PCMCIA announces NEWCARD format

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.dpreview.com/news/0302/03022103pcmcianewcard.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.dpreview.com/news/0302/0...mcianewcard.asp</a><br /><br /></div>"The PCMCIA technology association has today announced the 'NEWCARD' format. This new format makes use of PC Card, PCI Express and USB 2.0 technologies. The NEWCARD format is also aimed at both Mobile and Desktop PCs. "By drawing upon USB 2.0 and PCI Express, the NEWCARD specification will bring serial bus technology to a smaller form factor that offers more performance and improved ease of use. This new specification will revolutionize how PC developers and OEMs utilize the expansion slot for next-generation features such as wireless networking, storage and card readers."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/pcmcianewcard.jpg" /><br /><br />I must be missing something. On the surface, this announcement seems about three years too late - we have CompactFlash and SD already, and this technology doesn't seem to offer anything worth getting excited about. Or does it? The list of quotes from the links of Dell, HP, Microsoft, Intel, and IBM makes me think this could gain rapid industry support. The question is, why?

[Janak Parekh]

To me, this looks like the evolution of both CF and PC/Cardbus. The big problem with CF is that its bandwidth is not great -- it can't handle 802.11a/g speeds, for example. I'd imagine that this standard would be quite a bit faster than even 32-bit Cardbus.

In any case, the irony to me is that it looks like a bigger Memory Stick. 8O

--janak

[Jonathan1]

I have to imagine one of the biggest reasons why this format is being pushed is to totally phase out the aging PC Card slots on laptops. As our tablet\laptop PC's get smaller and smaller those PC Card slots on the side are going to end up being a serious pain in the butt for system designers to work around. The CF format while able to do I/O isn't, from what I've read correct me if I'm wrong, comparable to the PC Card. I still cringe at something like this. How many gazillion PC Cards inhabit this world? And they want to replace the format. Then again I use to say the same thing about the ISA card format. Now you talk about ISA at a Best Buy and they give you a blank stare. IS what?? :)

*shrugs* Anything that gives us more bandwidth is a good thing right?

I'm still waiting for my Isolinear Optical Chips to show up on the market. :D

[R K]

I think maybe they would do better with a CompactFlash Pro or a CompactFlash Ultra slot, keeping the same shape and size of the CF slot but adding extra pins or doing whatever it takes to beef up the bandwidth.
That way, you get backwards compatibility with at least the older CF Cards and it's small enough for next-generation ultra-compact notebooks and next-generation ultra-powerful Pocket PCs.

[Jason Dunn]

I think maybe they would do better with a CompactFlash Pro or a CompactFlash Ultra slot, keeping the same shape and size of the CF slot but adding extra pins or doing whatever it takes to beef up the bandwidth.
That way, you get backwards compatibility with at least the older CF Cards and it's small enough for next-generation ultra-compact notebooks and next-generation ultra-powerful Pocket PCs.

I agree - I think this approach would make much more sense. The CF form-factor is excellent, and considering what they can do with SD, I think they could create higher-performing CF cards...

[Merlion]

The question is indeed, why?
PCMCIA can always create a new, better standard for PC cards, like what they did with CardBus. This way, it'll continue to be compatible with all the existing PCMCIA cards in the world. I mean, this new NewCard isn't that much smaller than current PC Cards, so why don't they stick to the ubiquitous PC Card format? The slightly larger PC Card format can pack in more circuitry & hardware, so a new class of PC Cards (with all the capabilities of the NEWCARD) will have more potential capabilities.

And like Janak mentioned about the CF bandwidth, I think CFA should come up with a new standard for a new generation of CF cards with better bandwidth & capabilities. For PPCs, part of the constrain is with the X-Scale design. But if there's a new class of CF cards, new X-Scale processors should also take them into account. Afterall, for handheld devices, CF is still the standard I/O expansion port. But to handle 802.11a/g, bty densities should also be increased as well, or a practical bty for a 802.11a/g PPC would probably be bigger than the PPC. ;)

[Merlion]

Oh I absolutely agree with RK & Jason .. your posts wasn't there when I wrote mine. :)

One thing though, PCMCIA & CFA are two different organizations. So, I don't think PCMCIA would want to let CFA take over the market.

