Round Tripping - Oh The Shame Of It All, Part II

[Ed Hansberry]

In early February I <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8375">linked to a Wall Street Journal column</a> about the exciting world of round-tripping and how it is an overall embarrassing experience compared to the world of Palm. Fixing this is not so simple and it goes beyond coding.<br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2003/20030225-pocketoffice.gif" /><br />Ed Hardy at Brighthand has written an <a href="http://www.brighthand.com/article/Future_of_Pocket_Office">article discussing</a> the ramifications of MS whipping up a top notch Pocket Office suite on the third party market, the ramifications of the Pocket PC community of MS doing nothing and a few things in between. We discussed much of this at the MVP Summit two weeks ago. I don't recall seeing Ed in the room but he seems to have covered just about everything we talked about.<!><br /><br />A perfect example of Microsoft doing nothing has given us superb apps like <a href="http://www.softmaker.de/tmp_en.htm">TextMaker</a>, <a href="http://www.byedesign.freeserve.co.uk/">SpreadCE</a> and <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=83840">Pocket Slides</a>, but those all cost money and to avoid round tripping problems, require custom configurations in ActiveSync. Microsoft is indeed in a tough position here. What do you think?

[Foo Fighter]

I sincerely hope Microsoft does improve the built-in Office apps, or existing third party apps continue to improve. Because judging from the rabid Anti-Microsoft attitude of DataViz it will be a cold day in hell before they offer Documents To Go for Pocket PC. :roll:

[ploeg]

Well, there's the Microsoft way:

1. Do nothing.
2. Wait for a market leader to emerge (e.g. PowerPoint or Visio).
3. Snap the company up.

[Jason Dunn]

I sincerely hope Microsoft does improve the built-in Office apps, or existing third party apps continue to improve. Because judging from the rabid Anti-Microsoft attitude of DataViz it will be a cold day in hell before they offer Documents To Go for Pocket PC. :roll:

Don't be so sure that the reason they're not doing it is from being anti-Microsoft...it could be they don't want to get crushed when Microsoft decides to invest resources into making it work right. :!:

[Foo Fighter]

Don't be so sure that the reason they're not doing it is from being anti-Microsoft...it could be they don't want to get crushed when Microsoft decides to invest resources into making it work right. :!:

You're right, that is part of it, but DataViz does have an anti-MS attitude. I've read many postings by DV reps in message boards...they hate MS...hate PPC. Iambic is another good example of this.

[Ed Hansberry]

You're right, that is part of it, but DataViz does have an anti-MS attitude. I've read many postings by DV reps in message boards...they hate MS...hate PPC. Iambic is another good example of this.
From everything I've heard, SpreadCE and TextMaker mop the floor with DataViz, so why do you even want them on the Pocket PC?

[Duncan]

It is possible that this:

You're right, that is part of it, but DataViz does have an anti-MS attitude. I've read many postings by DV reps in message boards...they hate MS...hate PPC. Iambic is another good example of this.

May be because of this:

they don't want to get crushed when Microsoft decides to invest resources into making it work right.

[ux4484]

They really should do something with the built in office apps, as it (IMO) only adds to the anti-PPC perception that PPC is feature disabled purposely to not compete with laptop licences.

[Foo Fighter]

May be because of this:


Why, the same problem exists in the PalmOS platform as well. Palm and Sony each bundle DataViz's Doc to Go office suite with with many of their products. So where does this leave Cutting Edge (QuickOffice)...or Wordsmith? Aren't they getting "crushed" in the same manner?

[Larrison]

I can't figure out what MS is thinking here. I'll use my case for example -- I do M&A work, so around 80-90% of my emails use MS Outlook encryption. But hey.. you can't read them on my iPAQ... *Huh?*

Probably 60-70% of the documents I see are powerpoint presentations. You'd think that something that is heavily graphics oriented and designed to put the maximum message in as few words as possible would be *perfect* for the Pocket PC. But hey... you can't read them on my iPAQ. *Huh?*

Now, MS isn't stupid. So what the *$$## are they thinking?

