Three Initial Thoughts

[Andy Sjostrom]

Back from Microsoft headquarters in Redmond. Over time and as Non Disclosure Agreements expire you will see quite a few posts related to what we've seen and heard. In my first "thought", I will highlight three (of many) things that struck me during the week.<br /><br />First, it is amazing how well synchronized Microsoft is throughout its organization. It is very apparent that executive directions articulated in high level executive presentations by Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are materialized in physical deliverables from product groups, teams and developers. The consistency spans both tangible aspects such as technologies and features as well as intangible aspects such as passion for great software. Specifically, I went from listening to Microsoft executives to participating in really technical sessions with the Windows .NET Compact Framework developers. In the chats we had on the topics of namespaces, security, dynamic link libraries and so forth, the Microsoft developers clearly showed that what they did really linked up to the overall architectures.<br /><br />Second; price, hardware creativity and development tools. In my personal opinion, these three PDA factors will alone decide how well Microsoft succeeds in the PDA market during the coming 12-18 months. The average Pocket PC price has to come down, OEMs will have to start innovate their hardware and Microsoft has to successfully bring its .NET development tools to developers. Failing in any of these areas will bring pain and agony.<br /><br />Third; Smartphones. With a market share of approximately 0%, Microsoft needs to get its act together. I can't reveal anything of what we saw and what we didn't see, but regardless of that, this is what needs to happen: more partners throughout the value chain and many more very innovative Smartphone models. Failing in any of these areas is fatal.<br /><br />All in all, we will see very cool things happen during the coming months and it is clear that Microsoft is highly committed in winning in the PDA market and getting into the smartphone market.

[awierenga]

"Microsoft has to successfully bring its .NET development tools to developers. "

I want to develop freeware apps for the compact framework is there some kind of free IDE I can use?
MS Embedded Visual C++ could be used freely, will microsoft release a .NET compact framework equivalent; or some kind if license with which you can use VS.NET and SDE?

[Andy Sjostrom]

"Microsoft has to successfully bring its .NET development tools to developers. "

I want to develop freeware apps for the compact framework is there some kind of free IDE I can use?
MS Embedded Visual C++ could be used freely, will microsoft release a .NET compact framework equivalent; or some kind if license with which you can use VS.NET and SDE?

As far as I know, licensing is yet to be decided. However, there will be only one IDE and it is VS .NET.

[awierenga]

I know there already are some open source IDE's out there for C# (http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx). I don't know if it will work for the compact framework. If you restrict your app to the subset of class libraries supported by the compact framework will it work?

[EvilOne]

The VS .NET IDE will allow you to do .Net CF work. The eVC++ 4.x will allow you to do the normal C/C++ work like eVC++ 3 does. But things may change since it is not all out yet.

[PJE]

While looking into this over the weekend I found:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/device/embedded/download.asp

This allowed me to download the full eMbedded Visual C++ 4.0, although I have not had chance to install it yet.

This may be what you're looking for.

Regards,

PJE

[awierenga]

exactly that, only I want to code in C#

[Paragon]

Hey Andy, good post. I doubt many of us expect any of ther MVPs to break any kind of NDA. I know for myself I wouldn't want to see anyone even push the envelope on that issue. However to portray your general thoughts of what to come is very helpful, thanks.

You mention three key factors in the continued success of POcket PCs, price, hardware, and development tools. Development tools is very key, and Microsoft can control that. It has been I think a big reason for the jump in success in PPCs from earlier MS platforms. Price is a tuff one for Microsoft to control. Hardware......although I have asked this question before I have never really seen anyone answer it. What are the actual hardware requirements Microsoft has for OEMs to meet for PPC standards? Is there anything in those requirements that may hold back an OEM from really pushing the envelope, or even joining the PPC family...Sony comes to mind :-).......yeah, yeah I know it ain't gonna happen.

Dave

[tonyv]

Nobody but big corporations will be able to develop for Pocket PCs at the current .NET prices. Microsoft needs to stop gouging their developers. I thought they learned their lesson when they brought out their free tools, but now its unaffordable again

[wxrman]

Just my two cents worth....

At some point we(developers/content providers) probably need to figure out what people want/expect/desire on pocketpc's, palm os, and smartphones. These items are lumped together in one kiosk at the local electronics stores, but connectivity is still difficult, if not impossible for the average user.

Hardware:

PocketPC's
Do people want be able to take their "desktop" with them, or would they want this to be the "portable heart" of their desktop system, i.e. what a laptop is to a docking station.

