Ok, So What Did You Think [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 06:36 AM

Our little experiment with the layout is over. What did you think? I increased the number of front-page posts to 15 because now that they're shorter I had the flexibility to do that. What do you think - better? Worse? I'll let the poll results speak to me, but I'll steal the thunder from some of the people who are waiting to lunge for my throat: I didn't like it very much. Our page already loads pretty fast, and I thought the posts looked too clumped together in this layout. I wanted to try this because so many other sites do it, but for our particular style and community, I don't think it worked very well. The mobile version was pretty ugly too - way more tapping and load time to get to the sub page with the actual story. The front page loaded faster, but I don't think it was worth the trade-off. Votes and polite comments welcome!

Brad Adrian

03-08-2003, 06:41 AM

Thanks for the experiment, Jason. I don't know of any other site that allows readers so much input about this kind of stuff.

Gordo

03-08-2003, 06:48 AM

Please save me from the extra clicks...

spursdude

03-08-2003, 06:55 AM

Yeah, the slightly longer load-time won't bother me as much as it will to have to click 15 different "more" links just to read the full(er) stories.

It was great as it was before the change; still fine after it, but I prefer having the older layout with more information all on one page.

03-08-2003, 06:57 AM

I think it's a good idea, only slightly over done. If you didn't cut out quite as much, it would be perfect. Maybe set a word limit like 100 or something like that. I would like to be able to get a good idea of what is in the post, but have more items on the page at the same time.

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 06:57 AM

It was great as it was before the change; still fine after it, but I prefer having the older layout with more information all on one page.

Well, back in our "single column days", the page was over 300 KB! 8O Way, way too big.

Cracknell

03-08-2003, 06:58 AM

Why not do 'mix'? Some item with full body content, another with the short style.

or do I miss the point of the experimetn all together.

oh, IMHO, sometimes pictures need to get cropped up in size. There also need to be a standard size of image instead of whatever the mod feels like posting.

1. small (majority of images, including just for look pics)
2. medium (cropped up product picture, cropped up screenshot)
3. big (full size screenshot, )
4. special case.

03-08-2003, 07:02 AM

I think that the front page today is what you should feed to other sites - a new Pocket PC news service... :way to go:
JA

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 07:10 AM

Why not do 'mix'? Some item with full body content, another with the short style.

That's what we're going to go back to. We've been using the MORE function here and there, where appropriate for longer content pieces. Like my Canon i950 post for instance - a little too long for the opening page, and a good candidate for the MORE functionality.

Ultimately this experiment was about going to one extreme to see how well it worked. I'm a little surprised to see the vote so close though! 8O

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 07:11 AM

BevHoward

03-08-2003, 07:16 AM

Not sure if this relates to an earlier post about it, but if I may interject a comment about the mobile link....

The mobile site contains only the calendar day, so, if your sched sets the ppc user up to access ppct in the early am hours (central, which is often when I can hit here) you can never get to the content that posts between those hours and the following midnight.

You did post a link to the "full" page via PPC, but it's not "findable" unless you saw that post and had the foresite to favorite it.

I know that I am getting redundant, but it would be really nice for ppc accessers to be able to link to previous content... but I guess that us small screen browsers are in the minority here ;-) (JOKE! Jason, that was HUMOR!!!) ...but seriously, greater small screen access would be nice.

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 07:19 AM

...it would be really nice for ppc accessers to be able to link to previous content...

One of the most important functions we're building into the subscriber services for the site is *complete customization*. You'll be able to pick how many days of content you want access to on the front page of the main site, or the mobile site, and how many items you want on each page. You don't want to see the Handango Top 10 list? You don't have to! Almost every single box on every page can be turned off.