The most charitable answer is that they either thought they were going to be constrained by hardware or software coding time limits -- but given the success of PocketPC in the market and the new hardware coming out they'd be working to fix these holes as fast as possible. But it appears they aren't... ????

The next most charitable answer is they don't expect PDAs to remain in the market, and their entry with PPCs was just counter Palm. Then as the market moves to Tablets and the like, they clean up that market and let the PDA market wither on the vine. But this doesn't seem to ring true as well, since the tablet market is unproven and highly speculative whereas the installed base of PDAs is very large. Not a good business decision to leave it alone and not be competitive..

All in all, I'm quite puzzled by MS not working as fast as they can to fill the holes in the PPC Pocket Office solutions.

[Bill Gunn]

They really should do something with the built in office apps, as it (IMO) only adds to the anti-PPC perception that PPC is feature disabled purposely to not compete with laptop licences.

I don't doubt that it's true. If a Pocket PC had a usable subset of Office on it and could print EASILY to a network printer then my college bound daughter would not need a laptop. A PPC with a good add on keyboard would do the trick nicely and fit comfortably in her backpack. And, a decent PPC with a keyboard and LAN adapter can be had for under $500 US.

[Macguy59]

You're right, that is part of it, but DataViz does have an anti-MS attitude. I've read many postings by DV reps in message boards...they hate MS...hate PPC. Iambic is another good example of this.
From everything I've heard, SpreadCE and TextMaker mop the floor with DataViz, so why do you even want them on the Pocket PC?

The problem is that even if DataViz were to port DTG to PPC, they would be charging a fee for it. Palm users get this dandy Office alternative for free. As I commented on the Brighthand board, my Tungsten w/DTG is a better "Office" on the road combo then my 1910 w/builtin apps. It's not even close.

[Duncan]

Why, the same problem exists in the PalmOS platform as well. Palm and Sony each bundle DataViz's Doc to Go office suite with with many of their products. So where does this leave Cutting Edge (QuickOffice)...or Wordsmith? Aren't they getting "crushed" in the same manner?

Much as I like my Pocket PC, and staunchly defend the Windows OS (XP version at least), MS Office and many other MSapps... MS DO have a rep for buying up or destroying their competition... On the Palm, even though you have Docs To Go bundled there is no reason to suppose that either DataViz might (or would want to) crush the opposition. Some people presumably prefer to purchase another piece of Office software for their Palm.

FWIW - I don't think MS would crush anyone offering Office apps for the Pocket PC - but I can understand the fear!

[Gerard]

I haven't used a recent version of SpreadCE, as I have very little use for Excel junk except for the most basic accounting, invoicing, and client record spreadsheet templates and files. But for Word docs, TextMaker does come very close to replacing the PC version. The one big thing in the way is the lack of printing ability from within the program. Sure, I can make a new doc in the PPC, or dump one from my PC into a CF card and open it in TextMaker and have it appear intact, ready for editing, but I cannot print it with images and tables intact. Even basic formatting gets toasted if I use FieldSoftware PrintPocketCE or PrintBoyCE to print anything but the most stripped-down docs. That's just inadequate. I have an IrDA printer, I have two Pocket PCs with tons of excellent software, but if I can't print documents which are intended for paper distribution, all that functionality is pretty close to irrelevant. I'm still tied to my PC to print.
So, what's Microsoft doing about that? Nothing. Not a word about printing. Not even a vague promise. What's SoftMaker doing about it? They are investigating, but are having trouble with the problems of printing from within the app, and are considering a module approach at some future date. There is also talk of a possible licensing deal, but enthusiasm for that within SoftMaker is very weak. Pricing is an issue. What's FieldSoftware doing about it? Well, the odd new feature or bugfix comes out, but printing of Excel and Word docs remains very limited.
I go on about printing because I seek independence from the PC, utterly. This is hardly a prevalent standpoint, but for many 'mobile users' I think similar motivation applies. Often it's just impractical to have to wait to get back to the office for printing. Hence the surge recently in network printer access software and related tools... all for hefty pricetags.