If so, is the current screen size adequate? Is the 320x240 size, and for that matter, the physical screen size, limiting those users to entry, that feel the screen is too small?

Palm OS
Probably will continue to exist much like Apple does vs. Microsoft.

Smartphone
Just how far can we take something with such a small screen. Do you REALLY want to edit a word doc on your phone? Personally, I would like simple bluetooth connectivity with my pocketpc. Combined ppc and phone seems excessive when mobile phones with bluetooth seems a simpler solution.

Maybe a "Slave Mode" for phones whereby the ppc would given the ability to "take over" the blue-tooth equipped mobile phone, and utilize it to get internet access.

Software:
Kind of follows the hardware as to what a user/potential user wants to do with the system. Excellent contact integration with Outlook, but could be operated without need for connection with ppc or desktop. Maybe have the option to pull outlook update when successful bluetooth connection made.

gotta have games... I don't like turbulent flights and solitaire isn't captivating enough to get my mind off the "bouncing" wings outside my window.

Personally, I would want the above scenario and maybe have the ppc as a "portable brain". I not a fan of having to move files back and forth and utilizing separate/different programs to edit files.

Wireless Internet
Seems to be a disparity as to what is offered in the way of high-speed internet via mobile phone carriers. Sprint has excellent phones but is limited to digital networks, Verizon has excellent coverage but a horrible line of phones, others fall somewhere along these lines. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but the first to provide a good solid, blue-tooth enabled phone, that integrates easily with my ppc... will have my loyal business.

I guess that's something to "chew" on.

[Bill Gunn]

I have been developing software for Windows CE since the Phillips Velo days. It seems like Microsoft doesn't care about the low end market as far as developers go, only large enterprises. I think it's a mistake. Software gains acceptance from the ground up. That is what happened with Palm. Unfortunately, IMHO, Microsoft has never seriously supported independent developers. I think the entire concept of a small development team is outside of their paradigm.

[Jason Dunn]

What are the actual hardware requirements Microsoft has for OEMs to meet for PPC standards? Is there anything in those requirements that may hold back an OEM from really pushing the envelope, or even joining the PPC family...

From what I know, the hardware specs are:

- ARM-based CPU
- Portrait screen at 320 x 240
- Flash ROM
- microphone
- headphone jack

I'm sure there are more, but other than the fixed resolution, OEMs have a lot of freedom (I don't think the d-pad is even mandatory). Someone COULD do a clamshell device with a keyboard, integrated camera, etc. Microsoft has a group that includes an industrial designer and they do nothing but create cool new device designs and offer them to OEM/ODMs. The issue is risk: most OEMs want to do what everyone else is doing because they know it will sell well...it's a big risk for them to create a device that "pushes the envelope" and has a higher material cost. Sony has guts the other OEMs lack at this moment.

The reason for the resolution being fixed is frustratingly simple: Microsoft won't allow platform fragmentation. Look what happened when Palm allowed it - instant fragmentation and consumer confusion (some apps worked, some didn't). I really want to see Microsoft move to 640 * 480, but if they do, they'll do it across the whole OS in a unified fashion with compatability on all devices and all apps.

[Jason Dunn]

I have been developing software for Windows CE since the Phillips Velo days. It seems like Microsoft doesn't care about the low end market as far as developers go, only large enterprises. I think it's a mistake. Software gains acceptance from the ground up. That is what happened with Palm. Unfortunately, IMHO, Microsoft has never seriously supported independent developers. I think the entire concept of a small development team is outside of their paradigm.

I'd mostly agree with you...Microsoft is VERY enterprise focused. What do you think Microsoft could do to improve their support for "the little guys"? I'd be happy to pass some feedback on. In fact, I think we should start a new thread...look for one on the front page.

[Jonathan1]

One thing that I would REALLY like to know is when. When is the big mystery of the MS's next version of the PPC going to be release. Forget about an actual release date. I, and everyone else I'm guessing, wants to know the release date of the announcement of the release date. 8O

I really question if its necessary to be THIS secretive about your next OS. I can understand during the holiday season when PDA sales are moving at a brisk pace and the LAST thing MS would want to do is kill sales by announcing that a new OS is coming. I can understand 12+/- months out, but its March soon is it really necessary to play the whole secretive cloak and dagger routine at this point? :ninja:

I'm gonna explode if I don't find out some good, solid factually based info soon.

