of the spectrum.

I still say, in "MY OPINION" many reviewers are bribed into saying what they do about a product. There has to be a certain amount of pressure, no one wants a bad review? abut their latest state of the art gizmo, so thay compare to the wrong thing, A rolls Royce is a car just like a Mini. but you wouldn't compare them?

According to the reviewers, I have a slow mother board, unreliable generic ram, a crappyslow Geforce MX 420 graphics card, etc, yet my bench marks are only marginally behind the super stuff, AND THATS THE ONLY PLACE I NOTICE A DIFFERENCE. I can't think that the 3 or 4 seconds longer it takes XP to load on my main PC is life changeing. Like wise my PDA is not the top dog, but it works beautifully and I would give it a 100% star rateing for the price, it does what it says on the box
but I apprecaite that the more expensive models will do it faster, but by how much.
it was never ment to be the best, but the comparisions are made WHY.

[Andy Whiteford]

It all boils down to a variety of factors.
I prefer to review a product on it's own merits and avoid as much as possible any direct comparisons with other products however others do like to compare to other popular products to give the reader an idea of the quality on offer.

You are correct in what you are saying regarding your own personal preference however I think there are a lot of well written, unbiased reviews out there.
Just out of curiosity, what made you go for the Mitac?

[eksystems]

I wanted to be fully compatible with my Home PC and work laptop which both run XP. Therefore it obvioulsy had to be a Micrsoft Pocket PC 2002.

I spent a lot of time and effort looking at all the specs and quickly realised that the differencences were not great considering the price divide.

I found the Mitac Mio 338 by accident from a mail shot to my house and got as much information on the it as I could because it looked to good to be true. I quickly realised that I could save myself a least £200 (pounds) over the top range models, becuase it did everything I wanted it to. To be honst money was not the problem here, but I begrudge paying more than I have to for a result.
Its how I buy most things, I set out a list of things it needs to do, and a price, in this case I budgeted for far more but saved money, if I had read the review on the English ZD net site I would have had doubts about it.

[PetiteFlower]

Same reason I bought the 300 mh Dell instead of the 400 mh one, same reason I didn't spend the extra $200 to upgrade to 512m RAM from 256 when I bought my desktop; yeah they both would have been nice but for the money I saved, they will serve all my needs just fine and I probably won't notice much, if any, difference in performance. I don't let "power user" reviews try to push me to buy things I don't need; but the tech geeks who write them will (almost)always value the bigger-better-faster-more tech-y stuff. And then again you read the reviews of the Axim and everyone points out what a great buy it is since it does just about everything that the more expensive models do, for significantly less money.

However unless you can show us what reviews you read, then we can't tell if the reviewer was pointing out legitimate shortcomings or just being a tech snob. Post some links.

[eksystems]

The link below is has review which in essence looks good until you really look at it. Its writen by what I know consider to be as your quote "A TECH SNOB"

What the hell does she expect for the price,

As I have already said, I buy on my own intuition, I check the full specs first hand, and then decide. I am not influnced by these smart alecs, they just leave me cold with there clever prose!! I have read reviews in the past about gear I own which has made me think the reviewer has never actually seen the piece of kit, as the review bears no resembalance to what I have.

In my view professional reviewers are dangerous, they should ask "normal" people to write about the product they own, without comparison to the competition. Give us the facts of what it can do, not what it can't when compared to superior models.
http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/review/12/2/3117.html

[spursdude]

I find nothing wrong with the review. She only points out two main downsides. One of them is the removable battery, which should be included in the unit. She's not discriminating it because it's cheap; after all, other "budget" devices like the Axim and iPaq 1910 have removable batteries.

As for the shortage of RAM, it's a very reasonable complaint. 32MB of RAM will limit your usage unless you get a storage card; it's a fact of life. Even so, I think that she takes into account your point - it's a budget device, and for the price, it's good - but you can't expect it to have all the features of a higher-priced device.

The review makes sense to me - if you need to get something cheaper, go for it - but there will be some downsides. It's not a snotty review - just a practical one. I mean, what did you want the review to say?