[TawnerX]

Printing believe it or not isn't exactly trivial issue. Anybody remember how nasty printing was in the 80's/early 90's duing DOS/Win3.1? And how Apple finally get it right with laser printer? Nobody can even print a web browser page until well into the mid 90's. It also wasn't until mid 90's printing in windows is a plug & print kinda situation. Having said that, I think printing facility should be part of the OS, and Microsoft better hurry up and think of clean solution rather than current hodgepodge of 3rd party printing solution where they all going to get dumped in a unified solution anyway. so either take the pain now, or later.



The problem is that even if DataViz were to port DTG to PPC, they would be charging a fee for it. Palm users get this dandy Office alternative for free. As I commented on the Brighthand board, my Tungsten w/DTG is a better "Office" on the road combo then my 1910 w/builtin apps. It's not even close.

Wordsmith and Quick office are really dead and irrelevant in the wake of DTG being adopted by Palm and Sony. That's exactly what Microsoft is trying not to do and being schizophrenic and including crippled ware office.

[Speed Racer]

In my opinion I think that the built in apps are very misleading especially with the way that they are advertised.

Excerpt from the official PocketPC website
"Applications for the Windows Powered Pocket PC feature a familiar interface and consistent functionality, so they're easy to learn and use right away. Pocket versions of popular Microsoft applications let you easily update and share the same data and documents that you have on your desktop PC."

I hate the fact that you can not even view a Word document without it trashing and being forced to save the changes when you hit the OK button to close the document.

I can understand why MS is wary of spending resources on improving the included apps (time, moeny, and hesisitant 3rd party developers). I can respect that decision. If that is the road they have choosen then they should make it as easy as possible for 3rd party developers to clean up all of the bugs that exist in the current programs (i.e. PocketWord and PocketExcel and their respective conversions in ActiveSync should be open source and well documented). Without providing that information MS is inadvertantly stifiling the PocketPC.

[Timothy Rapson]

I think Microsoft has played it perfectly. They got into the PDA market just when it looked like Palm might get it's Audrey into every home and the III, V, and IIIC into every palm. That would have hurt Microsoft bad. They had to try to stop that.

As it turned out, Palm didn't get to rule the world and Audrey bombed. I am still not sure why. Probably the $400 rebates MS offered that gave lots of Emachines buyers free desktops with 3 year MSN contracts.

Anyway, I have been amazed to watch it develop. I am really only interested in Word, but I wondered if there was ever going to be a Textmaker. After seeing what MS did to Lotus, WordPerfect, and all the other desktop software companies I did not think anyone would write a real word processor. MS thought they would. MS was right. I was wrong.

The tons of Paint Programs for PPC from Pocket Sketch for $15 or so to PocketArtist at $50 show tremendous potential on the PPC platform. MS dropped PocketPaint altogether.

I don't know about spreadsheets and presentations.

Overall, I think PPC has 2-5 times the software available for it, than I'd have expected by this time, and it seems to have every basic category covered. I think PocketArtist and Textmaker are overpriced, but with such a small market, how can they make money if they charge any less for these huge, complex, powerhouses?

Overall, I think MS handled it just right so far. If they cut Textmaker off at the knees by upgrading PocketWord now, it will be a whole different ball game, but so far, it looks like it played out exactly as MS intended.

[Timothy Rapson]

Printing believe it or not isn't exactly trivial issue. Anybody remember how nasty printing was in the 80's/early 90's duing DOS/Win3.1? And how Apple finally get it right with laser printer? .

In my humble opinion MS thought they were fixing the printing issues with controlling everything. In my experience they have messed up as much as they fixed. I have had several programs that printed just fine by themselves. They even worked well under Windows because they got around the buggy print spooling (how many of us got error after error trying to print all with the dialog box that said "UAE caused by Program: Print Spooler") It was so sad.

My favorite card maker even had a little dislplay that told you how to feed the paper back through to get it to print the inside. All gone now that Windows (from 95 on) won't let the program touch the printing. So, it just crashes now, or prints upside down, or leaves 2 words of the second page all alone on a sheet and then prints page three without them. In spite of the Windows print preview looking just as you want it.

Ah well, rant session done. Go back to where we were.

[Cliffbrooks]

I think the problem with Microsoft's implementation of Pocket Office applications is probably due to the fact that they assumed users would only want to use their PDAs for light, simple documentation/spreadsheet tasks. I'm a writer, not a number cruncher, so I was a bit troubled by their decision, but fully understand it. I don't think their plan was to position the Pocket PC as a laptop replacement, though that's what appears to have happened in many cases as third party manufacturers release all manner of PDA extension products such as keyboards and extended storage devices.

I haven't played with the alternatives much, but I'd assume that tables and graphics and such on the small screen of the PDA, or heaven forbid, the even smaller amount of real estate on most Palm PDAs, is neither pleasant nor practical. I may be wrong, and likely I'll be told so, but I think Microsoft's thinking was that user's would gravitate toward simple tasks such as maintaining expenses in Pocket Excel, or writing up some notes for a speech in Pocket Word. To assume that they crippled the product to sell more desktop/laptop versions seems unlikely, as most PDA users will have both. After all, the PDA is positioned as an extension of the desktop/laptop, not a replacement. That said, it appears Microsoft was wrong in their assessment, but I have a feeling that their assessment was based, at least in part, on customer feedback.

Long live the Pocket PC!

[GO-TRIBE]

Just my 2 cents on what I think MS will do IMHO:

The main problem stopping the current bread of desktop and PPC Office apps from working seamlessly together is the file format. Now that MS is changing the file format to XML in Office 2003, they will solve a whole host of problems and enable to seamless use of Office documents not only on the PPC, but also from web apps, etc.

I think MS will add some new functionality to Pocket Office (like support for tables and maybe printing), but the key will be perfect synchronization thanks to the new file formats. Note that you will need Office 2003 and Pocket Office 2003 for this to be possible.

[Foo Fighter]

...MS Office and many other MSapps... MS DO have a rep for buying up or destroying their competition...

Office especially. MS lured Lotus into into basing their architecture on OLE while they themselves were secretly moving to ActiveX.

Still, let's not forget that Microsoft's competitors share some of the blame in their own demise. Lotus again being a good example. The office suite continued to stagnate and never improved. SmartSuite was my favorite office platform. I loved Organizer...but the damn thing never got a makeover for 5 years! By the time Office 2000 rolled around, Smartsuite looked more like Windows 3.1 era software. 8O

Not entirely Microsoft's fault.

On the Palm, even though you have Docs To Go bundled there is no reason to suppose that either DataViz might (or would want to) crush the opposition. Some people presumably prefer to purchase another piece of Office software for their Palm.

How inclined are consumers going to be to buy replacement software when what they have bundled is more than enough. Great for DataViz...bad for QuickOffice. Not a "crushing" blow perhaps, but certainly a painful poke in the eye.

[Gerard]

