Dell Moving IT and R&D to Taiwan

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article1.asp?datePublish=2003/02/19&pages=04&seq=17">http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article1.asp?datePublish=2003/02/19&pages=04&seq=17</a><br /><br />"Dell Computer, one of the biggest PC makers, plans to move a significant part of its IT product research and development unit from its Austin, Texas headquarters to its Taiwan Design Center (TDC), a Dell Taiwan source told DigiTimes."<br /><br />Ouch. The sheer job count isn't high - less than 100 people. However, that is still some unpleasant job cuts as moves are made overseas where wages and benefits are well below those in the US. It seems to cover just about everything Dell makes, from from servers and switches to laptops and PDAs.

[Kaber]

boycott :?: :?

[Jimmy Dodd]

boycott :?: :?

Definately! Instead of a Dell I'm buying American and getting a Toshiba! :lol:

[bdegroodt]

AKA Taiwan? Had to happen sooner or later given Michael Dell's professed desire to remove every extra penny from the process of supplying cheap computers.

Can't have sub-$200 Pocket PC and sub-$300 servers and make Wall Street happy for too long before you have to do something like this.

[xendula]

B e n e f i t s ????? In the US?????????

I didn't know you guys had any :wink:

[Wadester]

I think that should be illegal. If not, it's at least un-American! :evil:

[Kaber]

boycott :?: :?

Definately! Instead of a Dell I'm buying American and getting a Toshiba! :lol:

Good one! :lol:

[Jonathon Watkins]

B e n e f i t s ????? In the US?????????

I didn't know you guys had any :wink:

Nasty. :twisted: Behave! :wink:

[Gerard]

Ain't the motive of more for less great? Ya just gotta admire the capitalist ethos. Makes for a great life for everyone, with prosperity, stability, freedom... the freedom to look for a McJob, that is. If Wll Street and other stock exchange monoliths are allowed to continue their dictation of how the world is run for another 100 years, I predict a clear division between rich and poor of about 1/100,000,000, with the average annual income (in 2003 equivalent $) of about $500. Kinda makes me relieved that I'm 41 already. With the average age of death in my family of about 85, I don't expect to starve too badly before I go. And hey, computers will only cost $50! (oh, right, when I'm 85, that'll be a couple of months' income... sigh)

[xendula]

B e n e f i t s ????? In the US?????????

I didn't know you guys had any :wink:

Nasty. :twisted: Behave! :wink:

Sorry, just couldn't help it! :D

[Foo Fighter]

Great, more high paying jobs moving overseas. I sometimes wonder if the US isn't headed towards becoming a third world country. Middle class jobs are continuing to move overseas, and we are slowly morphing into a service economy, which scares the hell out of me. Our lifestyle can't survive without smoke stack jobs. Between this and the illegal hispanic immigration problem, I think I'm moving to Canada. :)

[Jason Dunn]

Between this and the illegal hispanic immigration problem, I think I'm moving to Canada. :)

Uh-oh. I'd better finishing packing then... :lol:

[Jonathon Watkins]

Between this and the illegal hispanic immigration problem, I think I'm moving to Canada. :)

Uh-oh. I'd better finishing packing then... :lol:

Well, aren't we all being nice to each other today. :lol:

In all seriousness though, it's not a good time to be an IT worker just now. :?

[Foo Fighter]

Uh-oh. I'd better finishing packing then... :lol:

Yeah, look out...I'm moving into your neighborhood. :lol:

[fgarcia10]

Great, more high paying jobs moving overseas. I sometimes wonder if the US isn't headed towards becoming a third world country. Middle class jobs are continuing to move overseas, and we are slowly morphing into a service economy, which scares the hell out of me. Our lifestyle can't survive without smoke stack jobs. Between this and the illegal hispanic immigration problem, I think I'm moving to Canada. :)


Foo Fighter, I have some "ilegal" friends that are moving to Canada too. But you don't have to worry about losing your job because of that, unless you are a diswasher, a landscaper, trashman, cook at a fastfood restaurant, a houskeeper, a dryer (at a car wash).....

[Kirkaiya]

I think that should be illegal. If not, it's at least un-American! :evil:

While I'm NOT in favor of losing jobs to overseas markets, there's 2 points I'd like to make about this:

1. We (being the U.S. people) tend to protest a lot about unfair practices when companies move people to places with lower income levels, less regulation, etc - but then our president passes a Farm Subsidy bill into law that hurts the farmers in other countries by using OUR tax-dollars to subsidize U.S. farmers. If we want to play fair, cutting out these probably-illegal (in the WTO) subsidies would be a good place to start.

2. I don't think we DO need "smoke-stack" jobs here for prosperity to grow.

Our "service" economy consists of a lot of very-high-end services, including financial/accounting/brokerage services to much of the world, most of the worlds largest consulting companies (BearingPoint, Accenture, IBM Global Services, EDS, Computer Associates, Perot Data Systems), and the largest software companies (Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, etc).

The strength of the U.S. economy, is (IMHO) it's innovativeness (I just made up that word ::wink:: ) We have Intel and AMD, we have Sun, HP-Compaq, and the thousands of smaller companies that churn out new ideas, new technology...

We still do have some impressive industry here anyway - the U.S. is home to the world's top-2 automakers (GM, Ford), largest airline maker (Boeing), the largest electric-appliance maker (GE) - and GE is also one of the biggest maker of Jet-Engines, plastics, and even a huge finanical arm.

Anyway - Maybe it's because I grew up in sort of "poor" family, but I feel that, our current idiot-in-chief aside, things have never been better. I'll concede there is a growing gap between the rich and poor which needs to be addressed, but overall, things seem pretty good. And I'm saying this during a down economy....

So anyway - if Dell wants to send 100 jobs to Taiwan, good for the Taiwanese people who are unemployed. And who do you think Taiwan's biggest banks hire as auditors, and whose chips do they buy? Whose airplanes do they buy?

So anyway! That's my patriotic song-and-dance, ha ha.

[lspinellijr]

next up..................accounting fraud.

[dh]

If any of you PPCers read F--kedcompany.com you will be aware that many large companies are moving their IT and development departments to the far east.

While it obviously keeps cost down in the short term, you have to wonder what will happen in the longer term. Who are the people who tend to buy the kinds of goodies chirned out by tech companies? Why the very same ones losing their jobs in the trek to the east.

At this rate there will be no-one left working to buy the products these people make.

I don't care if it saves money, I think it's the wrong thing to do.

As an aside, the Palm world is no better. My trusty Vx is made in the good 'ol USA. Where is the new TT made? Hmmmm.......

Number of Vx problems I ever hear about? 'bout zero.
Number of TT problems on Palm message boards? zillions.

[Bigedmachine]

I guess they don't want originality, creativity, new ideas - they can just copy and improve like so many other outsourced R and D groups. Oh yeah - I almost forgot - they can pocket that exrta couple million as well, which will should make the stock soar...what a bunch of BS. 8O

[TawnerX]

I think Taiwan has one of the highest concentration of EE's in the planet after california and Ukraine. It's just natural to move things to where the actions are. Texas isn't exactly the center of the universe in term of electronic manufacturing.

top 4 out of 5 pure play foundry is located in Taiwan. None in Texas. top 5 of mobo's manufacturing are in that island, while 4 out of 5 of the biggest laptop ODM are in that island. Being in Texas is like being in Des moines if you are an aspiring financier instead of downtown manhattan.

[Fishie]

I think that should be illegal. If not, it's at least un-American! :evil:

Nah man its the American way, unbridled capitalism and stuff you know.

[Kaber]

/me throws in the towel

[Bob Anderson]

I don't think I can, in good conscience, blame Dell for this move. I do, however, have to admit stuff like this scares me.

First off, my biggest concern is how important Taiwan is for the world economy... I admire the tenacity of these people to build their country into an electronics superpower and therein lies the rub. China wanted Hong Kong, and got it, and trust me ... THEY WANT TAIWAN... How hard is the U.S. going to fight to keep Taiwan "independent"?

The more and more American companies invest there, the more and more likely we could get involved in a very tense situation. It would make the Iraq situation look pale in comparison. Imagine, an angry China - on the brink of attacking Taiwan AND letting North Korea pursue their "whole Korea" philosophy unchecked?.

Hmmm... Taipei and Seoul under threat of military action... wonder what the stock markets would do then!

Secondly... I'm concerned about the brain drain, or lack of brain development in America... Why come to America to learn technology.. go to India or Taiwan, or??? Education, and ingenuity, are American hallmarks... if we let that slide North America will face some problems (some say it's overdue... I disagree.)

Thirdly... Is this really going to lower prices? Or is Dell just going to post bigger profits? I don't think I'll be betting on this anytime soon.

WOW... all this on a Pociket PC Forum!!! This community is the best!!!

[TawnerX]

I don't think I can, in good conscience, blame Dell for this move. I do, however, have to admit stuff like this scares me.

First off, my biggest concern is how important Taiwan is for the world economy...