[fatboy_au]

What about the fact that the name will not last the age of the technology? How long are we going to refer to it as NEW CARD? :lol:

[DaleReeck]

Oh good. Another standard to add to the pile. I guess PCMCIA, Cardbus, CF I, CF II, SD, Smartmedia and Sony Smartstick weren't already enough *sigh*

[FredMurphy]

The question is, why?
What happened to W?BIC :lol:

There are too many competing small formats but this is designed to replace the ageing PCMCIA slot. I think this could be a good thing - even for crossover into the PocketPC world.

There are so many cards that seem to think "tiny" is the answer, leaving us with dinky little memory cards that are capable of little else. Sure SD and others are fine for a memory card but where are the SDIO peripherals? If they do come out they are months, if not years, behind their CF equivalent. (Isn't it still just Bluetooth on SD so far?)

If New Card does take off for laptops there will be lots of useful IO cards (802.11g, 802.16, whatever's the next big thing...) created for the larger (in sales) laptop market. Any PocketPC which compromises with the slightly larger format becomes so much more expandable. And don't get me onto size-doubling single-function jackets - euuurrgghhh!

Terrible name though. :(

Just my opinions - feel free to disagree.
Fred

[Alucard]

It's basically a new small form factor bus standard that corresponds to PCI-X (a next generation system I/O bus standard -- we'll need new desktops to use PCI-X fully).

I'm guessing that since the designers of PC standards wanted to incorporate advances in technology in the form of a new system bus, they saw fit to do the same for PCCard/PCMCIA.

CF, maybe smartmedia and possibly SDcards run on the same interface/protocol as PCMCIA. Only the form factor is different. New Card will greatly increase the available bandwidth available to devices. Additionally I believe that CF and simallar technologies are considered memory formats (I know that there are a lot of CF and SDIO accessories, but I believe that these are mostly a niche market

Potentially with New Card (what a stupid name) we could use the same accessories/ addons as laptops can use, without the bulky sleeves that we currently have.

Did that make sense at all? Sorry if I seem like I'm rambling. :)

All in all, this is cool that we will soon be able to have more powerful devices. However, I don't think we well see any real benefit for PPCs for at least one or two years (when we start seeing New Card slots on them).

[Pony99CA]

What about the fact that the name will not last the age of the technology? How long are we going to refer to it as NEW CARD? :lol:
It might last longer than you think. Do you still talk about "New Wave" music, even though it's from the 80s?

And what about "New Mexico", "New York" and "New Jersey"? ("New Brunswick" and "Nova Scotia" for you Canadians) :lol: I once got into an "argument" by suggesting that we should just call them "Mexico", "York" and "Jersey" because they're not new anymore. The sap who believed me said there were already places named Mexico, York and Jersey. I said I realized that, and they should be called Old Mexico, Old York and Old Jersey. This went on for a while. College was fun. :-D

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Oh good. Another standard to add to the pile. I guess PCMCIA, Cardbus, CF I, CF II, SD, Smartmedia and Sony Smartstick weren't already enough *sigh*
I'm not sure what "Smartstick" is (maybe Memory Stick?), but don't forget MMC, Memory Stick Pro (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7445), Memory Stick Duo, XD Picture Card (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2330) and Reduced Size MMC (RSMMC) (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5090).

DataPlay (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3842), RIP, has been mercifully left out. :-)

Steve

[gwinter]

It's basically a new small form factor bus standard that corresponds to PCI-X (a next generation system I/O bus standard -- we'll need new desktops to use PCI-X fully).

I think that's it. I read over at Tom's Hardware Guide that it leverages the new PCI-Express architecture, which provides more bandwidth, and also has provision for isosynchronous(is this right?) data-transfer for applications such as TV tuner cards or video cameras. My opinion is that this type of change, i.e. from PCI to PCI Express, is inevitable. It's not a question of "if", more of "when". Also, Newcard should be a codename, not sure if they're going to stick to it as the final name :?