That argument, that Microsoft failed to anticipate the use of the PPC as a notebook replacement, it used to hold water. I mean, it did if one was willing to accept that hundreds, or even thousands of Microsoft employees and consultants were so very blind that they failed to see the monstrous potential of the platform. However, with dozens of third-party developers and Microsoft itself all racing to add as much networking access to the PPC as possible, this no longer provides a viable excuse for lame, document-destroying Pocket Word and Pocket Excel 'functionality'. With direct corporate network access, imagine the nightmare for IT workers when employees casually edit a shared spreadsheet and upload the new, improved version to the corporate server. Got a really fresh backup, one hopes? Otherwise, lots and lots of data from other employees may just get lost in the dumbing-down-shuffle.
I was a new computer user just under 3 years ago, never having touched one (mostly out of fear, partly out of poverty) prior to having a Casio E-115. Within 6 months I was thinking 'hey, I had to buy a notebook PC and learn to use it to support this thing, but I'm thinking maybe I won't need the notebook much longer... ' or something pretty close to that. I started saying things like that in PPC discussion forums about another 6 months later, after only a year using a PPC. With a keyboard, CF modem, CF camera, 6GB hard drive, tons of amazing software (most of the best stuff being freeware), all the PC gets used for any more is encoding music and video, and the odd PPC-proof installer package (why do developers do that??). Otherwise, it sits gathering dust. I boot up the PC for perhaps an average of an hour a week. It's a PPC accessory, and that's all it ever has been for me. I don't need to work on it, as the PPC provides all the practical tools I need. Another poster mentioned that the small screen may be too difficult to edit docs on, with images and tables and all... Well, sure, it's a bit difficult. One must get used to scrolling around a bit, and for composional stuff the 'fit to screen' preview in TextMaker is needed frequently, as are the various zoom levels. But it's really not that difficult, if one is generally comfortable working with the small screen. I get it from some users that the 'tiny' screen is ridiculous to work with for anything but PIM stuff. Okay, so that defines such people as wanting big screens, fine. I happen to feel that the property of the human eye which allows defined focus with only the middle 10% or less of the field of vision is an important one. The PPC screen fits my eyes just about right. For checking formatting, I wouldn't mind a screen about twice the size, and same goes for still and video viewing. I predict that a mid-sized PDA will be released in the next few years, something that won't fit into a shirt pocket (why should it, when leaning forward can then kill it?), but fits very neatly into a small camera bag or other little pouch. Something about 18mm thick and about 4" x 6" or a little bigger would be very welcome, provided it has built-in CD, SD, and even an RJ-11 jack and internal hardware modem, as well as a full size folding keyboard designed to match.
I think the vision of Microsoft is somewhat more limited that many give them credit for. I mean, everybody knows that Microsoft has always lived off the backs of other developers... But I think they are often too blind even to see the full value of such good ideas!

[bcaray]

Jeff Kirvin wrote a great article about this www.writingonyourpalm.net/column020325.htm . He makes an interesting point. MS cannot make the PPC just like a smaller version of the TabletPC or they will target the same consumers.

[Gerard]

If that's their thinking, they might do well to consider a snazzy marketing campaign, rather than almost completely leaving the PPC alone in terms of advertising. Something along the lines of:
"Hey man, now you can have ME and MiniME - a full-on computer for when there's time and room, a little guy for those tight squeezes"
(okay, so I won't quite my day job just yet)

[Jonathan1]

The article references what would happen to 3rd party developers if Microsoft released better versions of Word and Excel. I know this is going to piss off some people and sound somewhat callous, but screw third party apps. Microsoft shouldn’t have to cater to 3rd party developers when it comes to their own products. What was the original intention of these third party apps? To fill the gaps that Pocket Word and Pocket Excel left open right? They HAD to know that Microsoft would eventually step up to the plate and fix their problems. As did Asher know that Adobe would eventually release a Pocket PC version of Reader. And to be bluntly honest it is Microsoft’s product. They have every right to update it to make it better.
Then there is the $50 price tag on these 3rd party Word replacement apps. If bundled with the Pocket PC the price may be jacked up a few dollars to compensate for enhanced version of Word and Excel but that’s nothing in comparison to the $50 that some vendors are charging.

I somewhat agree with Brighthand’s “Improve Pocket Office and Offer It for Sale” method but only in a round about way. Word and Excel are easily the two most used Office applications of the family. These should continue to be bundled into the system. Brighthand suggested that we pay for a “enhanced” version. I personally think this is a REALLY bad idea. Microsoft already has a bad rep for sticking it to the end user when it comes to prices. You bundle the price of the basic version of Word\Excel into the price of a Pocket PC just to make a user turn around and buy it again and you are going to end up with some very pissed off users asking why they didn’t just bundle it with the system in the first place. Lets not get people confused with the apps that are available with the Pocket PC. Stick with one set of products. Pocket Word, Pocket Excel.
However I believe that PowerPoint and Access should NOT be bundled with the Pocket PC. Before you flame my butt :onfire: (I've always wanted to use that icon. :) ) listen.
Adding bundleware to the Pocket PC increases the price of the OS does it not? It increases the amount of ROM that is used as well. The average user off the street couldn't care less about PowerPoint or Access. By and large these are business applications. Hence the reason MS creates several different bundles of Office XP - Not everyone uses the included apps.
IMHO I believe that MS should continue to focus on Pocket Word and Pocket Excel...BUT....isn't there always a but…..Create a Plus! Pack for the Pocket PC that includes Pocket PowerPoint, Pocket Access, templates, etc that a business user would find useful. This way you are doing several things:
-Giving the end user the choice of going with someone else’s software or Microsoft's.
-Not further bloating ROM and potentially jacking the price of the system up.
-2 words…corp licenses. Come on! Microsoft loves those two words. Its like candy to them. By creating these apps outside the PPC companies could license a plus! Pack for only specific users who really have a use for them. It could end up saving companies money.