:microwave:
Wow and actual use for that emoticon....cool :)

[Foo Fighter]

The reason for the resolution being fixed is frustratingly simple: Microsoft won't allow platform fragmentation. Look what happened when Palm allowed it - instant fragmentation

I have mixed feelings about the "fragmentation" occurring in the Palm camp. On one hand that fragmentation translates into innovation. Just look at what Sony has done with its product line. It gives licensees the freedom and flexibility to try new form factors and offer new levels of functionality, and scale accordingly. In the PPC camp, the hardware platform is stringently fixed....which sometimes takes on the ripe oder of stagnancy. Or should I say..."pleasantly predictable"? :wink:

That said, I see fragmentation hurting PalmOS. The market is being deluged with many frustratingly different form factors and features it's hard to keep track of what device has what processor, or functionality. :?

This could end up being a very real benefit to PPC. Platform uniformity. We'll see which is the winning formula.

[tj21]

The reason for the resolution being fixed is frustratingly simple: Microsoft won't allow platform fragmentation. Look what happened when Palm allowed it - instant fragmentation and consumer confusion (some apps worked, some didn't). I really want to see Microsoft move to 640 * 480, but if they do, they'll do it across the whole OS in a unified fashion with compatability on all devices and all apps.

So does that mean that we should expect the inital release of PPC .NET to only support 240x320? If so that's disappointing. I can't justify an upgrade without a better resolution.

[PJE]

There MUST NOT be a fixed screen size/orientation with the next PocketPC OS!

Windows CE is written to handle any screen size, and with v4 handles on the fly screen size/orientation changes. Why remove such a large portion of Windows CE functionality for PocketPC users?

With PalmOS, the base operating system was written for 160x160 with no capability to handle other sizes. Therefore Sony and others had to install a kludge in the OS to handle the higher resolutions which is why a lot of older software and software from companies too small to support all available machines does not handle 320x320.

With Windows CE any program (other than those that directly address the screen, bypassing the OS) should run at all resolutions as long as the programmer has taken it into account when they are writing the program. MS should launch a initiative to get all programs coded in this way (even their own :wink: ) so future machines are not blighted by a 320x240 protrait screen ONLY form factor.

Regards,

PJE

[Paragon]

Microsoft has a group that includes an industrial designer and they do nothing but create cool new device designs and offer them to OEM/ODMs.

That is cool, very proactive. Do you have any knowledge of Microsofts hardware ideas coming to market, now or in the past? Or do the OEMs kinda chuckle and say "Oh here comes another one of Microsofts brain waves." :)

Dave

[TomB]

Jason, I find it strange that Microsoft would place people who they are cultivating to promote Microsoft products under NDA in the first place. That defeats the purpose of what you are supposed to be doing. What good is an MVP program if you can't serve as a conduit for information from Microsoft to end users? Hmmm... I wonder if it would it help if your readers all signed an NDA? Maybe you could swear us all in as Junior MVPs? :)

That said, how about some non-NDA questions about the present? For instance, WMP 8.5 has been in release as part of the ROM image of new hardware since last year, yet it is still not available at Microsoft or through the OEMs who released NEW PPCs without this software (HP on the H1910 comes to mind). Since the focus is now on the next OS, what about existing software? And more important, how is existing software going to run on the C1 release of Intel's PXA250 next month?

At any rate, I am glad to see you back! Your site continues to be the best source of quality PPC information in the industry!

[zylark]

with all this positive spin on microsoft, you almost destroy my perfect vision of the world where bill gates is the evil emperor and windows his deathstar, holding the world at ransom.

still, ms did bring us the ppc, and at long last xp. and tie fighters are really cool too :)

...and i used to be an amiga diehard...

[Paragon]

Jason, I find it strange that Microsoft would place people who they are cultivating to promote Microsoft products under NDA in the first place. That defeats the purpose of what you are supposed to be doing. What good is an MVP program if you can't serve as a conduit for information from Microsoft to end users?

TomB, I have to believe the system works pretty good if you look at it properly. This is just my perspective mind you. MVPs are conduits for us to relay concerns and issues to Microsft. Most of them are in positions to be able to gather info that they, and us as end users would like to see presented to MS. Part of that process is allowing them to see ahead at what is coming down the pipe so they can add their feedback, just like any other non public beta program. Then when a new product or version comes to market they are already familiar with the product and can help new users with any problems they may have with it by answering questions in places like this pPCp, Brighthand, and of course in the newsgroups. How are they any different than anyone else under NDAs for yet to be released products. Why, and how, should they be allowed to release info when others can't..........I will hassard a guess that the odd MVP is given permission to discuss somethings with large enterprises to get their feedback as well....