And, best of all, I think we're even going to manage to do font size control on a per-user basis. :D

03-08-2003, 07:22 AM

I think that the front page today is what you should feed to other sites - a new Pocket PC news service... :way to go:
JA

Actually, we have our XML feed for that. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/xml) :-)

Wow, I had no idea that even existed! How many different ways are there to access the data on Pocket PC Thoughts??? Sorry if this is a little OT...
JA

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 07:26 AM

Wow, I had no idea that even existed! How many different ways are there to access the data on Pocket PC Thoughts??? Sorry if this is a little OT...

<shrug> This is one of those threads that will cover a LOT of different topics in a short period of time. :lol:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/mobile.php - that lists our XML feed, mobile options, etc.

R K

03-08-2003, 07:38 AM

What did you think of the layout today?
Huh? What changed? I've been at Brighthand all day.

Ultimately this experiment was about going to one extreme to see how well it worked. I'm a little surprised to see the vote so close though! 8O

:D :) If only those dang Brighthanders would come visit more often. :) :D

djdj

03-08-2003, 08:15 AM

How about an option to allow each user to pick one of the two formats... One for 15 shortened posts, or one for 7-8 regular posts?

Personally I prefer fewer longer posts, but I'm not everybody.

T-Will

03-08-2003, 08:55 AM

Where's the pictures?!?!? There wasn't one on the whole page today! 8O Ok, so this little experiment wasn't too painful, but seriously, I really do like to see neato pictures on the main page. :D I mean, do you actually expect me to read Jason's Pocket PC-biased comments?!?! ;)

Rok

03-08-2003, 09:13 AM

One word for the experimented layout: Overkill

Regards,
Rok

jizmo

03-08-2003, 09:53 AM

I didn't like what it did to the looks of the site but I liked what it might've done for the conversations on this site. The news change so fast that once we get up and running on a certain discussion, it disappears from the front page same day and the conversation stops there.

PPCThoughts is a great news site, but the interaction between the readers is what really makes this site worth reading.

/jizmo

surur

03-08-2003, 10:27 AM

Like most, I prefer the fuller site. In fact what I *really* liked was the original site (you know, where the whole site was formatted for the pocketpc screen) which I really thought was in keeping with the pocketpc enthusiast thing. But I guess the site is professionalizing (if that is even a real word) and there is now alot of talk of subscription (would the ads then disappear?).

The main thing that I am wondering (if Jason would be so open) is if the site is having a bandwith crunch? and is that due to popularity, or a yearly bill finally coming due. It would be a pity to kill what makes a site popular just for the sake of a "look".

Anyways, I guess that is a No vote.

Surur

Venturello

03-08-2003, 11:25 AM

I was not at brighthand... but sleeping. Last night when I went to bed site was a usual. 8O Shame I missed it!

sfjlittel

03-08-2003, 11:50 AM

I really liked the "old" layout and i think the multiple pages at the bottom are a good solution for a very long page. But I think that a little more text won´t really take up very much bandwidth, but the pictures do, so if they were shrunk like suggested earlier, that would probably help.

Jonathon Watkins

03-08-2003, 11:59 AM

Having at least 100 words, or complete smaller articles on the front may be best if the front page needs to shrink. Thanks for trying new things Jason. Appreciated. :!:

pocketpcdude1024

03-08-2003, 12:58 PM

gibb-a

03-08-2003, 01:48 PM

I voted for the old layout. However, maybe the "more" option can be applied to certain categories such as the Off-Topic posts? I know I can filter them out but I like seeing a bit about them first, in case I want to read further.

deich

03-08-2003, 02:26 PM

You have a wonderful site. There are only two sites I visit daily, and yours is one of them.

I have mixed feelings about the format experiment. Overall, I thought the experiment was a good compromise between a "news headlines" format and long scrolling over topics I don't care about.

The only think I didn't like was the "tease" posts, which promise very interesting information if only I follow the link. Give us the bottom line, and let us poke around for more if we're interested.

Definately, screenshots and pics should be on a link.

Just my humble opinion....

DrtyBlvd

03-08-2003, 02:28 PM

Old layout for me - That's part of the pleasure of the site - 'Bang, there it is' sort of thing... I think PPCT has the right balance - some sites out there are shining examples of too much one way or the other - I like the current 'balance' here :D and that's why I don't 'frequent' the other sites available...

I don't think this suggested change would be for the better :D

Ed Hansberry

03-08-2003, 02:34 PM

I'm with Jason on this. I like the old way better. More bloggish like the original PPCT layout was, which suits this site just fine. :D We, and me especially, should use the (more) tag more often. I sometimes think that tag was made because of me. I sometimes had a full page post on the front page and that was when the text filled the whole screen left to right! :oops:

Back to the pics and bullet points though! w00t!

daveh

03-08-2003, 02:37 PM

Since you do such a great job filtering the news, I usually read 80% of the posts to the end. So, I would rather not click for each one. However, if I only read 20% of the content to completion, then the experimantal page would work better. But that is not why I come here so often and why it is the best PPC site. Hope that makes sense.

RavenSBNC

03-08-2003, 02:53 PM

Definatly the old one, with my really slow connection it takes over a minute of load time every time I have to click one of those more links, so I ended up barely reading any of the articles yesterday but if it had been the original way without the more buttons I would have read almost all of them.

Gordo

03-08-2003, 02:54 PM

Why not do 'mix'? Some item with full body content, another with the short style.
Taking this thought a step further, why not have the first page with fewer stories but longer text, once a story is relegated to the subsequent pages then it would only have a fixed number of words followed by "more", and maybe even remove any pictures.

Sean Murphy

03-08-2003, 03:27 PM

I hit this site's home page 10 or so times a day (I know I am a freak) but I like to see the new articles when they go up. I like to hit one page and see all the info in one spot. I don't want to have to click on every article just to get the gist of what it is about (but I will adapt if need be). If however you are going to use the 100 word format than please let us know what to expect when clicking on the more button. Are you going to have pictures, screen shots, a long article or review or will it be like the "What Are You Saying About Pocket PC Thoughts?" article where there were only two additional lines on the new page.

I would commend you for always putting the link on the home page though, I stopped visiting PPCPassion because I didn't like having to search through the message boards to find the link on most of their posts.

JMountford

03-08-2003, 03:37 PM

you needed a choice that was either "aaakkk more clicks, but I can deal" or "I don't care either way" I would fit into those.

Reinaldo

03-08-2003, 03:55 PM

The experiemnt was nice and I value the way it was done but I really liked the way it was before with the stories on the main page. And the pics! :lol: The Pics make PPCT Pocket PC Thoughts. :wink:

Seroiusly though, leave the site the way it was. I really prefered the site as a fuller page. It never bothered me.

PJE

03-08-2003, 04:48 PM

Hi Jason,

I think the faster front page load time is a benefit, but the lack of images and the multiple presses to get the full information more than offset this. The page started to look a little uniform and dare I say it bland :(

What I'd like to see is a layout more like www.mobilemag.com (http://www.mobilemag.com/) which adds small images (reducing the bandwidth) to the text. Clicking on the item should go straight to the discussion page which should include the rest if the text if it needed to be edited down.

Using HTML it should be possible to differentiate the different sections without using icons (which I never look at!) a different color box surrounding the image/header would be sufficient.

My 2c

PJE

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 05:41 PM

Thanks for the feedback!

In fact what I *really* liked was the original site (you know, where the whole site was formatted for the pocketpc screen) which I really thought was in keeping with the pocketpc enthusiast thing.

Well, the original site was a bit problematic too - the central column had no fixed width, which made readability a bit difficult. There's a reason magazine and newspapers have columns. :-) But the mobile site is like this, which should make you at least partially happy. ;-)

But I guess the site is professionalizing (if that is even a real word) and there is now alot of talk of subscription (would the ads then disappear?).

Yes, as a subscriber you'll be able to turn off almost every zone - which includes the ads.

The main thing that I am wondering (if Jason would be so open) is if the site is having a bandwith crunch? and is that due to popularity, or a yearly bill finally coming due.

No, we're doing "ok" in terms of bandwidth - I have 400 GB of bandwidth a month, and we're using about 230 GB. The rise in bandwidth is due to the popularity of the site, but also the layout. I needed to include ads to pay my bills, but the ads also increase the overall bandwidth cost...it's a catch-22. :wink:

yawanag

03-08-2003, 05:41 PM

IMHO "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." We like it here, Jason, that's why we visit so often. :lol:

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 05:42 PM

I didn't like what it did to the looks of the site but I liked what it might've done for the conversations on this site. The news change so fast that once we get up and running on a certain discussion, it disappears from the front page same day and the conversation stops there.

I agree. Any suggestions on how we can address that?

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 05:45 PM

As much as I like coming to this site 20x a day, I think that it would really be neat if every time a story pops up on the front page, I get an email that has the story in it! That way, I could just check my email, sync to my Pocket PC, and read the stories offline on my Pocket PC!

That's exactly what subscribers are going to get. We're working very hard on this feature and should be able to start testing in the next week. Subscribers will have the ability to specify:

a) Which categories they want emailed to them
b) How many messages they want per day
c) Choose between a message every post or a daily digest
d) Get a weekly digest that flags all the "hot" stories
e) Maybe a few other things :D

As a subscriber, you'll get the news within minutes of us posting it.

Now the Pocket PC sync is a bit trickier - Pocket Inbox doesn't support HTML. :cry: So we're going to have to make our HTML messages "strip down" properly for Pocket Inbox to read.

Hyperluminal

03-08-2003, 05:46 PM

Jason, I don't think you should do 'More' at all, except maybe for very long posts. It's really nice just being able to scan down the page and read the articles. It's very annoying having to click on each one, so I didn't really read much news yesterday either.

Hyperluminal

03-08-2003, 05:48 PM

How will the subscription be charged? I mean, will it be monthly, yearly, or a one time fee?

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 05:49 PM

Jason Dunn

03-08-2003, 05:51 PM

How will the subscription be charged? I mean, will it be monthly, yearly, or a one time fee?

I'm not prepared to reveal what the prices will be (a survey will help decide that), but there will be an option for monthly, six months, yearly, or lifetime subscription. The longer the term, the lower the daily/monthly fee. I think you'll find them very reasonable.

Wojo

03-08-2003, 06:18 PM

I'm in agreement with most of the users, that the "More" function is used on longer posts.

But I think that when you click "More" it should go to the "Discuss/Reply" side of the site. I really didn't care for the:

Main page, click
More page, click
Discuss page

I guess being a PPC user has made me more impatient when it comes to tapping and clicking :)

PJE

03-08-2003, 10:17 PM

What I'd like to see is a layout more like www.mobilemag.com (http://www.mobilemag.com/) which adds small images (reducing the bandwidth) to the text. Clicking on the item should go straight to the discussion page which should include the rest if the text if it needed to be edited down.

The time needed to manually create images like that for *every* post would be astronomical. And you can't switch over to a system like that unless you're going to do it for *every* post. So, as much as I like the way it looks (very slick), that's not a solution we can implement considering the volume and rapid updates that we do. You'll notice that site does about three to five updates per day. We do four times that on an average day.

I can see it would take some time... unless there's an automated way to do it? You could load the image move the fixed size box over it to select the detail and press a key to generate the image complete with PpcT logo...

PaintshopPro 8 which is out in beta has a scripting engine... One of the sample scripts takes the image and converts it into a thumbnail. Surely it would be relatively easy to have a layer for the PpcT logo/image frame and have any sized image automatically scaled and the frame added without too much thought... It would probably be able to batch convert all the images in a directory and place the manipulated images into a second directory.

I'd much prefer smaller images on as may items on the front page as possible and leave the larger image for the ..more or discussion pages.

If you'd like I'll have a go at getting PSP8 to do this for you.

PJE