*shrugs* My 2 cents on the subject.

[possmann]

There are many good third party apps that Microsoft could easily purchase and use to REPLACE their current solution.
I agree that something needs to be done – but one unwavering condition must exist first – that if given the option to “upgrade” from a Pocket Word Lite or Pocket Excel Lite version, that the upgraded/premier version of these apps REPLACES the versions currently stored in ROM. Why should I get dinged on the memory side if I opt to replace what is offered. I would gladly use another Word or Excel program, but the cost in base memory but only if it replaces what I don’t use.
Yes, you can make the argument of memory cards holding a ton of data, but you should not be forced into sacrificing space for an application you never use – even if it comes “free”. At the very least, MS should give us the option of what applications we want loaded into ROM while “Setting up” a hand held – now that would be really cool ;)

[Ed Hansberry]

The article references what would happen to 3rd party developers if Microsoft released better versions of Word and Excel. I know this is going to piss off some people and sound somewhat callous, but screw third party apps. Microsoft shouldn’t have to cater to 3rd party developers when it comes to their own products.
Kill 3rd party apps, kill the platform. Plain and simple.

Look at the PIMs. Pocket Informant and Agenda Fusion walk all over the built in PIMs. If MS halfheartedly beefs up their PIMs to be 50% of what PI/AF are, PI and AF lose a HUGE chunk of their customers that will be ok with that 50% vs paying $25+ for the products.

Can you imagine the Powerpoint situation if MS threw in the Pocket Powerpoint app from the HPC? Woope doo - edit the cover slide. No one would have entered the market. Instead, MS threw resources somewhere else and out pops a number of good PowerPoint apps. Ditto Pocket Access.

It took SoftMaker nearly 3 years from the time the original PPC shipped to get up the courage and time to do Textmaker. If MS had not bothered to do anything with Pocket Word and Pocket Excel, we'd probably already have a number of good solutions available. The truth is, Pocket Excel/Word have done more to harm the platform in their current form than help for the power user. For the average user, the apps are fine. So many people don't even realize Excel can do more than =sum()

[Duncan]

)If MS do a real WP for the PPC then it may be designed by the same team who were responsible for ActiveSync - i.e. crap.

SoftMaker have, in TextMaker, produced something that is incredibly competent and complex but will have a limited appeal from a small but demanding group. Frankly it is worth the money. Sometimes smaller means more expensive because it is harder to achieve.

Ed is right (I don't say that too often :wink: ) - the bult in apps fulfil the needs of many - more power is available, for those who want it, from third party providers. Long may this continue.

Perhaps if MS had called Pocket Word, Pocket WordPad (as it is in WinCE.net) and left out Excel we wouldn't have waited so long for TextMaker and it might have been cheaper! Or how about Pocket Works?

[Jonathan1]

Kill 3rd party apps, kill the platform. Plain and simple.
That is true Ed but how many Word and Excel solutions are on the market right now? The only real Word substitute, AFAIK, is TextMaker. There isn't really a huge market for Word Excel substitutes and it’s not like it would collapse the entire pocket pc software market. I guess I wasn't specific in my comment. I'm not as concerned about 3rd party Office apps.

Perhaps if MS had called Pocket Word, Pocket WordPad (as it is in WinCE.net) and left out Excel we wouldn't have waited so long for TextMaker and it might have been cheaper! Or how about Pocket Works?