Couldn't find the link to the place where I read the above, but anyone interested should check out the Spring 2003 IDF report at Tom's (http://www.tomshardware.com). Some information on Centrino computing platform, prototype notebook with Low Temperature Poly Silicon LCD (like those used in Toshiba e550G), serial ATA optical drives, and more codenames than you can shake a stick at (Prescott, Tejas, Marble Falls, Powersville, Newport...)

Edit: Just checked the press release. True enough, they say "a new specification codenamed NEWCARD".

[Pony99CA]

For those who like to go straight to the source, here's the official announcement from the PCMCIA organization (http://www.pcmcia.org/newcard.htm).

Steve

[Felix Torres]

Reading through the Official Press Release its pretty clear that, unlike SD and its ilk, which are generally seem as memory card form factors first and expansion card formats second, if at all, NEWCARD is meant as an expansion card format first and foremost.
Hence the size and thickness.
Big by handheld standards, tiny by PCI and USB standards.
The comparisions (two cards in the space of one CARDBUS slot) the continual references to USB tech and the repeated *strong* emphasis on the benefits to desktops (smaller sizes, innovative form factors, etc) make it clear that handheld and consumer electronics interests are *not* at the forefront of their thinking.

My best guess is that we're looking at a spec more likely to replace PCI than CF or SD.
And the primary target is likely to be corporate desktops, not gamer boxes or servers.

And think about it, what kinds of PCI cards *are* corporate desktop users getting these days, anyway? With built-in LAN, audio, and video, a lot of the corporate boxes never use PCI cards at all. (And video runs on AGP, anyway.)
Most of the few functions that do use PCI can be delivered as USB 2.0 devices or through single chip devices, external dongles, or breakout-boxes in the new form factor.
So PCI cards can be dispensed with and replaced with hot-pluggable NEWCARD and USB or FIREWIRE devices.
Add the dropping price of 2.5" drives and their growing capacities, and there is really no need for corporate PCs to continue using the existing ATX infrastructure anymore.

If I'm right, expect to see soon a new Intel-supported standard motherboard format for desktops, a new case and PS spec, and a standard for a half-height DVD drive, probably serial-ATA. We might Possibly even see a whole new optical drive standard built around 3 inch Blu-ray tech (Less likely--admittedly--but still possible), all leading to a new super-quiet, book-sized corporate desktop PC format.

Implementation is likely to begin with the next generation of legacy-free desktops, moving to tablet PCs fairly quickly. I'm not sure we'll see this tech on handhelds soon at all; certainly not until the price of the NEWCARD add-ins themselves seriously undercut SDIO parts.

My $0.02.

[mjhamson]

Any new standard/technology in the computer hardware sector that can step forward with a design and implementation that is non-legacy based, should be welcomed!

For 5 years, the industry has been fighting each other to abondon as much legacy technologies as is possible. We are now on the brink of this finally happening. The use of PCI Express is a very positive step forward as well as the broadened data path the NEWCARD will offer.

[MooseMaster]

Y'all seem to be implying that this NewCard (oig, we've got to think up a new name for it ourselves) is some monster. It's about the width of 2 USB ports, and the height of one. This thing is the fraction of the size of PC Card, and yet has a 16GByte/sec bus. I don't understand why y'all are complaining. It's the same size as CompactFlash Type II, but twice as long (and maybe a mm thicker).

And it's not like all your PC Cards will suddenly be extinct. You can still use them in your current system, which is what you bought it for, and NewCards will be made just as quickly. This is the evolution of the PC Card, not a new format all together. Manufacturers will adopt this faster than you'd believe, I'll wager.

[Will T Smith]

"The PCMCIA technology association has today announced the 'NEWCARD' format. This new format makes use of PC Card, PCI Express and USB 2.0 technologies. The NEWCARD format is also aimed at both Mobile and Desktop PCs. "By drawing upon USB 2.0 and PCI Express, the NEWCARD specification will bring serial bus technology to a smaller form factor that offers more performance and improved ease of use. This new specification will revolutionize how PC developers and OEMs utilize the expansion slot for next-generation features such as wireless networking, storage and card readers."

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/pcmcianewcard.jpg

I must be missing something. On the surface, this announcement seems about three years too late - we have CompactFlash and SD already, and this technology doesn't seem to offer anything worth getting excited about. Or does it? The list of quotes from the links of Dell, HP, Microsoft, Intel, and IBM makes me think this could gain rapid industry support. The question is, why?d

Your missing a massive increase in bandwidth you get with PCI express bus. Additionally, this format is necessary from a design standpoint. Without an analogous compact form factor PCI express cards would need an entirely separate design to work with laptops. This would make life difficult for expansion card manufacturers.

The format is absoluetly necessary to transition to higher speed expansion buses on the desktop and portables like laptops, tabletPC and Mira displays.

For now, I believe that CF and SD will keep handhelds humming. The devices simply cannot process the amount of bandwidth available with PCI Express. However, as PDAs get into the 1Ghz area, I would expect to see a "micro" version of NewCard with a formfactor similar to SD.

The motivation is simple. First, Intel likes to control EVERYTHING concerning computers from CPU, chipsets, Peripheral interconnect, etc... The PDA is the next logical evolution of PCs, a truly personal computer that you can take with you and use anywhere. The idea of allowing Panasonic (Matsu****a) to control PDA interconnect (via SD) is an obscenity in Intel's world.

Reason two: shrinking a device into a smaller form factor is a mostly matter of using smaller die-size for fabrication and redesigning the pin interface. Designing for a different bus interface requires a fundamentally different bus I/O controller, interrupt model, fundamentally different drivers, etc... Creating a smaller form-factor Next-Card would allow card vendors to easily shrink their format to PDA size. Assuming they had already written CE type drivers (for Mira devices) creating a "micro" sized device would require no new software.

I do have one question about this format. Will it provide a fair amount of power so that powered devices or busses (like Firewire) can be driven from the slot instead of requiring external adapters?[/b]

[Will T Smith]

The question is indeed, why?
PCMCIA can always create a new, better standard for PC cards, like what they did with CardBus. This way, it'll continue to be compatible with all the existing PCMCIA cards in the world. I mean, this new NewCard isn't that much smaller than current PC Cards, so why don't they stick to the ubiquitous PC Card format? The slightly larger PC Card format can pack in more circuitry & hardware, so a new class of PC Cards will have more potential capabilities.

And like Janak mentioned about the CF bandwidth, I think CFA should come up with a new standard for a new generation of CF cards with better bandwidth & capabilities. For PPCs, part of the constrain is with the X-Scale design. But if there's a new class of CF cards, new X-Scale processors should also take them into account. Afterall, for handheld devices, CF is still the standard I/O expansion port. But to handle 802.11a/g, bty densities should also be increased as well, or a practical bty for a 802.11a/g PPC would probably be bigger than the PPC. ;)

Adding more pins (parrallell) adds more cost because the connectors are more complex. It's now cheaper to serialize the connection since the encoding/decoding power necessary for serialize connections is now cheaper to fabricate.

[Will T Smith]

What about the fact that the name will not last the age of the technology? How long are we going to refer to it as NEW CARD? :lol:

NewCard is the "working" name. The technology will be marketed under a yet to be decided monikker.

[T-Will]

Oh good. Another standard to add to the pile. I guess PCMCIA, Cardbus, CF I, CF II, SD, Smartmedia and Sony Smartstick weren't already enough *sigh*
I'm not sure what "Smartstick" is (maybe Memory Stick?), but don't forget MMC, Memory Stick Pro (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7445), Memory Stick Duo, XD Picture Card (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2330) and Reduced Size MMC (RSMMC) (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5090).

DataPlay (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3842), RIP, has been mercifully left out. :-)

Steve

Yeah and don't forget about Extremely Reduced Sized MultiMediaCard (ERSMMCTM) (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5090&start=17&postdays=0&postorder=asc) and Super Extremely Reduced Sized MultiMediaCard (SERSMMCTM) (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5090&start=17&postdays=0&postorder=asc) and Super Duper Extremely Reduced Sized MultiMediaCards (SDERSMMCTM) (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5090&start=17&postdays=0&postorder=asc). ;)

Actually I think I'll just patent anything that stores data. Then I could sue all these companies making memory cards, hard drives, memory sticks, flash cards, paper, notebooks, notepads, CD's, tapes, etc. It would go perfect with my patent on any device that allows people (or animals) to communicate with each other (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8503&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=patent&start=31).