Let's just say if we nuke Taiwan, we gonna lost a third of world supply of chip, half of world semiconductor manufacturing capacity, 80% supply of all computer motherboards, and probably it means 60-90% of world desktop manufacturing will grind to a halt. In other world, there won't be any new laptop and desktop being made for a good while ...

Remember when Taiwan get hit by minor earthquake several years back, and the semiconductor price goes out of whack for months?

If we nuke Texas, well.... don't know. less Texans I guess.

[Duncan]

Bob,

China got Hong Kong because it was actually theirs. The UK only leased it for 100 years - and the lease ran out - nothing more sinister than that. I agree that China would love Taiwan - but I very much doubt they would try and take it by force. Annexing Tibet is one thing - they knew the world wouldn't care. China in the current climate, where it is slowly inching towards a change from Communism to experiment with Capitalist models, is more likely to try and beat Taiwan at their own game than conquer them.

Also - I believe that China would, if it came to it, vote with the rest of the UN Security Council if it proved necessary to keep North Korea in check - they have as much to fear from the insanity of the North Korean leadership (in possibly the most totalitarian, Orwellian state on earth) as anyone. Personally - I think North Korea will collapse in on itself in time. The regime is unsustainable and I doubt the people would stand to go to war against South Korea where they have families and links.

History has a way of dealing with these things - cf. the collapse of Communism in Europe. Iraq will go the same way. Already there are major fault lines among the various oppressed groups in Iraq. Intervention from the West is hardly necessary...

Anyway we need to see these things in a larger perspective - for most of human history the centre of the civilised world was in the far east. Technological innovation, advanced learning and more came from China, Arabia, Egypt etc. The rise of Western civilisation to dominance is only a blip in the ocean of history - 400 years against 4000 years. If Taiwan is to be one of the new superpowers - so be it. Things change, they can't help it!

[TawnerX]

Don't worry Bush is going to pre-emp China after he is done with Iraq and north Korea. 8O

There are so many evil doers in this world. Why can't they respect freedom loving people. /sarcasm.

[klinux]

{small thread drift comment removed - Nothing klinux did wrong}

Back on topic - Taiwan has a fairly high standard of living - not quite as high as US, of course, few countries are - so I doubt Dell will experience much savings in pure financial $. The real saving is closer communication, access to the high-tech manufacturing etc.

[Ed Hansberry]

Mess cleaned up. Keep it clean and on topic folks.

[Kirkaiya]

Bob,

China got Hong Kong because it was actually theirs. The UK only leased it for 100 years - and the lease ran out - nothing more sinister than that. I agree that China would love Taiwan - but I very much doubt they would try and take it by force. Annexing Tibet is one thing - they knew the world wouldn't care. China in the current climate, where it is slowly inching towards a change from Communism to experiment with Capitalist models, is more likely to try and beat Taiwan at their own game than conquer them.

Also - I believe that China would, if it came to it, vote with the rest of the UN Security Council if it proved necessary to keep North Korea in check - they have as much to fear from the insanity of the North Korean leadership (in possibly the most totalitarian, Orwellian state on earth) as anyone. Personally - I think North Korea will collapse in on itself in time. The regime is unsustainable and I doubt the people would stand to go to war against South Korea where they have families and links.

Very very well said

If Taiwan is to be one of the new superpowers - so be it. Things change, they can't help it!

Well..... Taiwan is in no danger of becoming a "superpower", if for no other reason than that they probably don't have the "critical mass" of population to do so. Unless there is a huge war, or plague, the likely superpowers 100 years from now will be the United States, and possibly China, and China isn't a sure thing.

While the rise of Western Civilization may be only 400 years in the past 4000, it's important to note that, for most of that 4000, there was very very little technological progress - in fact, with the burning of the Library at Alexandria, the fall of Greece, and later the fall of Rome, technology was lost (the secret to hydraulic cement wasn't rediscovered until the 18th century!).

Also - there are more people alive today than all the people that lived and died from 5000 BC to 1500 AD, which is a rather startling number. So - we should probably "weight" the importance of the past 400 years a bit higher than the previous 3600.

Anyway - nicely written post overall !!! :)

[gfunkmagic]

Getting back to the trade thing.

American have to understand, they can't have it both ways. The truth is that US gains much advantage through free trade and gains much more than it loses. Nascent domestic industries in developing countires are virtually wiped out once trade restircitons are liberalized and openned to western industries. In this instance, its the american worker that gets shafted, but hey you win some and lose some. Economies evole and the US must take advantage into of its strengths into new areas and not worry about the jobs that quite frankly will not be coming back...