Hmm ya that would work. Leave excel out altogether and call Pocket Word WordPad instead. I wouldn't oppose that simply because MAYBE you would get other developers to get the nerve to make Office Apps. The only problem though, AFAICT, is that from the beginning the Pocket PC was positioned as an all in one solution wasn't it? This would be moving from an all in one solution to a "Windows type solution" where the provided apps are kinda crappy.


It really boils down to which way MS wants to go. Should they back off, stay stagnant, or push ahead. You could debate it any way since there are people that don't want Word or Excel, people that are happy with what they have, and people that want more.

I personally am in the third camp. Microsoft knows how to make their products interact with one on other better then anyone. If I was going to get a Word product from anyone I _REALLY_ would want it from Microsoft. I bought Office XP from them why wouldn't I want a pocket version from them as well?

[phaeton]

I wouldn't mind a screen about twice the size, and same goes for still and video viewing. I predict that a mid-sized PDA will be released in the next few years, something that won't fit into a shirt pocket (why should it, when leaning forward can then kill it?), but fits very neatly into a small camera bag or other little pouch. Something about 18mm thick and about 4" x 6" or a little bigger would be very welcome, provided it has built-in CD, SD, and even an RJ-11 jack and internal hardware modem, as well as a full size folding keyboard designed to match.
How about this? :wink:
http://www.hp-expo.com/productimages_170x190/f4356a.gif

[Tom W.M.]

What a horrible site! I went to the site to read the article, but couldn't! The page just displayed blank. I had to paste the URL into iExplorer to get it to render! This isn't a great way to get Netscape user readership. :evil:

[baralong]

I'd like to have a more full featured pocket word, but I can't justify the cost of textmaker, I just don't do enough document editing on the PDA. What would be good to see is an active sync based merge utility. As a compromise that'd work for me. If I sync a word document with my PDA, ok convert it down so I only get the basic features, but when it goes back up give me the option to merge in text changes, side by side doc compare would be OK.

For pocket excel I'm frustrated that they killed graphs, even my delapidated HP95lx could do that. Also macros would be good.

I have to admit that every so often I pop over to www.openoffice.org in the vain hope that someone would have started a port to the PocketPC. I know it'd be a huge task, but hey I can dream.

[Tom W.M.]

Huge? I'll say. It's a 50MB dowload, and that's compressed!

Besides, it's dead slow on 400 mhz machine, and my Athlon 1200 is still slow to start it up.

UPDATE: The standard installation is ~160 MB!

[Cracknell]

I have to admit that every so often I pop over to www.openoffice.org in the vain hope that someone would have started a port to the PocketPC. I know it'd be a huge task, but hey I can dream.

well partially good news, It seems somebod is porting GTK to PPC, It's a key element to all UNIX/Windows cross platform apps like openoffice.

If that part run, everything else is cream puff.

[Wojo]

Before anyone flames me I have to say that I'm a huge supporter of the PPC so this rant on MS does not represent how I feel about the platform. :lol:


I feel MS has misled the consumer by putting the names Word and Excel on these applications. As we all know in the PC world these applications would be called Works and Spreadsheet. So why didn't MS just call this Pocket Works? Because they know that we know Works SUCKS. So by mislabeling these applications the consumer was led to believe that they were purchasing a device that was compatible with Word and Excel.

Now for the resolution. They should strip both of these apps out of the ROM so we have more space for future upgrades. They should offer Pocket Word and Excel with Office and fix it. Make us pay for what we want and stop providing us useless applications that eat up precious ROM space. If they want to provide something all it should be is a viewer and that's it.

One of the biggest issues I have with PWord (I'm not a big word processor person) is the lack of basic keyboard shortcut commands. I own a Stowaway Keyboard and I have to tap the friggin screen in order to Bold the text. Heeelllloooo. What happened to CTRL + B. It's things like this that pisses the consumer off. If you're going to create an application FINISH IT.

[ctmagnus]

One of the biggest issues I have with PWord (I'm not a big word processor person) is the lack of basic keyboard shortcut commands.

One word: WordCommands.

Gerard (IIRC) did this up so you can just use the standard shortcut keys to do da*n near anything you can do on desktop Word.