[Will T Smith]

&lt;snip...>

Most of the few functions that do use PCI can be delivered as USB 2.0 devices or through single chip devices, external dongles, or breakout-boxes in the new form factor.

So PCI cards can be dispensed with and replaced with hot-pluggable NEWCARD and USB or FIREWIRE devices.
Add the dropping price of 2.5" drives and their growing capacities, and there is really no need for corporate PCs to continue using the existing ATX infrastructure anymore.

&lt;snip....>

Implementation is likely to begin with the next generation of legacy-free desktops, moving to tablet PCs fairly quickly. I'm not sure we'll see this tech on handhelds soon at all; certainly not until the price of the NEWCARD add-ins themselves seriously undercut SDIO parts.

My $0.02.

Your reference to USB2.0 devices is very appropriate. The thing one must remember though is that external devices can be VERY unsightly with their various form factors. They often clash with a PCs external design and your office deco. Futhermore, in an office environment, an external device is harder to manage and much easier for a thief to walk away with.

One of the ideas of the NewCard is to take external devices and make them internal AND easy to install or move (I would speculate that corporate PCs may have locks on their NewCard slots to discourage thieves).

Since PCI Expresss comes out in 2004. That's when you'll start seeing NewCard slots on desktops, PCs, tablets, and maybe Mira (though Mira devices would require a separate driver since they're CE based).

I don't think that NewCard will ever be deployed on PocketPC. Rather, I would expect to see a "micro" version released well after NewCard has gained acceptance in it's target devices. No device larger than a CF will be acceptable on a handheld since physical space is the ULTIMATE factor in handhelds.

SDIO is rapidly beginning to supercede CF. It has obvious advantages in size. Furthermore, handhelds do not currently demand high bandwidth I/O since they don't have the ability to process it effectively.

CFs greatest advantage (thus far) has been it's ability to serve as I/O connectivity for a large range of devices. As SD supplants it, CFs saving grace may be it's ability to host removable storage devices like MicroDrive, SmartMedia, Xd, Memory Stick and it's infinite derivatives, and whatever else is put out into the future market.

Likeise, if a Micro-NewCard is ultimately developed, it will have to be large enough to host adapters for the other small form factor memory cards like xD, and MemoryStick. Otherwise, CF slots will be necessary for a long time to come.

[Howard2k]

Y'all seem to be implying that this NewCard (oig, we've got to think up a new name for it ourselves) is some monster. It's about the width of 2 USB ports, and the height of one. This thing is the fraction of the size of PC Card, and yet has a 16GByte/sec bus. I don't understand why y'all are complaining. It's the same size as CompactFlash Type II, but twice as long (and maybe a mm thicker).

And it's not like all your PC Cards will suddenly be extinct. You can still use them in your current system, which is what you bought it for, and NewCards will be made just as quickly. This is the evolution of the PC Card, not a new format all together. Manufacturers will adopt this faster than you'd believe, I'll wager.

16GB bus?? Where did you see that? Surely not over copper?

That's 12 times faster than the communciations circuits that make up the larger carriers backbones (OC192 - 10Gbps).

Ethernet 10Mb/s
Fast Ethernet 100Mb/s
USB 2.0 - 480 Mb/s
IEEE1394b - 800Mb/s
Gigabit Ethernet - 1Gb/s (~1000Mb/s)
Ultra160SCSI 160MB/s (~1,280Mb/s)
OC192 - 10Gb/s (~10,000Mb/s)
Newcard - 128Gb/s (~128,000 Mb/s)


That's a serious amount of bandwidth, are you sure that's right?

[Janak Parekh]

That's a serious amount of bandwidth, are you sure that's right?
http://www.pcisig.com/specifications/pciexpress/

"PCI Express currently runs at 2.5Gtps, or 250MBps per lane in each direction, providing a total bandwidth of 16GBps in a 32-lane configuration. Future frequency increases will scale up total bandwidth to the limits of copper and significantly beyond that via other media without impacting any layers above the Physical Layer in the protocol stack."

We'll see if the first NEWCARD implementations reach this performance level, but PCI Express is built for the future. :)

--janak

[Merlion]

...
Most of the few functions that do use PCI can be delivered as USB 2.0 devices or through single chip devices, external dongles, or breakout-boxes in the new form factor.
So PCI cards can be dispensed with and replaced with hot-pluggable NEWCARD and USB or FIREWIRE devices.
Add the dropping price of 2.5" drives and their growing capacities, and there is really no need for corporate PCs to continue using the existing ATX infrastructure anymore.
...

Your reference to USB2.0 devices is very appropriate. The thing one must remember though is that external devices can be VERY unsightly with their various form factors. They often clash with a PCs external design and your office deco. Futhermore, in an office environment, an external device is harder to manage and much easier for a thief to walk away with.

One of the ideas of the NewCard is to take external devices and make them internal AND easy to install or move (I would speculate that corporate PCs may have locks on their NewCard slots to discourage thieves).
Although I generally agree with your post, here's some other points I thought are relevant to your points.

USB 2.0 is just an I/O standard, it can be implemented internally or externally. Some USB cards have internal connectors as well.


Since PCI Expresss comes out in 2004. That's when you'll start seeing NewCard slots on desktops, PCs, tablets, and maybe Mira (though Mira devices would require a separate driver since they're CE based).

I don't think that NewCard will ever be deployed on PocketPC. Rather, I would expect to see a "micro" version released well after NewCard has gained acceptance in it's target devices. No device larger than a CF will be acceptable on a handheld since physical space is the ULTIMATE factor in handhelds.

SDIO is rapidly beginning to supercede CF. It has obvious advantages in size. Furthermore, handhelds do not currently demand high bandwidth I/O since they don't have the ability to process it effectively.

CFs greatest advantage (thus far) has been it's ability to serve as I/O connectivity for a large range of devices. As SD supplants it, CFs saving grace may be it's ability to host removable storage devices like MicroDrive, SmartMedia, Xd, Memory Stick and it's infinite derivatives, and whatever else is put out into the future market.

Likeise, if a Micro-NewCard is ultimately developed, it will have to be large enough to host adapters for the other small form factor memory cards like xD, and MemoryStick. Otherwise, CF slots will be necessary for a long time to come.

SD's main advantage over CF is obviously, like you said, size. If it can duplicate CF's functions, it can easily supplant CF given its wide industry support. OTOH, CF's advantage over SD is also size. Although it's several times bigger, it can also pack in several times more circuitry & other hardware than an SD card can. E.g., say a new generation of SDs can have all the capabilities of current CFs, then the new generation of CFs would have even better capabilities, like perhaps 802.11a/g + storage/battery that the new SDs can't do (assuming PPCs advanced accordingly). So, I don't know how it'll play out, but there're other forces that'll determine CF's fate including market forces. :? Just to add to your point about CF's suitability as a universal hosting port. :)

[Howard2k]

Oh I see... So they're basically doing it by multiplexing multiple lower speed data paths.. That makes more sense :)

[Janak Parekh]

Oh I see... So they're basically doing it by multiplexing multiple lower speed data paths.. That makes more sense :)
Yes. And with some more reading, it seems the initial devices will have 1 line, so they won't be 16GB... but at least there's upward mobility in the form factor.

BTW, I read the Slashdot thread on this, and a lot of people say this is designed for (at least physical) backward-compatibility with the PC card form factor -- this card is exactly half the width, so you could stick two of these in a PC card-sized slot. Interesting, if you ask me. If so, it makes sense for many of the new and upcoming subnotebooks.

--janak

[Merlion]

BTW, I read the Slashdot thread on this, and a lot of people say this is designed for (at least physical) backward-compatibility with the PC card form factor -- this card is exactly half the width, so you could stick two of these in a PC card-sized slot. Interesting, if you ask me. If so, it makes sense for many of the new and upcoming subnotebooks.

--janak
If that's the case, I really liked the idea! :)