Dave

[Jonathon Watkins]

I can't justify an upgrade without a better resolution.

I know the feeling! 640x480 is something I REALLY would like to have soon. 8)

[HR]

In the last few month it was Palm's (and Sony's) turn to make big leaps. Now it's PPC's turn. I hope I will not be disappointed.

[Rob Alexander]

Nice thread, Andy. This seems much more useful than us whining at you for hints you can't give. And good post wxrman. I think the whole industry needs to figure out what people really want. For example, MS says the PPC is a 'companion' for your PC. But look at how people really want to use it. What we want is probably more like your suggestion of a PPC that's really a heart of a system. If it were technologically feasible, that's certainly what I'd want.

Since it's not feasible yet, I think we all try in our own ways to come up with solutions to our most pressing needs. And that, I think, is what's so hard for developers. We love these because they're so much better than paper day-timers and such, but none of us is really completely satisfied and nothing you can write will make us completely happy. In the meantime, we're seeing hardware evolve in response to some of the same pressures. Some of us look for solutions like PPC-PE while others think they need a BT phone with a regular PPC.

I used to be in the latter group, but over time, I'm thinking more and more that what I need is a small Tablet PC that I can carry with me during most of my work time and a SmartPhone to have with me all the time. I wouldn't need to write on the SmartPhone a la Word as I'd use the TPC for that. But I could have things on the SmartPhone like PDA apps, ListPro, eWallet and Traveller that provide me with information that I may need at a moment's notice.

Eventually, I think technology and the market will settle into some conbination of products that will meet most peoples' needs, but in the meantime, I think you developers will have something of a fragmented customer base with different people going about their business in different ways. Don't blame yourselves if you can't figure it out. I don't think there's any one thing to figure out right now.

[Will T Smith]

I have been developing software for Windows CE since the Phillips Velo days. It seems like Microsoft doesn't care about the low end market as far as developers go, only large enterprises. I think it's a mistake. Software gains acceptance from the ground up. That is what happened with Palm. Unfortunately, IMHO, Microsoft has never seriously supported independent developers. I think the entire concept of a small development team is outside of their paradigm.

I would have to completely DISAGREE with this view. Microsoft's development tools are some of the EASIEST to use in the business. They provide lots of built in functionality and Massive volumes of free information via MSDN online.

Regarding cost, a basic copy of Visual studio costs about $100. The full blown Studio is a bit more. The dev kits have ALWAYS been free. Advanced IDE functionality saves massive amounts of time and money. People blow smoke about Software Engineering tools like Rational Rose, but I've found no more effective and cost productive than the IDE.

Of course the full blown version does cost more. However, Microsoft always offers upgrades that are reasonable if your doing professional work. If you don't want to pay for their IDEs, you can simply download dev kit and use the editor of your choice. It will certainly take you more time. Than again, time is money.

[Will T Smith]

There MUST NOT be a fixed screen size/orientation with the next PocketPC OS!

Windows CE is written to handle any screen size, and with v4 handles on the fly screen size/orientation changes. Why remove such a large portion of Windows CE functionality for PocketPC users?

With PalmOS, the base operating system was written for 160x160 with no capability to handle other sizes. Therefore Sony and others had to install a kludge in the OS to handle the higher resolutions which is why a lot of older software and software from companies too small to support all available machines does not handle 320x320.

With Windows CE any program (other than those that directly address the screen, bypassing the OS) should run at all resolutions as long as the programmer has taken it into account when they are writing the program. MS should launch a initiative to get all programs coded in this way (even their own :wink: ) so future machines are not blighted by a 320x240 protrait screen ONLY form factor.

Regards,

PJE

Just say NO to pixels!!!!!

The big issue is looking at the screen in terms of pixels. When programming for multiple form factors, the ideal way to specify size is in terms of screen size, hypothetical units. The number of pixels would then be decided by the device. In this way creating for 320x240 vs 640x480 would be no problem whatsoever.

Look at this another way. Some (most) web pages are programmed for an "ideal" or "typical" screen resolution. Those of us running higher or lower resolutions must suffer documents that either run off the page or take up very little of it leaving HUGE amounts of unused screen real-estate.

The alternate method is to specify HOW text should flow and keep it from running off the sides of the screen. I was scolded for writing SANE web pages like this at a former workplace. In response, I did it anyway producing an application that formatted properly regardless of the size of the application.