[Reinaldo]

I second that motion. This review has the same style as the Dell and the 1910 reviews. The 1910 says it lacks memory and it doesn't have expansion capabilities. Its a completely fair review outlining the good things and the bad things of the Mitac. As a matter of fact, its pretty positive compared to other reviews like the T-Mobile Phone.

You have to get used to finding bad things about your product, because no Pocket PC is perfect.

(With excpetion of the iPAQ 19__ with buit in bluetooth, wifi, CF, SD, PPC Phone edition, etc) :lol: Coming soon to a dream near you!

[Reinaldo]

In my view professional reviewers are dangerous, they should ask "normal" people to write about the product they own, without comparison to the competition. Give us the facts of what it can do, not what it can't when compared to superior models.

It has to be compared to other models, otherwise how can people picture the specs. Besides, you consider the 1910 to be a superior model? Or the Dell? She says they are about the same. It also HAS to be compared to the competition because the point of reading reviews is to find what people think about the product you are about to buy.

As I have already said, I buy on my own intuition, I check the full specs first hand, and then decide. I am not influnced by these smart alecs, they just leave me cold with there clever prose!! I have read reviews in the past about gear I own which has made me think the reviewer has never actually seen the piece of kit, as the review bears no resembalance to what I have.

Then why the hell did you read the review in the first place and start a thread on it, smart alec? :lol:

I also make reviews for some websites and my reviews are of a similar style, comparing devices to higher and lower models and giving the buyer information so he/she can decide. Its just the way reviews work. If you have a better format, I would love to hear about it.

If you find a bad review in the future, just shrug and move on. It happens. :lol:

[Fishie]

I agree, its actually a pretty good review.

[Pony99CA]

I find nothing wrong with the review. She only points out two main downsides. One of them is the removable battery, which should be included in the unit. She's not discriminating it because it's cheap; after all, other "budget" devices like the Axim and iPaq 1910 have removable batteries.

The other downside was the smaller amount of RAM, and both were described as "niggles" -- minor flaws. However, the reviewer said a lot of good things about the Mitac. I think eksystems is being way too sensitive.

As for bias in reviews, everybody is biased to some degree. A good reviewer will let you know what his biases are so you can judge the device based on those.

If anything, reviewers at a paid site are more likely to want to give positive reviews. After all, what advertiser will want to buy ads or donate other devices for review if one of their devices got a negative review? Some sources even say they won't publish negative reviews so that they'll "only review products they think are worth buying".

Can reviewers be bought? I'm sure some can -- they're only human. But the review eksystems cited seemed lavish on praise and reserved on criticism. To claim it makes his Mitac sound like crap says more about his bias than the reviewer's, I think.

Steve

[eksystems]

:D
Oh well, I tried,
For the record, the comment about me being a smart alec, I take that as a complement. I have been invloved with Pc's since the birth of the first IBM PC machine, in every capacity, from user to system builder. I work in an industry where the PC is the simple componant and basic work horse of our systems. I have a BSc in electronic engineering plus various secondary computer dimplomas, Smart Alec you say, YOU BET, and proud of it. Not that I will ever say I have noting left to learn, we are moving forward all the time, and I try to keep up.

Not wisheing to offend, but I think you have all missed my point about comaprisons and biased reviewers. I said myself The review in question was not bad BUT it makes unfair comparisons to more expensive machines, I knew its "SO CALLED" limitations when I bought it, I CAN READ SPECS, I was taught to read in school!!!!! (But not to spell!!!!!)

I stand by my original theme, a lot of reviewers are biased and live in a different world to the general buying public. They want everything to be perefect, There should only be ONE type of every product. with every possible feature built in, doesn't matter if we never use them. Take XP or MS Office for example. Graphics cards with s many feaures that the software writers cannot keep up, and then bang, another updated even more complicated piece comes out on the market.

I don't think they ever got the potential out of the 286 let alone a P4

I realise I gave a bad example for my moan, and I can't be bothered to give other examples, but they are there, we have all read the insulting rubbish revewers write about perfectly good pieces of kit.

Come the revolution some of them will be the first?????????

[PetiteFlower]

I agree, there is nothing biased or wrong in that review. She's comparing it to 2 devices in the same price range--the 300mh Dell actually costs LESS. Every review should point out the pros and cons of what is being reviewed; if all they say are good things then that's a bias as well and a lot more dangerous of one since it might lead to someone buying a POS machine because a reviewer overlooked the downsides.

And her complaints were totally valid, if I got that thing home after reading 64M RAM on the box, and discovered there was actually only HALF of that available for my use, I'd feel totally cheated! And not having a removable battery means that when your battery dies a year or 2 from now and won't hold a charge, you can't get a new one, you'll have to buy a whole new machine; plus you can't carry around a spare battery if you need to go on a trip or something and need the extra juice.

At any rate, reviews are fundamentally opinions. I can read specs just fine, but that doesn't REALLY tell me what a device is like. A review is something that can tell me what it feels like in someone's hands, if the processor speed really is enough to run most programs without choking, how long the battery would last in practical use. In fact the biggest problem I have with this review is that it sounds like the writer never actually USED the thing! It doesn't tell me anything that I couldn't have found out from a spec sheet. So it's not a particularly useful review. But not because it pointed out negatives, just because it didn't say anything about how it actually performed! They should call it an article not a review if it's not being written by someone who actually tested the device.

[felixdd]

Reviews have their uses. It gets the opinion of someone who's used the device. You have to agree though -- just seeing the specs of a unit just doesn't you enough. How does the unit feel in your hands? How flimsy is it? Any creaky joints? How does the screen look? Does the buttons have good tactile feel? But when you boil it down it's an opinion -- and everyone's entitled to their opinion, including yours.

But instead of looking at the dispositional side of things (aka saying that reviewers are not impartial in reviews) -- lets look at the situational side. These reviewers get to review everything from top-of-the-line to bottom-of-the-scum-bucket products. The top-of-the-line products, because they've used it, becomes more memorable and thus sets a benchmark for the other devices to follow. So units like the Mitac are bound to fall by the wayside sometimes. IMHO the unit is a thing of beauty -- it's styled the most beautifully of all the PPC's out there. But the point is -- once they've used something good: they can't help but be a tad biased, even if they don't notice it. It's human nature. If reviews are to be 100% accurate:

1) One person can only write one review in their entire life -- and the process of reviewing something becomes a scientific study.

2) It will be impossible, since everyone has their own attitudes and opinions about differen things.

Which brings us back to the "opinions" thing. And you might ask, "what about the good products that *should* set the benchmark for other products to follow, but instead is labelled as 'bad'?" Well -- "good" is a subjective term.

I'm glad you find the Mitac so good to the point of supporting it on PPCT. I would've bought it if it came out a bit sooner and the processor was a bit faster (remember -- it came out before the overclocking programs did). Too bad my Jornada doesn't look as good as the Mitac though...<sigh>.

[spursdude]

Not wisheing to offend, but I think you have all missed my point about comaprisons and biased reviewers. I said myself The review in question was not bad BUT it makes unfair comparisons to more expensive machines, I knew its "SO CALLED" limitations when I bought it, I CAN READ SPECS, I was taught to read in school!!!!! (But not to spell!!!!!)



How much does the Mitac cost in US $$? Unfortunately, even though the Mitac may cost less than the PPCs it was compared to, there's no better comparison to be made. The review compared the Mitac to the cheapest PPCs on the market.

[eksystems]

:o
I must admit I never expected this sort of emotive responce???

I do not know how much the Mitac 338 would cost in Dollars, We British seem to suffer form rip off syndrome. Usually a dollar price is converted straight into UK pounds, in britain it is £200, inc taxes, so I would bet it would equate to about $200 dollars in the USA. BUt then again, on the three occassions I have been lucky enought to vist the USA (and had a wonderful time each visi) I found your prices to be more expensive than I imagined.

Also, at last, someone picked up on the point that it looks like the lady who did the review NeVER actually used the thing other in anger other than when she reviewd it, but contrary to your thoughts, the Mitac was the cheaest by some £50 (UK Prices) Belive me I checked and double checked before I parted with my had earned money?

Also The spec are clear (AT least in the UK)that it uses part of the 64meg for itself. So I bought a 128 meg mmc card to supplyment it, and it still worked out cheaper than the Axim?? for both products. She didn't mention that did she??

i think this thread is slowly coming to its natural end, I have made a point, which although some of you have dis-agreed you have un wittingly exposed reviewers for what they are and I thank you all for your contribution. However I will continue to respond if you good people want to carry this thread on!

I' enjoying this..... :D lets get the emotions running on this and perhaps in the future, professional reviewers will stop comparing Bannanas to apples because they are fruit???

[hollis_f]

I realise I gave a bad example for my moan, and I can't be bothered to give other examples, but they are thereSo you say. But until you can find an example I'll carry on thinking you're talking out of your bottom.

If you want to complain about reviewers try complaining about the ones that write a review by rearranging the words on the press review without actually trying the device they're supposed to be reviewing. Finding an example of that is easy - just find any review of the Fujitsu-Siemans Loox that says you can ActiveSync via Bluetooth.

[eksystems]

:twisted:
I would deduce by your rude comments that you are probably a reviewer of some kind because you can't take the criticism.

You say you want more proof and then give an example of a bad review.

THIS IS THE WHLE POINT OF MY ORIGINAL TOUGHT.

That reviewers do not always have an impartial view. They compare products from much higher spec gear or never actually use it, or base a review on half an hours play with the unit on their desks.

Thanks for backing my argument???

[Pony99CA]

I must admit I never expected this sort of emotive responce???

Emotional posts tend to get emotional replies. :-)

lets get the emotions running on this and perhaps in the future, professional reviewers will stop comparing Bannanas to apples because they are fruit???
You certainly can compare bananas to apples, just as you can compare a Porsche to a Ford Focus (to use an example you mentioned earlier). In fact, I can compare any two things you give me. :-)

The comparison may not make sense in a given context, but anything can be compared. The more closely related two things are, the more contexts exist in which comparisons make sense.

For example, if I'm looking to race a car, I might well say I'd take the Porsche over the Ford Focus. If I'm looking to buy a car for a teenage boy, I might well choose the Focus over the Porsche (much to the chagrin of the boy :-D).

If I want to get from point A to point B quickly, I can compare a Porsche to an apple, but it won't make a lot of sense. A comparison certainly is possible, though.

If I'm hungry, I could equally well compare apples and bananas on things like nutrional value, taste, and so on.

Various Pocket PCs are no different. Some may not fit your budget, some may not do what you want, but they can all be compared. In a comparative review, it's up to you to decide how well your priorities match the reviewer's. Don't fault the reviewer just because he may have different priorities than you. That's like saying people who prefer blondes are stupid because you prefer brunettes.

By the way, YELLOW IS THE BEST COLOR! (For the newbies, that's a reference to an old home page article about preferences.)

Steve

[felixdd]

Dude, check this out:
http://mitac.mic.com.tw/product/showcase2003/files/pda/mio558.pdf

[eksystems]

:cry:
Looks like I have well and truely lost the principle of this this argument.Although I disagree WITH ALL OF YOU??????

I think the principle of what I first said stands and that is that reviewers are not as impartial, or always as honest as they could be? They are dangerous people who, with the odd wrong word, can condem a product into obscurity because they just don't like it, irrespective of weather its any good. Remember that not all computer users are technically savvy, and rely on these people to give real good honest impartial reviews. How many car owner don't have a clue how their car actually works OR WANT TO KNOW? The same goes for PC, PDA etc. Many people don't want to know how they work they just want to know how to use it so they need a man (Or woman)that does know, and they take their word for it.

And the next time I want to buy a peddle bicycle, I will obvioulsy look at reviews and comparisons against a Lear Jet plane, because at the end of the day its a transportation device, the same but slightly different. Costs a bit more etc...............do I re-make my point?????? :wink:


Please feel free to carry this on. I will always reply, and I can take IT , we are a tough breed in England:twisted:

By the way, nice web site you have, I have book marked it for future refernce, I cannot find an English site any where near as good (No I am not being a creep)