Using absolute pixels in effect forces everyone to use "absolute" layout methodologies. Such a strategy is also appropriate in anticipation of screen with different aspect ratios where an application would either be chopped off or create a "whole" in the display. In such cases a app would need tools to describe "how" an application should stretch and shrink and also define absolute limits for minimum screen size.

Microsoft would do well to integrate such concepts into their graphics libraries. Doing so would ease developers efforts to deploy applications across .net devices of multiple form factors.

[Will T Smith]

with all this positive spin on microsoft, you almost destroy my perfect vision of the world where bill gates is the evil emperor and windows his deathstar, holding the world at ransom.

still, ms did bring us the ppc, and at long last xp. and tie fighters are really cool too :)

...and i used to be an amiga diehard...

I think that the Emperor realizes that his thrown will not last FOREVER. There is a clear trend towards marginalizing the OS bound to hardware. Instead the OS is becoming a commodity that provides services for managed code that runs across multiple hardware platforms.

Linux provides the prime example of the commodity OS. Linux has done an extraordinay job of providing a reasonable alternative to Microsoft as a hardware level OS. It's adoption in IT centers as web services has been remarkable. This was all done with largely volunteer efforts.

As you look into Europe you see efforts to place serious government subsidies into adopting, developing and supporting FREE software, especially OS and web services. If voluteerism could produce Linux and Gnome, just imagine what serious public subsidies could do to open OS and software development.

.Net is Microsofts bet on the next generation when they may not control the desktop. So far their doing it very well, much better than Java. It may be the key to providing services to customers on generic platforms.

[wiljs]

Any word if MS is going to offer improved support for MS office in future editions of their PPC oS? Why do users have to go to 3rd party developers to use powerpoint or access? and for Word and Excel, too for that matter (if you want to see what your document really looks like)?
Is MS serious about supporting this os? How about all the games that MS sells? Why aren't their PPC versions?

:)

[Jason Dunn]

I have mixed feelings about the "fragmentation" occurring in the Palm camp. On one hand that fragmentation translates into innovation. Just look at what Sony has done with its product line. It gives licensees the freedom and flexibility to try new form factors and offer new levels of functionality, and scale accordingly. In the PPC camp, the hardware platform is stringently fixed....which sometimes takes on the ripe oder of stagnancy. Or should I say..."pleasantly predictable"? :wink:

Your statement hold true for the resolution issue, but nothing else - is the lack of high-resolution really stopping an OEM from releasing a clamshell device with a keyboard? Nope. :lol: My comment about fragmentation was only referring to the screen resolution, nothing else. I too want to see hardware innovation!

[Jason Dunn]

Jason, I find it strange that Microsoft would place people who they are cultivating to promote Microsoft products under NDA in the first place. That defeats the purpose of what you are supposed to be doing. What good is an MVP program if you can't serve as a conduit for information from Microsoft to end users? Hmmm... I wonder if it would it help if your readers all signed an NDA? Maybe you could swear us all in as Junior MVPs? :)

Well, it's all about our role. If we only got information that we could talk about (ie: public info), we'd have no opportunity to see what's coming next and comment/critique it. If we only had public info, we'd be walking press release machines - not something I want to be. Microsoft trusts us enough to bring us in deep...very deep. They didn't just tell us about this next release, but the one after that - so we have an opportunity to see where they're going, what their thinking is, etc. Our chief role is the reverse of what you stated: we take information FROM the users and give it TO Microsoft. Microsoft is a huge organization, and their problem isn't in launching new products and buying newspaper ads - it's in listening to their users, figuring out what they want, and how they can improve their product.

You wouldn't believe some of the things we say to them 8O - "tough love" is a mantra at Microsoft, because they know it's a valid way to improve their products. Heck, I remember yelling "supremely arrogant" at one Microsoft guy on Friday... :lol: (I was talking about the product team in general, but I don't bite my tongue when communicating feedback to Microsoft). You wouldn't believe how hard we fight for you guys...

That said, how about some non-NDA questions about the present? For instance, WMP 8.5 has been in release as part of the ROM image of new hardware since last year, yet it is still not available at Microsoft or through the OEMs

I can only say "Ask HP" - they, uh, know where is it. :roll:

And more important, how is existing software going to run on the C1 release of Intel's PXA250 next month?

No clue - that was never even brought up. I assume that means we're all hoping there will be no issues. :lol: